The Truth about Mormons

[froggy]

when you know things ahead of time your able guess the out come, joe being part of the slave smuggling movement, was privy to alot of inside info. if i war to predict war i would include things that i knew would happen like i know there would be blood shed and death, the first tactic of going to war is to ask someone to join you.

Alright, so if I understand you correctly, Joseph Smith accurately predicted the circumstances dealing with the start of the Civil war and world wars because he was involved in a conspiracy to start them. And the fact that he died decades prior to the Civil war doesnt matter. I suppose that was his way of covering up his involvement. After all, no one would suspect a dead man right?

James McPherson in Battle Cry of Freedom offers a summary of conditions prior to the Civil War that contributed to it and exacerbated tensions.( Even prior to Smith's prophecy, it would not have been difficult to foresee a war coming. McPherson notes that there were a number of expected dividing lines as the country grew in the period from 1800-1850 (rich/poor, Catholic/Protestant, rural/urban), but the "greatest danger to American survival" at this stage was the question of slavery. Why? Because slavery was associated with competing ideals that just happened to also have geographic associations.) The institution was so contrary to what he argued were desirable values that he predicted a conflict that would result in the destruction of slavery. And Mormons might consider that one reason why Joseph Smith and the Saints were driven out of their locales in Missouri, in 1838-9, was because they were suspected of being favorable to abolition of slavery. South Carolina had advocated the doctrine of "nullification," arguing that a state could nullify federal laws or taxes that they ruled to be unconstitutional. If there was federal resistance, then South Carolina said they could leave the Union. These were all facts that smith knew, do the math.

 

[froggy]

In sum, I find little here to suggest that Joseph Smith was gifted with any unusual prophetic insight here, although with much of this prophecy in the "yet fulfilled" category it is not possible to be categorically too harsh without compromising certain orthodox prophetic positions. The few points that are fulfilled with certainty would be easily drawn from the politics and society of the day.

 

[Truthspeaker]

when you know things ahead of time your able guess the out come, joe being part of the slave smuggling movement, was privy to alot of inside info. if i war to predict war i would include things that i knew would happen like i know there would be blood shed and death, the first tactic of going to war is to ask someone to join you.

Alright, so if I understand you correctly, Joseph Smith accurately predicted the circumstances dealing with the start of the Civil war and world wars because he was involved in a conspiracy to start them. And the fact that he died decades prior to the Civil war doesnt matter. I suppose that was his way of covering up his involvement. After all, no one would suspect a dead man right?

16 years is decades, and if he'd said some will be killed with a knife you would jumped for joy that he was right. what was he right about that you could not have guessed if you were predicting a war.

The prophecy was given on christmas day in 1832, the war started on april 12th 1861. that's almost 29 years which happens 2 be real close to 30 and not 16 professor. 16 would still be impressive but double the years and double the amazment.

And how specific do you want him to be? He named the state the war would start in, that Great Britain would be called on specifically by the south for aid, that slaves would become soldiers for the north, even that Indians would partake heavily in the war and kill many europeans. This was proven to be true as 20,000 indians enlisted for the civil war and killed many white europeans.
If he was such a good guesser, then he could have guessed that people were going to try and kill him for it.......Wait.....He did that too.

 

[froggy]

Of course in your eyes being charged means guilty right? He was cleared of all accusations ever brought against him.

=====================

Better check that statement, bright eyes.

Oh Jeez, you're such a nittpicker. SLIGHT correction. He was acquitted in all trials that he LIVED to finish. Let me be accurate to the letter in stating he was never convicted of any crime. Only inhumanely imprisoned without conviction.

That good enough for you?

Part of the reason the mob slew him the night before his trial was because they knew they had NOTHING against him by way of justice and law. They tried and tried so many times to get him condemned in court, even with their own supplanted local judges, that they just went crazy knowing they couldn't get the job done legally. The only way they could get the verdict they desired was a trial by bullets. God rest his soul.

Just like today, career criminals are hard to get convicted.

 

[Truthspeaker]

when you know things ahead of time your able guess the out come, joe being part of the slave smuggling movement, was privy to alot of inside info. if i war to predict war i would include things that i knew would happen like i know there would be blood shed and death, the first tactic of going to war is to ask someone to join you.

Pathetic try. You just don't guess that many things that accurately that far in advance. And then do it again and again on different issues.

wheres the again and agian.

Prophesied of his own death, prophesied of the settling of the Saints in the Rocky mountains, prophesied that Willard Richards would "be among his enemies, surrounded by bullets and would not be harmed." How many more prophecies do you want? 4? 5? 12?
How many correct prophecies must someone make before you will believe he was a prophet?

