The question libertarians just can’t answer

[TemplarKormac]

It WAS tried, and it worked. The country it was tried in was the United States.

lol. what year was that?

From it's inception until the abolition of the gold standard in 1933.

 

[Agit8r]

It WAS tried, and it worked. The country it was tried in was the United States.

lol. what year was that?

Hardy har har. You're just too fucking funny.

No, seriously though. Was it during Washington's administration when they bailed out Wall Street and adopted the Whiskey Tax?

The Adams Administration with the Alien and Sedition Acts?

Jefferson with his Barbary War?

Any of the other presidents who presided over our mercantilist economy prior to 1947?


I'm seriously at a loss for when you might be referring

 

[S.J.]

lol. what year was that?

Hardy har har. You're just too fucking funny.

No, seriously though. Was it during Washington's administration when they bailed out Wall Street and adopted the Whiskey Tax?

The Adams Administration with the Alien and Sedition Acts?

Jefferson with his Barbary War?

Any of the other presidents who presided over our mercantilist economy prior to 1947?


I'm seriously at a loss for when you might be referring

Please stop, you're killing me.

 

[Agit8r]

Hardy har har. You're just too fucking funny.

No, seriously though. Was it during Washington's administration when they bailed out Wall Street and adopted the Whiskey Tax?

The Adams Administration with the Alien and Sedition Acts?

Jefferson with his Barbary War?

Any of the other presidents who presided over our mercantilist economy prior to 1947?


I'm seriously at a loss for when you might be referring

Please stop, you're killing me.

Questions aren't lethal, but I'm dying to hear your answer

 

[S.J.]

No, seriously though. Was it during Washington's administration when they bailed out Wall Street and adopted the Whiskey Tax?

The Adams Administration with the Alien and Sedition Acts?

Jefferson with his Barbary War?

Any of the other presidents who presided over our mercantilist economy prior to 1947?


I'm seriously at a loss for when you might be referring

Please stop, you're killing me.

Questions aren't lethal, but I'm dying to hear your answer

I don't respond to rhetorical questions.

 

[Pogo]

Yes, except for the fact that the people using the term progressive in those links can be considered progressives themselves. Glenn Greenwald, for example, is a well-known progressive.



GGSideDocs: Frequently told lies (FTLs)

Coriolis effect. You've explained a circular argument with another circular argument. There's still no definition. A guy using a common English adjective doesn't make a political movement.

Except I've given multiple examples of the term being used, and now you're moving the goal posts.

"Multiple examples of the term being used" means nothing. I asked for a definition. Which apparently does not exist. I can accept that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Thanks for answering my question. It is no longer what Harry Browne 'does', it is now what he 'did'. Harry died on March 1, 2006.

No shit Dick Tracy. So that's your argument, you used the wrong TENSE on that word!

I stand corrected, you do admirably defend and justify liberalism, I'm convinced now.

Now if I hadn't known he died, I see your point. Wow, there's no way I could be a libertarian.

Drugs dude, just say no.

I have clearly and intelligently stated many of my beliefs on this thread. I didn't hear your replies, or your beliefs. It seems your beliefs are to just deride and disparage anyone who is a liberal. Sure SOUNDS like the exact same bluster that comes from right wing turds on this board.

Which makes me question if you really are a libertarian. Because Liberals and libertarians have a lot in common in the realm of civil liberties.

Nah, Libert-arian and Liberal have nothing to do with one other, the root word for Libertarian is "Liberty" not "Liberal". You need to read a dictionary, badly.

Prove to us that we have anything to do with Liberalism. Come on, hotshot.

 

[Pogo]

No shit Dick Tracy. So that's your argument, you used the wrong TENSE on that word!

I stand corrected, you do admirably defend and justify liberalism, I'm convinced now.

Now if I hadn't known he died, I see your point. Wow, there's no way I could be a libertarian.

Drugs dude, just say no.

I have clearly and intelligently stated many of my beliefs on this thread. I didn't hear your replies, or your beliefs. It seems your beliefs are to just deride and disparage anyone who is a liberal. Sure SOUNDS like the exact same bluster that comes from right wing turds on this board.

Which makes me question if you really are a libertarian. Because Liberals and libertarians have a lot in common in the realm of civil liberties.

Nah, Libert-arian and Liberal have nothing to do with one other, the root word for Libertarian is "Liberty" not "Liberal". You need to read a dictionary, badly.

Prove to us that we have anything to do with Liberalism. Come on, hotshot.

Whaaa?
That's crazy talk. Of course they're related.

liberal (adj.)
mid-14c., "generous," also, late 14c., "selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant," and, early 15c., in a bad sense "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous" (12c.), from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious," from PIE *leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base *leudh- "people" (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute "nation, people;" Old High German liut "person, people") but literally "to mount up, to grow."

libertarian (n.)
1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. As an adjective by 1882. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.

liberty (n.)
late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission, from liber "free" (see liberal)

-- Online Etymology Dictionary

 

[rightwinger]

It WAS tried, and it worked. The country it was tried in was the United States.

lol. what year was that?

From it's inception until the abolition of the gold standard in 1933.

