Supreme Court Rules 7-2 on Obamacare

[Rigby5]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

It should be pretty clear that Obamacare is not going to be overturn by the Supreme Court. Conservatives have 3 times tried and struck out. The only way it is going to be overturned is if republican in congress do it. Republicans had a chance when they controlled Congress during the Trump administration. Instead of making it a priority, they punted and left it to the courts. The fact is conservatives want Obamacare gone but they don't want to have to offer a replacement because of the problems it will cause them at the ballot box. 28 million people have health insurance due to Obamacare. 38 states have adopted Medicaid Expansion, a part of Obamacare. Without Obamacare, those states would be faced with either a huge cut to Medicaid or replacing federal funds with state funds.

ACA will be obsolete when something better is devised.
And I think that is the public option.
How to get that?
Easy, just end the employer tax exemption for employee benefits.
Then almost all private health insurance will disappear.

Single payer right ? I've been through the Government run healthcare system. The VA is a fucking nightmare.

Sure VA is not great, but private health insurance is even worse because it cost too much for about 40% of the population.
If insurance companies were not deliberately buying up all the good doctors and nurses, then VA would have better staff.
Single payer is better because then the payer is on your side and you have collective bargaining power we don't have now.
Right now the insurance companies are not on our side because they want to control profits.
Single payer is not out for profit, so it is not trying to scrimp on pooled money it does not care about.
Single payer is not skimming off profits.
Single payer works in all other countries.

 

[Flopper]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

That's truly a shame. The Court is a joke. I just hope Manchin keeps his finger in the dam. Otherwise, we're all fucked.

I think it's a very good thing that we still have Obamacare.

In fact, I think we should do away with insurance companies for health care.

Most people in America can't stand insurance companies controlling what health care they can have and denying to pay medical bills.

We have some people who can have health care without being bankrupted or have insurance premiums that aren't astronomical. It's not fair that some people have proper insurance that is affordable and others don't here in the United States.

Our health care system is a total mess.

Most people in America can't stand insurance companies controlling what health care they can have and denying to pay medical bills.

and you think Medicare is any different?...

Anybody holding up signs like this demanding any healthcare plan Republicans proposed??View attachment 502413

For Medicare to be just like private insurance companies -- there sure seems to be a lot of historically popular bipartisan support for it over the last 60 or so years....

they dont cover everything.....so they also tell you what health care you can have....

Does Medicare tell you what care you can have in order to increase profit share like private insurance companies do??

Do they find all kinds of ways to deny covering pre-existing conditions so they can run at 20% overhead in order to pay out those executive bonuses??

Again...there is a reason why after 50 years -- those with Medicare still love it in comparison to any alternative Republicans/private insurance has offered....


Do we need to pretend to not know the history of how Medicare even became a thing??

all i said was ...medicare does not cover many things,just like private ins.....am i wrong or not?....

Medicaid covers just about everything private insurance covers, basically what Medicare covers. Unlike traditional insurance low or no copays, deductibles, or premiums. However, there are serious drawbacks to Medicaid. First being it is limited to families with a low income and some states, very low income so it will go away if you exceed those limits. Second, it is a state program. Go out of your home state and the only coverage is emergency care. Lastly, Medicaid reimbursement to doctors varies by state and is often lower than Medicare or insurance company reimbursements. Many Doctors limit the number of Medicaid patients and some don't accept Medicaid at all. Thus the patient may not have a lot of choices and may have to travel further than the patient is able. This is particular frustrating because many doctors accept Medicaid but they limit the numbers so much that it is virtual impossible to get an appointment. However, for serious problems that require hospitalization, care is just as good as Medicare or other insurance.

thats great but we were talking about medicare.....

Sorry, I was reading your post a bit too fast. However, you are wrong if you really mean medial coverage. Medicare, Medicaid, and Private Insurance covers just about every accepted medical procedure under the ACA. They may not pay for all of it but they cover it. There are only a few exceptions, namely eye exams, dental, chiropractor, Naturopathy, and medical procedures which are considered experimental or are recognized by AMA as a treatment. My wife and I have had Medicare for over 15 years and have had extensive medical treatment and I don't believe I have ever had a medical procedure denied other than those listed above. Occasional a doctor may ask Medicare to approve a procedure that is not a recognized treatment for a diagnosis but generally Medicare will approve it the doctor justifies it's use.

sorry i have medicare and have been turned down by procedures my doctor wanted done......

That does happen if those procedures are not recognized as common diagnostic or treatment procedures. The way Medicare works in regard to new treatments is your doctor submits data showing that this treatment is needed and there is data showing that it is effective. It then goes to a panel of physicians who evaluate the request. Most requests are granted. Insurance companies rely on Medicare for approval. As long as there is sound research indicating that the requested procedure has been determined to be safe and effective, it will be approval on a case by case evaluation. Approval by Medicare is the gold standard for both Medicaid and insurance company approval.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I understand the mindset that holds Americans back from demanding better. And yes, some of you still, after many years of torture, still think that for profit health care is going to come to the rescue

Do you undercut? I don’t think you do. I don’t think that you truly understand how many of us do not want anything from the Government; whether we’ve paid for it or not.