Answer me this question? do you believe John the Baptist was a prophet? I assume you do. But can you tell me even one of the prophecies he uttered? They aren't written down. Well Jesus said there was never a greater prophet among all the children of Adam than John but yet to you he is not a prophet because his prophecies are not in the Bible. Wouldn't you like to know more of what he prophesied about if you knew his writings were out there to be discovered?

 

[froggy]

Alright, so if I understand you correctly, Joseph Smith accurately predicted the circumstances dealing with the start of the Civil war and world wars because he was involved in a conspiracy to start them. And the fact that he died decades prior to the Civil war doesnt matter. I suppose that was his way of covering up his involvement. After all, no one would suspect a dead man right?

16 years is decades, and if he'd said some will be killed with a knife you would jumped for joy that he was right. what was he right about that you could not have guessed if you were predicting a war.

The prophecy was given on christmas day in 1832, the war started on april 12th 1861. that's almost 29 years which happens 2 be real close to 30 and not 16 professor. 16 would still be impressive but double the years and double the amazment.

And how specific do you want him to be? He named the state the war would start in, that Great Britain would be called on specifically by the south for aid, that slaves would become soldiers for the north, even that Indians would partake heavily in the war and kill many europeans. This was proven to be true as 20,000 indians enlisted for the civil war and killed many white europeans.
If he was such a good guesser, then he could have guessed that people were going to try and kill him for it.......Wait.....He did that too.

i think it was in response to, and i quote "And the fact that he died decades prior to the cival war doesnt matter"

 

[Truthspeaker]

The death of Joseph Smith, Jr. on June 27, 1844 marked a turning point for the Latter Day Saint movement, of which Smith was the founder and leader. When he was attacked and killed by a mob, Smith was serving as the mayor of Nauvoo, Illinois, and running for President of the United States. He was killed while jailed in Carthage, Illinois on charges relating to his ordering the destruction of facilities producing the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper whose first and only edition claimed Smith was practicing polygamy and that he intended to set himself up as a theocratic king. While Smith was in jail awaiting trial, an armed mob of men with painted faces stormed the jail and shot him and his brother Hyrum to death.

The rag that was called the Nauvoo Expositor was full of lies and half truths, mingled with a few truths. They also were inciting violence by calling the people to arms to shoot smith in the paper. That is not freedom of speech, that is riot. He never planned to set himself up as a king of any kind. As mayor of the city it was his job to put down rioting and mob-mongering. The responsibility of a mayor is to remove any nuisances from the public and he did his responsibility. He was then tried for inhibiting freedom of speech. It is clear to any lawyer that he would have been acquitted. The rest you printed is true.

 

[froggy]

The death of Joseph Smith, Jr. on June 27, 1844 marked a turning point for the Latter Day Saint movement, of which Smith was the founder and leader. When he was attacked and killed by a mob, Smith was serving as the mayor of Nauvoo, Illinois, and running for President of the United States. He was killed while jailed in Carthage, Illinois on charges relating to his ordering the destruction of facilities producing the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper whose first and only edition claimed Smith was practicing polygamy and that he intended to set himself up as a theocratic king. While Smith was in jail awaiting trial, an armed mob of men with painted faces stormed the jail and shot him and his brother Hyrum to death.

The rag that was called the Nauvoo Expositor was full of lies and half truths, mingled with a few truths. They also were inciting violence by calling the people to arms to shoot smith in the paper. That is not freedom of speech, that is riot. He never planned to set himself up as a king of any kind. As mayor of the city it was his job to put down rioting and mob-mongering. The responsibility of a mayor is to remove any nuisances from the public and he did his responsibility. He was then tried for inhibiting freedom of speech. It is clear to any lawyer that he would have been acquitted. The rest you printed is true.

sounds more to me he didnt want anyone printing the truth of him.

 

[froggy]

Alright, so if I understand you correctly, Joseph Smith accurately predicted the circumstances dealing with the start of the Civil war and world wars because he was involved in a conspiracy to start them. And the fact that he died decades prior to the Civil war doesnt matter. I suppose that was his way of covering up his involvement. After all, no one would suspect a dead man right?

16 years is decades, and if he'd said some will be killed with a knife you would jumped for joy that he was right. what was he right about that you could not have guessed if you were predicting a war.

The prophecy was given on christmas day in 1832, the war started on april 12th 1861. that's almost 29 years which happens 2 be real close to 30 and not 16 professor. 16 would still be impressive but double the years and double the amazment.

And how specific do you want him to be? He named the state the war would start in, that Great Britain would be called on specifically by the south for aid, that slaves would become soldiers for the north, even that Indians would partake heavily in the war and kill many europeans. This was proven to be true as 20,000 indians enlisted for the civil war and killed many white europeans.
If he was such a good guesser, then he could have guessed that people were going to try and kill him for it.......Wait.....He did that too.

talk of cival war started 60 years before the war itself.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It is so plain to tell what is copied and pasted and what is actually written by you.

