Sarah Brady has died

[2aguy]

Condor...when you can't even get Canadians to follow your craziness...you are in real trouble....

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up - Forbes


The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

A billion dollars to try...try...to register 15 million long guns....and we have over 320 million in private hands...in the hands of people who will simply not comply with the request...thereby requiring violent enforcement and arrests.........yeah.....sell that crap somewhere else.....

 

[Roadrunner]

Condor...when you can't even get Canadians to follow your craziness...you are in real trouble....

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up - Forbes


The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million. In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

A billion dollars to try...try...to register 15 million long guns....and we have over 320 million in private hands...in the hands of people who will not simply comply with the request...thereby requiring violent enforcement and arrests.........yeah.....sell that crap somewhere else.....

I have a friend that got a nice settlement when he was arrested and jailed for having a stolen gun, because the stupid cop ran the model number instead of the serial number.

It was a limited edition, low serial number handgun, and even with the bill of sale, and the box it came in, the cop cuffed him and took him to jail.

 

[2aguy]

And to my point.....registering guns won't do what you say it will do.....it will not stop or solve crimes....


So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.
There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

 

[Kondor3]

...Please...explain how any of those categories of killers would be stopped by gun registration...

Not just Registration, but Licensure, Centralized Databases, paper-trails of ownership and possession, and draconian penalties for violators, from manufacturers to wholesalers to retailers to individuals... and, with that in mind, to answer your question about the various categories...

...Criminals with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop criminals from getting guns, but it will thin-out and dry-up the pipelines through which criminals routinely acquire them now, and force them even further underground, and to shrink the Black Market in such things - eventually, over a few decades, by an order of magnitude or more.

...Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop mental ill citizens from getting guns if they do not have a history of such things, but such an approach will screen-out those that do.

And, for firearms owners who incur and suffer a debilitating mental condition AFTER they have become licensed and registered their firearms...

A National Approach would involve requiring health caregivers to report substantive and debilitating mental instability to a reviewing authority with a recommendation to suspend or revoke a license or registration and require the owner to surrender such firearms pending an administrative or judicial hearing to determine any longer-term disposition.

Thereby taking firearms out of the hands of a great many suffering minds, until they heal.

...Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop this.

...Children playing with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop this.

-----------------------

So, a National Approach, along the lines of that suggested, will eventually (1) dry-up the pipeline for illegal arms, down to a trickle and (2) take guns away from unstable folks.

We're not going to solve the whole problem, but, hell, even if we only put a decent-sized dent in the overall problem, it will have been worth the effort.

Or so it seems to this observer.

 

[rightwinger]

Sarah Brady has died

But the Brady Bill she fought so hard for lives on

It is her legacy

 

[Conservative65]

Sarah Brady has died

But the Brady Bill she fought so hard for lives on

It is her legacy

So does the 2nd Amendment.

 

[rightwinger]

Lost in the rhetoric is the fact that Hinckley intended to murder the president of the United States, Ronald Reagan. If Sara Brady wanted to take up an issue it should have been the ludicrous insanity defense that got Hinckley off the hook. The media loved the image of the alleged fascination Hinckley had with actress Jodie Foster but it may have been fabricated by the defense. Hinckley may have suffered from depression and he may have abused drugs but the guy was elected president of his high school twice and was as sane as the high school golf coach who threatened to burn the pizza place because she was angry about the Indiana religious preservation law.

They don't care about gun crime....you can tell this is true because nothing they propose would actually deal with actual gun crime.....they care about guns.....that is why everything they propose is directed at gun ownership and not gun crime......

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

 

[2aguy]

...Please...explain how any of those categories of killers would be stopped by gun registration...

Not just Registration, but Licensure, Centralized Databases, paper-trails of ownership and possession, and draconian penalties for violators, from manufacturers to wholesalers to retailers to individuals... and, with that in mind, to answer your question about the various categories...

...Criminals with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop criminals from getting guns, but it will thin-out and dry-up the pipelines through which criminals routinely acquire them now, and force them even further underground, and to shrink the Black Market in such things - eventually, over a few decades, by an order of magnitude or more.

...Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop mental ill citizens from getting guns if they do not have a history of such things, but such an approach will screen-out those that do.

And, for firearms owners who incur and suffer a debilitating mental condition AFTER they have become licensed and registered their firearms...

