Putin Declares War on the Ukraine

[MisterBeale]

Okay then, exceptional circumstances must be declared by the other 7 members of UNESCO to expel Russia. Would there be any way to get around this?

UNESCO isn't charged with peace and security, that isn't their jurisdiction.

But no, there is no way to get around a permanent members security council member's veto.

Security Council​

The Security Council is charged with maintaining peace and security among countries. While other organs of the UN can only make "recommendations" to member states, the Security Council has the power to make binding decisions that member states have agreed to carry out, under the terms of Charter Article 25.[102] The decisions of the council are known as United Nations Security Council resolutions.[103]

The Security Council is made up of fifteen member states, consisting of five permanent members—China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States—and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly: Estonia (term ends 2021), India (2022), Indonesia (2022), Mexico (2022), Niger (2021), Norway (2022), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (2021), Tunisia (2021), and Vietnam (2021).[104] The five permanent members hold veto power over UN resolutions, allowing a permanent member to block adoption of a resolution, though not debate. The ten temporary seats are held for two-year terms, with five member states per year voted in by the General Assembly on a regional basis.[105] The presidency of the Security Council rotates alphabetically each month.[106]

United Nations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

United Nations Security Council - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Veto power​

Main article: United Nations Security Council veto power

See also: List of vetoed United Nations Security Council resolutions

Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of three-fifths (i.e. nine) of the members. A negative vote or "veto" by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required votes.[64] Abstention is not regarded as a veto in most cases, though all five permanent members must actively concur to amend the UN Charter or to recommend the admission of a new UN member state.[55] Procedural matters are not subject to a veto, so the veto cannot be used to avoid discussion of an issue. The same holds for certain decisions that directly regard permanent members.[64] A majority of vetoes are used not in critical international security situations, but for purposes such as blocking a candidate for Secretary-General or the admission of a member state.[71]

 

[Silver Cat]

And what do they sing now?
"Odessa will welcome us, Kiev will welcome us, and if necessary - Warsaw will also welcome us".

 

[TemplarKormac]

Procedure aside, how would ejecting Russia serve any good? If they are not a member they are not bound by anything the UN would decide. It would make things worse.

Well, a founding member is invading a member nation. That should be all the reason needed, or else the UN Charter is just a collection of paper.

I would gather it would give the UN more freedom to act against Russia. Expel Russia, invoke 377 to circumvent a Chinese veto.

If Russia is not a member state anymore, the charter would neither apply to them, or to members of the UN in taking action against Russia.

Levity, maybe?

 

[TemplarKormac]

UNESCO isn't charged with peace and security, that isn't their jurisdiction.

But no, there is no way to get around a permanent members security council member's veto.

Security Council​

The Security Council is charged with maintaining peace and security among countries. While other organs of the UN can only make "recommendations" to member states, the Security Council has the power to make binding decisions that member states have agreed to carry out, under the terms of Charter Article 25.[102] The decisions of the council are known as United Nations Security Council resolutions.[103]

The Security Council is made up of fifteen member states, consisting of five permanent members—China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States—and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly: Estonia (term ends 2021), India (2022), Indonesia (2022), Mexico (2022), Niger (2021), Norway (2022), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (2021), Tunisia (2021), and Vietnam (2021).[104] The five permanent members hold veto power over UN resolutions, allowing a permanent member to block adoption of a resolution, though not debate. The ten temporary seats are held for two-year terms, with five member states per year voted in by the General Assembly on a regional basis.[105] The presidency of the Security Council rotates alphabetically each month.[106]

United Nations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

United Nations Security Council - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Veto power​

Main article: United Nations Security Council veto power

See also: List of vetoed United Nations Security Council resolutions

Under Article 27 of the UN Charter, Security Council decisions on all substantive matters require the affirmative votes of three-fifths (i.e. nine) of the members. A negative vote or "veto" by a permanent member prevents adoption of a proposal, even if it has received the required votes.[64] Abstention is not regarded as a veto in most cases, though all five permanent members must actively concur to amend the UN Charter or to recommend the admission of a new UN member state.[55] Procedural matters are not subject to a veto, so the veto cannot be used to avoid discussion of an issue. The same holds for certain decisions that directly regard permanent members.[64] A majority of vetoes are used not in critical international security situations, but for purposes such as blocking a candidate for Secretary-General or the admission of a member state.[71]

See resolution 377 for my rebuttal.

