Roosevelt: Cold Water Splashed In His Face!

[PoliticalChic]

I'm sorry, the party you have addressed has left the building, lies of omission, commission as well as half-truths and foolish efforts to rewrite history creates allergic globulars of bullshit in electronic forms on threads and comments associated with you and other nitwits.

Please try your party again, once you have been inoculated with ions of electricity to both sides of your head, effectively slowly the propagation of these globulars so as to not infect the biddable, as are those who bought the bullshit that the depression began Once Black Tuesday, October 29, 1929.

FDR has no playbook, no guidelines when he took office, on Black Tuesday the sky filled with brokers and investors who left tall building without the use of elevators or staircases and even efforts by President Hoover to fix what happened and what happened in the months and years following the crash did not prevent the apocalypse.

So, we call you out to disprove what we said, or tell us what we're wrong about... and you do the equivalent of putting your hands on your ears and shouting "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". Are you here to debate or not?

How can you debate folks who claim the Great Depression did not begin in 1929 or blame FDR for events that occurred after his death? PoliticalChic goes beyond conspiracy theories and revisionism. She is in the world of ridiculousness and delusion. When poorly informed people attempt to support her dopey theories it just becomes a waste of time refuting the nonsense over and over.

She is obsessed with attacking FDR.

She just can't stand that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

We literally just explained how his policies created and extended the Great Depression. You're just repeating your Liberal propaganda, and not backing up your claim.

Explain to me how compulsory unionism, forced higher wages, locking good and service prices high, tripling taxes, and a massive wave of business lawsuits helps the economy. If you're not going to prove the policies actually SOMEHOW helped, then you should stop making the absurd claim that he actually lead us out of the Great Depression.

You believe that Franklin D. Roosevelt- who came into office on March 4, 1933- 'created' the Great Depression? The Great Depression that started in 1929?

Do you think that FDR had a time machine? That would be almost as delusional.

So sad that you are pissed off that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

He sure did. He took a recession and magnified it into the 'Great Depression.'

To cure it all he had to do was keep his promises that he pledged when running.

Ask someone smarter than you why he did that to America.


Facts:

1929....noted as the start of the Great Depression.
But....it wasn't.

"Unemployment in 1930 averaged a mildly recessionary 8.9 percent, up from 3.2 percent in 1929. It shot up rapidly until peaking out at more than 25 percent in 1933.... . If this crash had been like previous ones, the hard times would have ended in two or three years at the most, and likely sooner than that. But unprecedented political bungling instead prolonged the misery for over 10 years." Great Myths of the Great Depression | Lawrence W. Reed

FDR ran on a platform of balancing the budget, and cutting spending.
Really. He promised.


Of the 40-50 economic downturns.....none lasted even five years....until Roosevelt made one last a decade.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So, we call you out to disprove what we said, or tell us what we're wrong about... and you do the equivalent of putting your hands on your ears and shouting "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". Are you here to debate or not?

How can you debate folks who claim the Great Depression did not begin in 1929 or blame FDR for events that occurred after his death? PoliticalChic goes beyond conspiracy theories and revisionism. She is in the world of ridiculousness and delusion. When poorly informed people attempt to support her dopey theories it just becomes a waste of time refuting the nonsense over and over.

She is obsessed with attacking FDR.

She just can't stand that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

We literally just explained how his policies created and extended the Great Depression. You're just repeating your Liberal propaganda, and not backing up your claim.

Explain to me how compulsory unionism, forced higher wages, locking good and service prices high, tripling taxes, and a massive wave of business lawsuits helps the economy. If you're not going to prove the policies actually SOMEHOW helped, then you should stop making the absurd claim that he actually lead us out of the Great Depression.

You believe that Franklin D. Roosevelt- who came into office on March 4, 1933- 'created' the Great Depression? The Great Depression that started in 1929?

Do you think that FDR had a time machine? That would be almost as delusional.

So sad that you are pissed off that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

The question I have, Do those people who believe FDR was responsible for the Great Depression really believe what they post? Are they all challenged by reality, i.e. psychotic? Or are they professional liars, paid by a secret cabal in the mold of the Ministry of Truth ("1984")?

I've asked you to show any of the facts that I've provided aren't true....

...and all you can do is you specialty: hot air.


Bet everyone who knows you recognizes that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How can you debate folks who claim the Great Depression did not begin in 1929 or blame FDR for events that occurred after his death? PoliticalChic goes beyond conspiracy theories and revisionism. She is in the world of ridiculousness and delusion. When poorly informed people attempt to support her dopey theories it just becomes a waste of time refuting the nonsense over and over.

She is obsessed with attacking FDR.

She just can't stand that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

We literally just explained how his policies created and extended the Great Depression. You're just repeating your Liberal propaganda, and not backing up your claim.

Explain to me how compulsory unionism, forced higher wages, locking good and service prices high, tripling taxes, and a massive wave of business lawsuits helps the economy. If you're not going to prove the policies actually SOMEHOW helped, then you should stop making the absurd claim that he actually lead us out of the Great Depression.

You believe that Franklin D. Roosevelt- who came into office on March 4, 1933- 'created' the Great Depression? The Great Depression that started in 1929?