It’s not that we somehow believe the insure companies have our best interests at heart. We know they don’t. We’d just rather take the chance of getting care for our bodies there than doing harm to our Souls by dealing with the Government.

If you want nothing from the government then only drive on your roads, go to your schools, have your own military, have your own fire fighters, have your own police, if you cannot pay for health care, die.

You don't die if you have health care..


Who knew?

Well Bear, you do die with insurance and/or a lot of money, but most likely not as fast as if you were only given healthcare if you could pay for it or had insurance.
I know this is a very complex idea. Have your mother explain it to you.

Talk about drinking the Kool aid

That is not Kool Aid, that is the real world; no sugar added. How old are you. You sound like a person who has not experienced much in life or are very stupid or both.

Old enough to know I don't need health insurance and am not paying for your fat ass

Right now, if you do not have health insurance, you basically can't get an appointment to see a doctor.
Instead you have to go to the ER, because they are required by law to not turn people away.
But they giver really bad health care for most things.

I have no idea, haven't been to a doctor in like 30 years except for employees mandated drug tests

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Well, mandating that one drives a car with insurance is pretty much the law in every state...and if you don't have insurance and you drive a car -- there are severe penalties.....including suspension of driving privileges and jail....

And it's just as wrong.

It is not a federal mandate that every person have car insurance but that is mainly because the insurance industry successfully lobbied every state to make this a law

Exactly. But with health insurance, they saw a way to skip all the state-by-state lobbying, and go straight for the (federal) jugular.

Lol @ it's just a wrong....

Really??

That's funny because I didn't see any conservatives doing performance art and "crusading" against it like they do the ACA.....in fact, to this day, I still don't see any conservatives fighting against it...so I doubt they feel it is wrong at all

Kinda tells me their opposition to ACA is full of shit and mostly predicated on "opposing what the black guy did"

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

I think it's a very good thing that we still have Obamacare.

In fact, I think we should do away with insurance companies for health care.

Most people in America can't stand insurance companies controlling what health care they can have and denying to pay medical bills.

We have some people who can have health care without being bankrupted or have insurance premiums that aren't astronomical. It's not fair that some people have proper insurance that is affordable and others don't here in the United States.

Our health care system is a total mess.

I've spent way too much time discussing the merits, or lack thereof, of ACA. It's corporatist shitshow throughout.

But, outside it's corruption and the blatant violation of Constitutional limits on government, the ACA does not have broad consensus. It was passed on strict partisan lines and will be a political football going forward, constantly torn and twisted as successive administrations get their hands on it.

You've managed to put politicians in charge of our health care. Congrats.

You will never convince a Statist that anything is wrong with a government program.

Black or white.....white or black.

Say, just where is libertarianism practiced on this planet?

Everywhere. Most of the time.

Where exactly?

Here. Wherever you are. Anywhere, and in any situation, when there aren't laws dictating our behavior. Is that "exact" enough for you?

I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to build a strawman equating libertarianism with anarchy. The usual. That lets you dismiss any argument criticizing the expansion of government power as "impractical". Basically you're saying, "anarchy doesn't work so you have accept whatever government power grab I propose". Whatever.

I don't care whether you call me a libertarian, or what (the Trumpsters here call me a leftist, go figure). And I'm not - in this thread - talking about any other issues. I just don't want my family's health care to be democratically determined. Voters are far too stupid to trust with something so important.

There are lots of good similarities between Anarchism and Libertarianism.
But what Libertarians forget is that in a modern industrialized society, there are unfair business practices that can be used to essentially make economic slaves out of people.
One way if for insurance companies to buy up all the medical providers until they have a vertical monopoly.
They create the effect of a horizontal monopoly by price fixing.
So going back to around 1890, the only way for individuals to be protected from illegal trust was through government regulation.
Anarchists and Libertarians who do not acknowledge the need for government protection from corporate abuse, like health care monopolies, is just naïve.
And ultimately, the least expensive and most efficient and fair way to pay for health care is through public health care.
Otherwise you just add layers of skimming that add nothing to services.

"But what Libertarians forget is that in a modern industrialized society, there are unfair business practices that can be used to essentially make economic slaves out of people."

Libertarians didn't forget that....they know full well that is what happens....they just don't care.....which is why libertarianism is a joke....

 

[dblack]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Of course they also want to force the rest of us into their pens, and that's where the problem lies.

 

[dblack]

Well, mandating that one drives a car with insurance is pretty much the law in every state...and if you don't have insurance and you drive a car -- there are severe penalties.....including suspension of driving privileges and jail....

And it's just as wrong.

It is not a federal mandate that every person have car insurance but that is mainly because the insurance industry successfully lobbied every state to make this a law

Exactly. But with health insurance, they saw a way to skip all the state-by-state lobbying, and go straight for the (federal) jugular.

Lol @ it's just a wrong....

Really??

Yeah. Pointing that out usually just evokes nervous laughter. But give it some thought. It's the same thing. The insurance companies lobbied to mandate themselves some customers. And we let them.

