The Reason for Poverty Among Blacks is Not Racism

[Lisa558]

To bring it back to the point of the thread, this insistence by the Left to blame racism for the subset of blacks who remain in poverty is not only wrong, but it drives resentment and anger toward whites - and worse, doesn’t credit what it DOES take to move from poverty to the middle class (or even working class).

1) If racism was what was holding a subset of blacks in poverty, how does one explain that most blacks are middle class? Here in DC, once you move away from the inner-urban welfare districts, blacks are college educated (or at least have high school diplomas), and either living in their own houses or renting decent apartments, supporting themselves. PG County is an example of this - a large percentage of blacks, and middle to upper-middle class,

2) If bigotry is to blame for failure, then how does one explain the mass immigration of Jews around the turn of the 19th/20th century, arriving penniless, uneducated, and not speaking the language, manage to set up little shops or work in factories - and a generation later all their children college-educated professionals? This was accomplished while they witnessed the horrible antisemitism of Hitler, and had their families wiped out. (And many of these early immigrants experienced the racism first-hand, fleeing Russian pograms.)

So that these groups were able to succeed despite racism proves that racism is not the cause of poverty. These people had values and traits that allowed them to move beyond their disadvantaged beginnings: a value placed in education, motivation, discipline, intelligence, and a drive to make something better of one’s life.

These are all admirable traits, and ones we should recognize as the way out of poverty, and stop blaming outside forces for one’s poverty. it as almost always due to that individual’s poor choices.

1. Stay in school and get a HS diploma, at the minimum.
2. Do not have babies you can’t afford while you are a teen (or ever).

 

[JoeB131]

The reason for poverty among blacks who remain poor (most are working class or above) is the same reason that whites in poverty remain poor. It is due to having babies while still in one’s teens, without a husband, and often without completing high school as a result.

Anyone can break free of poverty by doing the following, at a minimum:

Um, okay, here's the thing. The incidence of teen pregnancy has dropped since precipitously since the 1990's. from 61.8/1000 to 17/1000 in 2018.

So by your dubious logic, racism and poverty should be "cured", right.

Oh, wait, no, it's remained relatively flat.

1) If you have sex while in high school (not everyone does, by the way), use birth control consistently. Double up, even, because a pregnancy at this stage of life will likely result in a life of financial struggle. Thus, your chance of an unwanted pregnancy drops from “probably” to about 1 in 200.

Actually, it's 17 in 1000 now, and oddly, we still have grinding poverty if you aren't white.

2) Unencumbered by a baby, complete high school and then use a Pell Grant to get a free community college education focused on a vocational track. That right there moves you into the lower-middle class.

That’s it. Race is not a factor. In fact, the only two poor people I interact with on a consistent basis are white women both had babies (one at 15 and one at 17) and did not complete high school.

What you mean you interact with poor people without wetting yourself. Because according to that other thread, you can't even see pictures of black people without having a major meltdown...

 

[Lisa558]

To continue, we have the Left doing the OPPOSITE of what is needed to see blacks in poverty move beyond that. Instead of emphasizing the need to stay in school, and not have babies they can’t afford, they are actually promoting the very traits that will keep them down! Never was his more apparent than when the leftist Board of the African-American museum came up with their ”traits of whiteness”:

1) Being prompt
2) Being polite
3) Speaking English well
4j Respecting authority
5) Working hard
etc.

This is like the playground taunt against a black kid who studies hard, turns in his homework on time, and is respectful to the teacher as “acting white.”

The Left is clearly invested in keeping poor blacks down, convincing them the reason for their failure are racist whites, while they are actually discouraging the very traits and behavior that would enable them to succeed.

 

[JoeB131]

To bring it back to the point of the thread, this insistence by the Left to blame racism for the subset of blacks who remain in poverty is not only wrong, but it drives resentment and anger toward whites - and worse, doesn’t credit what it DOES take to move from poverty to the middle class (or even working class).

