Supreme Court Allows Sandy Hook Families' Case Against Remington Arms To Proceed

[JoeB131]

So, you believe the wp. No surprise there. You also believed their Russia lies as well.
And there is nothing racist about wanting people to follow the law. Only in your warped mind, as anything having to do with Reps, you must accuse them of racism to hopedully score brownie points. Doesn’t work anymore. Overplayed.

Oh, I think most people can see Trump's racism for what it is... It's too bad the rest of the GOP signed onto it.

True Story, John McCain and George W. Bush had a sensible solution that would have provided greater border security while still doing right by the undocumented immigrants already here. The Nativists shut it down.

Back to the point. Um, yeah, actually, most Asylum Seekers go to their hearings because that's the only way they are going to get residency. I mean, some get confused and don't follow directions in a language they don't understand, I guess... but the reality- they want to do this the right way.

How many that don’t show up are too many for you? I am going to apologize, if you are talking only asylum cases, yes that 90% figure appears to be incorrect. What the actual figure is appears to be much less.

First, I don't really care how many do or don't show up. The reason why we have illegals at ALL is because rich white people hire them. Crack down on the people hiring them, the problem kind of solves itself.

It actually wasn't much of a problem, the number of people trying to cross the border in 2017 was only 20% of what it was in 2000, when it peaked. Then Trump got all you dumb racists all worked up, and started screwing with a well oiled machine, and a lot of people tried to break in before they shut the doors. Dumb. Dumb dumb.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

What does any of this have to do with Trump?

I’ve been going over the DOJ report and of all the witnesses that testified that Brown did not have his hands up, only one was white. In fact, even some of those who feel the shooting was not justified say that Brown never had his hands up. In addition, one of the black witnesses who testified that the shooting was justified is actually an ex con and even has a son currently in prison.

Check it out.. From the initial witness interviews. 18 people said he had his hands up. only two said he didn't.

To begin with, this list was compiled within a month of the shooting but the official DOJ report was published seven months later at the completion of the investigation.
Secondly, none of the witnesses on this list are in the DOJ report. The DOJ report omitted testimony from those whose testimony did not jibe with forensic evidence. In other words, actual forensic evidence such as location of DNA and blood spots directly contradicted their version of events.
Thirdly, many testimonies were omitted because they were not consistent from one telling to the next, i.e., they couldn’t keep their shit straight.

The report also states that a number of witnesses refused to come forward for fear of reprisal from the community and that some who did give a statement, did so only under condition of anonymity for the same reason.

Yes, anonymous witnesses... they are always credible.

They’re anonymous to us, not to the FBI or DOJ. They know who these people are. Their identities are kept confidential to protect their privacy. Idiot.

Look, this was a massive white-wash by Law Enforcement from the get-go. And, no, I don't take what the DOJ did very seriously, because they were trying to placate law enforcement as well. That's the problem I always had with Obama. He talked big smack,but backed down when confronted.

The evidence is right there in the report: Wilson had bruising on his face and jaw which means Brown attacked him in his cruiser.
Brown’s friend claimed Wilson had Brown by the neck but there were no markings or bruising on Brown’s neck.
Brown had started to walk away after the initial scuffle in the cruiser but, according to testimony, he stopped and looked at his bloody hand and realized he had been shot. He then turned back around and advanced on Wilson again because he was apparently enraged that he had been shot.
He was advancing on Wilson back in the direction of the cruiser and Wilson ordered him to stop. Wilson had his gun drawn but pointed down at his side. When Brown refused to stop is when Wilson raised his gun and started shooting.

There was blood on the pavement where Brown had stopped to look at his hand but he ultimately was shot and fell some feet closer to the cruiser. Meaning, he was moving towards Wilson when he was shot and all the frontal bullet entry wounds corroborate this.

Meaning, when we falsely accuse enough white cops, this shit will come to an end.

I’m not sitting here saying there are no unjustified shootings, there are. But it serves no one to assume before any inquiry or investigation that every shooting is unjustified. It also serves no one to assume that every inquiry that clears the officer is a cover up.

You can’t have it both ways; if you want more rigorous investigations of these shootings, you’re going to have to come to grips with the fact that some of these investigations will clear the officer and rule the shooting justified.

Buddy, there are 900 cop shooting civilians a year. As opposed to the UK, where they only have 2-5 a year.

Irrelevant. This is not justification for assuming the cop is in the wrong in every shooting.

When a body is 147 feet away from the police car and it has EIGHT bullet holes in it, and the guy claims "He was going for my gun, really!" despite 18 witnesses saying, "The kid had his hands up!" then, um, yeah, it smells like a rat, it's probably a rat.

Brown went for his gun while Wilson was still in the cruiser and Brown had been shot once in the hand during this scuffle. Brown started to run away, Wilson got out of the cruiser and radioed for backup. After doing this, he then started going after Brown, telling him to stop. At some point while Wilson is going after him, Brown stopped, looked at his bleeding hand, turned around and started advancing back in Wilson’s direction. Wilson ordered Brown to stop; Brown did not stop; Wilson fired.

This is why Brown was 147 feet from the cruiser when he was shot. It doesn’t negate the fact that he had turned around at some point and moved toward Wilson.

The deadly force came after Brown assaulted him in the cruiser and then later turning around and charging him. What’s more, Wilson had heard the call about the convenience store robbery but is not why he confronted Brown and his friend. He confronted them because the idiots were walking down the middle of the street and a number of vehicles had already had to swerve to miss them.

This is why I don't believe a fucking thing Wilson had to say. His story had too many contradictions. He claims both that he was calling them out for jaywalking, and then Brown attacked him, and then he claimed that he was responding to the "robbery" (not really) which the owner didn't call in. If he sincerely suspected these two black kids were the perps, he was showing far too little caution. If he didn't this was just another case of the Ferguson PD hassling black folks for the fun of it.

Um, no. As I already explained, Wilson had heard the call about the robbery but he confronted Brown and his friend for walking down the middle of the street. While he was still in the cruiser and confronting them is when he noticed the cigarillos in Brown’s hand.
Wilson then tried to exit the cruiser but Brown had become belligerent and closed the cruiser door on Wilson before he could get out and then attacked him.

And yes, the store owner did in fact call in the robbery. I don’t know where you got that he didn’t. It’s in the DOJ report that he had called the cops. Two other officers arrived at the store to question the store owner. They got the description of the two men from the store owner and then radioed that in and Wilson heard it.
Wilson had just been finishing up with a call he was on that involved a sick baby. When he finished there he radioed the two officers at the store to ask if they needed help. They told Wilson that the suspects had “disappeared into the woodwork”.

The radio dispatch transcripts prove that Wilson knew of the store robbery before he encountered Brown.

Also, it’s important to point out two things: 1) Toxicology reports prove that Brown was stoned at the time. To such a degree that he could have been considered impaired, depending on how his body dealt with it.
2) The friend that was with Brown during the robbery and the shooting testified that Brown was exhibiting behavior that was out of character for him that day.

Just like in the Sandmann case, almost nothing you believe about it is true.

Just like in teh Sandman Case, you just LOVE to be gaslighted as long as people of color are involved.

Gaslighted how? Everything I’ve told you about the Sandmann case is established fact that is proven by the video that you refuse to watch.
On the other hand, all you’ve given me is opinions based on falsehoods and things that have nothing to do with the incident.

And, I have people of color in my family that I care deeply about. So cut the fucking “people of color” bullshit you racist prick. Stop using them as props in your moral charade.