 

[MisterBeale]

Is it?

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 377 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

" It was adopted 3 November 1950, after fourteen days of Assembly discussions, by a vote of 52 to 5, with 2 abstentions.[2] The resolution was designed to provide the UN with an alternative avenue for action when at least one P5 member is using its veto to obstruct the Security Council from carrying out its functions mandated by the UN Charter."

Nice find!

. . . however, given the history of this particular conflict?

By the time the global diplomats actually fully investigate both sides of this conflict, and decide to judiciously act upon the merits of the case?

IMO? It will probably be over.

From the way you have been posting, you necessarily believe that the UN needs to intervene on Ukraine's side? Which, I am not necessarily disagreeing with. . .

. . . however, there also, if the international bureaucrats looked into this, might be A LOT of truth as to why the invasion occurred in the first place, and why the western and Ukrainian side refused to resolve those issues through diplomacy. . . so? I noticed of all of the twelve times it was invoked? Only once was it's use ever successful.

. . . and given Germany, France and China, all believe that Russia DID indeed have some legitimate grievances for invasion? I doubt that investigations into why diplomatic negotiations continued to not yield results would look very good upon either the United States or the puppet regime in Kiev.

 

[Rogue AI]

Well, a founding member is invading a member nation. That should be all the reason needed, or else the UN Charter is just a collection of paper.

I would gather it would give the UN more freedom to act against Russia. Expel Russia, invoke 377 to circumvent a Chinese veto.

If Russia is not a member state anymore, the charter would neither apply to them, or to members of the UN in taking action against Russia.

Levity, maybe?

Under what auspices would you use 377 to remove China's say? They aren't involved in this. What you suggest makes the whole purpose of the UN worthless.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Already are. I was 12 during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy caused that by showing weakness in the Bay of Pigs incident. Almost caused a Nuke War. Biden is FAR weaker than Kennedy.

Kennedy realized his mistake and grew a pair. Fuck Biden can't be bothered to get out of bed.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Under what auspices would you use 377 to remove China's say? They aren't involved in this. What you suggest makes the whole purpose of the UN worthless.

Their veto would be easily seen as an attempt to deadlock the council. Everyone else in the council would know that China is Russia's ally and the reason for the veto.

Essentially why this resolution was adopted.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nice find!

. . . however, given the history of this particular conflict?

By the time the global diplomats actually fully investigate both sides of this conflict, and decide to judiciously act upon the merits of the case?

IMO? It will probably be over.

From the way you have been posting, you necessarily believe that the UN needs to intervene on Ukraine's side? Which, I am not necessarily disagreeing with. . .

. . . however, there also, if the international bureaucrats looked into this, might be A LOT of truth as to why the invasion occurred in the first place, and why the western and Ukrainian side refused to resolve those issues through diplomacy. . . so? I noticed of all of the twelve times it was invoked? Only once was it's use ever successful.

. . . and given Germany, France and China, all believe that Russia DID indeed have some legitimate grievances for invasion? I doubt that investigations into why diplomatic negotiations continued to not yield results would look very good upon either the United States or the puppet regime in Kiev.

I simply believe rules are absolute until they're not. If the UN isn't prepared to take punitive measures against Russia, simply for the sole act of invading another member, using any method and procedure available to them (the UN), then by that token, the UN is a defunct alliance.

 

[San Souci]

Under what auspices would you use 377 to remove China's say? They aren't involved in this. What you suggest makes the whole purpose of the UN worthless.

The UN is worthless. Always has been.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Add Belarus to the list.

 

[Rogue AI]

Their veto would be easily seen as an attempt to deadlock the council. Everyone else in the council would know that China is Russia's ally and the reason for the veto.

Essentially why this resolution was adopted.

Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid. Without a formal alliance the mere suggestion undermines the whole purpose of diplomacy. Your suggestion echos of woke lunacy, cancel everyone who doesn't agree. No thanks.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Kiev under attack. China watching this and ready to take Taiwan. Russia/China alliance in full force. The Western Alliance better wake up.

