The Liberal Myth that the Rich Pay "Virtually No Taxes"

[Wilbur Right]

rich pay overwhelming amount of taxes (and that includes other taxes besides corporate taxes - which USA has one of the highest rates for in the modern world, last time I checked it was 2nd highest).

Dude the rich have an overwhelming amount of income. And it has been growing larger for the past several years.

Of course they pay a huge amount of tax. They have a huge amount of money.
Is this news to you? The amount of income gains for the ultra wealthy is written about all over the Net.
Are you fucking clueless or what?

Another person who needs to learn to use Google.

You idiot, I responded to the claim that "rich pay virtually no taxes". I am glad you agree that they in fact do pay a "huge amount of tax" and that Interpol needs to learn to use google.

This is not news to me, to a regressive it however appears to be new information.

The rich pay less tax as a percentage of their total income than they have for quite some time.

That is the mistake that those who claim the rich pay virtually no taxes make is they dont qualify their statement with the idea that as a percentage of their income, they pay way to little.

If the ultra wealthy had ALL the income and paid a tax rate at 5%, it would still be a huge number. But that wouldnt be good for the rest of us would it?

Same idea here. The rich got all the income gains and have tax rates as low as they have been for some time.

And that situation has not been good for the rest of us.

Why you such a big supporter of that continuing?

 

[Indeependent]

Put it this way it is immoral to steal 50% of anyone's property

Average productivity per worker has doubled since 1970 - the year that average wage increases became flat. Do you see that as theft?

That increase hasn't been because the workers are so much better but rather because technology and new manufacturing processes has made it easier for unskilled labor to produce what only highly skilled people could in the past

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Average productivity per worker has doubled since 1970 - the year that average wage increases became flat. Do you see that as theft?

That increase hasn't been because the workers are so much better but rather because technology and new manufacturing processes has made it easier for unskilled labor to produce what only highly skilled people could in the past

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

By their own choice I take it? Unemployed that is.

 

[MarathonMike]

Liberals love to use vague terms like "Effective tax rate" and "Fairness" in an attempt to get deeper into the pockets of HARDWORKING higher income Americans. They use mental images of fat cat wallstreet traders to justify their bashing of the very people that FUND this bloated inefficient government and pay for the welfare programs keep the Democratic vote farm running.

Before you come after more tax money for the government to waste, how about make a REAL effort to make the government leaner and more efficient. Re-examine government pay structures and bloated or redundant departments. Do you know that it is not uncommon for high GS level employees to make 100K to 150K per year? Explain to me why any paper pusher is worth that, then we can talk about how the "rich" are not paying enough tax.

 

[Indeependent]

That increase hasn't been because the workers are so much better but rather because technology and new manufacturing processes has made it easier for unskilled labor to produce what only highly skilled people could in the past

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

By their own choice I take it? Unemployed that is.

Nice try.
I know lots of guys who have been to every state in the union and illegals are doing their jobs everywhere.
6 months a year, IF they're lucky, they can get a job at a grocery store which pays a fraction of their chosen profession.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And yet you losers call for more tax cuts coupled with 200,000 more troops in the Middle East.

Fucking retards.

I never called for more tax cuts

show me where I said that

skull
Your support of a flat tax isnt a "tax cut"
You might want to go back an re read some of your posts.

You have definitely called for a tax cut. In the form of a flat tax.

Why you want to lie about what it is you have said?

It's revenue neutral at the worst so tax revenue will not be cut

Prove it.

The poor actually get a nice tax increase under your idea skull.

So who gets the tax cuts?

No one you say? Well thats funny. If there was a flat tax today of 15%, I would be getting a tax cut.

But go ahead and prove it would be revenue neutral. I know you have spent a lot of time fantasizing about this.

And revenue neutral may be what you claim as an amount of tax recieved by the treasury, but someone is gonna get a tax increase and someone is gonna get a tax reduction under your idea.

But revenue wouldn't go down because you would be paying that percentage on ALL the income you have not some of it

Let's say you earn 150K but you only actually pay taxes on 100K because of all the deductions you get

so you pay 28% on that for a total of 28000
you could pay 18% on the 150K and still pay 28000 in taxes

So did you really get a tax cut?

 

[Wilbur Right]

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

By their own choice I take it? Unemployed that is.

Nice try.
I know lots of guys who have been to every state in the union and illegals are doing their jobs everywhere.
6 months a year, IF they're lucky, they can get a job at a grocery store which pays a fraction of their chosen profession.

Well I havent checked with EVERY state in the union but in my state, plumbers and electricians are licensed. Now how many illegals have a skilled trades license?

Now do piece of shit contractors try to charge customers skilled labor rates while using illegal shitty labor for skilled jobs? Probably.

But if you know people that are skilled tradesmen and cant find work, its on them. Or its the way they want it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Average productivity per worker has doubled since 1970 - the year that average wage increases became flat. Do you see that as theft?

That increase hasn't been because the workers are so much better but rather because technology and new manufacturing processes has made it easier for unskilled labor to produce what only highly skilled people could in the past

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

If you're a tradesman who is not in a weather affected job if you are out of work 6 months a year then you're only working part time

 

[Indeependent]

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

By their own choice I take it? Unemployed that is.

