The Scientific poof that GOD exists without a doubt.

[Hollie]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Dear Hollie and BULLDOG
The fairest explanation I can find on this passage is that it doesn't mean the planet earth is fixed and immovable.
Because the people back then did not see or refer to earth as a planet.

They likely meant that the land they live on, their relationship to it, does not "shift or change in positions" like the stars do.
Like the phrase describing someone as having their "feet firmly planted on the ground."

They were using earth to mean man's relationship with God is firmly established, as in the center of man's Life.

They had no knowledge or opinion of anything else like life in the universe beyond that.

That is my best interpretation.

I think what you're doing is offering special pleading in an attempt to do what the gods didn't do: require final editing rights.

Bible believers tend to follow a line of thought that applies equally to believers of competing godly texts;

"My gods are true and inerrant"

and how do we know this?

"This is what I was told the bible says"

and how do we know the bible is true?

"Because I believe it is true."

and why do you believe the bible is true?

"Because I was told the bible is true"


Consider. If you interpret Genesis as simply a parable describing a misbehaving child not following the rules of the parent, it completely dismantles Christianity. There's no original sin thus no need for a savior. Jesus becomes irrelevant and Christianity becomes meaningless.

My GOD is different from other gods. Read The Bible and read the literature concerning those other gods. As you say, it's like comparing a pair of scissors to some saw. I have a relationship, and not simply a series of tales. The story of Adam and Eve is very sad. Here we have a couple made for each other by the loving hand of GOD -- Eve is even a part of Adam. And GOD warns Adam that if they eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil things will change and not for the better.
At first Adam apparently is so concerned that it appears that he told Eve not to even so much as touch the fruit. But, Satan applied his lies and tempted both Eve and Adam by saying GOD was withholding knowledge from them, and power, and they could be like GOD. This is what Satan himself desired ------ to usurp GOD and take HIS place.

So, Eve takes and eats the fruit, and Adam must have been listening all along because He is right there to eat also. And so what happens, The prince ---- Adam, throws his beloved under the bus and even throws the blame at GOD. The woman YOU made for me did eat and gave it to me, and Eve blames the serpent. Adam doesn't say, "It's all my fault! Please punish me but don't harm Eve! Forgive me GOD... But Adam had changed. The Spirit of GOD within him had died, and he is alone.

I see nothing that separates your gods from any other gods.


We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. You need only read the OT (Hebrew scriptures stolen by christianity), and the NT to understand the morphing of the gods. Zeus was descended from earlier ancient entities, the Titans. Zeus was the son of Kronos and Rhea. Kronos was himself the child of Ouranos and Gaia. The inventors of religions tend to steal ruthlessly from earlier belief systems and earlier inventions of supernatural characters. That's evident in his formulation of christianity and not at all uncommon with other religions.

There actually are recognizable patterns where various religions tend to define their gods as simply grander and more powerful versions of their own political or social constructs you Zeus worshipping heathen, you

 

[GLASNOST]

There is no God and never has been. I challenge anyone on earth to provide any respectable evidence ...... Data comes from science not filthy religion.

The facts (so far) are in your favour.

I'll be so bold to predict that ehileever human beings inhabit this planet and ads holes point to the ground, my prediction will remain in fact.

Let's put it this day ....... THERE IS NO GOD as the OP describes it. Any creator could not possibly want humans to be as superstitious as he is.

 

[GLASNOST]

We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. .....

That is the A to Z of it.

 

[Hollie]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Again, when has the earth moved out from under your feet. And when has the earth speed up in its spinning or jumped out of orbit. Can I depend on the seasons or not? Can I count on morning, noon, and night? Does the moon go through its phases or are they undependable? I'm not going to argue with you. The truth is obvious enough for most people.

If, like many fundamentalists, you’re going to press the narrative that the Bible is the defining, absolute and authentic word of the gods, one must understand the gods didn’t supernaturally create a heliocentric solar system.

Can you depend on tornadoes and hurricanes killing people? Yes you can. Thank the gods for that. They invented convection currents and the rotation of the planet. Together, those elements cause “twisters”, and hurricanes that kill people every year. How about earthquakes and tsunami waves? The gods invented tectonic plates that occasionally slide, cause faults which topple buildings and cause massive waves that kill little Johnny and Janes. I guess that global flood thing didn’t really satiate those evil and vindictive gods.

Hooray for godly designs.

 

[LittleNipper]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Again, when has the earth moved out from under your feet. And when has the earth speed up in its spinning or jumped out of orbit. Can I depend on the seasons or not? Can I count on morning, noon, and night? Does the moon go through its phases or are they undependable? I'm not going to argue with you. The truth is obvious enough for most people.

