The "death" of the Republican Party will "save" America.

[M.D. Rawlings]

Actually, my morality comes EXACTLY from the constitution, which is heavy on protecting individual rights.

So if I want an abortion, (which admittably would be hard, given my lack of uterus) I can get one. The constitution says so.

The constitution says you don't have the right to make my kid recite praises to your imaginary sky friend in the school I'm paying for through taxes.

Actually, beyond the ethics of the socio-political philosophy expressed in the Declaration of Independence, which should guide our interpretation of the Constitution, the morality of the latter is neutral.

A collectivist by nature cannot be bothered to regard the individual rights of others; he must necessarily disregard them as he jams everybody into his one-size-fits-all monstrosities. Hence, what lefty does is pretend that others are impeding the free exercise of his rights when, in fact, they're merely resisting the monetary or institutional impositions he exerts against the uninhibited exercise of their rights. We needn't fret over lefty's famously never-ending fits of outrage; his noise is that of the pickpocket who protests too much.

As for abortion, let us be exact: a women has had the right to murder here unborn child on demand in all states since 1973 as a result of the leftist Warren Court's discovering of the mysterious principle of privacy in a matter involving the life of another nearly two-hundred years after the ratification of the Constitution.

The Constitution's silence on the matter is deafening. Prior to Roe v. Wade it was understood that the matter had been left to the several states in accordance with the command of the Tenth Amendment. Roe v. Wade is bad law—lefty imposing his will universally via the judiciary when he couldn't get his way legislatively. Note that lefty undermines the sanctify of human life, one of the bedrock principles of our founding. He proposes a right for one that ends the life of another. It is the legitimacy of such a right under natural and constitutional law relative to the Tenth Amendment that is being challenge by classical liberals here; the challenge is not merely the stuff of an alleged imposition on women. I'm aware that lefty chooses to see it as an imposition, but his intellectual evasiveness is annoying.

Since I have no interest in compelling your kid to do anything contrary to your values in the public schools (unlike lefty, who insists on imposing everything from his collectivist tripe to Angie has Two Mommies in the same), your point is moot.

Aside from his debatable claim that the objection to abortion on demand is leveled against a legitimate human right (debatable considering that it involves the destruction of innocent human life for the sake of convenience), and the new claim that same-sex couples are entitled to an official approbation of their unions, in spite of the fact that they are free to "marry" or form whatever contract they please, lefty can point to no other instances in which the classical liberal seeks to impose anything on him whatsoever.

It is only lefty who seeks to impose and trample and silence, for example, his insistence that others pay for his abortions and contraceptives, i.e., subsidize his lifestyle and call it a war on women if they object. Screw their religious convictions. It is only lefty who insists on a collectivist system of public education instead of honoring the natural and constitutional rights of all in an open system and then has the temerity to complain about things that others want and would gladly have in the schools of their choice away from his kids if only he would let them go! In short, he argues that the essences of only his convictions may be legitimately honored or expressed in the schools, but pays no mind to the fact that these things are often offensive to others.

As I said before, lefty lacks intellectual empathy.

It's really pretty simple.

Not for lefty. What is readily self-evident to others frays the shallow reaches of his mindset.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Not at the cost of the lives of others.

Yes, it is pretty simple. A baby is an individual who has a right to live. #1 protected freedom of the Constitution.

1) Fetuses aren't babies.

2) As long as that fetus is in a woman, it's HER decision what to do with it.

3) No law you come up with would ever change point #2.

 

[JoeB131]

A collectivist by nature cannot be bothered to regard the individual rights of others; he must necessarily disregard them as he jams everybody into his one-size-fits-all monstrosities. Hence, what lefty does is pretend that others are impeding the free exercise of his rights when, in fact, they're merely resisting the monetary or institutional impositions he exerts against the uninhibited exercise of their rights. We needn't fret over lefty's famously never-ending fits of outrage; his noise is that of the pickpocket who protests too much.

Horseshit.