1) If racism was what was holding a subset of blacks in poverty, how does one explain that most blacks are middle class? Here in DC, once you move away from the inner-urban welfare districts, blacks are college educated (or at least have high school diplomas), and either living in their own houses or renting decent apartments, supporting themselves. PG County is an example of this - a large percentage of blacks, and middle to upper-middle class,

That's nice. That just means they are more likely to be pulled over by a racist cop for a DWB because their car is too nice and they must have stole it. LIke this guy, got a college education, earned a commission in the US Army, and STILL got treated like this.

2) If bigotry is to blame for failure, then how does one explain the mass immigration of Jews around the turn of the 19th/20th century, arriving penniless, uneducated, and not speaking the language, manage to set up little shops or work in factories - and a generation later all their children college-educated professionals? This was accomplished while they witnessed the horrible antisemitism of Hitler, and had their families wiped out. (And many of these early immigrants experienced the racism first-hand, fleeing Russian pograms.)

Um, so how did Jews who came here in the 19th Century witness the horrors of Hitler. Hitler was on the other side of the planet.

Here's the thing. You wouldn't know a Jew was a Jew unless he told you. Blacks are always going to be easily identified as black.

As opposed to Jews, Germans, Irish, Italians, Poles, Catholics, who were "White enough" to be accepted by the Wasps. Except not really. We've only had two Catholic Irish Presidents, no Italians, maybe a couple of Germans. No Jews, obviously.

So that these groups were able to succeed despite racism proves that racism is not the cause of poverty. These people has values and traits that allowed them to move beyond their disadvantaged beginnings: a value placed in education, motivation, discipline, intelligence, and a drive to make something better of one’s life.

These are all admirable traits, and ones we should recognize as the way out of poverty, and stop blaming outside forces for one’s poverty. it as almost always due to that individual’s poor choices.

Except not really. There's a big gap between "being black" and "being a second-class white person".

The thing about the immigrants is that the immigrants had a choice about coming here and had a choice to assimilate. Which is why just one generation off the boat no one in my family except me speaks any German, and I speak it badly and had to make an effort to learn it.

We've never let the blacks assimilate. In fact, we passed laws making it a crime for people of different races to intermarry, and those laws were STILL ON THE BOOKS until 1969. So like within my lifetime.

 

[JoeB131]

To continue, we have the Left doing the OPPOSITE of what is needed to see blacks in poverty move beyond that. Instead of emphasizing the need to stay in school, and not have babies they can’t afford, they are actually promoting the very traits that will keep them down! Never was his more apparent than when the leftist Board of the African-American museum came up with their ”traits of whiteness”:

1) Being prompt
2) Being polite
3) Speaking English well
4j Respecting authority
5) Working hard
etc.

This is like the playground taunt against a black kid who studies hard, turns in his homework on time, and is respectful to the teacher as “acting white.”

The Left is clearly invested in keeping poor blacks down, convincing them the reason for their failure are racist whites, while they are actually discouraging the very traits and behavior that would enable them to succeed.

You really think that being a suck up is anything anyone of any race should aspire to?

Should also point that picking on the nerdy kid who studies hard is something kids of all races do. Which is why the nerds turn out to be such assholes when they grow up and are in charge.

"Nope, now you have to pay an annual fee for your software...muhahahahahaha"

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We've never let the blacks assimilate.

Nothing preventing them from assimilating. Assimilate means to act like other people. You don't need the other peoples permission to do that.

 

[Lisa558]

That's nice. That just means they are more likely to be pulled over by a racist cop for a DWB because their car is too nice and they must have stole it. LIke this guy, got a college education, earned a commission in the US Army, and STILL got treated like this.





Um, so how did Jews who came here in the 19th Century witness the horrors of Hitler. Hitler was on the other side of the planet.

Here's the thing. You wouldn't know a Jew was a Jew unless he told you. Blacks are always going to be easily identified as black.