The US became a SuperPower after 1933

Thanks Federal Reserve

 

[Oddball]

lol. what year was that?

From it's inception until the abolition of the gold standard in 1933.

The US became a SuperPower after 1933

Thanks Federal Reserve

The US was an industrial superpower far before that, thanks to the iIndustrial Revolution.

The only thing the Fed has been any good at doing is making the USD worth about 3¢ in purchasing power, when compared to 1913.

 

[Oddball]

I have clearly and intelligently stated many of my beliefs on this thread. I didn't hear your replies, or your beliefs. It seems your beliefs are to just deride and disparage anyone who is a liberal. Sure SOUNDS like the exact same bluster that comes from right wing turds on this board.

Which makes me question if you really are a libertarian. Because Liberals and libertarians have a lot in common in the realm of civil liberties.

Nah, Libert-arian and Liberal have nothing to do with one other, the root word for Libertarian is "Liberty" not "Liberal". You need to read a dictionary, badly.

Prove to us that we have anything to do with Liberalism. Come on, hotshot.

Whaaa?
That's crazy talk. Of course they're related.

liberal (adj.)
mid-14c., "generous," also, late 14c., "selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant," and, early 15c., in a bad sense "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous" (12c.), from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious," from PIE *leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base *leudh- "people" (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute "nation, people;" Old High German liut "person, people") but literally "to mount up, to grow."

libertarian (n.)
1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. As an adjective by 1882. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.

liberty (n.)
late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission, from liber "free" (see liberal)

-- Online Etymology Dictionary

The Eugene Debs socialist wing of the Democrat Party stole the term "liberal" back in the 1930s.

The meaning of the word today compared with back in the 18th century, also as compared in other languages, have almost nothing in common today.

 

[zeke]

Nah, Libert-arian and Liberal have nothing to do with one other, the root word for Libertarian is "Liberty" not "Liberal". You need to read a dictionary, badly.

Prove to us that we have anything to do with Liberalism. Come on, hotshot.

Whaaa?
That's crazy talk. Of course they're related.

liberal (adj.)
mid-14c., "generous," also, late 14c., "selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant," and, early 15c., in a bad sense "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous" (12c.), from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious," from PIE *leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base *leudh- "people" (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute "nation, people;" Old High German liut "person, people") but literally "to mount up, to grow."

libertarian (n.)
1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. As an adjective by 1882. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.

liberty (n.)
late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission, from liber "free" (see liberal)

-- Online Etymology Dictionary

The Eugene Debs socialist wing of the Democrat Party stole the term "liberal" back in the 1930s.

The meaning of the word today compared with back in the 18th century, also as compared in other languages, have almost nothing in common today.

But that wasn't the questions was it? That one crazy carmack the magician said that the two words (liberal and libertarian) had no basis in common language. From what I read, he was wrong. Why you want to be wrong to? And who stole what? A word got "stolen"? Better call the word police eh?

 

[Pogo]

Nah, Libert-arian and Liberal have nothing to do with one other, the root word for Libertarian is "Liberty" not "Liberal". You need to read a dictionary, badly.

Prove to us that we have anything to do with Liberalism. Come on, hotshot.

Whaaa?
That's crazy talk. Of course they're related.

liberal (adj.)
mid-14c., "generous," also, late 14c., "selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant," and, early 15c., in a bad sense "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous" (12c.), from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious," from PIE *leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base *leudh- "people" (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute "nation, people;" Old High German liut "person, people") but literally "to mount up, to grow."

libertarian (n.)
1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. As an adjective by 1882. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.

liberty (n.)
late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission, from liber "free" (see liberal)

-- Online Etymology Dictionary

The Eugene Debs socialist wing of the Democrat Party stole the term "liberal" back in the 1930s.

The meaning of the word today compared with back in the 18th century, also as compared in other languages, have almost nothing in common today.

Debs was a socialist, not a Democrat. And by the way there's no such thing as the "Democrat Party". You just outed yourself.

Actually George H.W. Bush stole the word "liberal" in the '88 campaign. Not that it couldn't be done more than once...

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

lol. what year was that?

Hardy har har. You're just too fucking funny.

No, seriously though. Was it during Washington's administration when they bailed out Wall Street and adopted the Whiskey Tax?

The Adams Administration with the Alien and Sedition Acts?

Jefferson with his Barbary War?

Any of the other presidents who presided over our mercantilist economy prior to 1947?


I'm seriously at a loss for when you might be referring

You're making the same fallacious argument as Michael Lind. That the U.S. wasn't perfectly libertarian at any one time doesn't mean that it wasn't founded on libertarian principles, and that it wasn't largely libertarian for a period of time, or even several different periods of time.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Coriolis effect. You've explained a circular argument with another circular argument. There's still no definition. A guy using a common English adjective doesn't make a political movement.

Except I've given multiple examples of the term being used, and now you're moving the goal posts.

"Multiple examples of the term being used" means nothing. I asked for a definition. Which apparently does not exist. I can accept that.

"Progressivism is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform through government action."

Progressivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There you go, a definition.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Pogo, the advocacy of free will is liberty, hence why we get the name libertarian. We advocate liberty, not government interference in anything, whether it be perpetrated by one party or the other. There is a reason the term "liberty" is so often associated with us.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Whaaa?
That's crazy talk. Of course they're related.

liberal (adj.)
mid-14c., "generous," also, late 14c., "selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant," and, early 15c., in a bad sense "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous" (12c.), from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious," from PIE *leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base *leudh- "people" (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute "nation, people;" Old High German liut "person, people") but literally "to mount up, to grow."

libertarian (n.)
1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. As an adjective by 1882. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.

liberty (n.)
late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission, from liber "free" (see liberal)

-- Online Etymology Dictionary

The Eugene Debs socialist wing of the Democrat Party stole the term "liberal" back in the 1930s.

The meaning of the word today compared with back in the 18th century, also as compared in other languages, have almost nothing in common today.

Debs was a socialist, not a Democrat. And by the way there's no such thing as the "Democrat Party". You just outed yourself.

Actually George H.W. Bush stole the word "liberal" in the '88 campaign. Not that it couldn't be done more than once...

Origins of the word "Liberal": Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lēodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free

First Known Use: 14th century

And guess again, Eugene Debs was a "Social Democrat"

Born: Eugene Victor Debs
November 5, 1855
Terre Haute, Indiana, U.S.

Died: October 20, 1926 (aged 70)
Elmhurst, Illinois, U.S.
Political party: Socialist

Other political affiliations: Social Democratic
Democratic

- Eugene V. Debs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Pogo]

The Eugene Debs socialist wing of the Democrat Party stole the term "liberal" back in the 1930s.

The meaning of the word today compared with back in the 18th century, also as compared in other languages, have almost nothing in common today.

Debs was a socialist, not a Democrat. And by the way there's no such thing as the "Democrat Party". You just outed yourself.

Actually George H.W. Bush stole the word "liberal" in the '88 campaign. Not that it couldn't be done more than once...

Origins of the word "Liberal": Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lēodan to grow, Greek eleutheros free

First Known Use: 14th century

And guess again, Eugene Debs was a "Social Democrat"

Born: Eugene Victor Debs
November 5, 1855
Terre Haute, Indiana, U.S.

Died: October 20, 1926 (aged 70)
Elmhurst, Illinois, U.S.
Political party: Socialist

Other political affiliations: Social Democratic
Democratic

- Eugene V. Debs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "Social Democratic" Party was not the Democratic Party. It was something Debs founded himself, after he had already become a Socialist (1895) and ran for President as a Socialist (1900) under a prior Socialist party coalition, the short-lived Social Democracy for America Party.

(/irrelevant)

 

[Oddball]

Whaaa?
That's crazy talk. Of course they're related.

liberal (adj.)
mid-14c., "generous," also, late 14c., "selfless; noble, nobly born; abundant," and, early 15c., in a bad sense "extravagant, unrestrained," from Old French liberal "befitting free men, noble, generous, willing, zealous" (12c.), from Latin liberalis "noble, gracious, munificent, generous," literally "of freedom, pertaining to or befitting a free man," from liber "free, unrestricted, unimpeded; unbridled, unchecked, licentious," from PIE *leudh-ero- (cf. Greek eleutheros "free"), probably originally "belonging to the people" (though the precise semantic development is obscure), and a suffixed form of the base *leudh- "people" (cf. Old Church Slavonic ljudu, Lithuanian liaudis, Old English leod, German Leute "nation, people;" Old High German liut "person, people") but literally "to mount up, to grow."

libertarian (n.)
1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. As an adjective by 1882. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.

liberty (n.)
late 14c., "free choice, freedom to do as one chooses," from Old French liberté "freedom, liberty, free will" (14c.), from Latin libertatem (nominative libertas) "freedom, condition of a free man; absence of restraint; permission, from liber "free" (see liberal)

-- Online Etymology Dictionary

The Eugene Debs socialist wing of the Democrat Party stole the term "liberal" back in the 1930s.

The meaning of the word today compared with back in the 18th century, also as compared in other languages, have almost nothing in common today.

Debs was a socialist, not a Democrat. And by the way there's no such thing as the "Democrat Party". You just outed yourself.

Actually George H.W. Bush stole the word "liberal" in the '88 campaign. Not that it couldn't be done more than once...

Debs was originally a card-carrying member of the Democrat Party, from whom FDR stole the New Deal....The word was stolen by them because the term "progressive" had become synonymous with "socialist", which it basically is.

 

[Oddball]

lol. what year was that?

Hardy har har. You're just too fucking funny.

No, seriously though. Was it during Washington's administration when they bailed out Wall Street and adopted the Whiskey Tax?

The Adams Administration with the Alien and Sedition Acts?

Jefferson with his Barbary War?

Any of the other presidents who presided over our mercantilist economy prior to 1947?


I'm seriously at a loss for when you might be referring

All that proves is that even in those times with a strong classical liberal system in place, that those in authority would tend to use it with little regard to the consequences.

What it doesn't disprove is that there was in fact a system in place far closer to what today's libertarians envision, than the progressive-socailist welfare/warfare/nanny/police state in place today.