Stop calling Obama a Liberal. There's nothing Liberal about this dude.

O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

Exactly. He's operating inside the small space that was available to Carter (who deregulated Communications and Transportation) and Clinton (who deregulated finance) - that is, he's on the Right despite any desire he might have to move Left. Just like postwar conservatives were trapped inside a consensus for Big Government, the post-Reagan dems are trapped inside the neoliberal model of free trade/deregulation/privatization, which model gained momentum in the 70s and blossomed with Reagan. This is why ObamaCare leaves the private insurance market in place. A real Democrat would have broken up the unnecessary monopolists/parasites who sit between patient and doctor/hospital. Even fucking Adam Smith would have protested the non-competitive, anti-trust rentier class that dominates most large domestic sectors. A Democrat would have broken up the cable/internet providers which have divided much of the country into fixed no-compete zones (the result of which is a virtual monopoly whereby each provider can raise rates and decrease services without fear of being disciplined by competition). The post McGovern Left has shown no desire to disrupt the Reagan model, which put business in charge of government because, according to Reagan, they know best. Welcome to K Street and the Lobbying Industrial Complex.

And let's not overlook Obama's re-nomination of Bernanke, who is a Friedmanite. If Obama was anywhere near the left he would not have put an anti-Left guy in charge of the Fed.

What separates Obama is the four percentage points on the taxes of the upper-bracket. And he's also making moderate reforms to health care but his plan is based on the proposal put fourth by Bob Dole (which was created by a rightwing think tank to oppose HillaryCare). He also favors slightly more oversight of Wall Street, but he's much closer to Bush than anyone on the Left. FDR had the courage to stand up to the rentier class that had destroyed domestic markets. Obama mostly works for that class, like every other politician.
 
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Harry, I seriously think you need to check your meds.

why?....because i have the "gall" and "audacity" to criticize your party and Bush?.....well dont feel bad i do the same for the other side too....
No. Lots of us criticize the GOP and BUsh, even though we're Republicans.
You need to check your meds because a) your spelling and grammar have gone to shit, b) you sound like you're ranting incoherently, c) you post stuff that is demonstrably false, d) you see conspiracies everywhere.
Get help, dude.
if i see conspiracies everywhere it should not be hard for you to name a few?....now dont be like your brother Dean and run off to another thread....
 
O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

Exactly. He's operating inside the small space that was available to Carter (who deregulated Communications and Transportation) and Clinton (who deregulated finance) - that is, he's on the Right despite any desire he might have to move Left. Just like postwar conservatives were trapped inside a consensus for Big Government, the post-Reagan dems are trapped inside the neoliberal model of free trade/deregulation/privatization, which model gained momentum in the 70s and blossomed with Reagan. This is why ObamaCare leaves the private insurance market in place. A real Democrat would have broken up the unnecessary monopolists/parasites who sit between patient and doctor/hospital. Even fucking Adam Smith would have protested the non-competitive, anti-trust rentier class that dominates most large domestic sectors. A Democrat would have broken up the cable/internet providers which have divided much of the country into fixed no-compete zones (the result of which is a virtual monopoly whereby each provider can raise rates and decrease services without fear of being disciplined by competition). The post McGovern Left has shown no desire to disrupt the Reagan model, which put business in charge of government because, according to Reagan, they know best. Welcome to K Street and the Lobbying Industrial Complex.

And let's not overlook Obama's re-nomination of Bernanke, who is a Friedmanite. If Obama was anywhere near the left he would not have put an anti-Left guy in charge of the Fed.

What separates Obama is the four percentage points on the taxes of the upper-bracket. And he's also making moderate reforms to health care but his plan is based on the proposal put fourth by Bob Dole (which was created by a rightwing think tank to oppose HillaryCare). He also favors slightly more oversight of Wall Street, but he's much closer to Bush than anyone on the Left. FDR had the courage to stand up to the rentier class that had destroyed domestic markets. Obama mostly works for that class, like every other politician.

^ that

well put ;)
 
Well, he does have something to do with Liberalism but he's more Centrist. Like Bill Clinton. A president should be more moderate and I believe America agrees. Thus the rejection of wingnutty Republicans.

Sarah? Barack Obama is SO not Bill Clinton! When Clinton got a rebuke from the voters in HIS first mid-term elections after becoming President, he did the smart thing and moved to the center...when the same thing happened to Barry he didn't move an inch!

I'm sorry to be blunt with you but Bill Clinton was a great politician and Barack Obama is not.

I don't think it's you being blunt, I simply disagree with you. Both wives, Bill and Barack have Liberal wives but both men are Centrist. Now Hillary moved to the center when she was running last time but she is Liberal at heart.