 

[JoeB131]

To begin with, this list was compiled within a month of the shooting but the official DOJ report was published seven months later at the completion of the investigation.

Seven months to complete a whitewash... That was hard work.

Secondly, none of the witnesses on this list are in the DOJ report. The DOJ report omitted testimony from those whose testimony did not jibe with forensic evidence. In other words, actual forensic evidence such as location of DNA and blood spots directly contradicted their version of events.

OOOOOH, "DNA". Really? Not sure how DNA proved he had his hands up, but whatever.

Thirdly, many testimonies were omitted because they were not consistent from one telling to the next, i.e., they couldn’t keep their shit straight.

In short, didn't tell the story they wanted to hear. Got it.

They’re anonymous to us, not to the FBI or DOJ. They know who these people are. Their identities are kept confidential to protect their privacy. Idiot.

Yeah, to heck with those constitutional rights to challenge witnesses. All that was missing was the fucking Noose.

The evidence is right there in the report: Wilson had bruising on his face and jaw which means Brown attacked him in his cruiser.

Again, nobody is disputing he got an owie in his cruiser. It was when he chased the kid, the kid put his hands up , and he shot him SIX MORE TIMES!!!!

Brown’s friend claimed Wilson had Brown by the neck but there were no markings or bruising on Brown’s neck.

Irrelevant. Some people don't bruise easily, and bruises don't rise when you are like- dead. Usually it takes a while for bruises to show up.

Brown had started to walk away after the initial scuffle in the cruiser but, according to testimony, he stopped and looked at his bloody hand and realized he had been shot. He then turned back around and advanced on Wilson again because he was apparently enraged that he had been shot.

Or he turned around because the cop said, "Stop" and put his hands up, and Officer Nazi shot him six more times.

Hey, fun question. If Darren Wilson is such a super cop, how come he isn't working as a police officer? I mean, like anywhere in the country? I mean, if he was totally vindicated, he should have gotten his job back, right? You see, that's what happens with cops in JUSTIFIED shootings.

He was advancing on Wilson back in the direction of the cruiser and Wilson ordered him to stop. Wilson had his gun drawn but pointed down at his side. When Brown refused to stop is when Wilson raised his gun and started shooting.

Again- SIX FUCKING TIMES> I don't believe a fucking thing Darren Wilson says.

There was blood on the pavement where Brown had stopped to look at his hand but he ultimately was shot and fell some feet closer to the cruiser. Meaning, he was moving towards Wilson when he was shot and all the frontal bullet entry wounds corroborate this.

Or that he was giving up and got shot six more times.

Irrelevant. This is not justification for assuming the cop is in the wrong in every shooting.

Why not? Frankly, that's EXACTLY what they do when a civilian shoots someone. 16000 gun homicides a year, only 200 are ruled as "Justified" shootings by civilians.

We have 900 police shootings a year in this country, only a handful get someone fired. Even when one of these thugs gets convicted, it's like for minimal time. (Van Dyke got 7 years, Guyger got 10, etc.)

Brown went for his gun while Wilson was still in the cruiser and Brown had been shot once in the hand during this scuffle. Brown started to run away, Wilson got out of the cruiser and radioed for backup. After doing this, he then started going after Brown, telling him to stop. At some point while Wilson is going after him, Brown stopped, looked at his bleeding hand, turned around and started advancing back in Wilson’s direction. Wilson ordered Brown to stop; Brown did not stop; Wilson fired.

Still makes no sense. If he shot you, you keep running, unless you think he's going to shoot you again, in which case you put your hands up.

This is why Brown was 147 feet from the cruiser when he was shot. It doesn’t negate the fact that he had turned around at some point and moved toward Wilson.

Again, according to Wilson. According to 18 witnesses, he had his hands up.

Um, no. As I already explained, Wilson had heard the call about the robbery but he confronted Brown and his friend for walking down the middle of the street. While he was still in the cruiser and confronting them is when he noticed the cigarillos in Brown’s hand.

OH MY GOD< he was JAYWALKING WHILE BLACK. Totally shoot that kid!

Also, it’s important to point out two things: 1) Toxicology reports prove that Brown was stoned at the time. To such a degree that he could have been considered impaired, depending on how his body dealt with it.

Uh, he was smoking pot. Pot makes you mellow, not aggressive. But yeah, he was black and smoking pot. He totally NEEDED TO DIE!!!

And, I have people of color in my family that I care deeply about. So cut the fucking “people of color” bullshit you racist prick. Stop using them as props in your moral charade.

I'll be more impressed when you have compassion for people of color that you don't know.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

To begin with, this list was compiled within a month of the shooting but the official DOJ report was published seven months later at the completion of the investigation.

Seven months to complete a whitewash... That was hard work.

Have you read the report? What am I talking about, of course you haven’t.

Secondly, none of the witnesses on this list are in the DOJ report. The DOJ report omitted testimony from those whose testimony did not jibe with forensic evidence. In other words, actual forensic evidence such as location of DNA and blood spots directly contradicted their version of events.

OOOOOH, "DNA". Really? Not sure how DNA proved he had his hands up, but whatever.

I didn’t say the DNA proved he didn’t have his hands up.

Thirdly, many testimonies were omitted because they were not consistent from one telling to the next, i.e., they couldn’t keep their shit straight.

In short, didn't tell the story they wanted to hear. Got it.

In short, their testimonies were not consistent. Witnesses were questioned by Ferguson police, the FBI and the DOJ. Some of these witnesses gave different testimony to the FBI than what they told police or the DOJ.

Read the report.

They’re anonymous to us, not to the FBI or DOJ. They know who these people are. Their identities are kept confidential to protect their privacy. Idiot.

Yeah, to heck with those constitutional rights to challenge witnesses. All that was missing was the fucking Noose.

Who’s going to challenge, you? I’m sure someone can challenge a witness if they have a legitimate reason to but they’re not going to release witness names to the likes of you just because you’re curious.

The evidence is right there in the report: Wilson had bruising on his face and jaw which means Brown attacked him in his cruiser.

Again, nobody is disputing he got an owie in his cruiser. It was when he chased the kid, the kid put his hands up , and he shot him SIX MORE TIMES!!!!

Whether he put his hands up or not is irrelevant; he was moving on Wilson and would not stop when Wilson told him to. Forensic evidence proves this.

Brown’s friend claimed Wilson had Brown by the neck but there were no markings or bruising on Brown’s neck.

Irrelevant. Some people don't bruise easily, and bruises don't rise when you are like- dead. Usually it takes a while for bruises to show up.

There were no markings of any kind, bruises or otherwise.

Brown had started to walk away after the initial scuffle in the cruiser but, according to testimony, he stopped and looked at his bloody hand and realized he had been shot. He then turned back around and advanced on Wilson again because he was apparently enraged that he had been shot.

Or he turned around because the cop said, "Stop" and put his hands up, and Officer Nazi shot him six more times.

Nope. As has already been explained to you, the spot in the road where he was standing with his bleeding hand was farther away from the cruiser than where he fell. Meaning, he had moved back in the direction of the cruiser and Wilson when he was shot.

Hey, fun question. If Darren Wilson is such a super cop,

Who said he was a super cop?

how come he isn't working as a police officer? I mean, like anywhere in the country? I mean, if he was totally vindicated, he should have gotten his job back, right? You see, that's what happens with cops in JUSTIFIED shootings.

Find him and ask him.

He was advancing on Wilson back in the direction of the cruiser and Wilson ordered him to stop. Wilson had his gun drawn but pointed down at his side. When Brown refused to stop is when Wilson raised his gun and started shooting.