As for abortion, let us be exact: a women has had the right to murder here unborn child on demand in all states since 1973 as a result of the leftist Warren Court's discovering of the mysterious principle of privacy in a matter involving the life of another nearly two-hundred years after the ratification of the Constitution. ..

The "Leftist" Warren Court that made that decision was largely Republican appointees made by Nixon and Eisenhower. And all they were really doing was bowing to reality. Women were having abortions, doctors were performing them and the laws were not really being enforced. All they did was strike down laws everyone was ignoring to start with.

Since I have no interest in compelling your kid to do anything contrary to your values in the public schools (unlike lefty, who insists on imposing everything from his collectivist tripe to Angie has Two Mommies in the same), your point is moot..

I think it was Heather has two Mommies, and what's wrong with teaching your kids not be hateful little fucks? It would be nice to teach them that at home, but until we can expunged your magic sky pixie from the body politic, we have to help where we can.

Aside from his debatable claim that the objection to abortion on demand is leveled against a legitimate human right (debatable considering that it involves the destruction of innocent human life for the sake of convenience), and the new claim that same-sex couples are entitled to an official approbation of their unions, in spite of the fact that they are free to "marry" or form whatever contract they please, lefty can point to no other instances in which the classical liberal seeks to impose anything on him whatsoever. .

Aren't those two things enough.

Hey, if you don't want abortion or gay marriage, no one is making you have them, as much as your possible replication is frightening in a Darwinian sense. (Where are Sabre-Tooth Cats when you need them to get rid of the stupid?)

 

[koshergrl]

Sure it's her decision what to do with it, just as it's my decision what to do with my children.

That doesn't mean I have the *right* to kill them, nor does it mean she has the *right* to kill hers.

 

[JoeB131]

Sure it's her decision what to do with it, just as it's my decision what to do with my children.

That doesn't mean I have the *right* to kill them, nor does it mean she has the *right* to kill hers.

As long as it's in her body, she does.

And as a practical matter, how are you going to stop it?

 

[koshergrl]

*yawn*

 

[JoeB131]

*yawn*

Duly noted you can't answer the question of how you make your abortion laws work.

For the record- If you ever ban abortion, I will start a business of smuggling RU-486 into this country.

If I'm ever called to a jury for an aboriton case, I will vote Not Guilty even if they have film of the abortion being performed.

About half the country will feel this way, so your laws are meaningless.

 

[koshergrl]

No, I'm just not going to go down the abortion route with you on this particular thread.

It's just a diversionary tactic.

 

[JoeB131]

No, I'm just not going to go down the abortion route with you on this particular thread.

It's just a diversionary tactic.

Not at all.

The problem is, the reason why the GOP is in trouble of being extinct is because it has put crazy ideas like "We need a government small enough to fit inside a woman's hoo-ha" above the things that actually make sense.

There's a lot about the GOP I agree with. Government shouldn't spend more than it takes in, it should encourage business and individual responsibility, it should be limited in it's scope and power, and it should stand for strong defense.

All of which gets drowned out when you scream "MURDERER!!!! SLUT!!!!" at a woman taking a birth control pill

 

[koshergrl]

Oh here we go with the demeaning vaginal imagery again.

Yee haw.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh here we go with the demeaning vaginal imagery again.

Yee haw.

Just pointing out the ludicrousness of trying to regulate that when bridges are falling down, schools aren't doing their jobs, and thousands of jobs are being sent overseas, and the most important thing to some people is that some woman might be enjoying sex without being burdened with an unwanted baby.

 

[daveman]

Oh here we go with the demeaning vaginal imagery again.

Yee haw.

I saw a comment on Facebook:

"Republican women should picket the DNC dressed as brains."

 

[JoeB131]

Oh here we go with the demeaning vaginal imagery again.

Yee haw.

I saw a comment on Facebook:

"Republican women should picket the DNC dressed as brains."

Right, because people who see them as life support systems for uteri really respect their "brains".