As opposed to Jews, Germans, Irish, Italians, Poles, Catholics, who were "White enough" to be accepted by the Wasps. Except not really. We've only had two Catholic Irish Presidents, no Italians, maybe a couple of Germans. No Jews, obviously.



Except not really. There's a big gap between "being black" and "being a second-class white person".

The thing about the immigrants is that the immigrants had a choice about coming here and had a choice to assimilate. Which is why just one generation off the boat no one in my family except me speaks any German, and I speak it badly and had to make an effort to learn it.

We've never let the blacks assimilate. In fact, we passed laws making it a crime for people of different races to intermarry, and those laws were STILL ON THE BOOKS until 1969. So like within my lifetime.

Oh lookie, the antisemite ^^^ is back, making excuses for blacks making poor decisions while negating the unspeakable horrors Jews experienced. And yes…..having your parents and siblings be murdered for being Jewish is experiencing antisemitism.

And my grandparents did not have such a “choice” to immigrate. They were one step ahead of being murdered. One great-grandfather snuck out IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT and made it to the shore by foot, you a-hole Jew-hater! Today’s blacks have never experienced anything close to that, and yet white enablers like you are trying yo convince them “racism” is what is holding them back.

We see what you’re doing. Nobody could spew the Jew-hate you do while simultaneously blaming racism for black failures. You are trying to keep poor blacks poor, and angry at whites, because you think that’s the way to trick them into voting for the Democrats. Seen the polls lately? Blacks are waking up to how Dems are lying to them, and using them.

 

[Lisa558]

Nothing preventing them from assimilating. Assimilate means to act like other people. You don't need the other peoples permission to do that.

Another point to make…..the antisemite posted a chart showing the poverty rate is flat despite giving people who keep having babies without husbands more and more handouts. That‘s because handouts don’t work! As LBJ famously said, “give blacks enough to get their vote but not enough to make a difference” and that Dems would “have blacks - he used a racial slur instead - voting Dem for 200 years.”

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Another point to make…..the antisemite posted a chart showing the poverty rate is flat despite giving people who keep having babies without husbands more and more handouts. That‘s because handouts don’t work! As LBJ famously said, “give blacks enough to get their vote but not enough to make a difference” and that Dems would “have blacks - he used a racial slur instead - voting Dem for 200 years.”

As I posted a while back (I think it was in this topic) the CDC estimates it will cost you $233,000 to raise a middle-class child today from birth until the age of 18. A woman having three or four kids on welfare will cost the taxpayers around $800,000 assuming she is not middle-class. So when these people have children they could never afford in the first place, it keeps them in poverty for the rest of their lives because there is no way to raise those kids without government. Even if the kids grow up and she gets this surge for success, who's going to hire a woman in her 40's with no experience at anything, especially if it's a slow economy at the time?

If it were up to me, anybody applying for welfare would have to get fixed before they receive one dime. It would benefit taxpayers as well as the recipient. That's besides the fact the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree and that makes it impossible to end poverty when we pay people to create more poverty kids. And before you leftists chime in that my idea is Hitleresque, what do you think we working middle-class people do when we can't afford kids? We get ourselves fixed, so we wouldn't be asking poor people to do anything different than what we do.

 

[Lisa558]

As I posted a while back (I think it was in this topic) the CDC estimates it will cost you $233,000 to raise a middle-class child today from birth until the age of 18. A woman having three or four kids on welfare will cost the taxpayers around $800,000 assuming she is not middle-class. So when these people have children they could never afford in the first place, it keeps them in poverty for the rest of their lives because there is no way to raise those kids without government. Even if the kids grow up and she gets this surge for success, who's going to hire a woman in her 40's with no experience at anything, especially if it's a slow economy at the time?