Again- SIX FUCKING TIMES> I don't believe a fucking thing Darren Wilson says.

Yeah, SIX FUCKING TIMES - because the asshole wouldn’t stop.

There was blood on the pavement where Brown had stopped to look at his hand but he ultimately was shot and fell some feet closer to the cruiser. Meaning, he was moving towards Wilson when he was shot and all the frontal bullet entry wounds corroborate this.

Or that he was giving up and got shot six more times.

If he was giving up then he should have stayed where he was.

Irrelevant. This is not justification for assuming the cop is in the wrong in every shooting.

Why not? Frankly, that's EXACTLY what they do when a civilian shoots someone. 16000 gun homicides a year, only 200 are ruled as "Justified" shootings by civilians.

Alright then, assume every shooting is unjustified since that’s what you’ll do anyway. Just don’t bitch about it if the officer is exonerated on occasion.

We have 900 police shootings a year in this country, only a handful get someone fired. Even when one of these thugs gets convicted, it's like for minimal time. (Van Dyke got 7 years, Guyger got 10, etc.)

Maybe because only a handful are unjustified.

Brown went for his gun while Wilson was still in the cruiser and Brown had been shot once in the hand during this scuffle. Brown started to run away, Wilson got out of the cruiser and radioed for backup. After doing this, he then started going after Brown, telling him to stop. At some point while Wilson is going after him, Brown stopped, looked at his bleeding hand, turned around and started advancing back in Wilson’s direction. Wilson ordered Brown to stop; Brown did not stop; Wilson fired.

Still makes no sense. If he shot you, you keep running, unless you think he's going to shoot you again, in which case you put your hands up.

He was stoned.

This is why Brown was 147 feet from the cruiser when he was shot. It doesn’t negate the fact that he had turned around at some point and moved toward Wilson.

Again, according to Wilson. According to 18 witnesses, he had his hands up.

Irrelevant. He was moving towards Wilson and would not stop when told to.

Um, no. As I already explained, Wilson had heard the call about the robbery but he confronted Brown and his friend for walking down the middle of the street. While he was still in the cruiser and confronting them is when he noticed the cigarillos in Brown’s hand.

OH MY GOD< he was JAYWALKING WHILE BLACK. Totally shoot that kid!

He wasn’t shot for jaywalking.

Also, it’s important to point out two things: 1) Toxicology reports prove that Brown was stoned at the time. To such a degree that he could have been considered impaired, depending on how his body dealt with it.

Uh, he was smoking pot. Pot makes you mellow, not aggressive. But yeah, he was black and smoking pot. He totally NEEDED TO DIE!!!

He wasn’t shot for being stoned and Wilson didn’t know he was anyway.

And, I have people of color in my family that I care deeply about. So cut the fucking “people of color” bullshit you racist prick. Stop using them as props in your moral charade.

I'll be more impressed when you have compassion for people of color that you don't know.

I have compassion for people who respect our laws and borders and don’t flout liberal indifference to those laws.

 

[JoeB131]

Have you read the report? What am I talking about, of course you haven’t.

Why should I? The minute they started trying to gaslight us, I was done.

Hey, here's the simple thing. Dead kid. No weapon. Eight Bullet holes in him. Do the fucking math.

Maybe because only a handful are unjustified.

Again, British cops only shoot a couple people a year. In Japan, not only are police shootings unheard of, it's a scandal if the cops even unholster their weapons. Um, yeah, the reason why Neil's Puma joke was so funny is we all know that shit happens.

Irrelevant. He was moving towards Wilson and would not stop when told to.

Cops need a better standard for using deadly force on an unarmed person.

He wasn’t shot for being stoned and Wilson didn’t know he was anyway.

Wow, so they shot him for a) Jaywalking b) shoplifting, c) smoking a little weed. Shit, good thing he wasn't littering.

I have compassion for people who respect our laws and borders and don’t flout liberal indifference to those laws.

One more time.. when we go after the rich WHITE people who hire them, then I'll take it seriously.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Have you read the report? What am I talking about, of course you haven’t.

Why should I? The minute they started trying to gaslight us, I was done.

Meaning, the minute they disproved your preconceived notion that Wilson murdered Brown, you were done.

Hey, here's the simple thing. Dead kid. No weapon. Eight Bullet holes in him. Do the fucking math.

Hey, here’s the simple thing: Rob a convenience store, attack an officer unprovoked, try to take his weapon and then charge the officer after being told to stop. Dead kid. Do the fucking math.

Another thing, Wilson didn’t know if Brown was armed or not and while Brown was charging him, it looked like he was reaching for something at his waist. This is part of the reasonWilson shot him.

Maybe because only a handful are unjustified.

Again, British cops only shoot a couple people a year. In Japan, not only are police shootings unheard of, it's a scandal if the cops even unholster their weapons. Um, yeah, the reason why Neil's Puma joke was so funny is we all know that shit happens.

Yeah, and thanks to Steinberg and others like him contributing to anti-cop sentiment, an officer in Baltimore the other day was surrounded by a mob and kicked and assaulted while performing an arrest.

Congratulations.

Irrelevant. He was moving towards Wilson and would not stop when told to.

Cops need a better standard for using deadly force on an unarmed person.

First, the officer needs to know if the person is unarmed or not. If time and circumstances permit this, then use the necessary physical force to subdue the suspect.
However, if circumstances do not afford the officer the time to make this determination, the only thing to do at that point is proceed on the assumption that the suspect is armed. Err on the side of caution.

Wilson never had the opportunity to make this determination. As soon as he tried to exit the cruiser, Brown attacked him. The second Brown did that, his chances of surviving the encounter dropped about fifty percent.

Short of just backing down and complying with Wilson’s command or just continuing to run away, his life was pretty much forfeit at that point.

He wasn’t shot for being stoned and Wilson didn’t know he was anyway.

Wow, so they shot him for a) Jaywalking b) shoplifting, c) smoking a little weed. Shit, good thing he wasn't littering.

He wasn’t shot for any of those things. And it wasn’t shoplifting, it was unarmed robbery.

I have compassion for people who respect our laws and borders and don’t flout liberal indifference to those laws.

One more time.. when we go after the rich WHITE people who hire them, then I'll take it seriously.

No you won’t. The “little brown people” are your props and you’re not going to give them up as long as you can use them against whites, rich people and conservatives, no matter how many rich whites they indict.

I know damn well that if they manage to drastically cut down on the hiring of illegals, they’ll still be coming here, conservatives will still complain and you’ll still be calling them racist.

For people like you, ending racism is not the goal. Fighting racism has become a goal unto itself. You would be lost and rudderless without someone to feel morally superior to.

 

[JoeB131]

Meaning, the minute they disproved your preconceived notion that Wilson murdered Brown, you were done.

No, the minute they started in with, "Forget everything you've heard up to this point, we don't want to seem like we are justifying the riots!" Which is pretty much what they did.

Hey, here’s the simple thing: Rob a convenience store, attack an officer unprovoked, try to take his weapon and then charge the officer after being told to stop. Dead kid. Do the fucking math.

None of those things justify lethal force. And again, don't really believe anything Wilson said.

Jason Van Dyke claimed LaQuan McDonald was coming right for him. The CPD even tried to intimidate witnesses who complained. Then the tape showed up.

Did I also mention Darren Wilson was fired from his previous job? Why? Because the police force he was on was so corrupt the town disbanded it and asked the St. Louis PD to take over.

We can also add, the Ferguson PD/DA edited the tape to leave out the part where store employees traded pot for cigarellos some hours earlier.