Do you think that FDR had a time machine? That would be almost as delusional.

So sad that you are pissed off that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

The question I have, Do those people who believe FDR was responsible for the Great Depression really believe what they post? Are they all challenged by reality, i.e. psychotic? Or are they professional liars, paid by a secret cabal in the mold of the Ministry of Truth ("1984")?

I think that they are rabid idealogues who despise that a liberal like FDR was not only as successful as he was, but was as popular as we was.

Still can't find any errors?

Excellent.


You serve as proof that I am never wrong.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How can you debate folks who claim the Great Depression did not begin in 1929 or blame FDR for events that occurred after his death? PoliticalChic goes beyond conspiracy theories and revisionism. She is in the world of ridiculousness and delusion. When poorly informed people attempt to support her dopey theories it just becomes a waste of time refuting the nonsense over and over.

She is obsessed with attacking FDR.

She just can't stand that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

We literally just explained how his policies created and extended the Great Depression. You're just repeating your Liberal propaganda, and not backing up your claim.

Explain to me how compulsory unionism, forced higher wages, locking good and service prices high, tripling taxes, and a massive wave of business lawsuits helps the economy. If you're not going to prove the policies actually SOMEHOW helped, then you should stop making the absurd claim that he actually lead us out of the Great Depression.

You believe that Franklin D. Roosevelt- who came into office on March 4, 1933- 'created' the Great Depression? The Great Depression that started in 1929?

Do you think that FDR had a time machine? That would be almost as delusional.

So sad that you are pissed off that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

The question I have, Do those people who believe FDR was responsible for the Great Depression really believe what they post? Are they all challenged by reality, i.e. psychotic? Or are they professional liars, paid by a secret cabal in the mold of the Ministry of Truth ("1984")?

I think that they are rabid idealogues who despise that a liberal like FDR was not only as successful as he was, but was as popular as we was.

"....a liberal like FDR ..."

Absolutely true!

And, the hallmark of Liberals.....he hated the Constitution.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So FDR created the Great Depression and Hoover pulled the country out of it; why can't America's historians understand that simple conservative fact?

"So FDR created the Great Depression and Hoover pulled the country out of it;...'


The fact than no one on this side made any such claim reveals both that you are a lying low-life, and that you are lacking in any way, facts or truth to deny what we have actually said.


....there is actually a necessity for lying.....if one is a Liberal.
Without lying, a Liberal would be forced to simply admit at their views might be wrong, or dangerous to those who fall under its control, or that winning is all that matters, no matter the results of winning.

Or, that Franklin Roosevelt was a great President.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So FDR created the Great Depression and Hoover pulled the country out of it; why can't America's historians understand that simple conservative fact?

Actually, the war pulled us out. There was a massive surge in jobs producing weapons and machine components during the war.

Just more evidence FDR did not spend enough on the New Deal and other programs. It was pure Keynes, and apparently that's all we use now.

That must explain the necessity of Obama chalking up $19 trillion in debt, too, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

So FDR created the Great Depression and Hoover pulled the country out of it; why can't America's historians understand that simple conservative fact?

Actually, the war pulled us out. There was a massive surge in jobs producing weapons and machine components during the war.

Just more evidence FDR did not spend enough on the New Deal and other programs. It was pure Keynes, and apparently that's all we use now.

A president cannot spend their way out of a Depression, only the Private Sector can fix the economy. All a president can do is remove regulations or watch. We wouldn't have even had a Depression, let alone one that lasted so long if FDR hadn't regulated businesses into oblivion. Compulsory Unionism, tripled taxes, prices locked high, waves and waves of lawsuits, locked high wages, and even more regulations I haven't mentioned, prevented the economy from recovering. FDR provided jobs, sure, but government jobs aren't self sustaining, they come from tax dollars, and they don't expand to keep of with demand. FDR damaged the economy even further, then prevented recovery with his policies, while spending far more than he needed. If he had done nothing, the recession wouldn't have become a depression, and it would have lasted 2-4 years.

So how do you explain the steady growth of industry and reduced unemployment from 1933 to 1939 before the economy surged with war production? And all this was done in spite of the chain of natural disasters known as the Dust Bowl Storms that wreaked havoc during that period of years.

So.....you're giving up trying to deny this:

1929....noted as the start of the Great Depression.
But....it wasn't.

"Unemployment in 1930 averaged a mildly recessionary 8.9 percent, up from 3.2 percent in 1929. It shot up rapidly until peaking out at more than 25 percent in 1933.... . If this crash had been like previous ones, the hard times would have ended in two or three years at the most, and likely sooner than that. But unprecedented political bungling instead prolonged the misery for over 10 years." Great Myths of the Great Depression | Lawrence W. Reed

FDR ran on a platform of balancing the budget, and cutting spending.
Really. He promised.


Of the 40-50 economic downturns.....none lasted even five years....until Roosevelt made one last a decade.



That means I win again, huh?

 

[Flanders]

To PoliticalChic: Great Thread. I want to add a few thoughts.

The year 1938 was the worst year of the Great Depressions. That was six years after FDR was in office. Were it not for gearing up for WW II there is no telling how long the GD would have lasted.