If it were up to me, anybody applying for welfare would have to get fixed before they receive one dime. It would benefit taxpayers as well as the recipient. That's besides the fact the apple usually doesn't fall far from the tree and that makes it impossible to end poverty when we pay people to create more poverty kids. And before you leftists chime in that my idea is Hitleresque, what do you think we working middle-class people do when we can't afford kids? We get ourselves fixed, so we wouldn't be asking poor people to do anything different than what we do.

The only people I know who had more than two kids are either wealthy (because they can afford them) or poor (because they don’t have to worry about affording them). I know a young woman with four kids - three different fathers - and they are on all sorts of government support, from rent subsidy to Medicaid, and she is talking about having a fifth before she is too old. (She’s currently 25). There is never a fleeting thought as to whether she can afford another kid.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh lookie, the antisemite ^^^ is back, making excuses for blacks making poor decisions while negating the unspeakable horrors Jews experienced. And yes…..having your parents and siblings be murdered for being Jewish is experiencing antisemitism.

And my grandparents did not have such a “choice” to immigrate. They were one step ahead of being murdered. One great-grandfather snuck out IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT and made it to the shore by foot, you a-hole Jew-hater! Today’s blacks have never experienced anything close to that, and yet white enablers like you are trying yo convince them “racism” is what is holding them back.

We see what you’re doing. Nobody could spew the Jew-hate you do while simultaneously blaming racism for black failures. You are trying to keep poor blacks poor, and angry at whites, because you think that’s the way to trick them into voting for the Democrats. Seen the polls lately? Blacks are waking up to how Dems are lying to them, and using them.

My father grew up very poor with no electricity, running water in the house, with his five other siblings with the square footage of a three car garage. When he tried to get into the bricklayers union, they told him his request was declined because of his Polish heritage. They were very open about it. Before my father left the meeting, he stood up cursed them out because he was a Korean war veteran and was ashamed he fought for a country of people so prejudiced. When they learned he was a vet, the welcomed him into the union. Had a person with Polish heritage applied that was not a vet, they would have been denied for that reason alone.

Point being is that it's not just blacks that had a rough time getting ahead, it was really kind of the standard back then for a lot of people. We don't really understand it because we didn't have to face things like that.

 

[monkrules]

The only people I know who had more than two kids are either wealthy (because they can afford them) or poor (because they don’t have to worry about affording them). I know a young woman with four kids - three different fathers - and they are on all sorts of government support, from rent subsidy to Medicaid, and she is talking about having a fifth before she is too old. (She’s currently 25). There is never a fleeting thought as to whether she can afford another kid.

I grew up in a miserably impoverished area. Many nearby housing projects, loads of rental units. Loads of people on welfare.

One guy, in a family of two adult men, one adult woman, and the mother, all healthy - told me they paid 35 dollars a month to rent their apartment. They were, and remain, worthless bums, milking the welfare system and, of course Section 8.

The scumbags in this area referred to the first of each month, when welfare checks would arrive, as "Mother's Day." I could tell you horror stories about the welfare abuse.

I used to watch Judge Judy on TV. It was fairly common to see worthless, non-working clowns proudly tell that they had 8 or more kids. None of which they supported, of course.

Our welfare system and worthless government "leaders" encourage this behavior. They TRAIN people to become worthless leeches.

I'll close my little rant before this little walk down Memory Lane depresses the Hell out of me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I grew up in a miserably impoverished area. Many nearby housing projects, loads of rental units. Loads of people on welfare.

One guy, in a family of two adult men, one adult woman, and the mother, all healthy - told me they paid 35 dollars a month to rent their apartment. They were, and remain, worthless bums, milking the welfare system and, of course Section 8.

The scumbags in this area referred to the first of each month, when welfare checks would arrive, as "Mother's Day." I could tell you horror stories about the welfare abuse.

I used to watch Judge Judy on TV. It was fairly common to see worthless, non-working clowns proudly tell that they had 8 or more kids. None of which they supported, of course.

Our welfare system and worthless government "leaders" encourage this behavior. They TRAIN people to become worthless leeches.