How can you make that claim about Barack Obama? When he was in the US Senate he was named as the "most liberal Senator" because of his voting record. That's hardly a "Centrist". You mistake his inability to pass liberal legislation with trying to be a moderate. He WANTED to pass single payer healthcare...he WANTED to pass Card Check...he WANTED to pass Cap & Trade. He didn't because he lost control of the House in 2010. That hardly makes him a Centrist!
 
O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

Exactly. He's operating inside the small space that was available to Carter (who deregulated Communications and Transportation) and Clinton (who deregulated finance) - that is, he's on the Right despite any desire he might have to move Left. Just like postwar conservatives were trapped inside a consensus for Big Government, the post-Reagan dems are trapped inside the neoliberal model of free trade/deregulation/privatization, which model gained momentum in the 70s and blossomed with Reagan. This is why ObamaCare leaves the private insurance market in place. A real Democrat would have broken up the unnecessary monopolists/parasites who sit between patient and doctor/hospital. Even fucking Adam Smith would have protested the non-competitive, anti-trust rentier class that dominates most large domestic sectors. A Democrat would have broken up the cable/internet providers which have divided much of the country into fixed no-compete zones (the result of which is a virtual monopoly whereby each provider can raise rates and decrease services without fear of being disciplined by competition). The post McGovern Left has shown no desire to disrupt the Reagan model, which put business in charge of government because, according to Reagan, they know best. Welcome to K Street and the Lobbying Industrial Complex.

And let's not overlook Obama's re-nomination of Bernanke, who is a Friedmanite. If Obama was anywhere near the left he would not have put an anti-Left guy in charge of the Fed.

What separates Obama is the four percentage points on the taxes of the upper-bracket. And he's also making moderate reforms to health care but his plan is based on the proposal put fourth by Bob Dole (which was created by a rightwing think tank to oppose HillaryCare). He also favors slightly more oversight of Wall Street, but he's much closer to Bush than anyone on the Left. FDR had the courage to stand up to the rentier class that had destroyed domestic markets. Obama mostly works for that class, like every other politician.

Congratulations...that nonsense would have guaranteed you an A+ in most Political Science classes these days but all it is, is a litany of liberal talking points. Whenever anyone here starts bringing up "Neo" anything it's a sure sign that they're talking some Grade A bullshit. Dottie of course LOVED it...but then again...Dottie is impressed with vague notions and soaring rhetoric. It's why she LOVES Barack!
 
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why?....because i have the "gall" and "audacity" to criticize your party and Bush?.....well dont feel bad i do the same for the other side too....
No. Lots of us criticize the GOP and BUsh, even though we're Republicans.
You need to check your meds because a) your spelling and grammar have gone to shit, b) you sound like you're ranting incoherently, c) you post stuff that is demonstrably false, d) you see conspiracies everywhere.
Get help, dude.
if i see conspiracies everywhere it should not be hard for you to name a few?....now dont be like your brother Dean and run off to another thread....

I just did. All the conservatives on this board refuse to criticize Bush or the GOP.
SImply a lie.
Get help, dude.
 
Sarah? Barack Obama is SO not Bill Clinton! When Clinton got a rebuke from the voters in HIS first mid-term elections after becoming President, he did the smart thing and moved to the center...when the same thing happened to Barry he didn't move an inch!

I'm sorry to be blunt with you but Bill Clinton was a great politician and Barack Obama is not.

I don't think it's you being blunt, I simply disagree with you. Both wives, Bill and Barack have Liberal wives but both men are Centrist. Now Hillary moved to the center when she was running last time but she is Liberal at heart.

How can you make that claim about Barack Obama? When he was in the US Senate he was named as the "most liberal Senator" because of his voting record. That's hardly a "Centrist". You mistake his inability to pass liberal legislation with trying to be a moderate. He WANTED to pass single payer healthcare...he WANTED to pass Card Check...he WANTED to pass Cap & Trade. He didn't because he lost control of the House in 2010. That hardly makes him a Centrist!

So you think because he doesn't do everything Republicans want him to do he isn't a Centrist? This is a problem for you all, if you want your agenda, you're gonna have to win. I disagree with you, deal with it.

I and a lot of others wanted him to pass single payer too.
 
Obama is not a liberal. He is left of most liberals. He is a marxist collectivist and an america-hater.

the worst possible kind of person to be president.

but you voted for him, you deserve what he is doing to you.
 
No. Lots of us criticize the GOP and BUsh, even though we're Republicans.
You need to check your meds because a) your spelling and grammar have gone to shit, b) you sound like you're ranting incoherently, c) you post stuff that is demonstrably false, d) you see conspiracies everywhere.
Get help, dude.
if i see conspiracies everywhere it should not be hard for you to name a few?....now dont be like your brother Dean and run off to another thread....