Several of Smith's disaffected associates at Nauvoo and Hancock County, Illinois joined together to publish a newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor. Its first and only issue was published June 7, 1844.[1] Some of these associates had alleged that Smith tried to marry their wives. About eight of Smith's wives were also married to other men (four were Mormon men in good standing, who in a few cases acted as a witness in Smith's marriage to his wife) at the time they married Smith. Typically, these women continued to live with their first husband, not Smith. Some accounts say Smith may have had sexual relations with some of his other wives, and one wife later in her life stated that he fathered children by one or two of his wives.

Plagiarized....How do I know? First because there are no spelling mistakes. Second because the vocabulary and diction are beyond your scope of capability. Third is just a hunch because I've heard this exact article published by 8-Ball who copied and pasted from an anti-mormon website. Either you plagiarized from him or you plagiarized from the author of the article on the website. Which is it?

Just for your ejumacation. Plagiarism is when you cite someone elses words and claim them as your own. Lesson over.

Looks like a scammer to me. Always in trouble with the law. Career criminal.

Clearly written by you. This short curt answer is in character with all the other "original" things you've written. I can almost hear the whiny tone in this last pearl of yours. Kinda like that black guy from Beverly Hills Cop who spoke like a white guy and said "Yeah....And we're not gonna fall for a banana in the tailpipe this time."

 

[froggy]

It is so plain to tell what is copied and pasted and what is actually written by you.

Several of Smith's disaffected associates at Nauvoo and Hancock County, Illinois joined together to publish a newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor. Its first and only issue was published June 7, 1844.[1] Some of these associates had alleged that Smith tried to marry their wives. About eight of Smith's wives were also married to other men (four were Mormon men in good standing, who in a few cases acted as a witness in Smith's marriage to his wife) at the time they married Smith. Typically, these women continued to live with their first husband, not Smith. Some accounts say Smith may have had sexual relations with some of his other wives, and one wife later in her life stated that he fathered children by one or two of his wives.

Plagiarized....How do I know? First because there are no spelling mistakes. Second because the vocabulary and diction are beyond your scope of capability. Third is just a hunch because I've heard this exact article published by 8-Ball who copied and pasted from an anti-mormon website. Either you plagiarized from him or you plagiarized from the author of the article on the website. Which is it.

Just for your ejumacation. Plagiarism is when you cite someone elses words and claim them as your own. Lesson over.

Looks like a scammer to me. Always in trouble with the law. Career criminal.

Clearly written to you. This short curt answer is in character with all the other "original" things you've written. I can almost hear the whiny tone in this last pearl of yours. Kinda like that black guy from Beverly Hills Cop who spoke like a white guy and said "Yeah....And we're not gonna fall for a banana in the tailpipe this time."

Oh, i must of hit a nerve there.

 

[Truthspeaker]

16 years is decades, and if he'd said some will be killed with a knife you would jumped for joy that he was right. what was he right about that you could not have guessed if you were predicting a war.

The prophecy was given on christmas day in 1832, the war started on april 12th 1861. that's almost 29 years which happens 2 be real close to 30 and not 16 professor. 16 would still be impressive but double the years and double the amazment.

And how specific do you want him to be? He named the state the war would start in, that Great Britain would be called on specifically by the south for aid, that slaves would become soldiers for the north, even that Indians would partake heavily in the war and kill many europeans. This was proven to be true as 20,000 indians enlisted for the civil war and killed many white europeans.
If he was such a good guesser, then he could have guessed that people were going to try and kill him for it.......Wait.....He did that too.

i think it was in response to, and i quote "And the fact that he died decades prior to the cival war doesnt matter"

ok even mormons aren't perfect. Yer got me on that one partner. I didn't read Avatar's post correctly.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Of course in your eyes being charged means guilty right? He was cleared of all accusations ever brought against him.

=====================

Better check that statement, bright eyes.

Oh Jeez, you're such a nittpicker. SLIGHT correction. He was acquitted in all trials that he LIVED to finish. Let me be accurate to the letter in stating he was never convicted of any crime. Only inhumanely imprisoned without conviction.

That good enough for you?

Part of the reason the mob slew him the night before his trial was because they knew they had NOTHING against him by way of justice and law. They tried and tried so many times to get him condemned in court, even with their own supplanted local judges, that they just went crazy knowing they couldn't get the job done legally. The only way they could get the verdict they desired was a trial by bullets. God rest his soul.

Just like today, career criminals are hard to get convicted.