If, like many fundamentalists, you’re going to press the narrative that the Bible is the defining, absolute and authentic word of the gods, one must understand the gods didn’t supernaturally create a heliocentric solar system.

Can you depend on tornadoes and hurricanes killing people? Yes you can. Thank the gods for that. They invented convection currents and the rotation of the planet. Together, those elements cause “twisters”, and hurricanes that kill people every year. How about earthquakes and tsunami waves? The gods invented tectonic plates that occasionally slide, cause faults which topple buildings and cause massive waves that kill little Johnny and Janes. I guess that global flood thing didn’t really satiate those evil and vindictive gods.

Hooray for godly designs.

What gods are you talking about? There is ONE GOD and HE is TRIUNE. As for twisters etc., etc., etc.... Satan is still the prince of earth. And while his days a numbered, he presently is permitted to do things. Satan is the ACCUSER and INSTIGATOR. He is able to do many things because man turns his back on GOD. Fortunately, believers are still an influence and as such help to bring about GOD's intervention and protection. There are at least 10 righteous people in Sodom at the present...

 

[LittleNipper]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Dear Hollie and BULLDOG
The fairest explanation I can find on this passage is that it doesn't mean the planet earth is fixed and immovable.
Because the people back then did not see or refer to earth as a planet.

They likely meant that the land they live on, their relationship to it, does not "shift or change in positions" like the stars do.
Like the phrase describing someone as having their "feet firmly planted on the ground."

They were using earth to mean man's relationship with God is firmly established, as in the center of man's Life.

They had no knowledge or opinion of anything else like life in the universe beyond that.

That is my best interpretation.

I think what you're doing is offering special pleading in an attempt to do what the gods didn't do: require final editing rights.

Bible believers tend to follow a line of thought that applies equally to believers of competing godly texts;

"My gods are true and inerrant"

and how do we know this?

"This is what I was told the bible says"

and how do we know the bible is true?

"Because I believe it is true."

and why do you believe the bible is true?

"Because I was told the bible is true"


Consider. If you interpret Genesis as simply a parable describing a misbehaving child not following the rules of the parent, it completely dismantles Christianity. There's no original sin thus no need for a savior. Jesus becomes irrelevant and Christianity becomes meaningless.

My GOD is different from other gods. Read The Bible and read the literature concerning those other gods. As you say, it's like comparing a pair of scissors to some saw. I have a relationship, and not simply a series of tales. The story of Adam and Eve is very sad. Here we have a couple made for each other by the loving hand of GOD -- Eve is even a part of Adam. And GOD warns Adam that if they eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil things will change and not for the better.
At first Adam apparently is so concerned that it appears that he told Eve not to even so much as touch the fruit. But, Satan applied his lies and tempted both Eve and Adam by saying GOD was withholding knowledge from them, and power, and they could be like GOD. This is what Satan himself desired ------ to usurp GOD and take HIS place.

So, Eve takes and eats the fruit, and Adam must have been listening all along because He is right there to eat also. And so what happens, The prince ---- Adam, throws his beloved under the bus and even throws the blame at GOD. The woman YOU made for me did eat and gave it to me, and Eve blames the serpent. Adam doesn't say, "It's all my fault! Please punish me but don't harm Eve! Forgive me GOD... But Adam had changed. The Spirit of GOD within him had died, and he is alone.

I see nothing that separates your gods from any other gods.


We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. You need only read the OT (Hebrew scriptures stolen by christianity), and the NT to understand the morphing of the gods. Zeus was descended from earlier ancient entities, the Titans. Zeus was the son of Kronos and Rhea. Kronos was himself the child of Ouranos and Gaia. The inventors of religions tend to steal ruthlessly from earlier belief systems and earlier inventions of supernatural characters. That's evident in his formulation of christianity and not at all uncommon with other religions.

There actually are recognizable patterns where various religions tend to define their gods as simply grander and more powerful versions of their own political or social constructs you Zeus worshipping heathen, you

My GOD created everything and always existed, unlike Zeus. My GOD is nothing like your poster child.

 

[Hollie]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Again, when has the earth moved out from under your feet. And when has the earth speed up in its spinning or jumped out of orbit. Can I depend on the seasons or not? Can I count on morning, noon, and night? Does the moon go through its phases or are they undependable? I'm not going to argue with you. The truth is obvious enough for most people.

If, like many fundamentalists, you’re going to press the narrative that the Bible is the defining, absolute and authentic word of the gods, one must understand the gods didn’t supernaturally create a heliocentric solar system.