 

[koshergrl]

That's right, we should take a cue from the people who want them to continue generating $$ for Dem camaigns via baby killing, and just think of the as "vaginas".

 

[candycorn]

.

You could be right. Political Correctness and Identity Politics have been very effective strategies for the Democrats, dividing people into little groups. The GOP may have to go in that direction to survive, we'll see.

.

Bizarre. Democrats aren't "dividing" people into little groups. The Democrats are "attracting" little groups to become the Democratic Party.

Republicans are 90% white. Hardly divided into "little groups". No one "identifies" more with the Republicans than "whites". To Republicans, everyone else is "them" and "foreign".

100% correct. Of course..this isn't all Republicans..but the ones that still feel that non-christians/white/straight people are still Americans..are being pushed out of the Republican party..and very quickly.

I don't welcome the "death" of the Republican party..far from it. I actually agree with old guard Republicans on many issues. But this nativist, theocratic, and confederate wing needs to be purged. We need a loyal opposition dedicated to expressing rational, alternative views that make sense.

Anytime there are more voices from the sensible center of the political spectrum, we all win, I feel.

However, I do feel that the GOP as we know it is in danger of being irrevocably split as the TEA party pushes the entire party to the right therefore abandoning that sensible center.

Good news for democrats I suppose. Not good for those who enjoy choices between legitimate political parties.

 

[JoeB131]

That's right, we should take a cue from the people who want them to continue generating $$ for Dem camaigns via baby killing, and just think of the as "vaginas".

I really wonder where all these women are being kidnapped off the street and having abortions forced on them...

Last time I checked, these women made a choice to get rid of the unwanted pregnancies, and that's their right.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Anytime there are more voices from the sensible center of the political spectrum, we all win, I feel.

However, I do feel that the GOP as we know it is in danger of being irrevocably split as the TEA party pushes the entire party to the right therefore abandoning that sensible center.

Good news for democrats I suppose. Not good for those who enjoy choices between legitimate political parties.

I'm sorry, but you're a silly, foolish person. Just vote Democrat and go with the hard left. If you can read the likes of JoeB, Sallow and rdean and not see the sociopathy, the utter depravity of the Democratic Party's base, the real extremism in this country, then good riddance. The Tea Party is the founding American ethos. It's coalition, the sensible and moral core of the nation.

Further, it is the Goldwater-Reagan faction of the Republican Party that led the same from decades of minority status to national victory, not the old, wishy-washy moderate-to-liberal, northeastern establishment from which it wrested the Party. Because we would not back down, just go along to get along with leftist popular culture, it is we who fought for the unborn and turned the tide of sentiment regarding abortion on demand in this country! It is Fox News that hands down dominates, with more viewership than MSNBC and CNN combined, with ratings far ahead of any two of the three major network news outlets. It is conservative talk radio that commands the airwaves. For decades, pole after pole has continued to show that the plurality of the population identify with conservatives, not with moderates or liberals.

To throw away that position after decades of leftist political hegemony in government and in the media, and embrace your ill-defined and ever-shifting doggerel would be suicide. What the hell are you prattling on about? The victorious Republican Party hasn't been your loser "sensible center" for decades. The wining, conservative base of the Party isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You jackass "moderates" have been talking this nonsense for four decades, and every time the Republican Party moves toward you, it loses its way and its hold on government. When the Republican Party first established a strong pro-life platform under Reagan, you claimed that the base's allegedly extreme position would drive Americans away. For someone who lives and dies by popularity contests rather than principle, you haven't been paying very close attention to the fact that we are winning that argument.

The sensible center? So the classical liberalism of the Founders is lost forever? The success story of Reagan's governance and that of the mostly Republican-controlled Congress during the 80s and 90s are gone forever, to never be realized again? You think objective reality is subject to the whimsies of the latest trends or fads, that the principles of the Founders are not universal imperatives after all?