Another thing, Wilson didn’t know if Brown was armed or not and while Brown was charging him, it looked like he was reaching for something at his waist. This is part of the reasonWilson shot him.

Yeah, we've heard that one before. He was totally reaching for something. NO really!!! Ignore those 18 witnesses who said he had his hands up. Take my word for it.

Yeah, and thanks to Steinberg and others like him contributing to anti-cop sentiment, an officer in Baltimore the other day was surrounded by a mob and kicked and assaulted while performing an arrest.

Yes, it was because they read that column by Steinberg that he wrote in another city 12 years ago. Not because oh, the cops murdered Freddie Gray and no one was held accountable.

First, the officer needs to know if the person is unarmed or not. If time and circumstances permit this, then use the necessary physical force to subdue the suspect.
However, if circumstances do not afford the officer the time to make this determination, the only thing to do at that point is proceed on the assumption that the suspect is armed. Err on the side of caution.

Nope. You shoot an unarmed kid, you go to prison. Done.

Wilson never had the opportunity to make this determination. As soon as he tried to exit the cruiser, Brown attacked him. The second Brown did that, his chances of surviving the encounter dropped about fifty percent.

Again, when you hire corrupt cops, yes, your chances of being murdered by one increases quite a bit.

Short of just backing down and complying with Wilson’s command or just continuing to run away, his life was pretty much forfeit at that point.

Again, a whole lot of things Wilson could have done to de-escalate the situation. He could have withdrawn and waited for backup. He could have engaged the kid using his nightstick. But nope, just start shooting, even if he has his hands up. Because he was a scary negro and he pissed you off.

He wasn’t shot for any of those things. And it wasn’t shoplifting, it was unarmed robbery.

No, actually it was a dispute over a deal he made with the store staff.

No you won’t. The “little brown people” are your props and you’re not going to give them up as long as you can use them against whites, rich people and conservatives, no matter how many rich whites they indict.

Well, let's indict a few, and let's see. Doesn't help when Trump gives pardons to people who hire them.

I know damn well that if they manage to drastically cut down on the hiring of illegals, they’ll still be coming here, conservatives will still complain and you’ll still be calling them racist.

Why would they come here if there are no jobs? The reality is that because of E-Verify and other enforcement, the number of people trying to cross the border dropped from 1 million in 2000 to less than 300,000 in 2017. There was a jump after Trump started screaming about walls and shit, but that was only because people panicked and tried to get in under the wire.

For people like you, ending racism is not the goal. Fighting racism has become a goal unto itself. You would be lost and rudderless without someone to feel morally superior to.

Naw, I'll always feel morally superior to the inbred, bible thumping morons who get tricked by the rich. The scariest thing will be when all the dumb-ass white trash finally figure out it isn't the undocumented worker or the poor black that is his enemy, it's the rich white guy in the corner office who is thinking up new ways to screw him.

 

[John Hazelwood]

it is a fact that not a single time in human history has a gun killed a person

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Meaning, the minute they disproved your preconceived notion that Wilson murdered Brown, you were done.

No, the minute they started in with, "Forget everything you've heard up to this point, we don't want to seem like we are justifying the riots!" Which is pretty much what they did.

When did they say this?

Hey, here’s the simple thing: Rob a convenience store, attack an officer unprovoked, try to take his weapon and then charge the officer after being told to stop. Dead kid. Do the fucking math.

None of those things justify lethal force. And again, don't really believe anything Wilson said.

Actually, it does justify lethal force if the officer does not know if the suspect is armed or not.

I don’t know why you have such an aversion to holding people accountable for their actions but Brown is entirely responsible for everything that happened that day.

He attacked an officer unprovoked, tried to take the officer’s gun and then charged at the officer after being ordered to stop.

A question: In your opinion, what could Brown have done or not done to avoid what happened?

Jason Van Dyke claimed LaQuan McDonald was coming right for him. The CPD even tried to intimidate witnesses who complained. Then the tape showed up.

Totally unrelated case.

Did I also mention Darren Wilson was fired from his previous job? Why? Because the police force he was on was so corrupt the town disbanded it and asked the St. Louis PD to take over.

To begin with, Wilson was not fired, he was given a position at the city jail. Most of the other officers were let go.
Secondly, there’s nothing to indicate that Wilson was part of the problem or part of the reason for the closure, In fact, what ultimately prompted the closure was another officer shooting at a vehicle’s tires to stop it when there was a child inside.
Third, Wilson had only been on the force for two years at that point.

We can also add, the Ferguson PD/DA edited the tape to leave out the part where store employees traded pot for cigarellos some hours earlier.

And? The store owner was not present during this alleged transaction and knew nothing about it. All he knew was that this punk swiped cigarillos from his store.

But this supposed marijuana-for-cigarillos story raises a few questions. 1) Why was the deal not completed and the cigarillos not given to Brown at that time? 2) Why would Brown leave the dope at the store if the deal was not completed? 3) Wouldn’t it have been wiser for Brown to just take back the dope that belonged to him rather than steal cigarillos that didn’t?

Another thing, Wilson didn’t know if Brown was armed or not and while Brown was charging him, it looked like he was reaching for something at his waist. This is part of the reasonWilson shot him.

Yeah, we've heard that one before. He was totally reaching for something. NO really!!! Ignore those 18 witnesses who said he had his hands up. Take my word for it.

It’s entirely possible that Brown had raised his hands. However, given what we know for a fact according to forensic evidence, it’s likely he raised his hands to about waist level to look at the gunshot injury. Did he raise his hands over his head in submission? Given what had transpired up to this point - i.e., attacking the officer - unlikely.

Yeah, and thanks to Steinberg and others like him contributing to anti-cop sentiment, an officer in Baltimore the other day was surrounded by a mob and kicked and assaulted while performing an arrest.

Yes, it was because they read that column by Steinberg that he wrote in another city 12 years ago. Not because oh, the cops murdered Freddie Gray and no one was held accountable.

Exactly. People promote anti-cop sentiment because of a few Freddy Grays type cases.

Frustration, anger and resentment are understandable. Pushing a narrative that depicts all cops as racist is not. Sooner or later good cops are going to suffer. And some have.

First, the officer needs to know if the person is unarmed or not. If time and circumstances permit this, then use the necessary physical force to subdue the suspect.
However, if circumstances do not afford the officer the time to make this determination, the only thing to do at that point is proceed on the assumption that the suspect is armed. Err on the side of caution.

Nope. You shoot an unarmed kid, you go to prison. Done.

Fortunately it’s not up to clowns like you who’ve never been threatened by a suspect who may or may not be armed and don’t have to face this possibility every day.

If I was an officer and faced with a similar situation where I didn’t know if the suspect was armed or not and he’s threatening me; if it ensures that I get home to my family, you’re fuckin’-A right I’m shooting.

Wilson never had the opportunity to make this determination. As soon as he tried to exit the cruiser, Brown attacked him. The second Brown did that, his chances of surviving the encounter dropped about fifty percent.

Again, when you hire corrupt cops, yes, your chances of being murdered by one increases quite a bit.

Deflection. Corrupt cops or no, what Brown did was infinitely and colossally stupid.

Short of just backing down and complying with Wilson’s command or just continuing to run away, his life was pretty much forfeit at that point.

Again, a whole lot of things Wilson could have done to de-escalate the situation. He could have withdrawn and waited for backup. He could have engaged the kid using his nightstick. But nope, just start shooting, even if he has his hands up. Because he was a scary negro and he pissed you off.