Can you depend on tornadoes and hurricanes killing people? Yes you can. Thank the gods for that. They invented convection currents and the rotation of the planet. Together, those elements cause “twisters”, and hurricanes that kill people every year. How about earthquakes and tsunami waves? The gods invented tectonic plates that occasionally slide, cause faults which topple buildings and cause massive waves that kill little Johnny and Janes. I guess that global flood thing didn’t really satiate those evil and vindictive gods.

Hooray for godly designs.

What gods are you talking about? There is ONE GOD and HE is TRIUNE. As for twisters etc., etc., etc.... Satan is still the prince of earth. And while his days a numbered, he presently is permitted to do things. Satan is the ACCUSER and INSTIGATOR. He is able to do many things because man turns his back on GOD. Fortunately, believers are still an influence and as such help to bring about GOD's intervention and protection. There are at least 10 righteous people in Sodom at the present...

It appears that your gods are too weak and ineffective to counter a "satan" character. Do you spend your life in trembling fear of princely Satan's? Why?

 

[Hollie]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Dear Hollie and BULLDOG
The fairest explanation I can find on this passage is that it doesn't mean the planet earth is fixed and immovable.
Because the people back then did not see or refer to earth as a planet.

They likely meant that the land they live on, their relationship to it, does not "shift or change in positions" like the stars do.
Like the phrase describing someone as having their "feet firmly planted on the ground."

They were using earth to mean man's relationship with God is firmly established, as in the center of man's Life.

They had no knowledge or opinion of anything else like life in the universe beyond that.

That is my best interpretation.

I think what you're doing is offering special pleading in an attempt to do what the gods didn't do: require final editing rights.

Bible believers tend to follow a line of thought that applies equally to believers of competing godly texts;

"My gods are true and inerrant"

and how do we know this?

"This is what I was told the bible says"

and how do we know the bible is true?

"Because I believe it is true."

and why do you believe the bible is true?

"Because I was told the bible is true"


Consider. If you interpret Genesis as simply a parable describing a misbehaving child not following the rules of the parent, it completely dismantles Christianity. There's no original sin thus no need for a savior. Jesus becomes irrelevant and Christianity becomes meaningless.

My GOD is different from other gods. Read The Bible and read the literature concerning those other gods. As you say, it's like comparing a pair of scissors to some saw. I have a relationship, and not simply a series of tales. The story of Adam and Eve is very sad. Here we have a couple made for each other by the loving hand of GOD -- Eve is even a part of Adam. And GOD warns Adam that if they eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil things will change and not for the better.
At first Adam apparently is so concerned that it appears that he told Eve not to even so much as touch the fruit. But, Satan applied his lies and tempted both Eve and Adam by saying GOD was withholding knowledge from them, and power, and they could be like GOD. This is what Satan himself desired ------ to usurp GOD and take HIS place.

So, Eve takes and eats the fruit, and Adam must have been listening all along because He is right there to eat also. And so what happens, The prince ---- Adam, throws his beloved under the bus and even throws the blame at GOD. The woman YOU made for me did eat and gave it to me, and Eve blames the serpent. Adam doesn't say, "It's all my fault! Please punish me but don't harm Eve! Forgive me GOD... But Adam had changed. The Spirit of GOD within him had died, and he is alone.

I see nothing that separates your gods from any other gods.


We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. You need only read the OT (Hebrew scriptures stolen by christianity), and the NT to understand the morphing of the gods. Zeus was descended from earlier ancient entities, the Titans. Zeus was the son of Kronos and Rhea. Kronos was himself the child of Ouranos and Gaia. The inventors of religions tend to steal ruthlessly from earlier belief systems and earlier inventions of supernatural characters. That's evident in his formulation of christianity and not at all uncommon with other religions.

There actually are recognizable patterns where various religions tend to define their gods as simply grander and more powerful versions of their own political or social constructs you Zeus worshipping heathen, you

My GOD created everything and always existed, unlike Zeus. My GOD is nothing like your poster child.

Your gods are subordinate to my gods.

 

[BULLDOG]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Again, when has the earth moved out from under your feet. And when has the earth speed up in its spinning or jumped out of orbit. Can I depend on the seasons or not? Can I count on morning, noon, and night? Does the moon go through its phases or are they undependable? I'm not going to argue with you. The truth is obvious enough for most people.

If, like many fundamentalists, you’re going to press the narrative that the Bible is the defining, absolute and authentic word of the gods, one must understand the gods didn’t supernaturally create a heliocentric solar system.