It is difficult to talk about FDR without examining how he manipulated WW II in order to save Soviet Communism. Note that pertinent facts are spliced into my analysis of the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory.

The following is my interpretation and nothing more.

The Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory must be examined with the politics and events that led to America’s entry into the war in Europe. Once again, my comments are my interpretation of a theory.

1. The American public wanted no part of the war in Europe. FDR, spurred on by Churchill, was determined to get the U.S. into that war which began in 1939. Churchill’s agenda was to keep Germany from becoming a world power; thereby, threatening the British Empire and its interests. The Empire was already in serious trouble at the time; especially in India where the Raj was under attack by independence-minded Indians like Gandhi (1869 - 1948). There was also a strong faction inside India who wanted to enter the war on Germany’s side.

2. Japan was Germany’s ally. The biggest single mistake Hitler made was in declaring war on the United States not long after Pearl Harbor. I believe that both Germany and Japan were operating under the delusion that the U.S. could not fight a two ocean war.

3. Japan attacked the United States, yet 90% of this country’s war effort was directed towards the European War and saving Communism in the Soviet Union. Suspicious at the very least. One would think that FDR would have wanted to squash Japan out of existence as quickly as possible by putting all available resources into the Pacific War. Instead, he chose to concentrate on Europe. The Pacific War dragged on for four years as a result when it could have been brought to successful conclusion in one year.

4. Had Hitler not declared war on the U.S., FDR would have been forced to concentrate the war effort on Japan. Hitler’s miscalculation was compounded here. After Japan had been beaten, the American public would still have been against helping Communism survive in the Soviet Union.

Americans could see no good reason for entering the war in Europe. Polls taken in the pre-WWII era showed that 80 percent of the American people wanted no part of a European war. As late as June 23, 1941, then-Senator Truman remarked:

If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible. Harry Truman​

Senator Harry S. Truman was a vehement opponent of America getting involved in a second European War. The man who would later become president understood the American people because he was one of them. To hear today’s liberals talk about WWII, young Americans have been conned into believing that Americans could not wait to go to war in Europe.

NOTE: Fascism and Communism are equally abhorrent political systems to most Americans. Before the world learned of the Holocaust, it would not have mattered one iota which side won in Europe. Had the Holocaust never happened it would be easier today to show Fascism and Communism as both sides of the same coin. Because the Holocaust did happen, Fascism is the more evil of the two, but not by much. American Socialists/Communists claim sainthood under false pretenses to this day because of the Holocaust.

5. The British had broken the Japanese Naval Code before Dec. 1941. FDR’s defenders claim that he was not told that the Japanese Naval Code had been broken prior to Dec. 7, 1941. For anyone to believe that FDR did not know the attack was imminent ignores the kind of president FDR was. Nothing went on in his Administrations that he didn’t know about. That man was the most manipulative, devious, president who ever lived in the White House. Can anyone realistically believe that breaking the Japanese Naval Code was kept from him? Defending such a position boggles the mind considering the political environment of the time.

6. There were no aircraft carriers in Pearl Harbor on the day of the attack. The warships that were there were obsolete for the most part. FDR did not want to give the Japanese Navy that big of an edge by putting this country’s aircraft carriers in harm’s way.

7. The Japanese ambassador to Washington was kept waiting until after the attack began. Hence, Dec. 7 became a day of infamy rather than a declaration of war before the attack started.

The one component of the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory that is never, or seldom, speculated about is the suicide of James V. Forrestal.

Forrestal’s brief biography, taken from an encyclopedia, is interesting in relation to the attack on Pearl Harbor:

“Forrestal, James Vincent (1892-1949), American banker and government official, born in Beacon, New York, and educated at Dartmouth College and Princeton University. In 1916 he joined the New York City investment firm of Dillon, Reed, and Company. He became president of the firm in 1938. Two years later Forrestal was appointed undersecretary of the navy and served in that post until 1944, when he became secretary of the navy. He was one of the chief planners of the unification of the three armed services in a single executive department of the federal government. In 1947, when unification was effected by congressional enactment, Forrestal became the first secretary of defense of the U.S. He resigned the post because of ill health early in 1949.”​

The next quote was taken from a chronology of events in 1949 and is not connected to Forrestal’s biography.

“The U.S. Defense Department is created August 10 by a retitling of the War Department under terms of the National Security Act of 1947. The first secretary of defense James V. Forrestal resigned in March with symptoms of nervous exhaustion and depression, entered Bethesda Naval Hospital, and jumped from a window there May 22, dying at age 57.”​

Note that Forrestal’s promotion to secretary of the navy in 1944 shows that he was one of FDR’s fair-haired boys. FDR did not move anyone up the ladder he did not trust completely. If there is any truth to the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory, Forrestal, as under secretary of the navy at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, must have known about it even if he disagreed with FDR’s ultimate decision. If he didn’t know about it in 1941, he may have acquired top secret information after he became secretary of the navy in ‘44, or after he became secretary of defense in 1947, that allowed him to put it all together.

Here are two purely speculative questions, if ever answered, would either prove that FDR knew, or the answers could clear up the Forrestal suicide in relation to Pearl Harbor.