1) His hands weren’t up. 2) Brown was charging him. I don’t know about you, but I’m not waiting minutes for backup when a guy that outweighs me by a hundred pounds is going to attack me in seconds.

He wasn’t shot for any of those things. And it wasn’t shoplifting, it was unarmed robbery.

No, actually it was a dispute over a deal he made with the store staff.

An illegal deal that the store employees were not authorized to make. The owner had no part in it nor was he aware of it.

No you won’t. The “little brown people” are your props and you’re not going to give them up as long as you can use them against whites, rich people and conservatives, no matter how many rich whites they indict.

Well, let's indict a few, and let's see. Doesn't help when Trump gives pardons to people who hire them.

To what are you referring?

I know damn well that if they manage to drastically cut down on the hiring of illegals, they’ll still be coming here, conservatives will still complain and you’ll still be calling them racist.

Why would they come here if there are no jobs? The reality is that because of E-Verify and other enforcement, the number of people trying to cross the border dropped from 1 million in 2000 to less than 300,000 in 2017. There was a jump after Trump started screaming about walls and shit, but that was only because people panicked and tried to get in under the wire.

And I’ll bet you regard these measures as racist, don’t you?

For people like you, ending racism is not the goal. Fighting racism has become a goal unto itself. You would be lost and rudderless without someone to feel morally superior to.

Naw, I'll always feel morally superior to the inbred, bible thumping morons who get tricked by the rich. The scariest thing will be when all the dumb-ass white trash finally figure out it isn't the undocumented worker or the poor black that is his enemy, it's the rich white guy in the corner office who is thinking up new ways to screw him.

.
Exactly. You’ll “always feel morally superior to...”

It’s a charade. What you’re doing is the exact same moral posturing that people like you have always hated about Christians.

Don’t just try to eradicate racism for its practical and societal benefits, let everyone know you’re against racism so you’ll be accepted by the group and looked up to by people of color and little brown people.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, it does justify lethal force if the officer does not know if the suspect is armed or not.

Which is why we need to change those rules...

We have too many trigger happy cops out there shooting kids playing with toys or during bullshit traffic stops.

And I’ll bet you regard these measures as racist, don’t you?

E verify is fine. I'd probably go a step further and create a national ID card with biometrics to prevent all sorts of identity theft. Of course, another reason why undocumented immigration and border crossings declined to non-crisis levels was because economic conditions improved in Mexico to where people didn't need to cross the border to find jobs. The real problem, of course, is that the employers who are hiring illegals are KNOWINGLY hiring them. Those are the folks we need to go after, not throwing kids into concentration camps to make racist fucks like you happy.

An illegal deal that the store employees were not authorized to make. The owner had no part in it nor was he aware of it.

Point was, it put the whole "Strong Arm Robbery" in a different light. Odd the cops hid that from the public for nearly a year when they put out the slow-motion tape of the store owner getting pushed like it was something sinister.

1) His hands weren’t up. 2) Brown was charging him. I don’t know about you, but I’m not waiting minutes for backup when a guy that outweighs me by a hundred pounds is going to attack me in seconds.

He was also 147 feet away and overweight. He could have easily withdrawn back to his cruiser. But he was going make that boy pay!!!!

Exactly. People promote anti-cop sentiment because of a few Freddy Grays type cases.

Frustration, anger and resentment are understandable. Pushing a narrative that depicts all cops as racist is not. Sooner or later good cops are going to suffer. And some have.

Good cops should be working hard to get rid of the bad ones... then they wouldn't suffer. Instead, they cover for the bad ones. In the Gray case, you had a bunch of cops involved, and none of them saw anything. Nope. Freddy must have broken his own neck and back!!! Yeah. That's the ticket. Tamir Rice was going for that toy! LaQuan McDonald was charging. Mike Brown was charging. Sandra Bland struck the officer!

It’s entirely possible that Brown had raised his hands. However, given what we know for a fact according to forensic evidence, it’s likely he raised his hands to about waist level to look at the gunshot injury. Did he raise his hands over his head in submission? Given what had transpired up to this point - i.e., attacking the officer - unlikely.

Uh, guy, this is the bullshit argument. Most people wouldn't put their hand up straight over their heads. Most people would put their hands up over their sides. which wouldn't have changed the position of his shirt at all when the first shot hit him. (The other five, his hands were probably down for obvious reasons.(

Hey, if Darren Wilson is such a super cop, why isn't he back on the job.. .anywhere?

 

[JoeB131]

Exactly. You’ll “always feel morally superior to...”

It’s a charade. What you’re doing is the exact same moral posturing that people like you have always hated about Christians.

Don’t just try to eradicate racism for its practical and societal benefits, let everyone know you’re against racism so you’ll be accepted by the group and looked up to by people of color and little brown people.

Naw, man, what I hate about Christians is they keep voting to let the One Percent screw us all because they be RIGHT with Jesus. "Hey, they sent my union job to a right to work state or China". "Never mind that, them queers are getting married and some darkie wants to take a job picking lettuce!" "Wny, by Jesus, I hate them gays and Mexicans, just like Jesus did. I'm voting Republican!"

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Actually, it does justify lethal force if the officer does not know if the suspect is armed or not.

Which is why we need to change those rules...

How would you change the rules in such a way as not to put the officer at greater risk in a situation where the suspect IS armed? Keeping in mind that the officer does not know that he is armed.

We have too many trigger happy cops out there shooting kids playing with toys or during bullshit traffic stops.

And we have too many trigger happy punks out there shooting cops for traffic stops.

And I’ll bet you regard these measures as racist, don’t you?

E verify is fine. I'd probably go a step further and create a national ID card with biometrics to prevent all sorts of identity theft. Of course, another reason why undocumented immigration and border crossings declined to non-crisis levels was because economic conditions improved in Mexico to where people didn't need to cross the border to find jobs. The real problem, of course, is that the employers who are hiring illegals are KNOWINGLY hiring them. Those are the folks we need to go after, not throwing kids into concentration camps to make racist fucks like you happy.

You accused me before of not wanting little brown people around as my motive for wanting more stringent border security and here you are saying the same thing.

Hypocrite.

An illegal deal that the store employees were not authorized to make. The owner had no part in it nor was he aware of it.

Point was, it put the whole "Strong Arm Robbery" in a different light. Odd the ops hid that from the public for nearly a year when they put out the slow-motion tape of the store owner getting pushed like it was something sinister.

It does not put it in a different light. He stole something that didn’t belong to him.

1) His hands weren’t up. 2) Brown was charging him. I don’t know about you, but I’m not waiting minutes for backup when a guy that outweighs me by a hundred pounds is going to attack me in seconds.

He was also 147 feet away and overweight. He could have easily withdrawn back to his cruiser. But he was going make that boy pay!!!!

Wrong. He was 147 feet away from the cruiser, not Wilson. Wilson was chasing after him and Brown had turned around at some point and began to charge Wilson. Wilson kept telling him to stop but he would not and Wilson then raised his gun and fired when Brown had gotten to within 15 feet or so.

Exactly. People promote anti-cop sentiment because of a few Freddy Grays type cases.

Frustration, anger and resentment are understandable. Pushing a narrative that depicts all cops as racist is not. Sooner or later good cops are going to suffer. And some have.

Good cops should be working hard to get rid of the bad ones... then they wouldn't suffer. Instead, they cover for the bad ones. In the Gray case, you had a bunch of cops involved, and none of them saw anything. Nope. Freddy must have broken his own neck and back!!! Yeah. That's the ticket. Tamir Rice was going for that toy! LaQuan McDonald was charging. Mike Brown was charging. Sandra Bland struck the officer!

