So when they say they want abortion safe, legal, and rare...

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I don't need anybody to tell me about conservatives. It's all right there for anyone to see.

...on DailyKOS, HuffPo, DU, MSNBC, CBS, the NYT...

If it's a lie, why do we still have abortion? Conservatives have been wailing about abortion for 40 years now, since the Nixon (R) administration. Since then we have had Ford, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2. During several years of Bush 2, Conservatives controlled all branches of the government. How many times did abortion come up for a vote? Why didn't they do away with it? If it is so fucking important, why did conservatives do nothing? It's just a cynical ploy to rile up the base every election cycle. It surprises me that people fall for it over and over and over.

You're confusing Republicans with conservatives. For some time now, the two have had little in common. That's what the TEA Party fuss was all about.

Teabaggers, conservatives, ultra conservatives, moral majoritarians... What's the difference? They are all Republicans.

Or more precisely, they’re what’s wrong with the GOP.

 

[daveman]

Daveman -

Have you noticed that allof your arguments against climate change are not based on science, but on politics?

I would have noticed that, if that was actually the case.

Sadly for you, it is not.

Go to the Enviro forum and look at the threads I started. You will find links to scientific studies that cast doubt on the tools and the science of AGW.

Run along, now. This thread is about the left wanting abortion to be only legal, not caring if it's safe, and wanting it to happen more and more often.

My advice would be to accept what scientists are telling us is happening - and THEN think about the best method to address those changes.

But you don't want to listen to all scientists -- just the ones that preach the correct dogma.

The only reason to fear unemployment and high energy prices is because Luddite-thinking is holding the US back, and meaning that you are being left in the dust by countries more adept with innovation.

Government is holding back innovation. It needs to get out of the way.

 

[daveman]

Abortion is a difficult and complex problem; it can’t be ended with the simplistic non-solutions conservatives advocate, such as ‘banning’ the practice.

Women were having abortions millennia before Roe and will continue to do so regardless abortion’s legal status. For conservatives ‘banning’ abortion is a feel-good measure only, where abortion will continue, it will simply be out of sight and out of mind.

Given the fact no conservative has offered actual, viable, concrete solutions to address the problem of abortion, their position on the issue is clearly partisan, used as an on-going controversy designed to energize the base and attack the left with false accusations – this thread is proof of that.

If conservatives were serious about ending abortion, they’d join with other Americans to pursue that goal in good faith, not continue to shamelessly use the issue as a political weapon, as is the case with the OP.

Instead of believing other progressives' bigoted lies about conservatives -- you could just ask us.

I keep telling you that. You seem to be more interested in bitterly clinging to your bigotry.

 

[daveman]

I don't need anybody to tell me about conservatives. It's all right there for anyone to see.

...on DailyKOS, HuffPo, DU, MSNBC, CBS, the NYT...

If it's a lie, why do we still have abortion? Conservatives have been wailing about abortion for 40 years now, since the Nixon (R) administration. Since then we have had Ford, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2. During several years of Bush 2, Conservatives controlled all branches of the government. How many times did abortion come up for a vote? Why didn't they do away with it? If it is so fucking important, why did conservatives do nothing? It's just a cynical ploy to rile up the base every election cycle. It surprises me that people fall for it over and over and over.

You're confusing Republicans with conservatives. For some time now, the two have had little in common. That's what the TEA Party fuss was all about.

Teabaggers, conservatives, ultra conservatives, moral majoritarians... What's the difference? They are all Republicans.

Uh huh. And Maoists, Marxists, Leninists, progressives, liberals, and left-leaning moderates are all the same.

Right?

 

[daveman]

...on DailyKOS, HuffPo, DU, MSNBC, CBS, the NYT...

You're confusing Republicans with conservatives. For some time now, the two have had little in common. That's what the TEA Party fuss was all about.

Teabaggers, conservatives, ultra conservatives, moral majoritarians... What's the difference? They are all Republicans.

Or more precisely, they’re what’s wrong with the GOP.

Yes, conservatives are a problem for the GOP. They keep insisting the party return to its conservative roots instead of sliding to the left as it has been.

We have one liberal party. We don't need two.

 

[Saigon]

I would have noticed that, if that was actually the case.

Sadly for you, it is not.

See your post #94.

