The Dangerous Lie That ‘Bush Lied’

[Camp]

One thing is for certain, the left is responsible for this miserable excuse we have currently in the White House, furthermore, the current situation in the Mid East is theirs to shoulder. To think the lessons of withdrawal, vacuums, and emboldening ones adversary by conduct of failed leadership were never learned. What other purpose would someone drum up the issues and events of 13 years ago. Good luck with that.

Why do discussions about Bush lying us into war end up as Obama derangement threads?

Because the left deflec-drones when shown theyre wrong deflect to Obama.

You still have not answered the question of how Saddam gave aid and protection to al Qaeda. Until you answer that question everything you post is a deflection. I just posted the speech in it's entirety and a short video that captures the quote.

I dont recall ever making that claim. In fact I dont recall anyone outside of you making that claim. Why did you claim that?

Bush made the claim. I have been asking the Bush defenders to answer the question of how Saddam was giving aid and protection to al Qaeda as Bush told us he was doing in his 2003 State of the Union Address. None of you are ever able to answer the question.

 

[Harry Dresden]

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians. Of course it hurts the country, but it continues unabated because the American people accept it.

A good example of this is a known serial liar like Mrs. Clinton, is a front runner for 2016?

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians.
aint that the truth.....

 

[jasonnfree]

Yes, it is dangerous. But for dimocraps it's a convenient lie. A lie that Republicans are tired of fighting.

But it's time you realized that's what it is -- Just another lie from the party of lies --

From today's WSJ. I'd post a link, but you'll just run into a subscription wall

The Dangerous Lie That ‘Bush Lied’
Some journalists still peddle this canard as if it were fact. This is defamatory and could end up hurting the country.

President George W. Bush
By
LAURENCE H. SILBERMAN
Feb. 8, 2015 6:25 p.m. ET


In recent weeks, I have heard former Associated Press reporter Ron Fournier on Fox News twice asserting, quite offhandedly, that President George W. Bush “lied us into war in Iraq.”

I found this shocking. I took a leave of absence from the bench in 2004-05 to serve as co-chairman of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction—a bipartisan body, sometimes referred to as the Robb-Silberman Commission. It was directed in 2004 to evaluate the intelligence community’s determination that Saddam Hussein possessed WMD—I am, therefore, keenly aware of both the intelligence provided to President Bush and his reliance on that intelligence as his primary casus belli. It is astonishing to see the “Bush lied” allegation evolve from antiwar slogan to journalistic fact.

The intelligence community’s 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) stated, in a formal presentation to President Bush and to Congress, its view that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction—a belief in which the NIE said it held a 90% level of confidence. That is about as certain as the intelligence community gets on any subject.

Recall that the head of the intelligence community, Central Intelligence Agency Director George Tenet, famously told the president that the proposition that Iraq possessed WMD was “a slam dunk.” Our WMD commission carefully examined the interrelationships between the Bush administration and the intelligence community and found no indication that anyone in the administration sought to pressure the intelligence community into its findings. As our commission reported, presidential daily briefs from the CIA dating back to the Clinton administration were, if anything, more alarmist about Iraq’s WMD than the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate.

Saddam had manifested sharp hostility toward America, including firing at U.S. planes patrolling the no-fly zone set up by the armistice agreement ending the first Iraq war. Saddam had also attempted to assassinate former President George H.W. Bush —a car-bombing plot was foiled—during Mr. Bush’s visit to Kuwait in 1993. But President George W. Bush based his decision to go to war on information about Saddam’s WMD. Accordingly, when Secretary of State Colin Powell formally presented the U.S. case to the United Nations, Mr. Powell relied entirely on that aspect of the threat from Iraq.

Our WMD commission ultimately determined that the intelligence community was “dead wrong” about Saddam’s weapons. But as I recall, no one in Washington political circles offered significant disagreement with the intelligence community before the invasion. The National Intelligence Estimate was persuasive—to the president, to Congress and to the media.

Granted, there were those who disagreed with waging war against Saddam even if he did possess WMD. Some in Congress joined Brent Scowcroft, a retired Air Force lieutenant general and former national security adviser, in publicly doubting the wisdom of invading Iraq. It is worth noting, however, that when Saddam was captured and interrogated, he told his interrogators that he had intended to seek revenge on Kuwait for its cooperation with the U.S. by invading again at a propitious time. This leads me to speculate that if the Bush administration had not gone to war in 2003 and Saddam had remained in power, the U.S. might have felt compelled to do so once Iraq again invaded Kuwait.

