The guy Nazareth was a total fraud, get over it already...

[irosie91]

My point still stands. There was no grand conspiracy by the Roman Empire two hundred years later.

ALL OF ROME was a constant GRAND CONSPIRACY. The OBJECTIVE OF ROME WAS WORLD CONQUEST

24,000 handwritten manuscripts say otherwise.

There are far more copies of SUPERMAN COMICS

 

[ding]

because what really happened?

That there really was a storm in the Sea of Galilee with Jesus asleep and the Apostle's fearing for their lives just as the account is told.

there are frequent storms on the sea of
Galilee----sudden starts and stops.

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

I'm still waiting for you to live up to your promise. I think there are still four questions you have not answered.

 

[ding]

My point still stands. There was no grand conspiracy by the Roman Empire two hundred years later.

ALL OF ROME was a constant GRAND CONSPIRACY. The OBJECTIVE OF ROME WAS WORLD CONQUEST

24,000 handwritten manuscripts say otherwise.

There are far more copies of SUPERMAN COMICS

Cool story, sis, but these manuscripts were written almost 2000 years ago. The accuracy, number and timing are unparalleled in antiquity and is your Achilles heel in this argument.

 

[irosie91]

because what really happened?

That there really was a storm in the Sea of Galilee with Jesus asleep and the Apostle's fearing for their lives just as the account is told.

there are frequent storms on the sea of
Galilee----sudden starts and stops.

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

 

[hobelim]

That there really was a storm in the Sea of Galilee with Jesus asleep and the Apostle's fearing for their lives just as the account is told.

there are frequent storms on the sea of
Galilee----sudden starts and stops.

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

I'm still waiting for you to live up to your promise. I think there are still four questions you have not answered.

You are picking out scenes from the gospels...Thats fine but you claimed to have 24,000 other manuscripts that say that Jesus was God..

I'm still waiting for you to produce even one.

 

[irosie91]

My point still stands. There was no grand conspiracy by the Roman Empire two hundred years later.

ALL OF ROME was a constant GRAND CONSPIRACY. The OBJECTIVE OF ROME WAS WORLD CONQUEST

24,000 handwritten manuscripts say otherwise.

There are far more copies of SUPERMAN COMICS

Cool story, sis, but these manuscripts were written almost 2000 years ago. The accuracy, number and timing are unparalleled in antiquity and is your Achilles heel in this argument.

the more you look, the more manuscripts you will find when examining the places in which literate people lived. In fact you could probably find a few manuscripts in my house-----known as the EAST COAST GENIZAH. Do you know what a
GENIZAH is?

 

[hobelim]

That there really was a storm in the Sea of Galilee with Jesus asleep and the Apostle's fearing for their lives just as the account is told.

there are frequent storms on the sea of
Galilee----sudden starts and stops.

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

Yeah, It always astonished me that they believe that some people heard the voice of the Baal Shem Tov when they were in the grave but ridicule christian belief that says that Jesus preached to the dead.


Thats more fascinating than any parable ever written.

 

[irosie91]

there are frequent storms on the sea of
Galilee----sudden starts and stops.

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

Yeah, It always astonished me that they believe that some people heard the voice of the Baal Shem Tov when they were in the grave but ridicule christian belief that says that Jesus preached to the dead.


Thats more fascinating than any parable ever written.

what is astonishing about that? The followers of Baal Shem Tov did not commit
pogroms against them

 

[hobelim]

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

Yeah, It always astonished me that they believe that some people heard the voice of the Baal Shem Tov when they were in the grave but ridicule christian belief that says that Jesus preached to the dead.


Thats more fascinating than any parable ever written.

what is astonishing about that? The followers of Baal Shem Tov did not commit
pogroms against them

Fascinating rosie, fascinating.

Whats fascinating about that is that they ridicule and deride gentiles for their ignorant superstitions about Jesus raising the dead while professing the exact same belief, except with some guy from Poland doing it....

Whats astonishing is the blindness and hypocrisy.

 

[irosie91]

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

Yeah, It always astonished me that they believe that some people heard the voice of the Baal Shem Tov when they were in the grave but ridicule christian belief that says that Jesus preached to the dead.


