Rabbis forced the Romans to crucify Jesus

[irosie91]

Well yes, typically the one against God is evil. The Adversary.

OH!!! "...the ONE AGAINST "god" "

 

[Lisa558]

Well yes, typically the one against God is evil. The Adversary.

Jews are not against Gd, nor are they evil.

And you keep saying you’re not antisemitic.

 

[Meriweather]

So “ Christians “ don’t believe that G-D sent his only son down to die for our sins?

Some sects put it that way--a bad Cliff Notes version.

Catholics, for example, see Jesus' mission as one of reconciliation and redemption between God and His people. Jesus proclaimed, "Sins are forgiven; repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Nowhere did he say, "Sins will be forgiven after I die." He said over and over, "Your sins are forgiven."

Some religious leaders of the day objected, saying Jesus had no authority to tell a person their sins are forgiven. Jesus said the authority came from God. The religious leaders response was, Prove it (Give us a sign). Jesus' response was the only sign they would get is the sign of Jonah. And he refused to stop telling the people, Sins are forgiven.

Other than the David Covenant, all other Covenants involved a blood offering. During that fateful Passover, it appears that some with religious authority were able to convince Roman authorities they had the wrong man (Jesus Barabbas) and the guilty man was really Jesus of Nazareth. Barabbas was released and Jesus was crucified.

Jesus rose from the dead, the religious leaders had before them a blood offering, and Jesus' message, "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins; sins are forgiven" was verified with a sign that Sins are forgiven. A New Covenant/Testament.

Many Christian sects retain as the Covenant, Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. We practice repentance and thus our reconciliation and redemption. Jesus being punished for our sins, doesn't really enter into it, other than the fact, Jesus endured ferocious punishment when he chose God's will over the will of some Temple leaders. He shed blood over his message of, "Sins are forgiven."

A few other Christian sects maintain that claiming Jesus as savior means Jesus was punished for their sins--all sins past and present--and nothing more is required for a heavenly afterlife, Jesus took care of it all. This is one of the main reasons why Catholics are attacked. We don't go along with the Cliff Notes version.

 

[Lisa558]

Some sects put it that way--a bad Cliff Notes version.

Catholics, for example, see Jesus' mission as one of reconciliation and redemption between God and His people. Jesus proclaimed, "Sins are forgiven; repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Nowhere did he say, "Sins will be forgiven after I die." He said over and over, "Your sins are forgiven."

Some religious leaders of the day objected, saying Jesus had no authority to tell a person their sins are forgiven. Jesus said the authority came from God. The religious leaders response was, Prove it (Give us a sign). Jesus' response was the only sign they would get is the sign of Jonah. And he refused to stop telling the people, Sins are forgiven.

Other than the David Covenant, all other Covenants involved a blood offering. During that fateful Passover, it appears that some with religious authority were able to convince Roman authorities they had the wrong man (Jesus Barabbas) and the guilty man was really Jesus of Nazareth. Barabbas was released and Jesus was crucified.

Jesus rose from the dead, the religious leaders had before them a blood offering, and Jesus' message, "Repentance for the forgiveness of sins; sins are forgiven" was verified with a sign that Sins are forgiven. A New Covenant/Testament.

Many Christian sects retain as the Covenant, Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. We practice repentance and thus our reconciliation and redemption. Jesus being punished for our sins, doesn't really enter into it, other than the fact, Jesus endured ferocious punishment when he chose God's will over the will of some Temple leaders. He shed blood over his message of, "Sins are forgiven."

A few other Christian sects maintain that claiming Jesus as savior means Jesus was punished for their sins--all sins past and present--and nothing more is required for a heavenly afterlife, Jesus took care of it all. This is one of the main reasons why Catholics are attacked. We don't go along with the Cliff Notes version.

So sins are forgiven no matter what? Hitler’s sins? Mussolini’s sins? Bin Laden’s sins? Ted Bundy’s sins?

Some sins are unforgivable and the ones who commit them will never see Heaven.

 

[Meriweather]

So sins are forgiven no matter what? Hitler’s sins? Mussolini’s sins? Bin Laden’s sins? Ted Bundy’s sins?

Some sins are unforgivable and the ones who commit them will never see Heaven.

I understand the definition of 'sin' is missing the mark, or the ideal. To err.

Jesus did not say, "Evil is forgiven."

The word for 'sin' is different from the word for 'evil' whether we look at the Hebrew, the Aramaic, the Latin, or the Greek language. There is a big difference between an error and an evil. Jesus noted the former are forgiven. He noted the latter deserved death.

 

[Lisa558]

I understand the definition of 'sin' is missing the mark, or the ideal. To err.

Jesus did not say, "Evil is forgiven."

The word for 'sin' is different from the word for 'evil' whether we look at the Hebrew, the Aramaic, the Latin, or the Greek language. There is a big difference between an error and an evil. Jesus noted the former are forgiven. He noted the latter deserved death.

I am glad to hear you say that, and I hope others make the same distinction.

But many do not. I had an Evangelical say to me, in the lunchroom at work where she was hoping to show off how offensive she could be to a Jew, that Hitler could be in Heaven right now (I choke even typing those words) as long as he accepted Jesus.

 

[USAF 2023]

Jews are not against Gd, nor are they evil.

And you keep saying you’re not antisemitic.

This just displays his STUPIDITY. They believe in G-D’s “ son”. We believe in G-D.So what’s the problem?

 

[Lisa558]

This just displays his STUPIDITY. They believe in G-D’s “ son”. We believe in G-D.So what’s the problem?

He’s sending mixed messages all over the place. He says that people who don’t believe in Gd are evil, and then lumps Jews into that category because they don’t believe in Jesus. He’s a bigot and stupid, both.