In any event, it is one thing to assert, then or now, that the Iraq war was ill-advised. It is quite another to make the horrendous charge that President Bush lied to or deceived the American people about the threat from Saddam.

I recently wrote to Ron Fournier protesting his accusation. His response, in an email, was to reiterate that “an objective reading of the events leads to only one conclusion: the administration . . . misinterpreted, distorted and in some cases lied about intelligence.” Although Mr. Fournier referred to “evidence” supporting his view, he did not cite any—and I do not believe there is any.

He did say correctly that “intelligence is never dispositive; it requires analysis and judgment, with the final call and responsibility resting with the president.” It is thus certainly possible to criticize President Bush for having believed what the CIA told him, although it seems to me that any president would have credited such confident assertions by the intelligence community. But to accuse the president of lying us into war must be seen as not only false, but as dangerously defamatory.

The charge is dangerous because it can take on the air of historical fact—with potentially dire consequences. I am reminded of a similarly baseless accusation that helped the Nazis come to power in Germany: that the German army had not really lost World War I, that the soldiers instead had been “stabbed in the back” by politicians.

Sometime in the future, perhaps long after most of us are gone, an American president may need to rely publicly on intelligence reports to support military action. It would be tragic if, at such a critical moment, the president’s credibility were undermined by memories of a false charge peddled by the likes of Ron Fournier.

Mr. Silberman, a senior federal judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, was co-chairman of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Keep telling this crap often enough and some will believe it. I give "E" for effort.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Jesus fucking Christ, you're still trying to sell this "bad intelligence" bullshit? Move the fuck on with life already!

Desperately trying to sell this "bad intelligence" bull shit.
And if it ain't the "bad intelligence" that made Bush sell us the war, it's the Democrats. You know, the democrats that were as stupid as the Republicans in signing off on invading Iraq. It's those Dems fault. It's Saddam's fault.

Have you ever noticed that there is NOTHING that is ever the Republicans fault? At least in their (Repubs) pea brains nothing is their fault.

If you don't believe my, take a look at a post by edgy. Everything that Republicans do, when it turns out to be a failure, which by my estimation is 100% of the time, it is ALWAYS someone else's fault.
Right edgy?
The invasion of Iraq WAS Obama's fault BECAUSE he didn't stop Bush from invading. Isn't that correct edgy?
Or was it ALL the Dems fault because they didn't stop the Republicans from invading Iraq?
Was it all Obama's fault or was it all the Democrats fault? Which one is it.

And while we are blaming Dems, lets just cut to the chase and BLAME Democrats for everything. Makes it easier that way.

if you notice zeke the farther right people always blame the democrats and the farther left people always blame the republicans for every negative thing that happens in this country.....aint the people at the ends of the spectrum wonderful?....it would be nice if they would just vanish overnight.....

 

[Liminal]

Amazing how you were able to watch a 22 minute video in five minutes. You really are a quick study.

Seen the video many times here as the far left has tried many times to use it to justify their religious propaganda..

Uh-huh, sure you have.

So you think you are the only one to ever post this on this board?

WOW see how the far left drones think that they are the first to post anything.

Yet still the video does not support the far left propaganda being spammed on this board/thread, but does back the OP.

Powell's remarks don't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for the decision to invade Iraq.

Yet does NOT support the far left propaganda being posted..

However does support the OP..

See how the far left will watch the world burn than admit they are wrong!

I'm not very interested in whether or not Bush lied, he's a politician so I assume that he lied every day. His advisers read the intelligence the way they wanted to, and Bush followed their advise; simple as that. I never considered him clever enough to construct a very complicated lie on his own. I'm more concerned about the results of his ill considered decisions, which we will continue to deal with for many years to come. They kicked the ant hill apart and then they wonder why these little fuckers are running around all over the place.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

BB 10721836

Obama is to blame for the civil war. Who pulled troops out of Iraq, Bush or Obama?

Bush did indeed set the date when they all had to go. Bush was not man enough to get a ten year SOFA like Obama was able to do in Afghanistan.

Maliki is mostly to blame for corrupting and weakening the ISF that could not defend Mosul and Tikrit. Anbar Province was never really resolved and Maliki agitated the Sunni/Shia problems there.

Obama had no way to prevent the DAIISH assault from its base in Syria. Unless you accept that an option was to re-invade Iraq and topple the Maliki regime which would have meant resistance from the Shia militias.