Make no mistake about. Driven by the ideology of the base, if Romney wins the election and especially if the Republicans manage to take back the Senate, the economy will be humming within a year or two, unmistakably headed in the right direction before his first term is up. The poverty rate will drop. The middleclass will be revived. That will change the political map dramatically, with moderate-to-conservative Democrats and Independents once again supporting the so-called extreme, right-wing faction of things either consciously or in effect for at least another good decade or two. All that has happened in America is that the lessons learned by baby boomers during the 1980's-and-'90's economic boom, after Reagan's policies got this nation out of the 70% and 40% high and low brackets of taxation and the subsequent stagflation of the 1970s, have been lost on the latest generation especially.

These are the no-nothings who think that just because a Republican happened to be in the White House at the time of the economic downturn, it must have been the fundamentals of Republican economics that caused it. As always, praying on ignorance, that was the leftist theme of the 2012 DNC after all. The reasons for the housing and financial collapses are infinitely more complex and had nothing to do with the fundamentals of lazier fair economics. They had nothing to do with any lack of regulation or with the rich not paying 3% to 4% more in taxes as Clinton himself knows and has said so in spite of his new rhetoric at the DNC! And they sure as hell had nothing to do with the lack of trillions of more dollars of debt.

LMAO!

It is an Obama victory that you should be concerned about more than anything else, for it will be close and that would spell disaster for the Union and sensible policies alright. And it would not be the Tea Party's fault if that happened, but the fault of idiots like you who are blown by the winds of popular culture and its rhetoric, or cannot learn from 4 years of decline: as if Obama's four million new jobs were not in fact a net loss of nearly 10 million, as if the economy has not shrunk overall during his tenor, as if the rate of poverty is not higher, as if millions more are not on food stamps and welfare since he took office, as if the economy were in recovery in any sense but the most technical, as if he cut the national debt in half, as if any of his other promises could ever be anything more than the squander of staggering debt with nothing to show for it. . . . As if the economy wouldn't have already recovered in the truest sense had he not hampered it with discredited Keynesianism. In this case it is the policies of the sitting president that made things worse, directly and emphatically worse, especially for future generations.

The most troubling trend in America today is that the political platform of the Tea Party is perceived to be extreme by too many, though not by as many as you imagine given its victories in 2010. HELLO! You need to lay off the propaganda that passes for news in the leftist mainstream media.

God save us from sensible moderates.

Sir, reality is not relative. Fail to follow the socio-political ramifications of Judeo-Christianity's moral system of thought, for that is what the founding American ethos is, whether you know it or not, whether you properly understand it or not, and you will fail. The more our society reflects it, the more successful and prosperous it will be.

If it fades away from the American psyche entirely, this nation is finished anyway. You measure sensibleness in terms of popular culture, in terms of trends and fads, both real and imagined, in terms of an ever-shifting position on an artificial scale, but the original center of American politics is that of the Tea Party, the socio-political ideology of America's founding.

It's just the zenith of civilization in the history of the world!

We remaining classical liberals are the only thing keeping this nation from running off the rails altogether, you ignoramus!

The history of the world is rise, decline and fall, over and over and over again! IT WAS NEITHER YOUR "SENSIBLE" CENTER NOR THE INSANITY OF THE HARD LEFT THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RISE OF AMERICA.

Your foolishness is only surpassed by the deranged, utterly irredeemable stupidity of the hard left to which you pander.

Dude! Snap out of it!

Your sensible center is not worth fighting for. It is merely a slower rate of decline in the cycle of civilizations as compared to the pagan materialism/secular humanism of old, the stuff of depravity and tyranny, discredited by history, relegated to the ash heap and now resurrected by barbarians, the self-anointed, supposedly enlightened leftists. They are the backward, buck-tooth hillbillies among us, parading about in the soiled diapers of ancient affectations and myths as if they were something new. Our ancestors came to America to get away from all that, that which Europe, for example, has never been able to entirely shake off.

 

[koshergrl]

That's right, we should take a cue from the people who want them to continue generating $$ for Dem camaigns via baby killing, and just think of the as "vaginas".