1. In light of his loyalty to FDR, and subsequently FDR’s Pearl Harbor decision, was Forrestal’s depression brought on when he finally came to understand where FDR’s Socialists/Communists intended to take the country? (The U.N. was a fact of life in 1949.)

2. Was Forrestal a man of such conscience he had to commit suicide because he could no longer live with the secret of Pearl Harbor?

Nor could Forrestal blow the whistle and harm the country. An internal conflict of that magnitude would break the strongest man of conscience.

One other possibility is that New Deal Socialists/Communists murdered Forrestal because he was on the verge of telling all. Anything that would destroy FDR’s ongoing deification process would also tarnish Eleanor Roosevelt, and from there question the then-infant United Nations. Socialists would not let that happen then or now.

The Wall Nobody Talks About​

 

[PoliticalChic]

How can you debate folks who claim the Great Depression did not begin in 1929 or blame FDR for events that occurred after his death? PoliticalChic goes beyond conspiracy theories and revisionism. She is in the world of ridiculousness and delusion. When poorly informed people attempt to support her dopey theories it just becomes a waste of time refuting the nonsense over and over.

She is obsessed with attacking FDR.

She just can't stand that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

We literally just explained how his policies created and extended the Great Depression. You're just repeating your Liberal propaganda, and not backing up your claim.

Explain to me how compulsory unionism, forced higher wages, locking good and service prices high, tripling taxes, and a massive wave of business lawsuits helps the economy. If you're not going to prove the policies actually SOMEHOW helped, then you should stop making the absurd claim that he actually lead us out of the Great Depression.

You believe that Franklin D. Roosevelt- who came into office on March 4, 1933- 'created' the Great Depression? The Great Depression that started in 1929?

Do you think that FDR had a time machine? That would be almost as delusional.

So sad that you are pissed off that FDR led America to victory in World War 2, and out of the Depression and was responsible for Americans having Social Security, the GI Bill and Bank Depositors insurance.

I said that he turned the recession into a depression, then extended it. I know that to make me look wrong, you have to misquote me, but at least try a bit harder.

Let me quote you:

We literally just explained how his policies created and extended the Great Depression.

You claimed President Roosevelt created the Great Depression- which began 4 years before he became president.

Which is why I am laughing at you.

No one said that, but you.
And you're a known liar.


Find someone with better comprehension than you have.....any third grader will do....


1929....noted as the start of the Great Depression.
But....it wasn't.

"Unemployment in 1930 averaged a mildly recessionary 8.9 percent, up from 3.2 percent in 1929. It shot up rapidly until peaking out at more than 25 percent in 1933.... . If this crash had been like previous ones, the hard times would have ended in two or three years at the most, and likely sooner than that. But unprecedented political bungling instead prolonged the misery for over 10 years." Great Myths of the Great Depression | Lawrence W. Reed


FDR ran on a platform of balancing the budget, and cutting spending.
Really. He promised.
See if you can figure out why he wanted the crisis to continue.


Of the 40-50 economic downturns.....none lasted even five years....until Roosevelt made one last a decade.

 

[PoliticalChic]

To PoliticalChic: Great Thread. I want to add a few thoughts.

The year 1938 was the worst year of the Great Depressions. That was six years after FDR was in office. Were it not for gearing up for WW II there is no telling how long the GD would have lasted.

It is difficult to talk about FDR without examining how he manipulated WW II in order to save Soviet Communism. Note that pertinent facts are spliced into my analysis of the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory.

The following is my interpretation and nothing more.

The Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory must be examined with the politics and events that led to America’s entry into the war in Europe. Once again, my comments are my interpretation of a theory.

1. The American public wanted no part of the war in Europe. FDR, spurred on by Churchill, was determined to get the U.S. into that war which began in 1939. Churchill’s agenda was to keep Germany from becoming a world power; thereby, threatening the British Empire and its interests. The Empire was already in serious trouble at the time; especially in India where the Raj was under attack by independence-minded Indians like Gandhi (1869 - 1948). There was also a strong faction inside India who wanted to enter the war on Germany’s side.

2. Japan was Germany’s ally. The biggest single mistake Hitler made was in declaring war on the United States not long after Pearl Harbor. I believe that both Germany and Japan were operating under the delusion that the U.S. could not fight a two ocean war.

3. Japan attacked the United States, yet 90% of this country’s war effort was directed towards the European War and saving Communism in the Soviet Union. Suspicious at the very least. One would think that FDR would have wanted to squash Japan out of existence as quickly as possible by putting all available resources into the Pacific War. Instead, he chose to concentrate on Europe. The Pacific War dragged on for four years as a result when it could have been brought to successful conclusion in one year.

4. Had Hitler not declared war on the U.S., FDR would have been forced to concentrate the war effort on Japan. Hitler’s miscalculation was compounded here. After Japan had been beaten, the American public would still have been against helping Communism survive in the Soviet Union.

Americans could see no good reason for entering the war in Europe. Polls taken in the pre-WWII era showed that 80 percent of the American people wanted no part of a European war. As late as June 23, 1941, then-Senator Truman remarked:

If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible. Harry Truman​

Senator Harry S. Truman was a vehement opponent of America getting involved in a second European War. The man who would later become president understood the American people because he was one of them. To hear today’s liberals talk about WWII, young Americans have been conned into believing that Americans could not wait to go to war in Europe.