Your argument here is political, not scientific.

 

[Political Junky]

Teabaggers, conservatives, ultra conservatives, moral majoritarians... What's the difference? They are all Republicans.

Or more precisely, they’re what’s wrong with the GOP.

Yes, conservatives are a problem for the GOP. They keep insisting the party return to its conservative roots instead of sliding to the left as it has been.

We have one liberal party. We don't need two.

The GOP is moving further and further right.

 

[BDBoop]

How is the bill not safe and sound?

How is it you don't know you're a dumbass?

Letting barely-trained personnel perform what is essentially surgery? THIS is safe to you?

Moron.

It's not surgery, it's a procedure. You can tell this because surgeons don't do abortions - since it's not surgery.

Also, if you want less abortions, free birth control is the answer. I know y'all hate the answer, but if you hate abortion more, then you'll try to eradicate it in the most effective way possible.

Abortion rates plummet with free birth control??? | Newsroom | Washington University in St. Louis

 

[BDBoop]

Considering that abortions due to rape and incest are a vanishingly small percentage of the reasons given for seeking abortion, perhaps women (and their partners) should take a few more precautions to prevent getting pregnant.

Does this mean that you support women having free access to contraception since that would be a precaution that would prevent them from becoming pregnant?

What is this obsession with free contraception? I have no obligation to fund anyone's sex life.

Condoms are cheap. Skip a couple of lattes and you can buy a 40-pack of condoms.

And frankly, anyone who's not in a long-term monogamous relationship and doesn't use a barrier contraceptive is an utter moron.

You don't get a say in the matter. How horrible is that!? I mean, I prefer my tax dollars not go for corporate welfare and war, but we can't all get what we want.

Answers to All Your Questions About Obamacare's Birth Control Mandate

 

[bayoubill]

...they don't give a shit about safe or rare, they just want it legal.

Gov. Brown to Sign Bill Legalizing Non-Physician Abortions in CA

A bill that would allow non-physicians to perform abortions in the first trimester of pregnancy is awaiting signature by Gov. Jerry Brown of California by Sep. 30. The bill, AB 154, passed both houses of the state legislature with strong support from Planned Parenthood and pro-choice groups. Planned Parenthood stands to benefit most directly from the bill, as non-physician staff at its clinics would be able to obtain abortion licenses.
One doctor--who identified himself as pro-choice--told Breitbart News that "the bill is a disaster since it sends us back 100 years to the problems of the complications from back-steet abortions." The bill's critics warn that the training provided to non-physician staff is weak, that supervision by physicians in clinics will be minimal, and that there is real risk of injury or death to women who will be treated in such conditions.

The California Medical Association has endorsed AB 154 because of "provisions for training in the bill and the amendments that clarify physician supervision." Yet the training is to be provided by the Board of Registered Nursing, not by physicians, and the protocols for defining "supervision" have not been specified. There is nothing in the legislation requiring a physician to be present or on-site during an abortion.

The bill permits licensed non-physicians to perform two kinds of abortion in the first trimester--by medication, and by aspiration, which requires the insertion of medical instruments into the uterus. Though many doctors agree that non-physicians could provide medications with few risks, the idea that a non-physician would perform an invasive procedure such as aspiration strikes many as rife with risks.

--

Opponents describe AB 154 as an effort by Planned Parenthood and other groups to profit from Obamacare, since the legislation will expand the number of patients eligible for the state Medi-Cal program, and Medi-Cal pays for abortion. They also dispute assurances about the bill's safety for women, arguing that there has been inadequate monitoring of California abortion clinics even prior to the passage of the new legislation.​

I've got a business card ready to go...

reads "Have Coat Hanger, Will Travel"...

 

[Borillar]

...on DailyKOS, HuffPo, DU, MSNBC, CBS, the NYT...

You're confusing Republicans with conservatives. For some time now, the two have had little in common. That's what the TEA Party fuss was all about.

Teabaggers, conservatives, ultra conservatives, moral majoritarians... What's the difference? They are all Republicans.

Uh huh. And Maoists, Marxists, Leninists, progressives, liberals, and left-leaning moderates are all the same.

Right?