I'll close my little rant before this little walk down Memory Lane depresses the Hell out of me.

Out of all my renters I only had to sue one in court. It was an unmarried couple with two kids, one four years old and the other twelve. They kept paying rent later and later until they were almost a month behind, so I asked them to come over to discuss the problem.

The situation was he refused to work one hour over 40 a week, and she stayed home and took care of the kids, supposedly home schooling them even though she was dumb as F herself. So my solution was for her to get a part-time job on weekends while he was home, he could watch the kids, and then they could catch up on their rent and other financial problems they had. She wouldn't even consider it. Because they were not married, she was categorized by our government as a single woman with two children, and she got $280.00 a month in food stamps, and she was not about to let that go.

I had to evict them. They stayed until the last day before the bailiff was going to come here and throw them out. Besides the two kids, they had a large dog and four cats. We were feeding them, and they were feeding their animals. I had his paycheck garnished for about a year to reclaim my losses.

 

[Lisa558]

Out of all my renters I only had to sue one in court. It was an unmarried couple with two kids, one four years old and the other twelve. They kept paying rent later and later until they were almost a month behind, so I asked them to come over to discuss the problem.

The situation was he refused to work one hour over 40 a week, and she stayed home and took care of the kids, supposedly home schooling them even though she was dumb as F herself. So my solution was for her to get a part-time job on weekends while he was home, he could watch the kids, and then they could catch up on their rent and other financial problems they had. She wouldn't even consider it. Because they were not married, she was categorized by our government as a single woman with two children, and she got $280.00 a month in food stamps, and she was not about to let that go.

I had to evict them. They stayed until the last day before the bailiff was going to come here and throw them out. Besides the two kids, they had a large dog and four cats. We were feeding them, and they were feeding their animals. I had his paycheck garnished for about a year to reclaim my losses.

I‘ve seen the same pattern. Now sure what’s up with the home schooling, but the very people who would be able to get a part-time job by putting the kids in school are stuck in the home schooling mode, when the mother herself barely squeaked though high school and in no position to take on the task.

It ends up being a lose-lose. The family loses out on much-needed income (even $12 an hour at 20 hours a week brings in $1000 a month - or more than half the rent payment!), and the kids lose out on a normal education, with other kids.

 

[Lisa558]

I grew up in a miserably impoverished area. Many nearby housing projects, loads of rental units. Loads of people on welfare.

One guy, in a family of two adult men, one adult woman, and the mother, all healthy - told me they paid 35 dollars a month to rent their apartment. They were, and remain, worthless bums, milking the welfare system and, of course Section 8.

The scumbags in this area referred to the first of each month, when welfare checks would arrive, as "Mother's Day." I could tell you horror stories about the welfare abuse.

I used to watch Judge Judy on TV. It was fairly common to see worthless, non-working clowns proudly tell that they had 8 or more kids. None of which they supported, of course.

Our welfare system and worthless government "leaders" encourage this behavior. They TRAIN people to become worthless leeches.

I'll close my little rant before this little walk down Memory Lane depresses the Hell out of me.

Yes, absolutely. Our government encourages the irresponsible behavior, and what‘s worse, we have leftists trying to convince them (and us) that refusing to get a job and living off of OPM is just as respectable choice as working to support oneself.

There’s a labor shortage right now - major! - and we still have people content to remain at home and refuse to bring in at least SOME income. What this country is missing is a sense of shame.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I‘ve seen the same pattern. Now sure what’s up with the home schooling, but the very people who would be able to get a part-time job by putting the kids in school are stuck in the home schooling mode, when the mother herself barely squeaked though high school and in no position to take on the task.

It ends up being a lose-lose. The family loses out on much-needed income (even $12 an hour at 20 hours a week brings in $1000 a month - or more than half the rent payment!), and the kids lose out on a normal education, with other kids.

