The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act passed a couple days ago

[S.J.]

How about if YOU and the rest of the ghouls on the left who see nothing wrong with butchering babies pay for it since YOU'RE the ones who are doing the butchering?

Fetuses aren't babies.

and frankly, I don't have an opinion on abortion one way or the other. I don't need one because I don't have a uterus.

I do realize as a purely practical matter, you can't make a woman be a mother if she doesn't want to.

You ARE a uterus.

Naw, he's an asshole...

There's a difference...

But just an inch or so.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

1. "Fetus" is the term while still in the womb. There are no born fetuses any more than there are unborn teenagers.
2. My solution is to require that doctors do their jobs just like airline stewardesses and county clerks are supposed to.
3. The taxpayers would be paying for it under the universal healthcare I'm pretty sure we both want. I'd be happy to dig into my own savings if I'm wrong.
4. Your argument that we should kill preemies if they were born during an abortion kind of falls flat when I was a preemie too...

You were a preemie that someone wanted, and was willing to shoulder the financial burden of caring for.

Obviously, a fetus that is aborted post week 23 probably already has some serious issues or the woman wouldn't be aborting it to start with.

So what you are saying is that because of your religious beliefs, a woman who is already having to terminate a pregnancy of an unhealthy fetus should now have to shoulder the burden of lifetime care (albeit it will probably be a very short life) of futile attempts to extend its life.

This is really all manner of crazy talk.

Well... you have a point.

The cost of bearing people's unwanted children is terribly expensive. And since human life is sacred and to devalue the unborn child, devalues the post born human... it follows that we, as a self governing people, have a serious public interests in governing the birth of children and the behavior which produces children.

Therefore, I say we outlaw abortion and set severe penalties, up to and including death for anyone who is found conceiving a child and not bearing 100% responsibility for it. And summary execution for anyone caught serving in the process of murdering pre-born children.

(Gilligan, summary execution means that the individual citizens is authorized to execute abortion doctors, as long as they have reasonable, tangible evidence that an individual has assisted in or committed the act of ending the life of a pre-born child.)

Reader, enjoy the caterwauling and crying by those here to lament the cost of bearing children and to advocate for the fleeing from any sense of responsibility for their willful and wanton behavior which is designed for no other purpose than the conception of children.

 

[JoeB131]

Think about this legislation, his opposition to it, what JoeB said, and what you just said. "Let him die" is exactly what the opponents of this bill are championing. Let the baby die because you don't want to pay for her medical care after trying to kill her in the first place. Let her die on the table because her life only has value when you say it does.

They have a parlance in medical wards called "CTF" It stands for "Cleetus the Fetus". That's when a preemie is born before 22 weeks and the doctors just go through the motions. They know it isn't viable. They just pretend like it is to humor hte parents.

I imagine they won't have to do that if the woman wanted to be rid of the thing to start with.

 

[JoeB131]

Well... you have a point.

The cost of bearing people's unwanted children is terribly expensive. And since human life is sacred and to devalue the unborn child, devalues the post born human... it follows that we, as a self governing people, have a serious public interests in governing the birth of children and the behavior which produces children.

Therefore, I say we outlaw abortion and set severe penalties, up to and including death for anyone who is found conceiving a child and not bearing 100% responsibility for it.

Reader, enjoy the caterwauling and crying by those here to lament the cost of bearing children and to advocate for the fleeing from any sense of responsibility for their willful and wanton behavior which is designed for no other purpose than the conception of children.

again, your quest to convince us you've never gotten laid in your life is meeting with great success.

Here's the thing guy, countries have tried the shit you spew. And it fails. Every single time it's been tried.

No country has ever successfully outlawed abortion.

Not that you are capable of being educated, but you should really look up what happened when Romania tried to ban birth control and abortion in order to boost their population numbers.

It failed. Miserably. women found ways to beat the law.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Think about this legislation, his opposition to it, what JoeB said, and what you just said. "Let him die" is exactly what the opponents of this bill are championing. Let the baby die because you don't want to pay for her medical care after trying to kill her in the first place. Let her die on the table because her life only has value when you say it does.

