The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Open Bolt]

"Contrary to popular belief, however, not all Pacific war veterans applaud the atomic annihilation of two Japanese cities.
Responding to a journalist's question in 1995 about what he would have done had he been in Truman's shoes, Joseph O'Donnell, a retired marine corps sergeant who served in the Pacific, answered that "we should have went after the military in Japan. They were bad. But to drop a bomb on women and children and the elderly, I draw a line there, and I still hold it." "

The poor guy probably never received an education.

Had he done so, he would have known that the atomic bombs were dropped on vital military targets.

He should have taken advantage of the GI Bill when it was on offer. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Here are some of the warships that were built at the Nagasaki shipyards:

The Yamato-class super-battleship Musashi, one of the two largest battleships ever built. Launched November 1, 1940. Commissioned August 5, 1942.

Japanese battleship Musashi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Hiyō-class aircraft carrier Jun'yō. Launched June 26, 1941. Commissioned May 3, 1942.

Japanese aircraft carrier Jun'yō - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Unryū-class aircraft carrier Amagi. Launched October 15, 1943. Commissioned August 10, 1944.

Japanese aircraft carrier Amagi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Unryū-class aircraft carrier Kasagi. Launched October 19, 1944. 84% complete when Japan surrendered. (Google Translate of Japanese Wikipedia)

https://ja-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/笠置_(空母)?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

 

[Open Bolt]

Like I said, let's pretend your baseless assertion is reality,

No need to pretend. Reality is not baseless.

since it has no affect of the Government's psychopathy in murdering thousands of innocent people.

No such murders.

The fact that there was a target there that the Government deems important is irrelevant to whether an action is ethical or not.

That is incorrect. Wartime attacks against military targets are entirely ethical.

The fact that one in five people was an enemy of the murderer ALSO doesn't determine whether an action is ethical or not. You egoists are funny.

No murder took place.

If you would like an example of murder, look to the peacetime attack on Pearl harbor.

Soldiers killing soldiers in "wartime" IS murder.

No it isn't.

The murder is just, probably, justified in their minds, since they're being paid to cuck out to the Government that way. Just because the people being murdered are the "not we" doesn't make the murder suddenly justified, and politicians wanting those specific people dead doesn't make it justified. They are no more an arbiter of morality or ethics than any other random on the street, the only difference is that the politician wears a suit and speaks in Word Salads.

No murders occurred at Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

So, based on your geographical location, you just automatically cheer on mass murder of people in other geographical locations, and politicians you've never met before automatically have your consent to make decisions and speak for you. That's literally just location-based social justice.

No. Wartime strikes on military targets are not murder.

For an example of mass murder, look to the peacetime attack on Pearl harbor.

I don't see a difference between Pearl Harbor and the Nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, besides the number of people murdered in the attack.

Yes. There is a significant difference in the number of murders.

Zero people were murdered at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I suppose the location would be the most important aspect to you, though.

No. The fact that the attack took place in peacetime is the most important aspect.

 

[elektra]

Note the words completely unnecessary

Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote in his memoir The White House Years:

Again, you linked to wikipedia where that quote is not to be found, but that is okay, I have the books. Have you read the books, seen the quote in complete context. Have you read more than one book. Have you cross referenced Eisenhower's statement with Stimson? And again, why would Stimson tell Eisenhower of a Top Secret weapon when Eisenhower has nothing to do with the pacific. When was your quote made? Do you have the book so you can tell us?

Dwight D. Eisenhower, seeings how you brought up Eisenhower as a source I am sure you will be satisfied that Eisenhower is truthful so I will quote Eisenhower

page 443, of Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe. 1948

 

[Vegasgiants]

Again, you linked to wikipedia where that quote is not to be found, but that is okay, I have the books. Have you read the books, seen the quote in complete context. Have you read more than one book. Have you cross referenced Eisenhower's statement with Stimson? And again, why would Stimson tell Eisenhower of a Top Secret weapon when Eisenhower has nothing to do with the pacific. When was your quote made? Do you have the book so you can tell us?

Dwight D. Eisenhower, seeings how you brought up Eisenhower as a source I am sure you will be satisfied that Eisenhower is truthful so I will quote Eisenhower

View attachment 633714

page 443, of Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe. 1948

And it was absolutely unnecessary according to Eisenhower

 

[elektra]

One should take good advice when making such decisions


It seems truman had none

Yet Truman ended the war as quick as possible. With more advice than any other commander of any war every had.

The fact of the matter is, Eisenhower did not advice on the use of the Atomic Bomb.

 

[Unkotare]

The poor guy probably never received an education.

...

Did YOU?

 

[Vegasgiants]

Yet Truman ended the war as quick as possible. With more advice than any other commander of any war every had.

The fact of the matter is, Eisenhower did not advice on the use of the Atomic Bomb.

But not the advice the gunny says he needed

 

[Open Bolt]

"Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, the tough and outspoken commander of the U.S. Third Fleet, which participated in the American offensive against the Japanese home islands in the final months of the war,"

I wasn't aware that we had launched our offensive against the Japanese home islands.

How many people ended up being killed when we invaded Japan?

I do recall learning how Halsey took his forces off their post to go chasing after a decoy, leaving our invasion of the Philippines precariously unprotected and able to be smashed by the Japanese Navy.

Admiral Clifton Sprague was able to save the day by using superior tactics to do Halsey's job for him using a much smaller force.

Battle off Samar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Where is, repeat, where is Task Force Thirty Four? The world wonders.

The world wonders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"publicly stated in 1946 that "the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment." "

The poor guy didn't understand very much about wars.