That's funny because I didn't see any conservatives doing performance art and "crusading" against it like they do the ACA.....in fact, to this day, I still don't see any conservatives fighting against it...so I doubt they feel it is wrong at all

Yes. I realize most people don't see it. But it's the same shit.

Kinda tells me their opposition to ACA is full of shit and mostly predicated on "opposing what the black guy did"

Sure. That was obvious when they refused to repeal it.

 

[dblack]

f you want nothing from the government then only drive on your roads, go to your schools, have your own military, have your own fire fighters, have your own police, if you cannot pay for health care, die

I want nothing from the Government except what they’re specifically given power over in founding documents, and which I pay taxes for:

From the Feds thst would be interstate roads and defense of the nation (not other nations). From the state that would be state roads. From the local Government that would be fire, police, local roads. Schools should be a private affair.

The Government should not have its nose or fingers in most of people’s affairs. Definitely not our health care.

Libertarianism doesn't work.

Try to keep up.

It works brilliantly. It's the default mode of society.

Try to pay attention.

Libertarianism was the ...

Uh huh. I'm really bored with all the equivocation on labels and definitions.

Regarding this issue, I simply don't want healthcare to be political concern. I don't want people like Donald Trump, or any number of amoral, power hungry leaders, making health care decisions for my family.

 

[dblack]

Under the ACA it is illegal to based a person's premiums on usage.

Right. The entire premise of ACA is a denial of the basic concept of insurance. We're trying to turn it into a social safety net. It won't work, it will just become more and more dysfunctional and eventually the government will take over altogether. But hey, it will make the insurance companies a boatload of money in the process!

We should have this kind "insurance" for all of life's necessities. Won't that be fun!

 

[Dana7360]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

 

[dblack]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

 

[Dana7360]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

 

[meaner gene]

Regarding this issue, I simply don't want healthcare to be political concern. I don't want people like Donald Trump, or any number of amoral, power hungry leaders, making health care decisions for my family.

Did you vote for Trump? Did you do so, because he promised to repeal obamacare?

Be honest.

Or did you oppose Trump meddling with healthcare?

 

[dblack]

Regarding this issue, I simply don't want healthcare to be political concern. I don't want people like Donald Trump, or any number of amoral, power hungry leaders, making health care decisions for my family.

Did you vote for Trump? Did you do so, because he promised to repeal obamacare?

Be honest.

Gawd no. In part, because I never believed he would. I was right.

Or did you oppose Trump meddling with healthcare?

I oppose Trump for a long list of reasons.

 

[dblack]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

OK. Got it. The government is your lord and savior. And there's no point debating religious faith.

I just wish you weren't so hell bent on forcing your faith on everyone else.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

OK. Got it. The government is your lord and savior. And there's no point debating religious faith.

I just wish you weren't so hell bent on forcing your faith on everyone else.

Since you claim to be a libertarian; I understand why you could never provide any examples of this "normal health insurance" in practice...

Because being a libertarian, you similarly can't provide any examples of a successful libertarian country existing today or ever

 

[dblack]

Since you claim to be a libertarian...

I don't "claim to be a libertarian" - I'm tired of arm-wrestling over labels and definitions. I just don't want politicians fucking with healthcare.

 

[kaz]

0

First of all, it was wildly uncommon for the justification for his ruling to be something that neither side argued. The Obama administration argued it was NOT a tax.

Second, there was no severability clause, so even if the mandate was a tax, the whole thing should have been tossed.

Roberts again came out with a bizarre argument and said well, they MEANT to put in a severability clause, but they ran out of time, so he'll pretend it was there. Then he didn't throw out the rest of the bill that clearly wasn't a tax even though he admitted that and pretended there was a severability clause.

As I said, Roberts cared about his career. Not the law, not his country. He just wildcatted the whole thing

First, I don't care who argued it or if it is common. The ruling is what it is. The individual mandate is a tax. Therefore it is constitutional. What you said about the exchanges and healthcare regulations being a tax is gibberish.

Second, this doesn't make any sense. "Severability" would mean that if one part is declared unconstitutional then the whole bill would stand. If there is no "severability" clause, then if the individual mandate was unconstitutional, then the whole bill would have to be declared unconstitutional. So if the mandate is a tax, and therefore constitutional, then severability doesn't even come into play.

You're just babbling your inane nonsense again

Translation: you have no idea what you’re talking about and have no way of actually responding in a rational way.

Honestly, very little of what you’ve posted actually makes sense. It’s just little bits and pieces of actual arguments which you manage to repeat, incorrectly, without actually understanding it.

Translation, you are writing your normal unintelligible crap, you can't read a post and you LOVE to bicker

 

[kaz]

Congress removed the mandate.

Wrong.

The IM remains, the tax penalty was eliminated – or more accurately, reduced to $0.

Absent the penalty, the issue as to whether the IM is Constitutional becomes moot.

No penalty, no damages; no damages, no standing; no standing, no case.

Thanks for splitting hairs, Captain Blowhard

 

[kaz]

Since you claim to be a libertarian...

I don't "claim to be a libertarian" - I'm tired of arm-wrestling over labels and definitions. I just don't want politicians fucking with healthcare.

You never could explain how you're libertarian or why totalitarian leftists love you and they are the only ones you ever agree with