The Truth about Mormons

[JakeStarkey]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

Good question. The plates WERE made available to 13 different people, all who swore to holding them.

Although the plates themselves were purposefully hidden from the "professors" of the day, a sample of the charactors found on the plates were submitted to two professors of ancient scholarship who pronounced the charactors to be authentic.

Why weren't the plates themselves presented. There are several reasons why:

1. This was to be a trial of faith. God has always worked this way. He always wants us to excercise faith before he proves anything to us.
2. It was a different time in Joseph's day and far less governed. Many people were trying to steal the plates from Joseph. The would be thieves knew he had them. They were thought to be made of pure gold which would have made them worth a fortune. If they were stolen, they would have been lost forever, probably melted down and traded in for the value.
3. God would not allow this priceless treasure of information to pass into the hands of corrupt men.

After this sparkling analysis by you, the rest of thinking humanity are supposed to take this testimony as believable? Truth and RGS, testimonies are only for the individual, never for cooboration of another's belief. This is America, and I am glad we have the right to believe what we want. Have a blast with it.

 

[Avatar4321]

"I post drunk." - Autozona

"I like little boys" - Dr. House

Why on earth are you telling Dr. House that you like little boys? You've got serious issues man.

 

[Avatar4321]

how about the age of them.

Can you do that with metal?

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

Other objects found with it: Urim and Thumim, The Sword of Laban, and the Liahona. At least I think that's all of them. I dont know that any of them have any carbon to test.

I dont think something intentionally buried would be as easy to date as something that just casually fell to the ground and was eventually lost over time.

 

[Avatar4321]

And exactly how would you authenticate them, pray tell?

how about the age of them.

The plates could be carbon dated if God decided to make them available again. And he will. We will all get to see them eventually. They would be carbon dated between 2600 and 1700 years old.

Carbon dating would be impossible with metal objects.

 

[Avatar4321]

A lot of religions are fake, but any religion found in the states is phony. Look at Scientology. It is laughable as well. Just saying. Good luck idiots.

So what youre saying is that only a religion founded in another country can be valid. Christ was truly accurate when He testified that "A prophet has no honor in his own country."

 

[Avatar4321]

After this sparkling analysis by you, the rest of thinking humanity are supposed to take this testimony as believable? Truth and RGS, testimonies are only for the individual, never for cooboration of another's belief. This is America, and I am glad we have the right to believe what we want. Have a blast with it.

They saw the plates. They testified to the world that they saw them. And they invited all men everywhere to learn for themselves by asking God. This is a key that is lost on alot of people in the world. and Im not talking just about the Book of Mormon. I mean as a principle in general.

I've asked people why they believe what they do. And there are tons of responses usually. Rarely does anyone say they believe what they do because they asked God whether it was true. In fact, I've only seen one group of people consistantly say that.

Clearly my analysis is anecdotal. But its amazing how many people just refuse to ask God. I mean how are you supposed to follow God if you dont talk to Him and dont listen when He does speak?

I've seen tons of people proclaim their belief in the Bible, but they never question whether they understand it correctly. They just think that because they were taught certain verses mean something or when they think they mean something, thats what they mean. They never ask to see if they are correct.

I think we would see a much different world if we had people asking God in faith to teach them. I dont think God is silent. I think He is more than willing to teach people who come to Him humbly willing to learn and willing to put in the effort to do so. But people fail to do that.

I admit I have had times when I havent been so good about it. But I can literally see the difference. When I am seeking the Spirit to teach me and studying hard I can learn so much more easily than when Im not. Life is much happier as well.

A man cannot be saved in ignorance. If a man is saved He cannot remain ignorant to the things of God. Each man may learn at a different rate, but he will learn or he cannot be saved.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, they handled the plates. They never actually saw the plates physically with their eyes in the light of day. Go back and study that, Avatar4321. Go read your Bible on guidance to determine what is true or not. That "burning in your bosom" may very well just be heartburn. But, nonetheless, if LDS'ism works for you and brings you closer to Jesus, go for it.

 

[Skeptik]

Can you do that with metal?

The way the age of a metal artifact is determined is by carefully excavating it and then determining at what level it was buried. The age of the other artifacts, bones, and so on at the same level would then determine the age of the metal artifact.