I just did. All the conservatives on this board refuse to criticize Bush or the GOP.
SImply a lie.
Get help, dude.



is that what i said?....show me where i said ALL the Conservatives on this board refuse to criticize Bush or the GOP....ill wait for the proof.....
 
O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

He is still crucifying bankers. He wanted single payer but real moderate in his party and all from the other party rejected it.

He's so far left you need a telescope to locate him.
 
I don't think it's you being blunt, I simply disagree with you. Both wives, Bill and Barack have Liberal wives but both men are Centrist. Now Hillary moved to the center when she was running last time but she is Liberal at heart.

How can you make that claim about Barack Obama? When he was in the US Senate he was named as the "most liberal Senator" because of his voting record. That's hardly a "Centrist". You mistake his inability to pass liberal legislation with trying to be a moderate. He WANTED to pass single payer healthcare...he WANTED to pass Card Check...he WANTED to pass Cap & Trade. He didn't because he lost control of the House in 2010. That hardly makes him a Centrist!

So you think because he doesn't do everything Republicans want him to do he isn't a Centrist? This is a problem for you all, if you want your agenda, you're gonna have to win. I disagree with you, deal with it.

I and a lot of others wanted him to pass single payer too.

So let me ask a simple question, Sarah? Since you wanted single payer but got ObamaCare instead? Does that make you any less of a liberal?

Obviously it doesn't. Yet you make a giant leap of logic by stating that because Barack Obama didn't get what he wanted...single payer healthcare, Card Check, Cap & Trade, $6.00 a gallon gasoline and strict new EPA enforcement of greenhouse gas emissions...that he's a moderate? The reasons we didn't end up with all of those things is that Barry lost the House and couldn't ram through whatever he felt like. That WAS the GOP "winning" in 2010 which was what prevented Obama from pursuing the rest of his far left agenda.
 
Calling him a moderate under the circumstances makes about as much sense as saying that he's pro "Big Oil" because production of fossil fuels on State and privately controlled lands increased substantially under his Administration.
 
Ame®icano;8146368 said:
O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

He is still crucifying bankers. He wanted single payer but real moderate in his party and all from the other party rejected it.

He's so far left you need a telescope to locate him.

I don't remember Obama ever pushing for single payer after taking office. He put a blue dog senator who was in the pockets of the health insurance companies (Baucus), in charge of the ACA to begin with. How does giving bankers close to a trillion dollars with no strings attached and no investigations into their activities considered crucifying them? Look at his appointments. He kept Geithner and Summers on the payroll. That's not a crucifixion. You're aiming your telescope too far left. Swing it to right of center and you might locate Obama.
 
How can you make that claim about Barack Obama? When he was in the US Senate he was named as the "most liberal Senator" because of his voting record. That's hardly a "Centrist". You mistake his inability to pass liberal legislation with trying to be a moderate. He WANTED to pass single payer healthcare...he WANTED to pass Card Check...he WANTED to pass Cap & Trade. He didn't because he lost control of the House in 2010. That hardly makes him a Centrist!

So you think because he doesn't do everything Republicans want him to do he isn't a Centrist? This is a problem for you all, if you want your agenda, you're gonna have to win. I disagree with you, deal with it.

I and a lot of others wanted him to pass single payer too.

So let me ask a simple question, Sarah? Since you wanted single payer but got ObamaCare instead? Does that make you any less of a liberal?

Obviously it doesn't. Yet you make a giant leap of logic by stating that because Barack Obama didn't get what he wanted...single payer healthcare, Card Check, Cap & Trade, $6.00 a gallon gasoline and strict new EPA enforcement of greenhouse gas emissions...that he's a moderate? The reasons we didn't end up with all of those things is that Barry lost the House and couldn't ram through whatever he felt like. That WAS the GOP "winning" in 2010 which was what prevented Obama from pursuing the rest of his far left agenda.

How come barry didn't ram these things through the house when he had the house? He never even tried for minimum wage back then. I say not a liberal by any stretch.
 
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Ame®icano;8146368 said:
O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

He is still crucifying bankers. He wanted single payer but real moderate in his party and all from the other party rejected it.

He's so far left you need a telescope to locate him.

He's crucifying bankers? Hallelujah, this is the day I've been waiting for! Which bankers are being crucified?
 
So you think because he doesn't do everything Republicans want him to do he isn't a Centrist? This is a problem for you all, if you want your agenda, you're gonna have to win. I disagree with you, deal with it.

I and a lot of others wanted him to pass single payer too.

So let me ask a simple question, Sarah? Since you wanted single payer but got ObamaCare instead? Does that make you any less of a liberal?