In the US. people are innocent until proven guilty. Some people we have our hunches about but Smith was SO far away from what they accused him of that it was ridiculous.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The death of Joseph Smith, Jr. on June 27, 1844 marked a turning point for the Latter Day Saint movement, of which Smith was the founder and leader. When he was attacked and killed by a mob, Smith was serving as the mayor of Nauvoo, Illinois, and running for President of the United States. He was killed while jailed in Carthage, Illinois on charges relating to his ordering the destruction of facilities producing the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper whose first and only edition claimed Smith was practicing polygamy and that he intended to set himself up as a theocratic king. While Smith was in jail awaiting trial, an armed mob of men with painted faces stormed the jail and shot him and his brother Hyrum to death.

The rag that was called the Nauvoo Expositor was full of lies and half truths, mingled with a few truths. They also were inciting violence by calling the people to arms to shoot smith in the paper. That is not freedom of speech, that is riot. He never planned to set himself up as a king of any kind. As mayor of the city it was his job to put down rioting and mob-mongering. The responsibility of a mayor is to remove any nuisances from the public and he did his responsibility. He was then tried for inhibiting freedom of speech. It is clear to any lawyer that he would have been acquitted. The rest you printed is true.

sounds more to me he didnt want anyone printing the truth of him.

How so?

 

[Truthspeaker]

16 years is decades, and if he'd said some will be killed with a knife you would jumped for joy that he was right. what was he right about that you could not have guessed if you were predicting a war.

The prophecy was given on christmas day in 1832, the war started on april 12th 1861. that's almost 29 years which happens 2 be real close to 30 and not 16 professor. 16 would still be impressive but double the years and double the amazment.

And how specific do you want him to be? He named the state the war would start in, that Great Britain would be called on specifically by the south for aid, that slaves would become soldiers for the north, even that Indians would partake heavily in the war and kill many europeans. This was proven to be true as 20,000 indians enlisted for the civil war and killed many white europeans.
If he was such a good guesser, then he could have guessed that people were going to try and kill him for it.......Wait.....He did that too.

talk of cival war started 60 years before the war itself.

So what?

 

[froggy]

The rag that was called the Nauvoo Expositor was full of lies and half truths, mingled with a few truths. They also were inciting violence by calling the people to arms to shoot smith in the paper. That is not freedom of speech, that is riot. He never planned to set himself up as a king of any kind. As mayor of the city it was his job to put down rioting and mob-mongering. The responsibility of a mayor is to remove any nuisances from the public and he did his responsibility. He was then tried for inhibiting freedom of speech. It is clear to any lawyer that he would have been acquitted. The rest you printed is true.

sounds more to me he didnt want anyone printing the truth of him.

How so?

The newspaper print something bad about you, and then you go and blow up the press stamping them out for good.

 

[Avatar4321]

In sum, I find little here to suggest that Joseph Smith was gifted with any unusual prophetic insight here, although with much of this prophecy in the "yet fulfilled" category it is not possible to be categorically too harsh without compromising certain orthodox prophetic positions. The few points that are fulfilled with certainty would be easily drawn from the politics and society of the day.

Course you dont. Accurately predicting future events is hardly evidence of a prophetic calling. I suppose healing the sick isnt either. Teaching legitimate Christian doctrine lost for centuries probably doesnt count in your book either.

But since you think that Josephs predictions didnt take much insight, perhaps you could tell me where the next major global war will begin and what the consequences of that war will be. After all, it shouldnt be tough. In fact, since you claim to be so close to God, you should ask Him and do even better than Joseph. Im eagerly waiting.

 

[froggy]

In sum, I find little here to suggest that Joseph Smith was gifted with any unusual prophetic insight here, although with much of this prophecy in the "yet fulfilled" category it is not possible to be categorically too harsh without compromising certain orthodox prophetic positions. The few points that are fulfilled with certainty would be easily drawn from the politics and society of the day.

Course you dont. Accurately predicting future events is hardly evidence of a prophetic calling. I suppose healing the sick isnt either. Teaching legitimate Christian doctrine lost for centuries probably doesnt count in your book either.

But since you think that Josephs predictions didnt take much insight, perhaps you could tell me where the next major global war will begin and what the consequences of that war will be. After all, it shouldnt be tough. In fact, since you claim to be so close to God, you should ask Him and do even better than Joseph. Im eagerly waiting.

If i had lived my life as a con, like joe i'd tell you.

 

[Avatar4321]

The newspaper print something bad about you, and then you go and blow up the press stamping them out for good.

hardly. Your view of history is rather jaded.

 

[froggy]

The newspaper print something bad about you, and then you go and blow up the press stamping them out for good.

hardly. Your view of history is rather jaded.

And yours, only comes from the book of mormon.