Thats more fascinating than any parable ever written.

what is astonishing about that? The followers of Baal Shem Tov did not commit
pogroms against them

Fascinating rosie, fascinating.

Whats fascinating about that is that they ridicule and deride gentiles for their ignorant superstitions about Jesus raising the dead while professing the exact same belief, except with some guy from Poland doing it....

yeah? so? That's why lots of jews of other favors laugh and comment----"so why don't they just convert to Christianity"?
A careful gaze at some of the chassidim is an excellent lesson on JUST HOW
CHRISTIANITY CAME TO BE

 

[hobelim]

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

Yeah, It always astonished me that they believe that some people heard the voice of the Baal Shem Tov when they were in the grave but ridicule christian belief that says that Jesus preached to the dead.


Thats more fascinating than any parable ever written.

what is astonishing about that? The followers of Baal Shem Tov did not commit
pogroms against them

Fascinating rosie, fascinating.

Whats fascinating about that is that they ridicule and deride gentiles for their ignorant superstitions about Jesus raising the dead while professing the exact same belief, except with some guy from Poland doing it....

yeah? so? That's why lots of jews of other favors laugh and comment----"so why don't they just convert to Christianity"?
A careful gaze at some of the chassidim is an excellent lesson on JUST HOW
CHRISTIANITY CAME TO BE

You got that right..Without that CAREFUL GAZE it would be next to impossible to even known what the arguments were all about, why the "Orthodox" were pissed off at Jesus and why Jesus took issue with them.

I actually never understood a word of what I heard about Jesus until I lived in their midst.

Apparently, some things never change.....

 

[The Irish Ram]

One of two things was true, either Jesus was the son of God complete with power to heal, or he was a total fraud, had no powers, and was just a man who lied a lot....

THE EVIDENCE....

Clearly, his disciples knew whether Jesus was a fraud or not, as they were the ones who "observed" all his "miracles." Two disciples saw Jesus walk on water, but when everyone was watching, Jesus sunk right to the bottom meeting John the Baptist. In place at the time is the Old Testament, so the following logic applies...

GOD controls whether or not you go to Heaven or Hell.

If you believe this guy is GOD's son, do you betray him???

Judas did. Did Judas do that knowing Jesus was really the Son of God, or did Judas do that because Judas knew Jesus was a fraud and did not want to end up on a cross next to him. All the disciples betray Jesus when the "cops" arrest him. They deny they knew him, all offenses against God's son that God would clearly know about....

IF Jesus was really healing people left and right, he would've been really popular. But he was clearly a lot less popular than Barabbas.....

and why is he running from the authorities??

This is the Son of God. Why FEAR??? Why RUN??? If you are the son of God, show them.....

and then his trial proved Judas correct.... that he was just a man, and died on the cross like a man, in the time of a man, as he aged during his life like a man....

and even the blood on the Shroud of Turin is HUMAN blood, product of HUMAN MAN AND WOMAN.....

Really, really popular. Throngs of people followed Him and witnessed the miracles He performed. Crushing crowds nearly pushed Him into the sea trying to get close to Him. 5,000 < (wrong) watched Him turn a child's lunch into enough to feed the famished crowd that had been following Him all day. In that day only men were counted. Add that many women and their children to that number. 15,000 that day...

They saw so many healings they would sneak up behind Him and try to touch His robe to be healed. They saw Him cure blindness, straighten bones, cure leprosy and raise people from the dead, so yeah He was extremely popular.
Even His enemies in the Temple knew He could raise people from the dead. They didn't try to convince the eyewitnesses that it didn't happen. They credited His power to Satan.< (that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, from whence Jesus actually receives His power).

You are confusing the One who is to come with the One who was. Jesus Christ could have turned those people into toast while up there on that cross. That is not why He was there. He offered us His pure, sin free blood,<(a requirement to enter Heaven) in exchange for our sin soaked blood, that would keep us out. He was here to pay our debts. And He did just that. He paid that agonizing penalty for 3 hours while the earth went black. To the extent that when the lights came back on, the Roman guard below the cross was no longer laughing. His remark was, "Surely we have killed the Son of God."