Obviously it doesn't. Yet you make a giant leap of logic by stating that because Barack Obama didn't get what he wanted...single payer healthcare, Card Check, Cap & Trade, $6.00 a gallon gasoline and strict new EPA enforcement of greenhouse gas emissions...that he's a moderate? The reasons we didn't end up with all of those things is that Barry lost the House and couldn't ram through whatever he felt like. That WAS the GOP "winning" in 2010 which was what prevented Obama from pursuing the rest of his far left agenda.

How come barry didn't ram these things through the house when he had the house? He never even tried for minimum wage when he had the house. I say not a liberal by any stretch.

If you recall, Jason...the first two things on his agenda were the Obama Stimulus and ObamaCare. He got the stimulus he wanted fairly easily but ObamaCare was a hard sell with moderate DEMOCRATS who saw that it had glaring problems and wanted nothing to do with it. Barry didn't ram through the rest of his agenda because he was busy twisting arms to get enough votes to pass ObamaCare. Or have you forgotten the deals that he cut with Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieux of Louisiana?

Obama didn't push a higher minimum wage for one simple reason. It would have hurt jobs at a time when his own stimulus was cratering in spectacular fashion! That was about the time that we heard the phrase "jobs created or saved".
 
Ame®icano;8146368 said:
O'Bama is a moderate. Otherwise he would have crucified teh banksters & insisted on single-payer HC

He is still crucifying bankers. He wanted single payer but real moderate in his party and all from the other party rejected it.

He's so far left you need a telescope to locate him.

He's crucifying bankers? Hallelujah, this is the day I've been waiting for! Which bankers are being crucified?

So he doesn't calling them "fat cats", and there are no lawsuits against banks, right?
 
Ame®icano;8146750 said:
Ame®icano;8146368 said:
He is still crucifying bankers. He wanted single payer but real moderate in his party and all from the other party rejected it.

He's so far left you need a telescope to locate him.

He's crucifying bankers? Hallelujah, this is the day I've been waiting for! Which bankers are being crucified?

So he doesn't calling them "fat cats", and there are no lawsuits against banks, right?

If he's doing anything that would amount to more than a minor inconvenience and slightly bruised ego, I haven't heard about it.
 
How can you make that claim about Barack Obama? When he was in the US Senate he was named as the "most liberal Senator" because of his voting record. That's hardly a "Centrist". You mistake his inability to pass liberal legislation with trying to be a moderate. He WANTED to pass single payer healthcare...he WANTED to pass Card Check...he WANTED to pass Cap & Trade. He didn't because he lost control of the House in 2010. That hardly makes him a Centrist!

So you think because he doesn't do everything Republicans want him to do he isn't a Centrist? This is a problem for you all, if you want your agenda, you're gonna have to win. I disagree with you, deal with it.

I and a lot of others wanted him to pass single payer too.

So let me ask a simple question, Sarah? Since you wanted single payer but got ObamaCare instead? Does that make you any less of a liberal?

Obviously it doesn't. Yet you make a giant leap of logic by stating that because Barack Obama didn't get what he wanted...single payer healthcare, Card Check, Cap & Trade, $6.00 a gallon gasoline and strict new EPA enforcement of greenhouse gas emissions...that he's a moderate? The reasons we didn't end up with all of those things is that Barry lost the House and couldn't ram through whatever he felt like. That WAS the GOP "winning" in 2010 which was what prevented Obama from pursuing the rest of his far left agenda.

I don't consider myself a Liberal but I don't find the label offensive. I'm just not that. I consider myself a pro business Democrat. I voted for Hillary in the primary in 2008 but I knew I would vote for either who made it to the general.

Obamacare is good for businesses, Walmart for example is doing commercials on it now. I've seen several where they quote $40 premiums and also a policy called Humana Walmart.

You're not thinking clearly on this. Too much rhetorical water gone under the bridge. You're going to have to wait to see how it plays out. I take your predictions with a grain of salt and I don't intend to give up on the Democrats.

They're just smarter than you guys.
 
Ame®icano;8146750 said:
Ame®icano;8146368 said:
He is still crucifying bankers. He wanted single payer but real moderate in his party and all from the other party rejected it.

He's so far left you need a telescope to locate him.

He's crucifying bankers? Hallelujah, this is the day I've been waiting for! Which bankers are being crucified?

So he doesn't calling them "fat cats", and there are no lawsuits against banks, right?

Seriously..aside from Maddoff?

Which "fat cat" is cooling his heels in the clink?

It's really JUST NOW, anything is being done. And what's being done is extremely mild.

Jamie Dimon, lost what? 9 billion?

Did his bonus even get affected?

:lol:
 

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