NOTE: Fascism and Communism are equally abhorrent political systems to most Americans. Before the world learned of the Holocaust, it would not have mattered one iota which side won in Europe. Had the Holocaust never happened it would be easier today to show Fascism and Communism as both sides of the same coin. Because the Holocaust did happen, Fascism is the more evil of the two, but not by much. American Socialists/Communists claim sainthood under false pretenses to this day because of the Holocaust.

5. The British had broken the Japanese Naval Code before Dec. 1941. FDR’s defenders claim that he was not told that the Japanese Naval Code had been broken prior to Dec. 7, 1941. For anyone to believe that FDR did not know the attack was imminent ignores the kind of president FDR was. Nothing went on in his Administrations that he didn’t know about. That man was the most manipulative, devious, president who ever lived in the White House. Can anyone realistically believe that breaking the Japanese Naval Code was kept from him? Defending such a position boggles the mind considering the political environment of the time.

6. There were no aircraft carriers in Pearl Harbor on the day of the attack. The warships that were there were obsolete for the most part. FDR did not want to give the Japanese Navy that big of an edge by putting this country’s aircraft carriers in harm’s way.

7. The Japanese ambassador to Washington was kept waiting until after the attack began. Hence, Dec. 7 became a day of infamy rather than a declaration of war before the attack started.

The one component of the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory that is never, or seldom, speculated about is the suicide of James V. Forrestal.

Forrestal’s brief biography, taken from an encyclopedia, is interesting in relation to the attack on Pearl Harbor:

“Forrestal, James Vincent (1892-1949), American banker and government official, born in Beacon, New York, and educated at Dartmouth College and Princeton University. In 1916 he joined the New York City investment firm of Dillon, Reed, and Company. He became president of the firm in 1938. Two years later Forrestal was appointed undersecretary of the navy and served in that post until 1944, when he became secretary of the navy. He was one of the chief planners of the unification of the three armed services in a single executive department of the federal government. In 1947, when unification was effected by congressional enactment, Forrestal became the first secretary of defense of the U.S. He resigned the post because of ill health early in 1949.”​

The next quote was taken from a chronology of events in 1949 and is not connected to Forrestal’s biography.

“The U.S. Defense Department is created August 10 by a retitling of the War Department under terms of the National Security Act of 1947. The first secretary of defense James V. Forrestal resigned in March with symptoms of nervous exhaustion and depression, entered Bethesda Naval Hospital, and jumped from a window there May 22, dying at age 57.”​

Note that Forrestal’s promotion to secretary of the navy in 1944 shows that he was one of FDR’s fair-haired boys. FDR did not move anyone up the ladder he did not trust completely. If there is any truth to the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory, Forrestal, as under secretary of the navy at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, must have known about it even if he disagreed with FDR’s ultimate decision. If he didn’t know about it in 1941, he may have acquired top secret information after he became secretary of the navy in ‘44, or after he became secretary of defense in 1947, that allowed him to put it all together.

Here are two purely speculative questions, if ever answered, would either prove that FDR knew, or the answers could clear up the Forrestal suicide in relation to Pearl Harbor.

1. In light of his loyalty to FDR, and subsequently FDR’s Pearl Harbor decision, was Forrestal’s depression brought on when he finally came to understand where FDR’s Socialists/Communists intended to take the country? (The U.N. was a fact of life in 1949.)

2. Was Forrestal a man of such conscience he had to commit suicide because he could no longer live with the secret of Pearl Harbor?

Nor could Forrestal blow the whistle and harm the country. An internal conflict of that magnitude would break the strongest man of conscience.

One other possibility is that New Deal Socialists/Communists murdered Forrestal because he was on the verge of telling all. Anything that would destroy FDR’s ongoing deification process would also tarnish Eleanor Roosevelt, and from there question the then-infant United Nations. Socialists would not let that happen then or now.

The Wall Nobody Talks About​

Wow!

Lots in there that should have its own thread!!!



For me.....FDR wanted the economic crisis to continue, for several reasons.

I hope that readers will see that that is exactly what he did.....and begin to wonder why.



Hope to see more of your posts, Flanders.

 

[PoliticalChic]

To PoliticalChic: Great Thread. I want to add a few thoughts.

The year 1938 was the worst year of the Great Depressions. That was six years after FDR was in office. Were it not for gearing up for WW II there is no telling how long the GD would have lasted.

It is difficult to talk about FDR without examining how he manipulated WW II in order to save Soviet Communism. Note that pertinent facts are spliced into my analysis of the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory.

The following is my interpretation and nothing more.

The Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory must be examined with the politics and events that led to America’s entry into the war in Europe. Once again, my comments are my interpretation of a theory.

1. The American public wanted no part of the war in Europe. FDR, spurred on by Churchill, was determined to get the U.S. into that war which began in 1939. Churchill’s agenda was to keep Germany from becoming a world power; thereby, threatening the British Empire and its interests. The Empire was already in serious trouble at the time; especially in India where the Raj was under attack by independence-minded Indians like Gandhi (1869 - 1948). There was also a strong faction inside India who wanted to enter the war on Germany’s side.