A National Approach would involve requiring health caregivers to report substantive and debilitating mental instability to a reviewing authority with a recommendation to suspend or revoke a license or registration and require the owner to surrender such firearms pending an administrative or judicial hearing to determine any longer-term disposition.

Thereby taking firearms out of the hands of a great many suffering minds, until they heal.

...Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop this.

...Children playing with guns kill people...

A National Approach will not stop this.

-----------------------

So, a National Approach, along the lines of that suggested, will eventually (1) dry-up the pipeline for illegal arms, down to a trickle and (2) take guns away from unstable folks.

We're not going to solve the whole problem, but, hell, even if we only put a decent-sized dent in the overall problem, it will have been worth the effort.

Or so it seems to this observer.

Sorry, wrong on all counts......if a nut wants a gun and can't' get it because they are mentally ill...they will kill their mother and steal hers...and then go into a grade school and kill 26 people.........

Every category you point out how it won't stop them from getting guns and then say....gee whiz.....if given the exact right circumstances...it might, very possibly sort of almost stop some of them from possibly getting guns.....


And if registering 15 million guns in Canada...where they are more lemming like than Americans cost 1 billion dollars...how much money will it cost to register over 320 million guns.........you do the math.....

and the gave it up because they realized how stupid and useless the whole exercise was...with a country of people who bowed before their government vs. independent thinking Americans....

 

[Kondor3]

...Hmmm...at this point you fascists are losing...

Who is a fascist?

How does advocacy for National Standards for firearms Registration and Licensure equate to fascism?

...Get ahead of it....or get steam rolled by it.....

Perhaps it's time to call your bluff.

 

[2aguy]

They don't care about gun crime....you can tell this is true because nothing they propose would actually deal with actual gun crime.....they care about guns.....that is why everything they propose is directed at gun ownership and not gun crime......

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

8-9,000 gun murders are committed by people who can't legally own guns...or carry them.....and yet they still got them.......

 

[2aguy]

...Hmmm...at this point you fascists are losing...

Who is a fascist?

How does advocacy for National Standards for firearms Registration and Licensure equate to fascism?

...Get ahead of it....or get steam rolled by it.....

Perhaps it's time to call your bluff.

Because it gives power and control to a central government....the height of fascism/socialism....

 

[2aguy]

They don't care about gun crime....you can tell this is true because nothing they propose would actually deal with actual gun crime.....they care about guns.....that is why everything they propose is directed at gun ownership and not gun crime......

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

Why the focus on AR-15s then.....they kill less people than hands and feet, knives and clubs....yet you gun grabbers are obsessed with them......I mean if you care about the tools that kill people that is......

 

[rightwinger]

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

8-9,000 gun murders are committed by people who can't legally own guns...or carry them.....and yet they still got them.......

And the NRA will not do a thing to help us stop it

The other 5000 are just asshole gun owners who make an instantaneous choice to end a life

 

[9thIDdoc]

"Hell, the gun-phobic Euros regulate guns much more vigorously than any such approach being proposed in this country, and their governments have never made a move to seize guns en masse from their citizenry, so, given that precedent in a far more heavily regulated environment, and given our own tradition of a Right to Bear Arms, there is no rational basis for believing that it would happen here."

Bullshit. You are either in denial, blind, or deliberately spouting propaganda. The problem-and it should be obvious to anyone paying attention-is that once licensing or registration become legal requirements the issuing authority can make the requirements impossible to meet or charge fees so high that only the very rich can afford them. Legalized discrimination.

 

[rightwinger]

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

Why the focus on AR-15s then.....they kill less people than hands and feet, knives and clubs....yet you gun grabbers are obsessed with them......I mean if you care about the tools that kill people that is......

AR-15s are great if you want to kill a classroom full of first graders

Don't ya agree?

 

[2aguy]

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

8-9,000 gun murders are committed by people who can't legally own guns...or carry them.....and yet they still got them.......

And the NRA will not do a thing to help us stop it

The other 5000 are just asshole gun owners who make an instantaneous choice to end a life

No...the NRA supported background checks....even though they don't do anything to stop those gun murders....the NRA also supports locking up criminals who use guns to commit crimes...so you are completely wrong....

 

[Kondor3]

...Sorry, wrong on all counts...

Hardly.