The One who is to come is not our sacrificial Lamb that was. He completed that task, and offered it to us as a gift.
He is coming back as The Lion of the Tribe of Judah. A totally different role. Same Jesus. This time He stays.

Get to know Him a little better. Read His Book. He has all the answers to your questions.

 

[hobelim]

One of two things was true, either Jesus was the son of God complete with power to heal, or he was a total fraud, had no powers, and was just a man who lied a lot....

THE EVIDENCE....

Clearly, his disciples knew whether Jesus was a fraud or not, as they were the ones who "observed" all his "miracles." Two disciples saw Jesus walk on water, but when everyone was watching, Jesus sunk right to the bottom meeting John the Baptist. In place at the time is the Old Testament, so the following logic applies...

GOD controls whether or not you go to Heaven or Hell.

If you believe this guy is GOD's son, do you betray him???

Judas did. Did Judas do that knowing Jesus was really the Son of God, or did Judas do that because Judas knew Jesus was a fraud and did not want to end up on a cross next to him. All the disciples betray Jesus when the "cops" arrest him. They deny they knew him, all offenses against God's son that God would clearly know about....

IF Jesus was really healing people left and right, he would've been really popular. But he was clearly a lot less popular than Barabbas.....

and why is he running from the authorities??

This is the Son of God. Why FEAR??? Why RUN??? If you are the son of God, show them.....

and then his trial proved Judas correct.... that he was just a man, and died on the cross like a man, in the time of a man, as he aged during his life like a man....

and even the blood on the Shroud of Turin is HUMAN blood, product of HUMAN MAN AND WOMAN.....

Really, really popular. Throngs of people followed Him and witnessed the miracles He performed. Crushing crowds nearly pushed Him into the sea trying to get close to Him. 5,000 < (wrong) watched Him turn a child's lunch into enough to feed the famished crowd that had been following Him all day. In that day only men were counted. Add that many women and their children to that number. 15,000 that day...

They saw so many healings they would sneak up behind Him and try to touch His robe to be healed. They saw Him cure blindness, straighten bones, cure leprosy and raise people from the dead, so yeah He was extremely popular.
Even His enemies in the Temple knew He could raise people from the dead. They didn't try to convince the eyewitnesses that it didn't happen. They credited His power to Satan.< (that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, from whence Jesus actually receives His power).

You are confusing the One who is to come with the One who was. Jesus Christ could have turned those people into toast while up there on that cross. That is not why He was there. He offered us His pure, sin free blood,<(a requirement to enter Heaven) in exchange for our sin soaked blood, that would keep us out. He was here to pay our debts. And He did just that. He paid that agonizing penalty for 3 hours while the earth went black. To the extent that when the lights came back on, the Roman guard below the cross was no longer laughing. His remark was, "Surely we have killed the Son of God."

The One who is to come is not our sacrificial Lamb that was. He completed that task, and offered it to us as a gift.
He is coming back as The Lion of the Tribe of Judah. A totally different role. Same Jesus. This time He stays.

Get to know Him a little better. Read His Book. He has all the answers to your questions.

Sheesh... Still being troubled by strange dreams?

Will you ever wake up?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hey hob. How goes it with you? I'll stick with the Bible, you can stick with the you made up...

 

[ding]

there are frequent storms on the sea of
Galilee----sudden starts and stops.

Right. which makes the assertion that seasoned fishermen were afraid of the weather and needed the help of a sleeping carpenter because they didn't know what to do that much more ridiculous.

SHEEEESH its just a parable

Every parable is about something. Jesus sleeping on a boat with frightened fishermen who woke him up, a carpenter, because they didn't know what to do about a threatening storm isn't it.

I'm still waiting for you to live up to your promise. I think there are still four questions you have not answered.

You are picking out scenes from the gospels...Thats fine but you claimed to have 24,000 other manuscripts that say that Jesus was God..

I'm still waiting for you to produce even one.

No, Einstein. I am picking out verses with hidden meanings which is what you said you knew all about. So far you get an "F."

 

[Avatar4321]

The resurrection is real. Jesus is the Christ. More than one nation testifies that He is who He claims to be.

Jesus appears to thousands

 

[Marion Morrison]

Jesus literally poofed fish sandwiches out of thin air as a demonstration of divine supernatural power over reality when 5000 people gathered around him, a homeless person in the middle of the desert, because they really needed a snack.