2. Japan was Germany’s ally. The biggest single mistake Hitler made was in declaring war on the United States not long after Pearl Harbor. I believe that both Germany and Japan were operating under the delusion that the U.S. could not fight a two ocean war.

3. Japan attacked the United States, yet 90% of this country’s war effort was directed towards the European War and saving Communism in the Soviet Union. Suspicious at the very least. One would think that FDR would have wanted to squash Japan out of existence as quickly as possible by putting all available resources into the Pacific War. Instead, he chose to concentrate on Europe. The Pacific War dragged on for four years as a result when it could have been brought to successful conclusion in one year.

4. Had Hitler not declared war on the U.S., FDR would have been forced to concentrate the war effort on Japan. Hitler’s miscalculation was compounded here. After Japan had been beaten, the American public would still have been against helping Communism survive in the Soviet Union.

Americans could see no good reason for entering the war in Europe. Polls taken in the pre-WWII era showed that 80 percent of the American people wanted no part of a European war. As late as June 23, 1941, then-Senator Truman remarked:

If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible. Harry Truman​

Senator Harry S. Truman was a vehement opponent of America getting involved in a second European War. The man who would later become president understood the American people because he was one of them. To hear today’s liberals talk about WWII, young Americans have been conned into believing that Americans could not wait to go to war in Europe.

NOTE: Fascism and Communism are equally abhorrent political systems to most Americans. Before the world learned of the Holocaust, it would not have mattered one iota which side won in Europe. Had the Holocaust never happened it would be easier today to show Fascism and Communism as both sides of the same coin. Because the Holocaust did happen, Fascism is the more evil of the two, but not by much. American Socialists/Communists claim sainthood under false pretenses to this day because of the Holocaust.

5. The British had broken the Japanese Naval Code before Dec. 1941. FDR’s defenders claim that he was not told that the Japanese Naval Code had been broken prior to Dec. 7, 1941. For anyone to believe that FDR did not know the attack was imminent ignores the kind of president FDR was. Nothing went on in his Administrations that he didn’t know about. That man was the most manipulative, devious, president who ever lived in the White House. Can anyone realistically believe that breaking the Japanese Naval Code was kept from him? Defending such a position boggles the mind considering the political environment of the time.

6. There were no aircraft carriers in Pearl Harbor on the day of the attack. The warships that were there were obsolete for the most part. FDR did not want to give the Japanese Navy that big of an edge by putting this country’s aircraft carriers in harm’s way.

7. The Japanese ambassador to Washington was kept waiting until after the attack began. Hence, Dec. 7 became a day of infamy rather than a declaration of war before the attack started.

The one component of the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory that is never, or seldom, speculated about is the suicide of James V. Forrestal.

Forrestal’s brief biography, taken from an encyclopedia, is interesting in relation to the attack on Pearl Harbor:

“Forrestal, James Vincent (1892-1949), American banker and government official, born in Beacon, New York, and educated at Dartmouth College and Princeton University. In 1916 he joined the New York City investment firm of Dillon, Reed, and Company. He became president of the firm in 1938. Two years later Forrestal was appointed undersecretary of the navy and served in that post until 1944, when he became secretary of the navy. He was one of the chief planners of the unification of the three armed services in a single executive department of the federal government. In 1947, when unification was effected by congressional enactment, Forrestal became the first secretary of defense of the U.S. He resigned the post because of ill health early in 1949.”​

The next quote was taken from a chronology of events in 1949 and is not connected to Forrestal’s biography.

“The U.S. Defense Department is created August 10 by a retitling of the War Department under terms of the National Security Act of 1947. The first secretary of defense James V. Forrestal resigned in March with symptoms of nervous exhaustion and depression, entered Bethesda Naval Hospital, and jumped from a window there May 22, dying at age 57.”​

Note that Forrestal’s promotion to secretary of the navy in 1944 shows that he was one of FDR’s fair-haired boys. FDR did not move anyone up the ladder he did not trust completely. If there is any truth to the Pearl Harbor Conspiracy Theory, Forrestal, as under secretary of the navy at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack, must have known about it even if he disagreed with FDR’s ultimate decision. If he didn’t know about it in 1941, he may have acquired top secret information after he became secretary of the navy in ‘44, or after he became secretary of defense in 1947, that allowed him to put it all together.

Here are two purely speculative questions, if ever answered, would either prove that FDR knew, or the answers could clear up the Forrestal suicide in relation to Pearl Harbor.

1. In light of his loyalty to FDR, and subsequently FDR’s Pearl Harbor decision, was Forrestal’s depression brought on when he finally came to understand where FDR’s Socialists/Communists intended to take the country? (The U.N. was a fact of life in 1949.)

2. Was Forrestal a man of such conscience he had to commit suicide because he could no longer live with the secret of Pearl Harbor?

Nor could Forrestal blow the whistle and harm the country. An internal conflict of that magnitude would break the strongest man of conscience.