Right. And legal immigrants should be working hard to get rid of illegal immigrants. If they don’t then they should suffer the same fate.

Don’t be stupid.

It’s entirely possible that Brown had raised his hands. However, given what we know for a fact according to forensic evidence, it’s likely he raised his hands to about waist level to look at the gunshot injury. Did he raise his hands over his head in submission? Given what had transpired up to this point - i.e., attacking the officer - unlikely.

Uh, guy, this is the bullshit argument. Most people wouldn't put their hand up straight over their heads. Most people would put their hands up over their sides. which wouldn't have changed the position of his shirt at all when the first shot hit him. (The other five, his hands were probably down for obvious reasons.(

Brown was stoned and had just attacked an officer and tried to take his gun and was moving toward the officer. He was not surrendering.

Hey, if Darren Wilson is such a super cop, why isn't he back on the job.. .anywhere?

Again, who said he was a super cop? And why are you asking this again?

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Exactly. You’ll “always feel morally superior to...”

It’s a charade. What you’re doing is the exact same moral posturing that people like you have always hated about Christians.

Don’t just try to eradicate racism for its practical and societal benefits, let everyone know you’re against racism so you’ll be accepted by the group and looked up to by people of color and little brown people.

Naw, man, what I hate about Christians is they keep voting to let the One Percent screw us all because they be RIGHT with Jesus. "Hey, they sent my union job to a right to work state or China". "Never mind that, them queers are getting married and some darkie wants to take a job picking lettuce!" "Wny, by Jesus, I hate them gays and Mexicans, just like Jesus did. I'm voting Republican!"

Yup, just like I said...

 

[JoeB131]

How would you change the rules in such a way as not to put the officer at greater risk in a situation where the suspect IS armed? Keeping in mind that the officer does not know that he is armed.

Simple solution to that. Make it a lot fucking harder to get a gun. Then they'll know people aren't armed.

Funny thing, most of the cases that BLM and I are upset about, the person wasn't armed. Or if they were, they weren't a threat.

But these cops are fucking trigger happy as all get out, and that's the problem.

It does not put it in a different light. He stole something that didn’t belong to him.

No, he took merchandise he had bartered for.

You accused me before of not wanting little brown people around as my motive for wanting more stringent border security and here you are saying the same thing.

Um, no, I'm saying we should have a system that is fair to everyone.. Sorry you are confused.

Right. And legal immigrants should be working hard to get rid of illegal immigrants. If they don’t then they should suffer the same fate.

Immigrants don't belong a regimented, para-military organization. Cops do.

Again, who said he was a super cop? And why are you asking this again?

Well, he must be a super-cop according to you guys. He knew that Mike Brown was a totally evil character who had just robbed a store and would go on to do a massive crime spree... So why not rehire him?

Michael Brown's family received $1.5 million settlement with Ferguson

OH, yeah, that. Now, look, man, I know you won't get upset about people of color being shot... but what it's costing us in settlements should bother you.

LaQuan McDonald's family got 5 million
Tamir Rice's family got 6 million
Walter Scott's family got 6.5 million.

We really, really can't afford trigger happy cops like Wilson, Loehman, Van Dyke and Slager.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

How would you change the rules in such a way as not to put the officer at greater risk in a situation where the suspect IS armed? Keeping in mind that the officer does not know that he is armed.

Simple solution to that. Make it a lot fucking harder to get a gun. Then they'll know people aren't armed.

That’s not a solution, that’s a gun control talking point.

Making it harder to get guns does not eliminate the threat. Not even banning firearms would eliminate the threat. Either way, there’s no way an officer can know someone is not armed.
If I were an officer, I would assume every time that the suspect’s being armed is a possibility because it is. The suspect may choose to put his life at risk but I am not.

Another thing: an officer doesn’t always know if a suspect is armed but all suspects have the advantage of knowing that all officers are armed at all times. This is a given. Yet idiots like Brown choose to attack officers anyway. This is why what he did was so fucking stupid and reckless.

Funny thing, most of the cases that BLM and I are upset about, the person wasn't armed. Or if they were, they weren't a threat.

Duh. Of course this is why people like you are upset. The problem is that people like you never consider extenuating circumstances or the possibility that the suspect behaved irrationally or aggressively as in Brown’s case.

But these cops are fucking trigger happy as all get out, and that's the problem.

The cops are trigger happy because officers are killed every day by suspects.

It does not put it in a different light. He stole something that didn’t belong to him.

No, he took merchandise he had bartered for.

Wrong. He took merchandise that was neither his nor theirs and they had no legal or proprietary right to bargain with it.

BTW, you never answered my question: In your opinion, what could Brown have done or not done on his part to avoid what happened?

You accused me before of not wanting little brown people around as my motive for wanting more stringent border security and here you are saying the same thing.

Um, no, I'm saying we should have a system that is fair to everyone.. Sorry you are confused.

Wrong. You specifically accused me of not wanting “little brown people around”, or words to that effect. Remember, you were the one who brought up little brown people, not me.

Right. And legal immigrants should be working hard to get rid of illegal immigrants. If they don’t then they should suffer the same fate.

Immigrants don't belong a regimented, para-military organization. Cops do.

Irrelevant. The point is, you want to hold good cops accountable for the actions of bad cops.

Again, who said he was a super cop? And why are you asking this again?

Well, he must be a super-cop according to you guys. He knew that Mike Brown was a totally evil character who had just robbed a store and would go on to do a massive crime spree... So why not rehire him?

He knew Brown had just attacked him unprovoked. Everything else is just circumstantial. And if Wilson said anything about Brown being evil (which he didn’t) he said so after the attack, not before.

Again, Brown was not shot for jaywalking or even the strongarm robbery, he was shot for attacking the officer and not backing down when told to.

Michael Brown's family received $1.5 million settlement with Ferguson

OH, yeah, that. Now, look, man, I know you won't get upset about people of color being shot... but what it's costing us in settlements should bother you.

It does actually. It bothers me that punks like Brown can behave criminally and attack an officer and the city has to pay for his poor choices.

LaQuan McDonald's family got 5 million
Tamir Rice's family got 6 million
Walter Scott's family got 6.5 million.

We really, really can't afford trigger happy cops like Wilson, Loehman, Van Dyke and Slager.

Why should this bother you when losing billions a year to illegal immigrants not paying taxes and sending money to their home countries doesn’t? If we could stem that massive leak, it would make up for these lawsuits a hundred times over.

 

[JoeB131]

That’s not a solution, that’s a gun control talking point.

Um. No. It's a solution. The British have already done it and their cops only shoot about 2 people a year.

Making it harder to get guns does not eliminate the threat. Not even banning firearms would eliminate the threat. Either way, there’s no way an officer can know someone is not armed.
If I were an officer, I would assume every time that the suspect’s being armed is a possibility because it is. The suspect may choose to put his life at risk but I am not.

And again... if you shoot an unarmed kid, you are going to jail They just LOOOOVE cops in Jail.

Another thing: an officer doesn’t always know if a suspect is armed but all suspects have the advantage of knowing that all officers are armed at all times. This is a given. Yet idiots like Brown choose to attack officers anyway. This is why what he did was so fucking stupid and reckless.

Or they were just trying to get away from a preceived threat. Again, given how often cops kill black kids and get away with it up until now, they probably see that situation totally differently than you or I would.