Nice try.
I know lots of guys who have been to every state in the union and illegals are doing their jobs everywhere.
6 months a year, IF they're lucky, they can get a job at a grocery store which pays a fraction of their chosen profession.

Well I havent checked with EVERY state in the union but in my state, plumbers and electricians are licensed. Now how many illegals have a skilled trades license?

Now do piece of shit contractors try to charge customers skilled labor rates while using illegal shitty labor for skilled jobs? Probably.

But if you know people that are skilled tradesmen and cant find work, its on them. Or its the way they want it.

They say bullshit and they're voting for Trump.

 

[Indeependent]

That increase hasn't been because the workers are so much better but rather because technology and new manufacturing processes has made it easier for unskilled labor to produce what only highly skilled people could in the past

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

Because commercial sinks are so much more sophisticated than pre-Reagan.

And tell me what is the wage of plumbers and other skilled tradesmen?

Has it risen more than those who have no skill?

Of course it has

But then again a moron who thinks a sink is the pinnacle of the technological advances we have made wouldn't understand that

I know lots of electricians and plumbers who charge a lot WHEN THEY GET A JOB.
They're unemployed for about 6 months a year.

If you're a tradesman who is not in a weather affected job if you are out of work 6 months a year then you're only working part time

They will go whereever the jobs are.

 

[Norman]

rich pay overwhelming amount of taxes (and that includes other taxes besides corporate taxes - which USA has one of the highest rates for in the modern world, last time I checked it was 2nd highest).

Dude the rich have an overwhelming amount of income. And it has been growing larger for the past several years.

Of course they pay a huge amount of tax. They have a huge amount of money.
Is this news to you? The amount of income gains for the ultra wealthy is written about all over the Net.
Are you fucking clueless or what?

Another person who needs to learn to use Google.

You idiot, I responded to the claim that "rich pay virtually no taxes". I am glad you agree that they in fact do pay a "huge amount of tax" and that Interpol needs to learn to use google.

This is not news to me, to a regressive it however appears to be new information.

The rich pay less tax as a percentage of their total income than they have for quite some time.

That is the mistake that those who claim the rich pay virtually no taxes make is they dont qualify their statement with the idea that as a percentage of their income, they pay way to little.

If the ultra wealthy had ALL the income and paid a tax rate at 5%, it would still be a huge number. But that wouldnt be good for the rest of us would it?

Same idea here. The rich got all the income gains and have tax rates as low as they have been for some time.

And that situation has not been good for the rest of us.

Why you such a big supporter of that continuing?

And your source for this is?

I just calculated the exact rates based on IRS tax returns (2013), and the rate for the rich was 20-30% depending on the income level. For the middle the tax rate was about 8% even if very liberally interpreted. Could it possibly be that the regressive media has taken their own spin on the numbers which does not exactly reflect the truth of the matter?... But that would be unheard of!

Of course, about 40% of households don't pay the income tax at all. For regressives it is indeed a horror to pay taxes for the services they use - but appointing taxes onto others is one of their favorite activities.

 

[Wilbur Right]

You say 40% pay no income tax at all eh?

Of course their employer withholds taxes. Or do you think that withholding line on their pay stub says zero?

You must be thinking of the EITC?

How did we get that program Republicas might ask. Why it was a Republican named Ford who brought that program into being. And one named Reagan who seriously expanded it. And claimed it was the best poverty fighter EVER.

Thanks a lot Republicans for making it possible for low wage earners to not only get a full refund, but additional monies as well.

Thanks a lot Republicans.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You say 40% pay no income tax at all eh?

Of course their employer withholds taxes. Or do you think that withholding line on their pay stub says zero?

You must be thinking of the EITC?

How did we get that program Republicas might ask. Why it was a Republican named Ford who brought that program into being. And one named Reagan who seriously expanded it. And claimed it was the best poverty fighter EVER.

Thanks a lot Republicans for making it possible for low wage earners to not only get a full refund, but additional monies as well.

Thanks a lot Republicans.

If the employer withholds taxes and sends them into the US treasury every pay period then the government gives you a refund check for all the tax your employer withheld did you pay any taxes?

 

[Wilbur Right]

You say 40% pay no income tax at all eh?

Of course their employer withholds taxes. Or do you think that withholding line on their pay stub says zero?

You must be thinking of the EITC?

How did we get that program Republicas might ask. Why it was a Republican named Ford who brought that program into being. And one named Reagan who seriously expanded it. And claimed it was the best poverty fighter EVER.

Thanks a lot Republicans for making it possible for low wage earners to not only get a full refund, but additional monies as well.

Thanks a lot Republicans.

If the employer withholds taxes and sends them into the US treasury every pay period then the government gives you a refund check for all the tax your employer withheld did you pay any taxes?

Why you most definitely did pay them. Then the low wage earner thanks the prior Republicans for putting in place the EITC.

Did you know the program you hate more than anything was brought to you by a Republican?