It is rather ignorant to blame Obama for what the DAIISH terrorist scum have done in Iraq and Syria.

 

[Liminal]

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians. Of course it hurts the country, but it continues unabated because the American people accept it.

A good example of this is a known serial liar like Mrs. Clinton, is a front runner for 2016?

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians.
aint that the truth.....

Nearly?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Yes, it is dangerous. But for dimocraps it's a convenient lie. A lie that Republicans are tired of fighting.

But it's time you realized that's what it is -- Just another lie from the party of lies --

From today's WSJ. I'd post a link, but you'll just run into a subscription wall

The Dangerous Lie That ‘Bush Lied’
Some journalists still peddle this canard as if it were fact. This is defamatory and could end up hurting the country.

President George W. Bush
By
LAURENCE H. SILBERMAN
Feb. 8, 2015 6:25 p.m. ET


In recent weeks, I have heard former Associated Press reporter Ron Fournier on Fox News twice asserting, quite offhandedly, that President George W. Bush “lied us into war in Iraq.”

I found this shocking. I took a leave of absence from the bench in 2004-05 to serve as co-chairman of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction—a bipartisan body, sometimes referred to as the Robb-Silberman Commission. It was directed in 2004 to evaluate the intelligence community’s determination that Saddam Hussein possessed WMD—I am, therefore, keenly aware of both the intelligence provided to President Bush and his reliance on that intelligence as his primary casus belli. It is astonishing to see the “Bush lied” allegation evolve from antiwar slogan to journalistic fact.

The intelligence community’s 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) stated, in a formal presentation to President Bush and to Congress, its view that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction—a belief in which the NIE said it held a 90% level of confidence. That is about as certain as the intelligence community gets on any subject.

Recall that the head of the intelligence community, Central Intelligence Agency Director George Tenet, famously told the president that the proposition that Iraq possessed WMD was “a slam dunk.” Our WMD commission carefully examined the interrelationships between the Bush administration and the intelligence community and found no indication that anyone in the administration sought to pressure the intelligence community into its findings. As our commission reported, presidential daily briefs from the CIA dating back to the Clinton administration were, if anything, more alarmist about Iraq’s WMD than the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate.

Saddam had manifested sharp hostility toward America, including firing at U.S. planes patrolling the no-fly zone set up by the armistice agreement ending the first Iraq war. Saddam had also attempted to assassinate former President George H.W. Bush —a car-bombing plot was foiled—during Mr. Bush’s visit to Kuwait in 1993. But President George W. Bush based his decision to go to war on information about Saddam’s WMD. Accordingly, when Secretary of State Colin Powell formally presented the U.S. case to the United Nations, Mr. Powell relied entirely on that aspect of the threat from Iraq.

Our WMD commission ultimately determined that the intelligence community was “dead wrong” about Saddam’s weapons. But as I recall, no one in Washington political circles offered significant disagreement with the intelligence community before the invasion. The National Intelligence Estimate was persuasive—to the president, to Congress and to the media.

Granted, there were those who disagreed with waging war against Saddam even if he did possess WMD. Some in Congress joined Brent Scowcroft, a retired Air Force lieutenant general and former national security adviser, in publicly doubting the wisdom of invading Iraq. It is worth noting, however, that when Saddam was captured and interrogated, he told his interrogators that he had intended to seek revenge on Kuwait for its cooperation with the U.S. by invading again at a propitious time. This leads me to speculate that if the Bush administration had not gone to war in 2003 and Saddam had remained in power, the U.S. might have felt compelled to do so once Iraq again invaded Kuwait.

In any event, it is one thing to assert, then or now, that the Iraq war was ill-advised. It is quite another to make the horrendous charge that President Bush lied to or deceived the American people about the threat from Saddam.

I recently wrote to Ron Fournier protesting his accusation. His response, in an email, was to reiterate that “an objective reading of the events leads to only one conclusion: the administration . . . misinterpreted, distorted and in some cases lied about intelligence.” Although Mr. Fournier referred to “evidence” supporting his view, he did not cite any—and I do not believe there is any.

He did say correctly that “intelligence is never dispositive; it requires analysis and judgment, with the final call and responsibility resting with the president.” It is thus certainly possible to criticize President Bush for having believed what the CIA told him, although it seems to me that any president would have credited such confident assertions by the intelligence community. But to accuse the president of lying us into war must be seen as not only false, but as dangerously defamatory.