No. Maoists, Marxists, and Leninists vote Communist party. Progressives, liberals, and left leaning moderates vote Democratic party. That would be like me lumping Fascists, Nazis, and the KKK with the Republicans.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Teabaggers, conservatives, ultra conservatives, moral majoritarians... What's the difference? They are all Republicans.

Or more precisely, they’re what’s wrong with the GOP.

Yes, conservatives are a problem for the GOP. They keep insisting the party return to its conservative roots instead of sliding to the left as it has been.

We have one liberal party. We don't need two.

Nonsense.

Hostility towards homosexuals, same-sex couples, privacy and reproductive rights, voting rights, and immigrants’ rights has nothing to do with being ‘conservative.’

 

[NYcarbineer]

Some professionals think it will be, as shown in the OP. Do you think you know better than them?

No pretense. Human life matters to me.

To progressives? Not so much. You can tell because they only want abortion to be legal. They don't give a damn about safe or rare.

You keep insisting that it's not safe and yet you cannot provide a shred of evidence to support that claim.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Good Gaea. You're really clueless, aren't you?

Abortion Pro life Planned Parenthood at Life Dynamics

The Blackmun Wall is a listing of the women killed by legal abortions, along with information regarding the circumstances of their death. We named this project after Harry Blackmun. Justice Blackmun was the U.S. Supreme Court justice who wrote the Roe v. Wade decision, which legalized abortion and launched America's Holocaust.

The abortion picture painted by pro-choice advocates is that the US Supreme Court and Justice Harry Blackmun's Roe vs. Wade and Doe vs. Bolton decisions turned abortionists into doctors. Abortion clinic operators like Planned Parenthood like to pretend that the decision written by Justice Blackmun made abortions safe and legal, but the truth is that making abortion legal never made abortion safe. Abortionists are the bottom-feeders of the medical profession and abortion procedures jeopardize the health of the mother in order to terminate pregnancy. 'Safe legal abortions' killed every one of the women on this site.

As you review this list, please remember that the hundreds of pro-choice women listed here represents only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to abortion deaths. We have statistics from both state and federal reporting agencies documenting many more abortion-related deaths than are listed here. However, because we had no further details on them we were not able to include them. Additionally, our research clearly indicates that, for a variety of reasons, the overwhelming majority of abortion-related deaths remain undiscovered.

Life Dynamics continues to investigate and catalogue the deaths of women that are due to legalized abortion. The Blackmun Wall will be updated, as new information is received. The wall is comprised of 29 panels, listing 347 women, along with the available details of each one's death. To get the details of each woman's abortion-related death, just click on her name. Plaques that list only a first name represent victims whose full name was not available, usually because of confidentiality or privacy constraints.​

But, hey, women are just walking genitals, right? It's not like they're people.

That's the way the left views women, by the way. The Democratic Party insists women only care about abortion and consequence-free sex.

And more evidence (not that you'll accept any of this):

Botched Abortions Send West Virginia Women to Hospitals Every Week | LifeNews.com

Abortion-related medical emergencies are occurring with alarming frequency, according to a West Virginia physician, who says he sees botched abortion patients “weekly.”

“We commonly (I personally probably at least weekly) see patients at Women and Children’s Hospital in our emergency room or our ultrasound center with complications from abortions at these centers in Charleston: so much for ‘safe and legal.’ These patients are told to come to our hospital because the abortion clinic providers do not have hospital privileges to care for their patients, so we must treat them as emergency ‘drop-ins,’” said Dr. Byron Calhoun, vice chairman of the Obstetrics and Gynecology Department at West Virginia University. The statement was made in a letter he wrote on June 31, 2013, to West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey.

“No other medical providers are allowed to care for patients, have no backup coverage, and then abandon them to the emergency room,” Calhoun wrote. “We would be held ethically and legally liable.

“The fantasy of women’s reproductive health care seems to allow these individuals who perform the abortions some special dispensation to provide substandard care.”​

Troubled Virginia Abortion Clinic Puts Bleeding Botched Abortion Patient in Hospital

Fairfax, Virginia – A 35-year old diabetic patient suffering from heavy bleeding after an abortion at Nova Women’s Healthcare was rushed to the hospital on March 3, 2012, according to recently obtained 911 records.

Pro-life activists were at the scene and videotaped the ambulance and fire units that responded to the 911 call and later sought the 911 records through an open records act request.