When we go to war, we bomb the other country.

"The Japanese, he noted, had "put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before" the bomb was used."

Japan was free to surrender any time they wanted to.

Japan was the one who chose to wait until August 10 before ever offering to surrender.

 

[Vegasgiants]

I wasn't aware that we had launched our offensive against the Japanese home islands.

How many were killed in the invasion??

I do recall learning how Halsey took his forces off their post to go chasing after a decoy, leaving our invasion of the Philippines precariously unprotected and able to be smashed by the Japanese Navy.

Admiral Clifton Sprague was able to save the day by using superior tactics to do Halsey's job for him using a much smaller force.

Battle off Samar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Where is, repeat, where is Task Force Thirty Four? The world wonders.

The world wonders - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The poor guy didn't understand very much about wars.

When we go to war, we bomb the other country.



Japan was free to surrender any time they wanted to.

Japan was the one who chose to wait until August 10 before ever offering to surrender.

Your buddy here says they did not surrender until September

 

[Open Bolt]

Did YOU?

Of course. Note the way I keep presenting loads of facts to correct all the untrue statements that you keep quoting.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Of course. Note the way I keep presenting loads of facts to correct all the untrue statements that you keep quoting.

No you dont.

 

[Open Bolt]

"Doug Dowd, a Pacific-theater rescue pilot who was slated to take an early part in the invasion of Japan if it had come to that, recently stated that it was clear in the final months of the war that the Japanese "had lost the ability to defend themselves." American planes "met little, and then virtually no resistance," Dowd recalled."

Japan had two million soldiers and ten thousand kamikazes waiting to pounce on our invading troops.

"He added, "It is well-known [now] that the Japanese were seeking to make a peace agreement well before Hiroshima." "

Japan's silly plot to end the war in a draw (like the Korean War later ended) instead of surrendering was not something that was ever going to happen.

Japan needed to surrender in order to end the war. Japan only did that after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.

President Dwight Eisenhower, the Allied commander in Europe during World War II, recalled in 1963, as he did on several other occasions, that he had opposed using the atomic bomb on Japan during a July 1945 meeting with Secretary of War Henry Stimson: "I told him I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."

Eisenhower and Leahy must have been the most tedious whiners in human history.

I'm surprised that people didn't slap them when they started sniveling.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Japan had two million soldiers and ten thousand kamikazes waiting to pounce on our invading troops.



Japan's silly plot to end the war in a draw (like the Korean War later ended) instead of surrendering was not something that was ever going to happen.

Japan needed to surrender in order to end the war. Japan only did that after both atomic bombs had already been dropped.



Eisenhower and Leahy must have been the most tedious whiners in human history.

I'm surprised that people didn't slap them when they started sniveling.

Quit whining. We dont care

 

[Open Bolt]

Perhaps. . . we should have never provoked the war, or we should have not left ourselves open to purposely let ourselves BE attacked in the first place?

Perhaps Japan should not have provoked us into nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki and then left them open to purposely let them be nuked.

 

[Open Bolt]

The fact of the matter is, Eisenhower did not advice on the use of the Atomic Bomb.

Indeed. No one ever gave Truman any sort of advice against using atomic bombs against Japanese military targets.

 

[MisterBeale]

Perhaps Japan should not have provoked us into nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki and then left them open to purposely let them be nuked.

Who introduced Japan to "gunboat diplomacy," and set them upon a coarse of imperialism in the first place?

Why not tell the forum a little about Commodore Matthew Perry?

 

[Unkotare]

Of course. Note the way I keep presenting loads of facts ...

I note that you have provided ZERO evidence to support your "Nuh-uh!"

 

[Vegasgiants]

Indeed. No one ever gave Truman any sort of advice against using atomic bombs against Japanese military targets.

Well that was why he made a dumb decision

 

[Open Bolt]

I note that you have provided ZERO evidence to support your "Nuh-uh!"

Nonsense. I've provided plenty of evidence showing that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were vital military targets.

Here are some of the warships that were built at the Nagasaki shipyards:

The Yamato-class super-battleship Musashi, one of the two largest battleships ever built. Launched November 1, 1940. Commissioned August 5, 1942.

Japanese battleship Musashi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Hiyō-class aircraft carrier Jun'yō. Launched June 26, 1941. Commissioned May 3, 1942.

Japanese aircraft carrier Jun'yō - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Unryū-class aircraft carrier Amagi. Launched October 15, 1943. Commissioned August 10, 1944.

Japanese aircraft carrier Amagi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Unryū-class aircraft carrier Kasagi. Launched October 19, 1944. 84% complete when Japan surrendered. (Google Translate of Japanese Wikipedia)

https://ja-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/笠置_(空母)?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

 

[Vegasgiants]

Nonsense. I've provided plenty of evidence showing that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were vital military targets.

Here are some of the warships that were built at the Nagasaki shipyards:

The Yamato-class super-battleship Musashi, one of the two largest battleships ever built. Launched November 1, 1940. Commissioned August 5, 1942.

Japanese battleship Musashi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Hiyō-class aircraft carrier Jun'yō. Launched June 26, 1941. Commissioned May 3, 1942.

Japanese aircraft carrier Jun'yō - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Unryū-class aircraft carrier Amagi. Launched October 15, 1943. Commissioned August 10, 1944.

Japanese aircraft carrier Amagi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Unryū-class aircraft carrier Kasagi. Launched October 19, 1944. 84% complete when Japan surrendered. (Google Translate of Japanese Wikipedia)

https://ja-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/笠置_(空母)?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

None of this has to do with anything