The charge is dangerous because it can take on the air of historical fact—with potentially dire consequences. I am reminded of a similarly baseless accusation that helped the Nazis come to power in Germany: that the German army had not really lost World War I, that the soldiers instead had been “stabbed in the back” by politicians.

Sometime in the future, perhaps long after most of us are gone, an American president may need to rely publicly on intelligence reports to support military action. It would be tragic if, at such a critical moment, the president’s credibility were undermined by memories of a false charge peddled by the likes of Ron Fournier.

Mr. Silberman, a senior federal judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, was co-chairman of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Keep telling this crap often enough and some will believe it. I give "E" for effort.

Actually we can credit Karl Rove for creating the Bush narrative. Anyone remember the book, "Bush's Brain"?

 

[The Rabbi]

One thing is for certain, the left is responsible for this miserable excuse we have currently in the White House, furthermore, the current situation in the Mid East is theirs to shoulder. To think the lessons of withdrawal, vacuums, and emboldening ones adversary by conduct of failed leadership were never learned. What other purpose would someone drum up the issues and events of 13 years ago. Good luck with that.

Why do discussions about Bush lying us into war end up as Obama derangement threads?

Because the left deflec-drones when shown theyre wrong deflect to Obama.

You still have not answered the question of how Saddam gave aid and protection to al Qaeda. Until you answer that question everything you post is a deflection. I just posted the speech in it's entirety and a short video that captures the quote.

I dont recall ever making that claim. In fact I dont recall anyone outside of you making that claim. Why did you claim that?

Bush made the claim. I have been asking the Bush defenders to answer the question of how Saddam was giving aid and protection to al Qaeda as Bush told us he was doing in his 2003 State of the Union Address. None of you are ever able to answer the question.

You're simply lying. Bush never made that claim. Post the evidence of STFU.

 

[The Rabbi]

Seen the video many times here as the far left has tried many times to use it to justify their religious propaganda..

Uh-huh, sure you have.

So you think you are the only one to ever post this on this board?

WOW see how the far left drones think that they are the first to post anything.

Yet still the video does not support the far left propaganda being spammed on this board/thread, but does back the OP.

Powell's remarks don't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for the decision to invade Iraq.

Yet does NOT support the far left propaganda being posted..

However does support the OP..

See how the far left will watch the world burn than admit they are wrong!

I'm not very interested in whether or not Bush lied, he's a politician so I assume that he lied every day. His advisers read the intelligence the way they wanted to, and Bush followed their advise; simple as that. I never considered him clever enough to construct a very complicated lie on his own. I'm more concerned about the results of his ill considered decisions, which we will continue to deal with for many years to come. They kicked the ant hill apart and then they wonder why these little fuckers are running around all over the place.

I would be nice if occasionally you would let some facts get in the way of your thinking.
Bush had higher grades in college than Obama did.

 

[Liminal]

Uh-huh, sure you have.

So you think you are the only one to ever post this on this board?

WOW see how the far left drones think that they are the first to post anything.

Yet still the video does not support the far left propaganda being spammed on this board/thread, but does back the OP.

Powell's remarks don't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for the decision to invade Iraq.

Yet does NOT support the far left propaganda being posted..

However does support the OP..

See how the far left will watch the world burn than admit they are wrong!

I'm not very interested in whether or not Bush lied, he's a politician so I assume that he lied every day. His advisers read the intelligence the way they wanted to, and Bush followed their advise; simple as that. I never considered him clever enough to construct a very complicated lie on his own. I'm more concerned about the results of his ill considered decisions, which we will continue to deal with for many years to come. They kicked the ant hill apart and then they wonder why these little fuckers are running around all over the place.

I would be nice if occasionally you would let some facts get in the way of your thinking.
Bush had higher grades in college than Obama did.

That's very interesting. How did you do in school?

 

[Paperman299]

Study Bush aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war - CNN.com

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

...The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

 

[Ravi]

Bottom line, Bush lied us into a wasteful war and facilitated the worst financial crisis in our history.

Even so, he was better that Ronnie the failed actor (failed except when it came to fooling RWNJs).

 

[The Rabbi]

So you think you are the only one to ever post this on this board?

WOW see how the far left drones think that they are the first to post anything.

Yet still the video does not support the far left propaganda being spammed on this board/thread, but does back the OP.

Powell's remarks don't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for the decision to invade Iraq.

Yet does NOT support the far left propaganda being posted..

However does support the OP..

See how the far left will watch the world burn than admit they are wrong!