And expanded by that most favorite Repub, Reagan.

Take it up with Repubs you got a problem with the EITC.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You say 40% pay no income tax at all eh?

Of course their employer withholds taxes. Or do you think that withholding line on their pay stub says zero?

You must be thinking of the EITC?

How did we get that program Republicas might ask. Why it was a Republican named Ford who brought that program into being. And one named Reagan who seriously expanded it. And claimed it was the best poverty fighter EVER.

Thanks a lot Republicans for making it possible for low wage earners to not only get a full refund, but additional monies as well.

Thanks a lot Republicans.

If the employer withholds taxes and sends them into the US treasury every pay period then the government gives you a refund check for all the tax your employer withheld did you pay any taxes?

Why you most definitely did pay them. Then the low wage earner thanks the prior Republicans for putting in place the EITC.

Did you know the program you hate more than anything was brought to you by a Republican?

And expanded by that most favorite Repub, Reagan.

Take it up with Repubs you got a problem with the EITC.

Nice dodge.

If I pay 1000 in taxes and on April 16th I get a check back from the entity that took those taxes PLUS 50 bucks from the EITC my net tax bill is not only ZERO It is more like -5

And why on earth do you think I would like something just because it was passed by republicans?

And Reagan was just another big government whore no better than any democrat

 

[Wilbur Right]

Hey dude. Take it up with CONgress. They pass the tax law.

And unlike you, poor people arent stupid.

Put a tax program like that in place and they will use it. Why wouldnt they?
Because YOU dont want them to?LMAO

Why dont you send in some more or your money to make up for the tax refund the poor get?

Will you do that?

But hey as to your flat tax. Those poor people will sure get fucked under you plan wouldnt they.

Is it "revenue neutral" for low wage earners when their tax rate goes from no
taxes owed to 15% owed. WOW the low wage earned sure get fucked under your "plan".

 

[Norman]

You say 40% pay no income tax at all eh?

Of course their employer withholds taxes. Or do you think that withholding line on their pay stub says zero?

You must be thinking of the EITC?

How did we get that program Republicas might ask. Why it was a Republican named Ford who brought that program into being. And one named Reagan who seriously expanded it. And claimed it was the best poverty fighter EVER.

Thanks a lot Republicans for making it possible for low wage earners to not only get a full refund, but additional monies as well.

Thanks a lot Republicans.

Glad you agree that the story of rich paying no taxes is complete hogwash, while in fact most are getting away without paying anything in the lower income groups. (About 150 million filed a tax return according to IRS in 2013 - that's less than half the population)...

More info: SOI Tax Stats - Individual Income Tax Returns Publication 1304 (Complete Report)

 

[Norman]

Hey dude. Take it up with CONgress. They pass the tax law.

And unlike you, poor people arent stupid.

Put a tax program like that in place and they will use it. Why wouldnt they?
Because YOU dont want them to?LMAO

Why dont you send in some more or your money to make up for the tax refund the poor get?

Will you do that?

But hey as to your flat tax. Those poor people will sure get fucked under you plan wouldnt they.

Is it "revenue neutral" for low wage earners when their tax rate goes from no
taxes owed to 15% owed. WOW the low wage earned sure get fucked under your "plan".

Not all poor people plan on being on welfare for the rest of their lives - unlike regressive like yourself. Some even understand the concept of paying for the services that you use.

Then there indeed are some stupid poor people, as there are dumb people in all categories. To get a hint who those might include, look at the nonsensical reasoning above.

 

[JoeNormal]

They always had that right before....the country was better off for it

Put it this way it is immoral to steal 50% of anyone's property

Average productivity per worker has doubled since 1970 - the year that average wage increases became flat. Do you see that as theft?

That increase hasn't been because the workers are so much better but rather because technology and new manufacturing processes has made it easier for unskilled labor to produce what only highly skilled people could in the past

That's always been the case. Technology has always made productivity rise but until the early 70's, wage increases kept pace. Why did wage increases flatten after that?

BEcause the wages went to those who did the technological innovating not the unskilled people who use it

Bullshit. I'm one of the technological innovators and although I'm significantly more comfortable and secure than most, I'm far from rich and at this point, my pay increases hardly exceed inflation.

Here's what's happened:

I wish I could find the graph that started in the 50's. It shows that the disparity started in earnest in the early 70's and went into turbo mode during Reagan.

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals love to use vague terms like "Effective tax rate" and "Fairness" in an attempt to get deeper into the pockets of HARDWORKING higher income Americans. They use mental images of fat cat wallstreet traders to justify their bashing of the very people that FUND this bloated inefficient government and pay for the welfare programs keep the Democratic vote farm running.

Before you come after more tax money for the government to waste, how about make a REAL effort to make the government leaner and more efficient. Re-examine government pay structures and bloated or redundant departments. Do you know that it is not uncommon for high GS level employees to make 100K to 150K per year? Explain to me why any paper pusher is worth that, then we can talk about how the "rich" are not paying enough tax.

Historical tax rates are well documented

Our wealthy are paying at the lowest rate in 75 years...we are not better off because of it