But Jesus Christ couldn't protect himself from his abusers with his divine supernatural powers.

This from yet another SUB HUMAN who never thinks, never asks, but only PARROTS...

Every debate rule book in the world says you just lost the argument with that one.

How? If it is because he abused "Marion Morrison" by calling him "SUB HUMAN" then "Marion Morrison" abused LaDexter first by calling him "faggot" and many other bad things in his original reply without any provocation, this you have quoted and you can see for your self. If we go by that debate rule book you are talking about, maybe you and Marion Morrison lost the argument at that stage.

FYI.

The miracle of the loaves is not about Jesus feeding people fish sandwiches out of thin air. Its about how Jesus taught such a large skeptical crowd of thousands what he learned from God with only 7 followers represented by 5 fish and 2 loaves. He fed everyone through those first 7 disciples ( feed them yourselves) until the crowd was satisfied, and ended up with twelve baskets full of uneaten pieces, the exact number of disciples Jesus ended up with.

7 disciples became 12. The multiplication of the loaves, a miracle!

the baskets full of uneaten pieces represent aspects of what Jesus taught that the 12 disciples believed but the crowd could not swallow.

Clever were the authors of most of the Bible.

Amazing the Disciples would all end up bolting on Jesus after observing him do such "miracles..."

Why do you think the Disciples bolted instead of staying with Jesus when the "authorities" arrested him?

Why did they bolt after seeing and hearing Jesus do what only the messiah that they were expecting could do?


They deserted him because their fantasies were shattered and fear, confusion and despair took over.


Right before the last supper when Jesus was trying to tell them the jig was up and he was about to be arrested and killed the disciples were arguing amongst themselves over who was going to be the greatest leader after some imminent imaginary government take over.

That told Jesus they didn't understand a word of what he was teaching in the past, didn't hear what he was saying in the present, and didn't give a shit about what was about to happen to him in the future....They were too busy dreaming about their own potential gain and glory.


Then he said "Take this and eat it."


Remember what Jesus asked them?, "Why do you call me Lord, but never do what I say?" He already knew where they were at. It didn't take a prophet to know that they were going to desert him.

The real mystery is why he played along with their duplicity knowing what their priorities were and then forgave them in advance even though it cost him his life...

Jesus literally poofed fish sandwiches out of thin air as a demonstration of divine supernatural power over reality when 5000 people gathered around him, a homeless person in the middle of the desert, because they really needed a snack.

But Jesus Christ couldn't protect himself from his abusers with his divine supernatural powers.

Right?

That makes no sense.


The only rational explanation is that the miracles were not demonstrations of divinity or supernatural power over reality.


As I have shown, the smallest measure of intelligent thought applied to these miracles uncovers a hidden story.


A little yeast makes the whole loaf rise....

It was Jesus' duty to be sacrificed on the cross. He knew it, too. And did it anyway.

 

[irosie91]

One of two things was true, either Jesus was the son of God complete with power to heal, or he was a total fraud, had no powers, and was just a man who lied a lot....

THE EVIDENCE....

Clearly, his disciples knew whether Jesus was a fraud or not, as they were the ones who "observed" all his "miracles." Two disciples saw Jesus walk on water, but when everyone was watching, Jesus sunk right to the bottom meeting John the Baptist. In place at the time is the Old Testament, so the following logic applies...

GOD controls whether or not you go to Heaven or Hell.

If you believe this guy is GOD's son, do you betray him???

Judas did. Did Judas do that knowing Jesus was really the Son of God, or did Judas do that because Judas knew Jesus was a fraud and did not want to end up on a cross next to him. All the disciples betray Jesus when the "cops" arrest him. They deny they knew him, all offenses against God's son that God would clearly know about....

IF Jesus was really healing people left and right, he would've been really popular. But he was clearly a lot less popular than Barabbas.....

and why is he running from the authorities??

This is the Son of God. Why FEAR??? Why RUN??? If you are the son of God, show them.....

and then his trial proved Judas correct.... that he was just a man, and died on the cross like a man, in the time of a man, as he aged during his life like a man....

and even the blood on the Shroud of Turin is HUMAN blood, product of HUMAN MAN AND WOMAN.....