They have a parlance in medical wards called "CTF" It stands for "Cleetus the Fetus". That's when a preemie is born before 22 weeks and the doctors just go through the motions. They know it isn't viable. They just pretend like it is to humor hte parents.

I imagine they won't have to do that if the woman wanted to be rid of the thing to start with.

The law isn't about a fetus. It doesn't touch on viability or disabilities. It's about a living, screaming baby that just popped out of her mother's pussy. It says that the abortionist has no right to finish the job on a born, living person. Keep in mind that, up until now, birth was the standard beginning of personhood for the pro-choice position. We're moving that back because it's not convenient enough for you.

Well... you have a point.

The cost of bearing people's unwanted children is terribly expensive. And since human life is sacred and to devalue the unborn child, devalues the post born human... it follows that we, as a self governing people, have a serious public interests in governing the birth of children and the behavior which produces children.

Therefore, I say we outlaw abortion and set severe penalties, up to and including death for anyone who is found conceiving a child and not bearing 100% responsibility for it.

Reader, enjoy the caterwauling and crying by those here to lament the cost of bearing children and to advocate for the fleeing from any sense of responsibility for their willful and wanton behavior which is designed for no other purpose than the conception of children.

again, your quest to convince us you've never gotten laid in your life is meeting with great success.

Here's the thing guy, countries have tried the shit you spew. And it fails. Every single time it's been tried.

No country has ever successfully outlawed abortion.

Not that you are capable of being educated, but you should really look up what happened when Romania tried to ban birth control and abortion in order to boost their population numbers.

It failed. Miserably. women found ways to beat the law.

This isn't about sex either. Please stop trying to derail and pretend to have some shred of the integrity the military clearly failed to instill in its NCOs.

 

[hortysir]

House votes to defund Planned Parenthood, but will that help avert a shutdown?

Under this new act, doctors could be charged with up to five years in prison for killing a newborn after a failed abortion. 248 voted for it with 177 against. Voting was almost entirely by party lines, with five Democrats supporting the bill and no Republicans opposing it. President Obama has vowed to veto it. There is a high likelihood that Democrats will filibuster it if the veto fails.

No surprise.

House and Senate approved banning partial birth abortions.
Clinton vetoed it

 

[hortysir]

"The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act"

...is a 'solution' in search of a 'problem' that doesn't exist.

It's yet another example of Congressional republicans pandering to the base while failing to address the Nation's business, it's yet another example of Congressional republicans' contempt for sound responsible governance, and it's yet another example of the ridiculous social right.

Education is key to removing blinders:

The Abortion Survivors Network - Failed Abortions - Get Informed

Now what are the odds of surviving a late abortion: According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, of the roughly 1.2 million abortions annually in the U.S., about 1.5%, or 18,000, are done after 20 weeks. Using the lower CDC estimate of 400 survivors a year, this means that if you are in utero, and your mother undergoes a late abortion, you have a 1/45 chance of surviving.

1/45 is pretty damned good odds

 

[JoeB131]

Whether your mother loves you is not the determining factor in whether you deserve to live. Again, under your logic, you would be well within your rights to kill me. We already have systems in place to take care of these children. Slicing them up should not be our first solution.

Uh, no, guy we really don't. The system we have for taking care of special needs children is ALREADY underfunded and understaffed.

Again, this isn't about fetuses. This is about newborns and whether doctors have the legal right to kill or neglect them. I can kind of understand your insistence on using "fetus" to mean "unwanted baby" in the womb, due to that technically being the correct terminology. Extending the term to any born person you want to deprive of personhood just crosses the line into ridiculous.

No, what crosses the line into ridiculousness is politicians and religious nuts substituting their judgement for that of medical professionals.

How many times do I have to tell you, JoeB131, the specific guy this is directed to, that I'm an atheist? My views are no more derived from my religious beliefs than your views are derived from your religion for the same reason. I understand that it's simply more convenient to pretend that all anti-abortion sentiment is motivated by religious fundamentalism, but for fucks sake, at least make a show of having integrity.