 

[USAF 2023]

I am glad to hear you say that, and I hope others make the same distinction.

But many do not. I had an Evangelical say to me, in the lunchroom at work where she was hoping to show off how offensive she could be to a Jew, that Hitler could be in Heaven right now (I choke even typing those words) as long as he accepted Jesus.

Realize I’m being flip but if someone said that to me I would say that’s ONE more reason why I DON’T ACCEPT or believe in him, Your religion accepts evil

 

[Meriweather]

But many do not. I had an Evangelical say to me, in the lunchroom at work where she was hoping to show off how offensive she could be to a Jew, that Hitler could be in Heaven right now (I choke even typing those words) as long as he accepted Jesus.

She evidently forgot the teaching where Jesus said, "Depart from me you evil doers. I never knew you."

Hitler was baptized and raised a Catholic. He left the faith. There is no evidence of repentance. Catholic teaching is that he is in mortal danger of hell. The Catholic Church stops short of saying who--if anyone--is in hell, in respect of the teaching only God can judge the human heart.

Another line you could use with Evangelicals is, "Since Hitler was Catholic, surely Evangelicals believe he is in hell."

 

[irosie91]

"interesting" jelly bean school lesson (not) ---sorta based
on the USUAL anonymous ""reliable"" sources SURELY you can
name a few of those "RELIGIOUS LEADERS" who demanded
"A SIGN"----those guys were not anonymous. PS ---I read the "DIVINE COMEDY"---it does detail just who is IN HELL. "the sign
of jonah" -----A SQUASH? (or pumpkin?). Wasn't it the vicious
crowd of JOOOOS who came to enjoy the crucifixion spectacle,
(kinda like they were vestal virgins) who INSISTED on Barabbas ---
being the virulent jooos they were (I went to jelly bean school
too)

 

[Meriweather]

I went to jelly bean school
too

You are the only one then. I am sorry, irosie, your babbling no longer makes sense to me, and I haven't the time to try and decipher it. If you have a serious question, I will do my best to answer.

 

[irosie91]

You are the only one then. I am sorry, irosie, your babbling no longer makes sense to me, and I haven't the time to try and decipher it. If you have a serious question, I will do my best to answer.

I asked a serious question---you stated that the RELIGIOUS
LEADERS in Jerusalem convinced---"SOMEONE" that Jesus
should be killed (instead of the other guy, the REALLY GUILTY----
Barabass) Can you name ANY of those prominent jewish
religious leaders?

 

[irosie91]

you confuse yourself as the desert religions ... tolerance for the crucifiers, would that even make sense.

who are the "crucifiers"?

 

[irosie91]

I understand the definition of 'sin' is missing the mark, or the ideal. To err.

Jesus did not say, "Evil is forgiven."

The word for 'sin' is different from the word for 'evil' whether we look at the Hebrew, the Aramaic, the Latin, or the Greek language. There is a big difference between an error and an evil. Jesus noted the former are forgiven. He noted the latter deserved death.

ok---Jesus and scores and HUNDREDS of other jewish preachers ALSO SAID THAT. PRAYER, CHARITY, and REPENTENCE----
you can find that ^^^^ written on walls and in books
in synagogues----and songs and poems---many recorded BEFORE
Jesus was born-----no mention of Jesus or that "some" religious
leaders hated him--------well----not really---I found ONE who did
write something against Jesus----a few hundred years AFTER Jesus
died---His name --believe it or not----was Rabbi Ishmael (but that was before the rapist of arabia decided to be related to Ishmael
the son of Abraham)-----and of all lands ---AFGHANISTAN!!! I do
tend to read obscure stuff---sayings on walls, on fly leafs, in obscure songs and DUSTY BOOKS on the lower levels of the book shelves

 

[Meriweather]

Can you name ANY of those prominent jewish
religious leaders?

All names are not listed in the New Testament. Annas and Caiaphas seemed to have a voice among those who were in conflict with Jesus and/or his message, so that is one hypothesis. They had Jesus brought before them.

Outside the New Testament, no one has been able to confirm that every Passover, the Romans released a criminal back to the Jews.

The ones we know who had no conflict with Jesus would have been Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, Gamaliel.

Is there a problem?

 

[Meriweather]

ok---Jesus and scores and HUNDREDS of other jewish preachers ALSO SAID THAT. PRAYER, CHARITY, and REPENTENCE----

Isn't that a good thing?

 

[irosie91]

All names are not listed in the New Testament. Annas and Caiaphas seemed to have a voice among those who were in conflict with Jesus and/or his message, so that is one hypothesis. They had Jesus brought before them.

Outside the New Testament, no one has been able to confirm that every Passover, the Romans released a criminal back to the Jews.

The ones we know who had no conflict with Jesus would have been Nicodemus, Joseph of Arimathea, Gamaliel.

Is there a problem?

did the catechism lady tell you that both Annas and Caiaphas
were SADDUCEANS--appointed as "high priest" by the Romans----and SHILLS FOR ROME and UNIVERSALLY
DESPISED BY PHARISEES?. Gamaliel actually said----more like
"leave it alone----it won't last" He was a no conflict guy----something like Josephus Flavius and Shimon Peres

 

[irosie91]

Isn't that a good thing?

yes----it is a typical Jewish teaching for centuries even
before Jesus was born----it get poetic in Hebrew--the poems
go on ADINFINITUM from august thru september (approx.)

 

[Meriweather]

did the catechism lady tell you that both Annas and Caiaphas
were SADDUCEANS--appointed as "high priest" by the Romans----and SHILLS FOR ROME and UNIVERSALLY

Learned that in parochial school from both priests and nuns. We got into the political aspects during a Bible study I did as an adult. Why?