Really, really popular. Throngs of people followed Him and witnessed the miracles He performed. Crushing crowds nearly pushed Him into the sea trying to get close to Him. 5,000 < (wrong) watched Him turn a child's lunch into enough to feed the famished crowd that had been following Him all day. In that day only men were counted. Add that many women and their children to that number. 15,000 that day...

They saw so many healings they would sneak up behind Him and try to touch His robe to be healed. They saw Him cure blindness, straighten bones, cure leprosy and raise people from the dead, so yeah He was extremely popular.
Even His enemies in the Temple knew He could raise people from the dead. They didn't try to convince the eyewitnesses that it didn't happen. They credited His power to Satan.< (that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, from whence Jesus actually receives His power).

You are confusing the One who is to come with the One who was. Jesus Christ could have turned those people into toast while up there on that cross. That is not why He was there. He offered us His pure, sin free blood,<(a requirement to enter Heaven) in exchange for our sin soaked blood, that would keep us out. He was here to pay our debts. And He did just that. He paid that agonizing penalty for 3 hours while the earth went black. To the extent that when the lights came back on, the Roman guard below the cross was no longer laughing. His remark was, "Surely we have killed the Son of God."

The One who is to come is not our sacrificial Lamb that was. He completed that task, and offered it to us as a gift.
He is coming back as The Lion of the Tribe of Judah. A totally different role. Same Jesus. This time He stays.

Get to know Him a little better. Read His Book. He has all the answers to your questions.

Sheesh... Still being troubled by strange dreams?

Will you ever wake up?

the stories about BAAL SHEM TOV----are even better

 

[Weatherman2020]

Right?

That makes no sense.


The only rational explanation is that the miracles were not demonstrations of divinity or supernatural power over reality.


As I have shown, the smallest measure of intelligent thought applied to these miracles uncovers a hidden story.


A little yeast makes the whole loaf rise....

So not only is your god the hide and seek king, but now the bible is nothing but a bunch of hide and seek stories. Were you not allowed outside to play such games with the other children of your neighbourhood when you were a young Jew?

They were just humans.

Key question: If the story of Jesus were fictional why would they fabricate their failings over and over throughout the NT?

They wouldn't. Thus it adds to the validity that the stories are true.

To fool imbeciles like hob... and you.

No record of Pontius Pilot existed in Roman records. Then archeologists found a stone with his name in it.

Time and time again we learn the accuracy of the Bible.

Sure, small stuff like people and places, but not the big things, the flood, 6 day creation, all of Jesus' miracles, resurrection, the parting of the Red Sea... none of the big things can be proven. Not one.

Again, every crime has to have a motive. What’s the motive of someone fabricating a story that makes the author look like an idiot, provides him no rewards, and in most of the cases ended up costing them great pain and suffering, even death.

 

[irosie91]

Its not much of a parable. For lots and lots of parables-----access the literature of the
chassidim

Yeah, It always astonished me that they believe that some people heard the voice of the Baal Shem Tov when they were in the grave but ridicule christian belief that says that Jesus preached to the dead.


Thats more fascinating than any parable ever written.

what is astonishing about that? The followers of Baal Shem Tov did not commit
pogroms against them

Fascinating rosie, fascinating.

Whats fascinating about that is that they ridicule and deride gentiles for their ignorant superstitions about Jesus raising the dead while professing the exact same belief, except with some guy from Poland doing it....

yeah? so? That's why lots of jews of other favors laugh and comment----"so why don't they just convert to Christianity"?
A careful gaze at some of the chassidim is an excellent lesson on JUST HOW
CHRISTIANITY CAME TO BE

You got that right..Without that CAREFUL GAZE it would be next to impossible to even known what the arguments were all about, why the "Orthodox" were pissed off at Jesus and why Jesus took issue with them.

I actually never understood a word of what I heard about Jesus until I lived in their midst.

Apparently, some things never change.....

what "orthodox" took issue with Jesus? ------in what dimension are you living?
"the orthodox" has no meaning in the time of Jesus. What do you imagine you
HEARD about Jesus whilst living with "the
orthodox"?