Guy, I tried to play the "I'm a pro-life atheist" game for years. And I even came up with better argumetns than you've presented. But the reality is, Abortion is just another way the 1% keep stupid people voting against their own economic interests. If the 1% and the GOP were really interested in outlawing abortion, they'd have appointed anti-choice justices and gotten it done years ago.

You're right. There will be doctors who refuse to follow it. Gosnell wasn't exactly an isolated incident. Those who follow in his footsteps will be dealt with in the same manner he was, regardless of how much liberals kick and scream to stop it.

Gosnell got caught because he killed his adult patients and dealt drugs out of his clinic. The fact that it took decades to catch him tells me you are pissing in the wind.

So let's look at Gosnell. The Prosecutors started out claiming he killed hundreds of babies. After spending thousands of dollars examining pickled fetuses he didn't have the good sense to send to a medical waste landfill, they came up with maybe seven who might have taken a breath of air. That got knocked down to four by the judge. The jury only found him guilty on three, and then the prosecutors had to cut a sentencing deal with him so he didn't appeal his conviction to someone who could actually READ a law book.

They also had to give sweetheart deals to the people working at his clinic to get testimony against him.

Frankly, you guys would be in a lot of trouble if you tried that shit on a reputable doctor.

Awesome. Way to admit that you would place your opinions above the law. Let's all hope you never get called up for jury duty and deprive someone deserving of the seat.

Actually, I'm exactly the kind of person we need on juries... one that will stand up to silly laws and politically motivated prosecutions.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Well... you have a point.

The cost of bearing people's unwanted children is terribly expensive. And since human life is sacred and to devalue the unborn child, devalues the post born human... it follows that we, as a self governing people, have a serious public interests in governing the birth of children and the behavior which produces children.

Therefore, I say we outlaw abortion and set severe penalties, up to and including death for anyone who is found conceiving a child and not bearing 100% responsibility for it.

Reader, enjoy the caterwauling and crying by those here to lament the cost of bearing children and to advocate for the fleeing from any sense of responsibility for their willful and wanton behavior which is designed for no other purpose than the conception of children.

again, your quest to convince us you've never gotten laid in your life is meeting with great success. ...

Again... Your concession is duly noted and Summarily Accepted.

Reader, above is a classic demonstration of just how easy it is to defeat Leftist in Debate.

Defeating a Leftist in Debate rests upon two fundamental elements:
1 - Find a Leftist.
2 - Get them to speak.

 

[Blackrook]

Well, now the Democratic Party is ok with infanticide now?

The Germans went down this road in the 1930's and the Dutch are going down this road today.

At some point, no one is safe.

 

[JoeB131]

The law isn't about a fetus. It doesn't touch on viability or disabilities. It's about a living, screaming baby that just popped out of her mother's pussy. It says that the abortionist has no right to finish the job on a born, living person. Keep in mind that, up until now, birth was the standard beginning of personhood for the pro-choice position. We're moving that back because it's not convenient enough for you.

No, my position on this is exactly the same no matter what side of the Labia the fetus is on.

I'm not going to substitute my judgement for those of medical professionals and patients.

I didn't got to medical school for 8 years, and I don't have to support that disable, damaged child for the rest of his life.

Therefore, it's really none of my business.

and it's none of yours, and it's none of 400 White Guys in Congress' either.

 

[JoeB131]

gain... Your concession is duly noted and Summarily Accepted.

Reader, above is a classic demonstration of just how easy it is to defeat Leftist in Debate.

Defeating a Leftist in Debate rests upon two fundamental elements:
1 - Find a Leftist.
2 - Get them to speak.

Guy, I'm really sorry your lack of coitus has left you the misogynistic mess that you clearly are. I kind of feel bad for you.

You should probably get a hooker, but I can't think of one I dislike enough to wish you upon.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, now the Democratic Party is ok with infanticide now?

The Germans went down this road in the 1930's and the Dutch are going down this road today.

At some point, no one is safe.

YOu don't think doctors aren't already making these decisions now?

Again, look up "Cletus the Fetus".

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

No country has ever successfully outlawed abortion.

LOL! Nonsense.

The law against murder doesn't stop murder... it punishes people that murder.

Laws against Abortion are not designed to stop abortion, they're designed to punish people who commit the crime of abortion.