One other possibility is that New Deal Socialists/Communists murdered Forrestal because he was on the verge of telling all. Anything that would destroy FDR’s ongoing deification process would also tarnish Eleanor Roosevelt, and from there question the then-infant United Nations. Socialists would not let that happen then or now.

The Wall Nobody Talks About​

"It is difficult to talk about FDR without examining how he manipulated WW II in order to save Soviet Communism."


Wow!!!!


That's a home run, right there!!!


And it relates to the question I posed in post #110.



The boot-lickers will never admit how the two points are related.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

So FDR created the Great Depression and Hoover pulled the country out of it; why can't America's historians understand that simple conservative fact?

Actually, the war pulled us out. There was a massive surge in jobs producing weapons and machine components during the war.

Just more evidence FDR did not spend enough on the New Deal and other programs. It was pure Keynes, and apparently that's all we use now.

A president cannot spend their way out of a Depression, only the Private Sector can fix the economy. All a president can do is remove regulations or watch. We wouldn't have even had a Depression, let alone one that lasted so long if FDR hadn't regulated businesses into oblivion. Compulsory Unionism, tripled taxes, prices locked high, waves and waves of lawsuits, locked high wages, and even more regulations I haven't mentioned, prevented the economy from recovering. FDR provided jobs, sure, but government jobs aren't self sustaining, they come from tax dollars, and they don't expand to keep of with demand. FDR damaged the economy even further, then prevented recovery with his policies, while spending far more than he needed. If he had done nothing, the recession wouldn't have become a depression, and it would have lasted 2-4 years.

So how do you explain the steady growth of industry and reduced unemployment from 1933 to 1939 before the economy surged with war production? And all this was done in spite of the chain of natural disasters known as the Dust Bowl Storms that wreaked havoc during that period of years.

The economy always repairs itself naturally, a president would have to mess up majorly, or intentionally destroy it in order to keep it from recovering at all, and I don't think they have that kind of power. There's also the fact that the NIRA, while doing massive amounts of damage, was declared unconstitutional in 1935, further allowing the economy to recover on its own, despite Franklin Roosevelt's intentional incompetence.

You're wasting your time trying to tell the left their hero FDR was a massive failure. Read the book FDR's Folly....it explains it in perfect detail

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Actually, the war pulled us out. There was a massive surge in jobs producing weapons and machine components during the war.

Just more evidence FDR did not spend enough on the New Deal and other programs. It was pure Keynes, and apparently that's all we use now.

A president cannot spend their way out of a Depression, only the Private Sector can fix the economy. All a president can do is remove regulations or watch. We wouldn't have even had a Depression, let alone one that lasted so long if FDR hadn't regulated businesses into oblivion. Compulsory Unionism, tripled taxes, prices locked high, waves and waves of lawsuits, locked high wages, and even more regulations I haven't mentioned, prevented the economy from recovering. FDR provided jobs, sure, but government jobs aren't self sustaining, they come from tax dollars, and they don't expand to keep of with demand. FDR damaged the economy even further, then prevented recovery with his policies, while spending far more than he needed. If he had done nothing, the recession wouldn't have become a depression, and it would have lasted 2-4 years.

So how do you explain the steady growth of industry and reduced unemployment from 1933 to 1939 before the economy surged with war production? And all this was done in spite of the chain of natural disasters known as the Dust Bowl Storms that wreaked havoc during that period of years.

The economy always repairs itself naturally, a president would have to mess up majorly, or intentionally destroy it in order to keep it from recovering at all, and I don't think they have that kind of power. There's also the fact that the NIRA, while doing massive amounts of damage, was declared unconstitutional in 1935, further allowing the economy to recover on its own, despite Franklin Roosevelt's intentional incompetence.

You're wasting your time trying to tell the left their hero FDR was a massive failure. Read the book FDR's Folly....it explains it in perfect detail

I have, it's a really good book~

I've noticed these guys are just repeating themselves, they have nothing of substance to debate with.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Just more evidence FDR did not spend enough on the New Deal and other programs. It was pure Keynes, and apparently that's all we use now.

A president cannot spend their way out of a Depression, only the Private Sector can fix the economy. All a president can do is remove regulations or watch. We wouldn't have even had a Depression, let alone one that lasted so long if FDR hadn't regulated businesses into oblivion. Compulsory Unionism, tripled taxes, prices locked high, waves and waves of lawsuits, locked high wages, and even more regulations I haven't mentioned, prevented the economy from recovering. FDR provided jobs, sure, but government jobs aren't self sustaining, they come from tax dollars, and they don't expand to keep of with demand. FDR damaged the economy even further, then prevented recovery with his policies, while spending far more than he needed. If he had done nothing, the recession wouldn't have become a depression, and it would have lasted 2-4 years.

So how do you explain the steady growth of industry and reduced unemployment from 1933 to 1939 before the economy surged with war production? And all this was done in spite of the chain of natural disasters known as the Dust Bowl Storms that wreaked havoc during that period of years.

The economy always repairs itself naturally, a president would have to mess up majorly, or intentionally destroy it in order to keep it from recovering at all, and I don't think they have that kind of power. There's also the fact that the NIRA, while doing massive amounts of damage, was declared unconstitutional in 1935, further allowing the economy to recover on its own, despite Franklin Roosevelt's intentional incompetence.