Duh. Of course this is why people like you are upset. The problem is that people like you never consider extenuating circumstances or the possibility that the suspect behaved irrationally or aggressively as in Brown’s case.

Nope, I don't think having your hands up constituted a threat.

It does actually. It bothers me that punks like Brown can behave criminally and attack an officer and the city has to pay for his poor choices.

The poor choices made here were by Wilson when he used deadly force to resolve a petty offense. No one settles when they know they can win.

Why should this bother you when losing billions a year to illegal immigrants not paying taxes and sending money to their home countries doesn’t? If we could stem that massive leak, it would make up for these lawsuits a hundred times over.

Yes, guy, you are totally not racist when you make comments like this. Undocumented immigrants are a net boom for our economy. They are keeping it afloat. Without illegal labor, we'd be experiencing runaway inflation.

He knew Brown had just attacked him unprovoked. Everything else is just circumstantial. And if Wilson said anything about Brown being evil (which he didn’t) he said so after the attack, not before.

Again, Brown was not shot for jaywalking or even the strongarm robbery, he was shot for attacking the officer and not backing down when told to.

No, he was shot because Wilson was a racist piece of shit.

Irrelevant. The point is, you want to hold good cops accountable for the actions of bad cops.

Completely relevant- They belong to an organization. They are the ones covering up for the bad cops, filing false police reports, destroying evidence, intimidating witnesses... Oh, yeah, and unlike undocumented immigrants, they are commiting real crimes.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

That’s not a solution, that’s a gun control talking point.

Um. No. It's a solution. The British have already done it and their cops only shoot about 2 people a year.

Your response is an answer to the question as to how to reduce the number of suspects shooting cops, but that was not my question. My question was: How would you change the rules in such a way as not to put the officer at greater risk in a situation where the suspect IS armed?

In other words, if the suspect is armed but the officer does not know that he is, other than assuming the suspect could be armed, how does he proceed without putting his own life at risk if the suspect is coming at him?

Making it harder to get guns does not eliminate the threat. Not even banning firearms would eliminate the threat. Either way, there’s no way an officer can know someone is not armed.
If I were an officer, I would assume every time that the suspect’s being armed is a possibility because it is. The suspect may choose to put his life at risk but I am not.

And again... if you shoot an unarmed kid, you are going to jail They just LOOOOVE cops in Jail.

Not if the suspect is exhibiting threatening behavior. If an officer perceives a threat, he is authorized to shoot. If it turns out the suspect was not armed then that just means the suspect was a fucking moron to threaten an armed officer while he himself was unarmed. I mean, how fucking stupid can you get?

This is why I say what Brown did was especially stupid and reckless.

Another thing: an officer doesn’t always know if a suspect is armed but all suspects have the advantage of knowing that all officers are armed at all times. This is a given. Yet idiots like Brown choose to attack officers anyway. This is why what he did was so fucking stupid and reckless.

Or they were just trying to get away from a preceived threat.

Brown attacked Wilson and then later charged at him. If he perceived a threat from Wilson then everything he did is that much more stupid and senseless.

Again, given how often cops kill black kids and get away with it up until now, they probably see that situation totally differently than you or I would.

Obviously they see it differently. What some see differently - or rather, choose to ignore - is that sometimes the suspects behave in a way that leaves the officer with no choice but to put them down.

Duh. Of course this is why people like you are upset. The problem is that people like you never consider extenuating circumstances or the possibility that the suspect behaved irrationally or aggressively as in Brown’s case.

Nope, I don't think having your hands up constituted a threat.

But charging at the officer does. Which is what Brown did.

Do you honestly keep forgetting this or are you hoping I will?

It does actually. It bothers me that punks like Brown can behave criminally and attack an officer and the city has to pay for his poor choices.

The poor choices made here were by Wilson when he used deadly force to resolve a petty offense. No one settles when they know they can win.

Once again, Brown was not shot for the robbery or jaywalking, he was shot for attacking an officer.

It is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest of you to keep pushing this narrative when you yourself know it is not why Wilson shot him.

Why should this bother you when losing billions a year to illegal immigrants not paying taxes and sending money to their home countries doesn’t? If we could stem that massive leak, it would make up for these lawsuits a hundred times over.

Yes, guy, you are totally not racist when you make comments like this.

Like what, the truth? Who’s butthurt now?

Undocumented immigrants are a net boom for our economy. They are keeping it afloat. Without illegal labor, we'd be experiencing runaway inflation.

Bullshit. The billion dollars lost in tax revenue and income not being spent here would go a long way in helping to pay for the free health care you want. Did you even think of that?

He knew Brown had just attacked him unprovoked. Everything else is just circumstantial. And if Wilson said anything about Brown being evil (which he didn’t) he said so after the attack, not before.

Again, Brown was not shot for jaywalking or even the strongarm robbery, he was shot for attacking the officer and not backing down when told to.

No, he was shot because Wilson was a racist piece of shit.

When all else fails: racism. For that matter, when nothing fails: racism.

Irrelevant. The point is, you want to hold good cops accountable for the actions of bad cops.

Completely relevant- They belong to an organization. They are the ones covering up for the bad cops, filing false police reports, destroying evidence, intimidating witnesses...

These are all criminal actions which would make them bad cops. What you’re describing is bad cops covering for bad cops. This suggests to me that you think there are no good cops.

Oh, yeah, and unlike undocumented immigrants, they are commiting real crimes.

Being an undocumented immigrant is a crime. A real one. And undocumented immigrants are committing crimes every day: drug dealing, sex trafficking, murder, etc.

And, you still haven’t answered my question: What could Brown have done or not done to avoid what happened?

I suspect that, like the question about Phillips approaching Sandmann, you’re never going to answer and you’ll probably be bailing on me before long.

 

[JoeB131]

Your response is an answer to the question as to how to reduce the number of suspects shooting cops, but that was not my question. My question was: How would you change the rules in such a way as not to put the officer at greater risk in a situation where the suspect IS armed?

Don't pull over every black person you run into. That's would be a start. Don't be fucking trigger happy.

This isn't a discussion about shooting "armed" suspects. This is a discussion of them shooting UNARMED suspects.

Not if the suspect is exhibiting threatening behavior. If an officer perceives a threat, he is authorized to shoot.

And that's the problem. We hire racist cops who shit themselves when they see a scary black man. Or even a scary black child.

But charging at the officer does. Which is what Brown did.

Do you honestly keep forgetting this or are you hoping I will?

No, you'll keep repeating the racist asshole's LIES about "charging", which was contradicted by all the witnesses. And you'll ignore that Wilson was fired from his LAST job for corruption.

These are all criminal actions which would make them bad cops. What you’re describing is bad cops covering for bad cops. This suggests to me that you think there are no good cops.

That's a good question. Why do Good Cops feel the need to cover up for the bad ones? I don't think the guys who covered up for Jason Van Dyke were bad cops. They just felt a need to protect one of their own. (Incidently, people in my family know van Dyke... I'm not on speaking terms with some of them over this incident because I have some crazy idea that when you shoot a kid lying on the ground 16 times, you should go to jail.)

Being an undocumented immigrant is a crime. A real one. And undocumented immigrants are committing crimes every day: drug dealing, sex trafficking, murder, etc.

Uh, guy, the illegals are the victims of sex trafficking, not the perpetrators. You want to end "sex trafficking". Simple enough solution. Get rid of all the idiotic prostitution laws. Same with drug dealing. Get rid of the drug laws. Murder. Well, since we aren't going to you know, get common sense gun control in this country, we are just going to have to live with a handful of our 16,000 murders each year being committed by people without papers.