Nova Women’s Healthcare has a long history of abortion injuries and standard of care violations, including the death of a patient in 2002. Its owner, Mi Yong Kim, continues to operate the abortion clinic even though she was forced to surrender her medical license in 2007.

In 1998, Kim was disciplined for failing to determine the gestational age of pregnancy for one of her abortion patients. Board documents reveal that she assumed one patient’s pregnancy was 8 weeks, but in reality her baby was 26 weeks gestation. The ensuing botched abortion landed the woman in the hospital with life-threatening injuries
In 2005, Kim was disciplined after a patient died from an air embolism during an abortion. Kim improperly sedated her patient, failing to realize that she had gone into cardiac arrest. Kim did not attempt to resuscitate her.​

Is this safe to you?

I'm not about to spend an hour trying to verify if material from an anti-abortion propaganda site is actually true or not,

mostly because it's not relevant.

Having a baby is more dangerous to a woman than having an abortion. Deal with that fact.

 

[JoeB131]

How is the bill not safe and sound?

How is it you don't know you're a dumbass?

Letting barely-trained personnel perform what is essentially surgery? THIS is safe to you?

Moron.

First Trimester abortion is not complicated, and a nurse or PA could perform it pretty easily.

But this isn't about women's safety. This is about them controlling their lady parts. We just can't have that.

 

[JoeB131]

[

But you don't want to have reasonable restrictions on abortion.
You want more Kermit Gosnells.

Free birth control?
Free for whom?
The people who pay for it?
I don't see the need for taxpayer funded birth control.
Nor taxpayer funded abortions.
If people want them, they can pay for them.

You know, take responsibility for your life, for your choices.

Kermit Gosnell exists because we don't have cheap, safe abortions available for poor people, who wait longer than they should to terminate pregnancies.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How is it you don't know you're a dumbass?

Letting barely-trained personnel perform what is essentially surgery? THIS is safe to you?

Moron.

It's not surgery, it's a procedure. You can tell this because surgeons don't do abortions - since it's not surgery.

Also, if you want less abortions, free birth control is the answer. I know y'all hate the answer, but if you hate abortion more, then you'll try to eradicate it in the most effective way possible.

Abortion rates plummet with free birth control??? | Newsroom | Washington University in St. Louis

But you don't want to have reasonable restrictions on abortion.
You want more Kermit Gosnells.

Free birth control?
Free for whom?
The people who pay for it?
I don't see the need for taxpayer funded birth control.
Nor taxpayer funded abortions.
If people want them, they can pay for them.

You know, take responsibility for your life, for your choices.

Nonsense.

No one is opposed to reasonable restrictions after viability.

 

[editec]

Note how the concern is about making it easier to have abortions, not about how this might not be safe for the women?

One wonders how one can be so concerned for the as yet unliving while not giving a damn about the already alive.

Why if one were cynical one might suspect that all this anti-choice bruhaha about the sanctity of life is just so much ncontrol freaking BS.

These people do not care about live so much as they care about controlling other's lives.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Good Gaea. You're really clueless, aren't you?

Abortion Pro life Planned Parenthood at Life Dynamics

The Blackmun Wall is a listing of the women killed by legal abortions, along with information regarding the circumstances of their death. We named this project after Harry Blackmun. Justice Blackmun was the U.S. Supreme Court justice who wrote the Roe v. Wade decision, which legalized abortion and launched America's Holocaust.

The abortion picture painted by pro-choice advocates is that the US Supreme Court and Justice Harry Blackmun's Roe vs. Wade and Doe vs. Bolton decisions turned abortionists into doctors. Abortion clinic operators like Planned Parenthood like to pretend that the decision written by Justice Blackmun made abortions safe and legal, but the truth is that making abortion legal never made abortion safe. Abortionists are the bottom-feeders of the medical profession and abortion procedures jeopardize the health of the mother in order to terminate pregnancy. 'Safe legal abortions' killed every one of the women on this site.

As you review this list, please remember that the hundreds of pro-choice women listed here represents only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to abortion deaths. We have statistics from both state and federal reporting agencies documenting many more abortion-related deaths than are listed here. However, because we had no further details on them we were not able to include them. Additionally, our research clearly indicates that, for a variety of reasons, the overwhelming majority of abortion-related deaths remain undiscovered.