Not that you are capable of being educated, but you should really look up what happened when Romania tried to ban birth control and abortion in order to boost their population numbers.

It failed. Miserably. women found ways to beat the law.

The law is not designed to stop the crime. The Law is designed to punish those who commit the crime.

No charge for the lesson in Civics.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

gain... Your concession is duly noted and Summarily Accepted.

Reader, above is a classic demonstration of just how easy it is to defeat Leftist in Debate.

Defeating a Leftist in Debate rests upon two fundamental elements:
1 - Find a Leftist.
2 - Get them to speak.

Guy, I'm really sorry your lack of coitus has left you the misogynistic mess that you clearly are. I kind of feel bad for you.

You should probably get a hooker, but I can't think of one I dislike enough to wish you upon.

HEY! A Re-Concession? How sweet... .

Your Re-concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[rdean]

And now you want to try and tell me Obomination is a Christian???

Not the let him die right wing kind of Christian we've been seeing for the last 40 years.

Think about this legislation, his opposition to it, what JoeB said, and what you just said. "Let him die" is exactly what the opponents of this bill are championing. Let the baby die because you don't want to pay for her medical care after trying to kill her in the first place. Let her die on the table because her life only has value when you say it does.

Legislating based on doctored fake videos. NaziCons should be very proud.

Well, the House Taliban are certainly proving that justice is truly BLIND.

Why did you reply to yourself?

You do know it's Republicans who value the fetus over the mother.

 

[JoeB131]

This isn't about sex either. Please stop trying to derail and pretend to have some shred of the integrity the military clearly failed to instill in its NCOs.

Yeah, actually, guy it is about sex. It's always been about sex. it's about a bunch of religious assholes who are hung up about sex and women controlling their own lady parts.

And getting played by the one percent to vote against their own economic interests.

If you fuckheads were really, really serious about there being less abortions, you'd support family and medical leave, you'd support universal health care, you'd support comprehensive sex education and contraception.

But you don't. And you don't have the integrity to admit it.

And you don't blurt out things about "popping out of her pussy" and have any real chance to convince me you have some serious misogyny issues.

 

[JoeB131]

gain... Your concession is duly noted and Summarily Accepted.

Reader, above is a classic demonstration of just how easy it is to defeat Leftist in Debate.

Defeating a Leftist in Debate rests upon two fundamental elements:
1 - Find a Leftist.
2 - Get them to speak.

Guy, I'm really sorry your lack of coitus has left you the misogynistic mess that you clearly are. I kind of feel bad for you.

You should probably get a hooker, but I can't think of one I dislike enough to wish you upon.

HEY! A Re-Concession? How sweet... .

Your Re-concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Guy, you are kind of sad, man. You just OOOZE misogyny.
Well, you probably ooze other things, but let's not go there.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

This isn't about sex either. Please stop trying to derail and pretend to have some shred of the integrity the military clearly failed to instill in its NCOs.

Yeah, actually, guy it is about sex. It's always been about sex. it's about a bunch of religious assholes who are hung up about sex and women controlling their own lady parts.

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Here's a hint... 5000 years ago, it was EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN. And 5000 years ago, PEOPLE KNEW THAT IT WAS EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

That is, unless you need to claim that the recognition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS EXCLUSIVELY RELIGIOUS... which would be a pretty silly thing for a Pro-Life Atheist to claim. (And anyone else... for that matter... but particularly for those idiots.)

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

gain... Your concession is duly noted and Summarily Accepted.

Reader, above is a classic demonstration of just how easy it is to defeat Leftist in Debate.

Defeating a Leftist in Debate rests upon two fundamental elements:
1 - Find a Leftist.
2 - Get them to speak.

Guy, I'm really sorry your lack of coitus has left you the misogynistic mess that you clearly are. I kind of feel bad for you.

You should probably get a hooker, but I can't think of one I dislike enough to wish you upon.

HEY! A Re-Concession? How sweet... .

Your Re-concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Guy, you are kind of sad, man. You just OOOZE misogyny.
Well, you probably ooze other things, but let's not go there.

Oh MY! The Coveted Re-re-concession... COOL!

Your Re-re-concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.