...if a nut wants a gun and can't' get it because they are mentally ill...they will kill their mother and steal hers...and then go into a grade school and kill 26 people...

Where did you see me (or any other advocate of registration and licensure) say that such an approach is a rock-solid guarantee against gun violence?

Nowhere... that's where.

What IS being advanced is the idea that registration and licensing will greatly REDUCE both the supply and the incident rate over time.

...Every category you point out how it won't stop them from getting guns and then say....gee whiz.....if given the exact right circumstances...it might, very possibly sort of almost stop some of them from possibly getting guns....

Calm yourself. There is a vast difference between stopping the illegal obtaining of guns entirely, versus reducing it by an order of magnitude... enough to make it worthwhile.

...And if registering 15 million guns in Canada...where they are more lemming like than Americans cost 1 billion dollars...how much money will it cost to register over 320 million guns.........you do the math.....

One billion dollars? Nationwide? Compared to the national budget, like the size of a circus flea next to the Empire State Building. MEH.

Besides, we can do it better and cheaper - much cheaper - if we do it right. It's a flea, compared to the national budget, and not a barrier to moving forward.

 

[2aguy]

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

Why the focus on AR-15s then.....they kill less people than hands and feet, knives and clubs....yet you gun grabbers are obsessed with them......I mean if you care about the tools that kill people that is......

AR-15/ are great if you want to kill a classroom full of first graders

Don't ya agree?

Not really...you can do the same with a couple of pistols and they conceal much more easily, you could carry several semi-automatic pistols and ride a public bus to your gun free killing site............or revolvers and nobody expects to ban those...those are on the end of the bucket list for gun grabbers....

 

[Roadrunner]

Guns don't kill people....people with guns kill people

No, people with guns don't kill people.....criminals with guns kill people......

Criminals with guns kill people.

Paranoids with guns kill people.

Psychotics with guns kill people.

Sociopaths with guns kill people.

Jealous husbands and wives with guns kill people.

Children playing with guns kill people.

And on and on and on.

National Standards for gun registration and licensure and sale and transfer and transport and disposal and education and training are a necessary step forward and an idea whose time has come.

Might as well play King Canute trying to sweep back the sea with a broom.

It's coming.

The question is, whether you (Gun Owners) have the sense to get out in front of it, to have a considerable input into and impact upon the dialogue, and the outcome.

In the long run, you can't stop it from happening, but you can have one helluva strong voice in how it looks when the dust settles.

Your choice.

All of those things can be said of baseball bats, knives and treelimbs.

Yet, two thirds of our murders are from guns......not baseball bats, knives or tree limbs

8-9,000 gun murders are committed by people who can't legally own guns...or carry them.....and yet they still got them.......

Not to mention the auto accidents that are murder/suicides that can't be proven, but certainly are just that.

 

[2aguy]

...Sorry, wrong on all counts...

Hardly.

...if a nut wants a gun and can't' get it because they are mentally ill...they will kill their mother and steal hers...and then go into a grade school and kill 26 people...

Where did you see me (or any other advocate of registration and licensure) say that such an approach is a rock-solid guarantee against gun violence?

Nowhere... that's where.

What IS being advanced is the idea that registration and licensing will greatly REDUCE both the supply and the incident rate over time.

...Every category you point out how it won't stop them from getting guns and then say....gee whiz.....if given the exact right circumstances...it might, very possibly sort of almost stop some of them from possibly getting guns....

Calm yourself. There is a vast difference between stopping the illegal obtaining of guns entirely, versus reducing it by an order of magnitude... enough to make it worthwhile.

...And if registering 15 million guns in Canada...where they are more lemming like than Americans cost 1 billion dollars...how much money will it cost to register over 320 million guns.........you do the math.....

One billion dollars? Nationwide? Compared to the national budget, like the size of a circus flea next to the Empire State Building. MEH.

Besides, we can do it better and cheaper - much cheaper - if we do it right. It's a flea, compared to the national budget, and not a barrier to moving forward.

What IS being advanced is the idea that registration and licensing will greatly REDUCE both the supply and the incident rate over time.

No it won't....felons don't have to register illegal guns...per the Supreme Court, and they won't register stolen guns after they steal them from the people who registered them.....so no...registration will do absolutely nothing to prevent gun crime or mass shooting.......at all....