I'm not very interested in whether or not Bush lied, he's a politician so I assume that he lied every day. His advisers read the intelligence the way they wanted to, and Bush followed their advise; simple as that. I never considered him clever enough to construct a very complicated lie on his own. I'm more concerned about the results of his ill considered decisions, which we will continue to deal with for many years to come. They kicked the ant hill apart and then they wonder why these little fuckers are running around all over the place.

I would be nice if occasionally you would let some facts get in the way of your thinking.
Bush had higher grades in college than Obama did.

That's very interesting. How did you do in school?

I was graduated magna cum laude. Were you a gold star student? Or did you get a trophy just for showing up?

 

[The Rabbi]

Study Bush aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war - CNN.com

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

...The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bullshit story that proves nothing.

 

[Harry Dresden]

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians. Of course it hurts the country, but it continues unabated because the American people accept it.

A good example of this is a known serial liar like Mrs. Clinton, is a front runner for 2016?

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians.
aint that the truth.....

Nearly?

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians. Of course it hurts the country, but it continues unabated because the American people accept it.

A good example of this is a known serial liar like Mrs. Clinton, is a front runner for 2016?

All presidents lie...as do nearly all politicians.
aint that the truth.....

Nearly?

thats what he said.....

 

[Paperman299]

Study Bush aides made 935 false statements in run-up to war - CNN.com

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials -- including Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of State Colin Powell and then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice -- made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

...The study says Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq's links to al Qaeda.

Bullshit story that proves nothing.

Search the 935 Iraq War false statements Center for Public Integrity

You can search through the statements yourself. The last one is especially relevant to your interests:

These 24 months have been a time of progress against the enemy. Terrorists have lost their training camps in Afghanistan. They lost the protection of the Taliban. Al Qaeda has lost nearly two-thirds of its known leaders. They've either been captured, or they've been killed. Terror networks have lost access to some $200 million, which we have frozen or seized in more than 1,400 terrorist accounts around the world. The terrorists have lost a sponsor in Iraq. And no terrorist networks will ever gain weapons of mass destruction from Saddam Hussein's regime.

And we acted in Iraq, where the former regime sponsored terror, possessed and used weapons of mass destruction, and for 12 years defied the clear demands of the United Nations Security Council. [text omitted] For the Middle East and the world, there will be no going back to the days of fear, when a brutal and aggressive tyrant possessed terrible weapons.

The threat comes from Iraq. It arises directly from the Iraqi regime's own actions -- its history of aggression, and its drive toward an arsenal of terror. Eleven years ago, as a condition for ending the Persian Gulf War, the Iraqi regime was required to destroy its weapons of mass destruction, to cease all development of such weapons, and to stop all support for terrorist groups. The Iraqi regime has violated all of those obligations. It possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. It has given shelter and support to terrorism, and practices terror against its own people. The entire world has witnessed Iraq's eleven-year history of defiance, deception and bad faith.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Limin 10722867

His advisers read the intelligence the way they wanted to, and Bush followed their advise; simple as that.

Nothing is "simple as that" when Bush's decision got 4484 American soldiers killed, ten times that wounded and tens of thousands if Iraqis killed and millions displaced, not to mention all the destroyed property and billions of dollars wasted.

Bush made a decision to put an end to UN inspections and peaceful disarmament in order to start a war. He based it on a lie _ that he had undoubtable intelligence on March 17 2003 that Iraq was hiding WMD from UN inspectors. If he had it Bush was obligated to give it to the inspectors to verify it.

 

[Liminal]

Powell's remarks don't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement for the decision to invade Iraq.

Yet does NOT support the far left propaganda being posted..

However does support the OP..

See how the far left will watch the world burn than admit they are wrong!

I'm not very interested in whether or not Bush lied, he's a politician so I assume that he lied every day. His advisers read the intelligence the way they wanted to, and Bush followed their advise; simple as that. I never considered him clever enough to construct a very complicated lie on his own. I'm more concerned about the results of his ill considered decisions, which we will continue to deal with for many years to come. They kicked the ant hill apart and then they wonder why these little fuckers are running around all over the place.

I would be nice if occasionally you would let some facts get in the way of your thinking.
Bush had higher grades in college than Obama did.

That's very interesting. How did you do in school?

I was graduated magna cum laude. Were you a gold star student? Or did you get a trophy just for showing up?

My best educational experiences have always come from listening to really smart people like you.

 

[Lakhota]