You're wasting your time trying to tell the left their hero FDR was a massive failure. Read the book FDR's Folly....it explains it in perfect detail

I have, it's a really good book~

I've noticed these guys are just repeating themselves, they have nothing of substance to debate with.

They're leftists, w/o their media masters constantly indoctrinating them they run out of talking points. Good for you on reading the book and yes it's a really good book on FDR and his massive failure

 

[regent]

What a waste if time trying to convince a few USMB members to hate FDR. First the American people rated the candidates with the election process, the people elected FDR four times, a record that may stand as long as the nation.
After the president leaves office the historians then rate the ex-presidents. They recently rated FDR number one, the best. He may not remain the best as we continually elect new presidents. How come liberals don't attack Lincoln?

 

[Unkotare]

What a waste if time trying to convince a few USMB members to hate FDR. First the American people rated the candidates with the election process, the people elected FDR four times, a record that may stand as long as the nation.
After the president leaves office the historians then rate the ex-presidents. They recently rated FDR number one, the best. He may not remain the best as we continually elect new presidents. How come liberals don't attack Lincoln?

Same old fallacy.

 

[Unkotare]

A president cannot spend their way out of a Depression, only the Private Sector can fix the economy. All a president can do is remove regulations or watch. We wouldn't have even had a Depression, let alone one that lasted so long if FDR hadn't regulated businesses into oblivion. Compulsory Unionism, tripled taxes, prices locked high, waves and waves of lawsuits, locked high wages, and even more regulations I haven't mentioned, prevented the economy from recovering. FDR provided jobs, sure, but government jobs aren't self sustaining, they come from tax dollars, and they don't expand to keep of with demand. FDR damaged the economy even further, then prevented recovery with his policies, while spending far more than he needed. If he had done nothing, the recession wouldn't have become a depression, and it would have lasted 2-4 years.

So how do you explain the steady growth of industry and reduced unemployment from 1933 to 1939 before the economy surged with war production? And all this was done in spite of the chain of natural disasters known as the Dust Bowl Storms that wreaked havoc during that period of years.

The economy always repairs itself naturally, a president would have to mess up majorly, or intentionally destroy it in order to keep it from recovering at all, and I don't think they have that kind of power. There's also the fact that the NIRA, while doing massive amounts of damage, was declared unconstitutional in 1935, further allowing the economy to recover on its own, despite Franklin Roosevelt's intentional incompetence.

You're wasting your time trying to tell the left their hero FDR was a massive failure. Read the book FDR's Folly....it explains it in perfect detail

I have, it's a really good book~

I've noticed these guys are just repeating themselves, they have nothing of substance to debate with.

They're leftists, w/o their media masters constantly indoctrinating them they run out of talking points. Good for you on reading the book and yes it's a really good book on FDR and his massive failure

The scumbag was more than just a failure, he was aggressively un-American.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

What a waste if time trying to convince a few USMB members to hate FDR. First the American people rated the candidates with the election process, the people elected FDR four times, a record that may stand as long as the nation.
After the president leaves office the historians then rate the ex-presidents. They recently rated FDR number one, the best. He may not remain the best as we continually elect new presidents. How come liberals don't attack Lincoln?

He's not the best, the vast majority of any civilization is ignorant, and most people today only know what the government education system told them. People think that FDR lead the nation out of the great depression, and we just showed you that he not only turned the recession into a depression to start with, but also extended it with policies that did the opposite of what he claimed they did. If you think this is wrong, then explain how the policies I mentioned would help the economy. Otherwise, you have no ground to stand on.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What a waste if time trying to convince a few USMB members to hate FDR. First the American people rated the candidates with the election process, the people elected FDR four times, a record that may stand as long as the nation.
After the president leaves office the historians then rate the ex-presidents. They recently rated FDR number one, the best. He may not remain the best as we continually elect new presidents. How come liberals don't attack Lincoln?

"What a waste if time trying to convince a few USMB members to hate FDR."

No, you dunce.

I'm simply offering the truth, and a chance to break free of the sort of indoctrination that you have neither the strength nor the courage to attempt to shuffle off.



Watch me prove it:

In dozens of posts, you have yet to find a single example where I've been wrong, inaccurate, or untrue.

What does that say about you?
What does that say about me?

 

[Tehon]

What a waste if time trying to convince a few USMB members to hate FDR. First the American people rated the candidates with the election process, the people elected FDR four times, a record that may stand as long as the nation.
After the president leaves office the historians then rate the ex-presidents. They recently rated FDR number one, the best. He may not remain the best as we continually elect new presidents. How come liberals don't attack Lincoln?

He's not the best, the vast majority of any civilization is ignorant, and most people today only know what the government education system told them. People think that FDR lead the nation out of the great depression, and we just showed you that he not only turned the recession into a depression to start with, but also extended it with policies that did the opposite of what he claimed they did. If you think this is wrong, then explain how the policies I mentioned would help the economy. Otherwise, you have no ground to stand on.

What prolonged the great depression was FDR's reverting back to the fiscally conservative policy of balancing the budget in 1937 which set back the economic gains which had been made.