Meh...this marks the beginning of the end of the West.

But remember....the true "War Dogs" are in control. They are chomping at the bit to engage the MIC and rake in the billions (again).
What's holding them back this time is the EuroTrash influence such as Soros etc....temporarily.

Soon, the Wealthy Eurotrash that is controlling the WH, US media, Justice System and Schools etc will realize that sacrificing the USA is a great way to kill two birds with one stone so I could see the Eurotrash Elites sacrificing the USA by ordering Biden to engage Russia and have it to do Europes dirty work once again.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid. Without a formal alliance the mere suggestion undermines the whole purpose of diplomacy. Your suggestion echos of woke lunacy, cancel everyone who doesn't agree. No thanks.

Woke lunacy? I am merely suggesting everything short of an actual invasion by the west, which none of us want.

You have any better ideas?

Russia has brushed off current and future sanctions, and it is intent on continuing its behavior in Ukraine for the foreseeable future. Every method should be available, and not because someone is afraid to step on some toes.

You don't want war, I am presenting valid suggestions that don't involve our troops being put on the ground.

Oh, and lethal aid is useless to the Ukrainians if they have already been defeated by Russia. Then, Russia will simply seize the aid we sent and use it against any Ukrainians attempting to fight back against the occupation.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid.

When everyone knows the purpose of the veto, then it isn't. It allows the council to act without any impediments for the safety and security of the rest of its members.

 

[TemplarKormac]

MisterBeale

I don't see what you think is so funny. Perhaps you would like to let me in on the joke?

 

[Doc7505]

Putin declares war as explosions rock Ukraine capital of Kyiv​

Putin declares war on Ukraine as deadly missile strikes plunge country into bloodshed

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared war on Wednesday night, ending weeks of diplomatic stalemate and plunging Eastern Europe into a nightmare of violence and bloodshed not seen since the…

nypost.com

23 Fen 2022 ~~ By Callie Patteson, Samuel Chamberlain, Mark Lungariello and Mark Moore

Russian President Vladimir Putin declared war on Wednesday night, ending weeks of diplomatic stalemate and plunging Eastern Europe into a nightmare of violence and bloodshed not seen since the darkest days of World War II.
The Russian leader claimed Russia was undertaking a “special military operation” to demilitarize and “denazify” the country under the guise Russia was defending itself.
Putin announced the operation in a live televised speech that aired before 6 a.m. local time, threatening countries that attempt to interfere with “consequences they have never seen.
Immediately following the speech, explosions were reported in the capital city Kyiv, Kramatorsk, Kharkiv, Odessa and Mariupol. It wasn’t immediately clear what the targets were.
Ukrainian airspace was closed to civilian aircraft as the region was considered an active conflict zone. The European Union Aviation Safety Agency issued an alert saying there is a risk of “both intentional targeting and misidentification” of civilian aircraft.

​

Commentary:
As daybreak begins Russian forces tanks and APC's moving toward Kiev.
The people of the Ukraine are out manned and out gunned by Russia. Pray for the people.
Meanwhile Putin infers that if the U.S. intervenes, he will use dire means to stop it.
Meanwhile Joey B says he'll invoke sanctions.
Can we expect Xi Jinping to "Annex" Tiawan in a few mnths.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Eliminating China's veto because they might not agree with us is childish and stupid. Without a formal alliance the mere suggestion undermines the whole purpose of diplomacy. Your suggestion echos of woke lunacy, cancel everyone who doesn't agree. No thanks.

Yet that is precisely the tactic of the radical Left and guess what....they are winning.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Welp....Democrats and Biden supporters have managed to set the world at war once again.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Woke lunacy? I am merely suggesting everything short of an actual invasion by the west, which none of us want.

You have any better ideas?

Russia has brushed off current and future sanctions, and it is intent on continuing its behavior in Ukraine for the foreseeable future. Every method should be available, and not because someone is afraid to step on some toes.

You don't want war, I am presenting valid suggestions that don't involve our troops being put on the ground.

Oh, and lethal aid is useless to the Ukrainians if they have already been defeated by Russia. Then, Russia will simply seize the aid we sent and use it against any Ukrainians attempting to fight back against the occupation.

EDITED.