Can you depend on tornadoes and hurricanes killing people? Yes you can. Thank the gods for that. They invented convection currents and the rotation of the planet. Together, those elements cause “twisters”, and hurricanes that kill people every year. How about earthquakes and tsunami waves? The gods invented tectonic plates that occasionally slide, cause faults which topple buildings and cause massive waves that kill little Johnny and Janes. I guess that global flood thing didn’t really satiate those evil and vindictive gods.

Hooray for godly designs.

What gods are you talking about? There is ONE GOD and HE is TRIUNE. As for twisters etc., etc., etc.... Satan is still the prince of earth. And while his days a numbered, he presently is permitted to do things. Satan is the ACCUSER and INSTIGATOR. He is able to do many things because man turns his back on GOD. Fortunately, believers are still an influence and as such help to bring about GOD's intervention and protection. There are at least 10 righteous people in Sodom at the present...

So Satan is powerful enough to literally change God's design, and God can't fix it back?

 

[BULLDOG]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Dear Hollie and BULLDOG
The fairest explanation I can find on this passage is that it doesn't mean the planet earth is fixed and immovable.
Because the people back then did not see or refer to earth as a planet.

They likely meant that the land they live on, their relationship to it, does not "shift or change in positions" like the stars do.
Like the phrase describing someone as having their "feet firmly planted on the ground."

They were using earth to mean man's relationship with God is firmly established, as in the center of man's Life.

They had no knowledge or opinion of anything else like life in the universe beyond that.

That is my best interpretation.

I think what you're doing is offering special pleading in an attempt to do what the gods didn't do: require final editing rights.

Bible believers tend to follow a line of thought that applies equally to believers of competing godly texts;

"My gods are true and inerrant"

and how do we know this?

"This is what I was told the bible says"

and how do we know the bible is true?

"Because I believe it is true."

and why do you believe the bible is true?

"Because I was told the bible is true"


Consider. If you interpret Genesis as simply a parable describing a misbehaving child not following the rules of the parent, it completely dismantles Christianity. There's no original sin thus no need for a savior. Jesus becomes irrelevant and Christianity becomes meaningless.

My GOD is different from other gods. Read The Bible and read the literature concerning those other gods. As you say, it's like comparing a pair of scissors to some saw. I have a relationship, and not simply a series of tales. The story of Adam and Eve is very sad. Here we have a couple made for each other by the loving hand of GOD -- Eve is even a part of Adam. And GOD warns Adam that if they eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil things will change and not for the better.
At first Adam apparently is so concerned that it appears that he told Eve not to even so much as touch the fruit. But, Satan applied his lies and tempted both Eve and Adam by saying GOD was withholding knowledge from them, and power, and they could be like GOD. This is what Satan himself desired ------ to usurp GOD and take HIS place.

So, Eve takes and eats the fruit, and Adam must have been listening all along because He is right there to eat also. And so what happens, The prince ---- Adam, throws his beloved under the bus and even throws the blame at GOD. The woman YOU made for me did eat and gave it to me, and Eve blames the serpent. Adam doesn't say, "It's all my fault! Please punish me but don't harm Eve! Forgive me GOD... But Adam had changed. The Spirit of GOD within him had died, and he is alone.

I see nothing that separates your gods from any other gods.


We see in religions the morphing of characteristics that define the gods people invent. You need only read the OT (Hebrew scriptures stolen by christianity), and the NT to understand the morphing of the gods. Zeus was descended from earlier ancient entities, the Titans. Zeus was the son of Kronos and Rhea. Kronos was himself the child of Ouranos and Gaia. The inventors of religions tend to steal ruthlessly from earlier belief systems and earlier inventions of supernatural characters. That's evident in his formulation of christianity and not at all uncommon with other religions.

There actually are recognizable patterns where various religions tend to define their gods as simply grander and more powerful versions of their own political or social constructs you Zeus worshipping heathen, you

My GOD created everything and always existed, unlike Zeus. My GOD is nothing like your poster child.

Sounds amazing, but we still need to see that scientific proof you promised.

 

[ReinyDays]

... still waiting for that citation Emily ...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.

How about you present the main argument in your own words. Then link to the data that is being used as evidence. Thanks.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Let's review:

Crazy guy ranting on YouTube = scientific evidence

Mountains of mutually supportive scientific evidence for evolution = not scientific evidence

LittleNipper = *cuckoo*

 

[Hollie]

Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.

 

[BULLDOG]

Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.

You know the quickest way to end this thread, don't you?

 

[Astrostar]

The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.