I really wonder where all these women are being kidnapped off the street and having abortions forced on them...

Last time I checked, these women made a choice to get rid of the unwanted pregnancies, and that's their right.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Zj9yx2j0Y"]Planned Parenthood Manager Offers to Help Sex Ring, Gets Fired - YouTube[/ame]

But to a die-hard, abortion-supporting lefty, you think of women as chattel anyway, sex rings and human trafficking is just "choice" in action.

 

[Dot Com]

Allie has it in for Planned Parenthood?!!! Shocker

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Societies- including Islamic ones- outlawed murder without the bible. Everyone kind of agrees murder is wrong. And the bible thinks all sorts of people should be killed- gays, adulterers, blasphemers, people picking up sticks on the sabbath. So they aren't against killing, just murder.

Your understanding of biblical history—relative to the historical setting of the ancients, the realities of resources and infrastructure—is all wrong. Your assessment is naive . . . sophomoric, really.

The earliest Hebrews of Mosaic Law were nomads. There were no prisons, you idiot, and factions hostile to the law of the people, the essence of its government, would readily break off from the main population to become marauding bandits and killers, preying on isolated parties of the core tribe or fomenting disastrous civil wars. In fact, the Hebrews were almost undone by the latter on more than one occasion. God did not bring the Hebrews out of captivity only for them to destroy themselves or be destroyed by others.

Which is more merciful and loving?

The stupidity of your thoughtless license and lenancy in the face of such stark challenges and the subsequent annihilation of a people, or the wisdom of zero tolerance of certain behavior for the sake of their survival?

Answer: an unflinching imposition of capital punishment for certain crimes was necessary for the tribe's very survival, especially since the Hebrews were surrounded by hostile, idolatrous tribal-nations that practiced human sacrifice and sexual perversion, including infanticide and pedophilia, as common religious rites.

By definition, self-defense, capitol punishment and the killing of warfare are not murder, not under Mosaic Law, Christian Law, natural law or the secular rule of law in democratic societies.

And the Bible doesn't think that all sorts of people should be killed, the Bible is a collection of inspired writings. It's a thing, not a sentient creature, you idiot. Your habitually careless thought processes are reflected in your writing.

Murder, of course, homosexuality, adultery and blasphemy were all capitol crimes to be sure and still are, really, in the spiritual sense, as were perjury, the defamation of the Sabbath and rebellion against legitimate parental authority. Only a fool would believe that a nomadic tribe of monotheists could survive in such a primitive setting, this sea of pagans, where such behavior and their subsequent repercussions (given human nature, an on-going chain of revenge, rebellion and ruin) went unchecked among their number. . . . Once again, there were no prisons!

Nevertheless, the essence of the biblical moral code is to prefer mercy, forgiveness and rehabilitation over punishment or incarceration if possible, and humane punishment or incarceration when not. The Christian law of grace entails an emphatic distinction between the primitive and ideal setting, and its socio-political ramifications call for a secular rule of law providing for universal individual liberty under which only crimes against life, liberty or property are potentially capitol offenses depending on both the setting and the severity of the violation.

Like I said before, lefty is a nitwit, forever prattling on about nuance and the supposed closed-minded thought processes of the absolutist, but it is the relativist's head over which the nuances of reality fly. Truth is absolute, alright, and reality is governed by certain universal principles . . . of infinite complexity. It is relativism, with its simple-minded, irrational and inexplicable contention that two or more diametrically opposed ideas can both be true at the same time, in the same way, within the same frame of reference that leads to the confused and stunted, black-n-white thought processes exhibited by JoeB.

JoeB is just rattling on about a towering body of religious tradition about which he knows nothing—a practical and, therefore, enduring tradition against which he thinks he can fling his obviously unlearned, ill-considered and impractical criticisms with no more thought than it takes to swat a mosquito.

What a silly, intellectually superficial fellow he is.

News flash, JoeB: you're the mosquito, and the Bible, the mighty, descending hand of theological wisdom light years beyond your kin.