Life Dynamics continues to investigate and catalogue the deaths of women that are due to legalized abortion. The Blackmun Wall will be updated, as new information is received. The wall is comprised of 29 panels, listing 347 women, along with the available details of each one's death. To get the details of each woman's abortion-related death, just click on her name. Plaques that list only a first name represent victims whose full name was not available, usually because of confidentiality or privacy constraints.​

But, hey, women are just walking genitals, right? It's not like they're people.

That's the way the left views women, by the way. The Democratic Party insists women only care about abortion and consequence-free sex.

And more evidence (not that you'll accept any of this):

Botched Abortions Send West Virginia Women to Hospitals Every Week | LifeNews.com

Abortion-related medical emergencies are occurring with alarming frequency, according to a West Virginia physician, who says he sees botched abortion patients “weekly.”

“We commonly (I personally probably at least weekly) see patients at Women and Children’s Hospital in our emergency room or our ultrasound center with complications from abortions at these centers in Charleston: so much for ‘safe and legal.’ These patients are told to come to our hospital because the abortion clinic providers do not have hospital privileges to care for their patients, so we must treat them as emergency ‘drop-ins,’” said Dr. Byron Calhoun, vice chairman of the Obstetrics and Gynecology Department at West Virginia University. The statement was made in a letter he wrote on June 31, 2013, to West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey.

“No other medical providers are allowed to care for patients, have no backup coverage, and then abandon them to the emergency room,” Calhoun wrote. “We would be held ethically and legally liable.

“The fantasy of women’s reproductive health care seems to allow these individuals who perform the abortions some special dispensation to provide substandard care.”​

Troubled Virginia Abortion Clinic Puts Bleeding Botched Abortion Patient in Hospital

Fairfax, Virginia – A 35-year old diabetic patient suffering from heavy bleeding after an abortion at Nova Women’s Healthcare was rushed to the hospital on March 3, 2012, according to recently obtained 911 records.

Pro-life activists were at the scene and videotaped the ambulance and fire units that responded to the 911 call and later sought the 911 records through an open records act request.

Nova Women’s Healthcare has a long history of abortion injuries and standard of care violations, including the death of a patient in 2002. Its owner, Mi Yong Kim, continues to operate the abortion clinic even though she was forced to surrender her medical license in 2007.

In 1998, Kim was disciplined for failing to determine the gestational age of pregnancy for one of her abortion patients. Board documents reveal that she assumed one patient’s pregnancy was 8 weeks, but in reality her baby was 26 weeks gestation. The ensuing botched abortion landed the woman in the hospital with life-threatening injuries
In 2005, Kim was disciplined after a patient died from an air embolism during an abortion. Kim improperly sedated her patient, failing to realize that she had gone into cardiac arrest. Kim did not attempt to resuscitate her.​

Is this safe to you?

I'm not about to spend an hour trying to verify if material from an anti-abortion propaganda site is actually true or not,

mostly because it's not relevant.

Having a baby is more dangerous to a woman than having an abortion. Deal with that fact.

Verify the facts, google Kermit Gosnell.

Gosnell has noting to do with the issue of abortion, it’s pure demagoguery on the right’s part.

 

[Derideo_Te]

...they don't give a shit about safe or rare, they just want it legal.

And the state should be able to NATIONALIZE women's uterus because........


.

A woman's uterus is humanity's progeny.

But let's not mutter the future of humanity with the convenience of choice.

Do you seriously want to go down that road? Your "convenience of choice" to masturbate should also be severely restricted since the "future of humanity" depends on the seed you are spilling. That argument cuts both ways.

 

[midcan5]

The right's fight to control a woman's decision on parenting has to be one of the most hypocritical stances in modern America. The same people care nada for the living as every single one of their political positions attest and yet they wax tragic over potential life but not the living. When nothing is required of you except a pretentious moral holier than thou sentiment, then of course you can condemn others. Preaching is just too easy.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-a-heartbeat-is-detectable-4.html#post3812286
http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/241999-abortion-rape-question-4.html#post5859215
http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-a-heartbeat-is-detectable-4.html#post3814184


"Abolition of a woman's right to abortion, when and if she wants it, amounts to compulsory maternity: a form of rape by the State." Edward Abbey
_