Not only that but once it goes to court it's public record. it's hard enough trying to find a decent place to rent yet alone have an eviction on your record. The guy died a few years ago but I know where they moved to after I evicted them and it was a dump upstairs from some bar or something in Cleveland. From what I was told, the landlord didn't do shit and the place continued to fall apart.

Bottom line is that they chose to lose their home over food stamps. Laziness may have played a part, but I'm aware of so many similar stories outside of that experience. It must be some bizarre priority these days or something. When I was younger, the first priority is having a roof over your head, and everything else comes after.

 

[Meathead]

You have no understanding of US History or policy if you think it is not racism.

Just a 10 minute read of the Tulsa town bombings and Emmitt Till’a murder teaches you all you need to know.

Another 10 minutes of reading about the interstate highway act by Eisenhower would seal the deal.

Read a book

Why are blacks impoverished the world over? You honestly think black failure is a uniquely American phenomenon?

 

[PinktheFloyd88]

Why are blacks impoverished the world over? You honestly think black failure is a uniquely American phenomenon?

Because Africa was stripped of almost all natural resources in the 1800’s and early 1900’a and was colonized to hell and back for rubber, minerals, diamonds, etc

 

[Meathead]

Because Africa was stripped of almost all natural resources in the 1800’s and early 1900’a and was colonized to hell and back for rubber, minerals, diamonds, etc

What about Brazil, Haiti, UK, France, Belgium ... fuck, anywhere they are found they are consistently at the very bottom rung of society. Hell, in Libya half of them are slaves.

Cut the racism shit. It's an excuse for the obvious which infringes on the monolithic doctrine of political correctness.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh lookie, the antisemite ^^^ is back, making excuses for blacks making poor decisions while negating the unspeakable horrors Jews experienced. And yes…..having your parents and siblings be murdered for being Jewish is experiencing antisemitism.

Except none of that happened in this country, so there's that. I'm sure a lot of bad stuff happened to my relatives who stayed Germany. One of them was a priest who got sent to a concentration camp (ironically, the same one my dad's unit liberated) for saying stuff the Nazis didn't like. Another was killed on the Eastern Front. Another spent a couple years in an Allied Prison camp because he was a minor official who joined the NSDAP to keep his government job.

And my grandparents did not have such a “choice” to immigrate. They were one step ahead of being murdered. One great-grandfather snuck out IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT and made it to the shore by foot, you a-hole Jew-hater! Today’s blacks have never experienced anything close to that, and yet white enablers like you are trying yo convince them “racism” is what is holding them back.

No, blacks experienced much worse. Being kidnapped in their own country. Being systematically beaten and raped and worked into early graves. Then when they finally got freedom, they experienced 100 years of Jim Crow. But let's whine about what happened to people in other countries, by all means.

We see what you’re doing. Nobody could spew the Jew-hate you do while simultaneously blaming racism for black failures. You are trying to keep poor blacks poor, and angry at whites, because you think that’s the way to trick them into voting for the Democrats. Seen the polls lately? Blacks are waking up to how Dems are lying to them, and using them.

No, they aren't. Trump didn't do any better with blacks that the Mormon did. He did worse than Baby BUsh or Reagan.

Another point to make…..the antisemite posted a chart showing the poverty rate is flat despite giving people who keep having babies without husbands more and more handouts. That‘s because handouts don’t work! As LBJ famously said, “give blacks enough to get their vote but not enough to make a difference” and that Dems would “have blacks - he used a racial slur instead - voting Dem for 200 years.”

LBJ never said that. LBJ never said 90% of the things you attribute to him.

Handouts work just fine. Just ask Ray, he's on disability. We spend five times as much giving money to middle class white people through social security, Medicare, and unemployment than we do to poor black people.

The point of the charts is that you said there was a link between unwed teen motherhood and poverty... which isn't true. Teen motherhood has DROPPED LIKE A ROCK since the 1990's. Thanks to contraception programs and sex education. MEANWHILE, poverty has remained kind of the same.