And, you still haven’t answered my question: What could Brown have done or not done to avoid what happened?

I did answer your question. Not a fucking thing. This isn't about Brown. It's about a racist piece of shit corrupt cop who shot an unarmed kid who had his hands up and lied about it.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Your response is an answer to the question as to how to reduce the number of suspects shooting cops, but that was not my question. My question was: How would you change the rules in such a way as not to put the officer at greater risk in a situation where the suspect IS armed?

Don't pull over every black person you run into. That's would be a start. Don't be fucking trigger happy.

You left out the rest of the question. Deliberately, most likely. The rest of the question was: How does he proceed without putting his own life at risk if the suspect is coming at him?

This isn't a discussion about shooting "armed" suspects. This is a discussion of them shooting UNARMED suspects.

Wrong. We’re talking about the Michael Brown case.

I never denied that cops unjustifiably shoot unarmed blacks and I said as much myself. If they do and the investigation supports this, then prosecute.

My point is, and always has been, not all cases of unarmed suspect shootings are unjustified. Sometimes, as in the Michael Brown case, they threaten or attack the officer and, if the officer does not know if the suspect is armed or not, he must shoot and put the suspect down to defend his own life.

Not if the suspect is exhibiting threatening behavior. If an officer perceives a threat, he is authorized to shoot.

And that's the problem. We hire racist cops who shit themselves when they see a scary black man. Or even a scary black child.

If they are threatening or attacking the officer then yes, they are scary.

But charging at the officer does. Which is what Brown did.

Do you honestly keep forgetting this or are you hoping I will?

No, you'll keep repeating the racist asshole's LIES about "charging", which was contradicted by all the witnesses.

Wrong. According to the DOJ report, a number of witnesses testified that Brown did not have his hands up and was moving towards Wilson.

• Witness 102, a white male doing home repairs nearby, testified that Brown never had his hands up and was moving toward Wilson.
• Witness 103, a black male driving by and witnessing the incident firsthand from feet away, testified the same thing.
• Witnesses 104, 105, 106, & 107, a black family in a minivan, all testified the same thing.
• Witnesses 108 & 109, both black males nearby, testified the same.
• Witnesses 110 & 111, a black couple just arriving at their home nearby, testified the same.
• Witnesses 112, 115 & 141, all black males that lived nearby or otherwise witnessed the incident, testified the same.

Witnesses 113 & 125, both black females, lied and said they had witnessed the shooting but later recanted and said they had not seen a thing when it was pointed out that forensic evidence directly contradicted their testimony.
One said she just wanted to be involved and the other said to the effect: “You just have to live the life to know it.”

And you'll ignore that Wilson was fired from his LAST job for corruption.

Wrong. The department was closed down due to corruption and most of the officers were let go but Wilson kept his job and was assigned to a jailhouse. And, there were never any allegations or accusations of corruption against Wilson in particular.

You’ve been told this already.

These are all criminal actions which would make them bad cops. What you’re describing is bad cops covering for bad cops. This suggests to me that you think there are no good cops.

That's a good question. Why do Good Cops feel the need to cover up for the bad ones? I don't think the guys who covered up for Jason Van Dyke were bad cops. They just felt a need to protect one of their own. (Incidently, people in my family know van Dyke... I'm not on speaking terms with some of them over this incident because I have some crazy idea that when you shoot a kid lying on the ground 16 times, you should go to jail.)

Covering up for a bad cop is not good cop behavior. Once a heretofore good cop takes that step, he is now in the dubious realm of bad cops.

A good cop is a good cop. I.E., a good cop follows departmental procedure, does not cover up bad behavior by bad cops, is fair and honest with suspects and otherwise generally conducts his job within the law.

Now, unless you’re saying that officers like this do not exist then you will have to prove as much. Until then, my original point stands: good cops are being targeted for violence and criticism along with the bad ones because of the anti-cop rhetoric.

Being an undocumented immigrant is a crime. A real one. And undocumented immigrants are committing crimes every day: drug dealing, sex trafficking, murder, etc.

Uh, guy, the illegals are the victims of sex trafficking, not the perpetrators.

Some of the sex traffickers are illegals trafficking illegals. MS-13 is a known sex traffic organization.

You want to end "sex trafficking". Simple enough solution. Get rid of all the idiotic prostitution laws. Same with drug dealing. Get rid of the drug laws. Murder. Well, since we aren't going to you know, get common sense gun control in this country, we are just going to have to live with a handful of our 16,000 murders each year being committed by people without papers.

Blah blah blah. This is nothing more than diversion or deflection. The fact remains that some illegal immigrants are committing real crimes.

And, you still haven’t answered my question: What could Brown have done or not done to avoid what happened?

I did answer your question. Not a fucking thing.

So are you telling me that if Brown had done as Wilson asked and got on the sidewalk, not attacked Wilson in his cruiser and had not charged at him, that Wilson would have shot him anyway?

This isn't about Brown.

Of course it’s about Brown you idiot. He’s the one who attacked an officer and was shot for it, isn’t he?

It's about a racist piece of shit corrupt cop who shot an unarmed kid who had his hands up and lied about it.

Sorry, but a number of witnesses WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE testified that he did not have his hands up and that he charged at the officer. Forensic evidence proves this.

The evidence and overall testimony is simply not on your side here and even some of those who testified that Brown had his hands up said he was moving toward Wilson when Wilson shot him.
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[JoeB131]

You left out the rest of the question. Deliberately, most likely. The rest of the question was: How does he proceed without putting his own life at risk if the suspect is coming at him?

Don't pull over or harass every black kid you run into. We've been over this.

Wrong. According to the DOJ report,

You mean after they decided they were going to whitewash the whole incident after the riots so they didn't look like they were giving into rioters?

Wrong. The department was closed down due to corruption and most of the officers were let go but Wilson kept his job and was assigned to a jailhouse. And, there were never any allegations or accusations of corruption against Wilson in particular.

Nope. He was fired, too. The disbanded the whole police force because it was so corrupt.

Covering up for a bad cop is not good cop behavior. Once a heretofore good cop takes that step, he is now in the dubious realm of bad cops.

More shithouse lawyer sophistry... don't waste my time. The problem isn't individuals, it's a group think. Of course, you cover for one of your own. Of course you start out with the premise that if there was a police shooting, it must have been justified. (As opposed to some civilian shooting someone, you start out with the premise it was a homicide.)

Civilians shootings are investigated by Homicide
Cop shootings are investigated by Internal Affairs, or as they like to call them, "The Rat Squad".

This is nothing more than diversion or deflection. The fact remains that some illegal immigrants are committing real crimes.

Sure. And when they do, they should go to jail. Period.

So are you telling me that if Brown had done as Wilson asked and got on the sidewalk, not attacked Wilson in his cruiser and had not charged at him, that Wilson would have shot him anyway?

Probably. He was a real racist piece of shit. The kind who would go after a kid for jaywalking.

Of course it’s about Brown you idiot. He’s the one who attacked an officer and was shot for it, isn’t he?

No, he was the one murdered by a racist cop.

Sorry, but a number of witnesses WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE testified that he did not have his hands up and that he charged at the officer. Forensic evidence proves this.

The evidence and overall testimony is simply not on your side here and even some of those who testified that Brown had his hands up said he was moving toward Wilson when Wilson shot him.

Again, I can get someone to testify you are a space alien if I threaten them enough. Once the investigators decided this was a "Good Shoot", all the evidence was molded to that and the intent was to NEVER, EVER put this in front of a jury.