Got to give the god crowd credit; they are dedicated to their cause. But, just like the Trump Cult's "stolen election," they have no proof whatsoever. So, they keep trying to manufacture some. Good luck with that! Bigly!!!

 

[LittleNipper]

I watched the first 10 minutes. If God existed before time, why couldn't the cause of the Big Bang have existed before time?

Exactly BULLDOG
No matter how we define God, the Universe or the Source of all Life,
there can always be something that caused that thing to come into existence.

The Universe, including God, can thus be seen as eternal or infinite, self existent, with no beginning and no end.

Since we as humans are finite, in knowledge language and perception, whatever is true about God, the Universe, or Life is faith based, can neither be proven nor disproven to exist or not.

Since this is faith based, what we rely on is whether we can reach agreement on what is true or right.

As long as we agree that God represents the greatest good or collective truth, we can still communicate and operate effectively. Regardless of proof or not.

Hebrews 3:4 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Again with an appeal to authority fallacy.

• Gravity. Job 26:7. He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. ...
• Water Cycle. Job 26:8. He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight. ...
• The Earth's Core. Job 28: 5. The earth, from which food comes, is transformed below as by fire.

Chronicles 16:30 "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable'' A Geocentric model might be wrong. You have some handy 'quotes'?

Out planet follows a course, it's not simply drifting in space. How would ancient man know all this?

The Bible verse includes the term "immovable".

How did the gods get that so wrong?

Maybe it refers to climate change or flat earth believers. Who are proof of the immovable!

Or, those who wrote of an immovable earth believed the earth was exactly that. That's what they wrote.

Again, when has the earth moved out from under your feet. And when has the earth speed up in its spinning or jumped out of orbit. Can I depend on the seasons or not? Can I count on morning, noon, and night? Does the moon go through its phases or are they undependable? I'm not going to argue with you. The truth is obvious enough for most people.

If, like many fundamentalists, you’re going to press the narrative that the Bible is the defining, absolute and authentic word of the gods, one must understand the gods didn’t supernaturally create a heliocentric solar system.

Can you depend on tornadoes and hurricanes killing people? Yes you can. Thank the gods for that. They invented convection currents and the rotation of the planet. Together, those elements cause “twisters”, and hurricanes that kill people every year. How about earthquakes and tsunami waves? The gods invented tectonic plates that occasionally slide, cause faults which topple buildings and cause massive waves that kill little Johnny and Janes. I guess that global flood thing didn’t really satiate those evil and vindictive gods.

Hooray for godly designs.

What gods are you talking about? There is ONE GOD and HE is TRIUNE. As for twisters etc., etc., etc.... Satan is still the prince of earth. And while his days a numbered, he presently is permitted to do things. Satan is the ACCUSER and INSTIGATOR. He is able to do many things because man turns his back on GOD. Fortunately, believers are still an influence and as such help to bring about GOD's intervention and protection. There are at least 10 righteous people in Sodom at the present...

It appears that your gods are too weak and ineffective to counter a "satan" character. Do you spend your life in trembling fear of princely Satan's? Why?

No, I do not fear Satan. I am concerned for your eternity. Satan can control, manipulate, and confuse the unsaved against their will. Such is impossible for the saved. Though still imperfect in this life, the saved are under GOD's protection and guidance. The saved are seen by GOD through the blood of the MESSIAH.

 

[LittleNipper]

The Physicist Hugh Ross simply explains how the Universe proves that GOD must exist.

Got to give the god crowd credit; they are dedicated to their cause. But, just like the Trump Cult's "stolen election," they have no proof whatsoever. So, they keep trying to manufacture some. Good luck with that! Bigly!!!

What proof would satisfy you? Would you accept a sermon from Saint Peter or Saint Paul? Would you accept Jesus HIMSELF. The Pharisees and Sadducees did not. And they had the very miracles of heaven to witness. It will be worse for them than for you; however, it will be far worse for you than an unreached native who never heard.

 

[GLASNOST]

Winding down page 9 in a yet another thread following an endless parade of threads claiming ‘pwoofs’ of the gods and…… no pwoof.

The OP claim went "pwoof" before the ink was dry.

 

[GLASNOST]

What proof would satisfy you? .... Would you accept Jesus HIMSELF. .....

Yes. Is that an offer? Bring him down. Let's take a good look at him. I want to see the cut of his jib and ask him if he can recommend a good barber. Glory in the highest! You are on the threshold of fulfilling your mission in this life! You are finally going to convert someone. Wow! Meet me outside of Marcello's Pizza this Saturday, weather permitting. Tell him to bring his wallet but to leave the locusts at home.