Were there any other items found with the plates? If any of them still exist, if they were made of any carbon compound, then it would be possible to date the plates. If the plates were found all by themselves, then it would lead a researcher to wonder why that is. Usually, a find is not just one object.

Other objects found with it: Urim and Thumim, The Sword of Laban, and the Liahona. At least I think that's all of them. I dont know that any of them have any carbon to test.

I dont think something intentionally buried would be as easy to date as something that just casually fell to the ground and was eventually lost over time.

That linnen cloth could be tested using today's methods, if it could be found.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why were these gold plates, never made available to be checked for authenticity

Good question. The plates WERE made available to 13 different people, all who swore to holding them.

Although the plates themselves were purposefully hidden from the "professors" of the day, a sample of the charactors found on the plates were submitted to two professors of ancient scholarship who pronounced the charactors to be authentic.

Why weren't the plates themselves presented. There are several reasons why:

1. This was to be a trial of faith. God has always worked this way. He always wants us to excercise faith before he proves anything to us.
2. It was a different time in Joseph's day and far less governed. Many people were trying to steal the plates from Joseph. The would be thieves knew he had them. They were thought to be made of pure gold which would have made them worth a fortune. If they were stolen, they would have been lost forever, probably melted down and traded in for the value.
3. God would not allow this priceless treasure of information to pass into the hands of corrupt men.

After this sparkling analysis by you, the rest of thinking humanity are supposed to take this testimony as believable? Truth and RGS, testimonies are only for the individual, never for cooboration of another's belief. This is America, and I am glad we have the right to believe what we want. Have a blast with it.

Were you trying to say corroborate because cooborate is not a word. If you were trying to say corroborate, the sentence doesn't make sense and I don't know how to reply to you.
Are you trying to say that because I believe Joseph's account that I'm trying to force it on others?
You're way off if that's the case. I'm just telling everyone the truth about "Mormons".

One of our articles of faith states that "We believe in worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men everywhere the same privilege. Let them worship how, where and what they may."

Please, no double talk.

 

[Truthspeaker]

how about the age of them.

The plates could be carbon dated if God decided to make them available again. And he will. We will all get to see them eventually. They would be carbon dated between 2600 and 1700 years old.

Carbon dating would be impossible with metal objects.

Learn something new every day.

 

[Truthspeaker]

No, they handled the plates. They never actually saw the plates physically with their eyes in the light of day. Go back and study that, Avatar4321. Go read your Bible on guidance to determine what is true or not. That "burning in your bosom" may very well just be heartburn. But, nonetheless, if LDS'ism works for you and brings you closer to Jesus, go for it.

The first time Joseph saw the angel Moroni he told us that the light of the room was "brighter than the noonday sun".
The same angel was the deliverer of the plates on the day of this statement.
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

And also this statement:

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

Oh yes it was in broad daylight.

 

[froggy]

The plates could be carbon dated if God decided to make them available again. And he will. We will all get to see them eventually. They would be carbon dated between 2600 and 1700 years old.

Carbon dating would be impossible with metal objects.

Learn something new every day.

So there was no evidence of joe ever having them, other than joe saying he had them, God didn't take back the ten commandments tablets, why would he take those?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Carbon dating would be impossible with metal objects.

Learn something new every day.

So there was no evidence of joe ever having them, other than joe saying he had them, God didn't take back the ten commandments tablets, why would he take those?

Would you like to inform all of us who have been looking for said commandments where they are right now if God didn't take them away?

you are astounding froggy, what'll ya think of next?

 

[froggy]

Learn something new every day.

So there was no evidence of joe ever having them, other than joe saying he had them, God didn't take back the ten commandments tablets, why would he take those?

Would you like to inform all of us who have been looking for said commandments where they are right now if God didn't take them away?

you are astounding froggy, what'll ya think of next?

You mormons didn't fall far from joes tree, Where in the bible did god say, " oh by the way moses i'll need those back"?

 

[Avatar4321]

No, they handled the plates. They never actually saw the plates physically with their eyes in the light of day. Go back and study that, Avatar4321. Go read your Bible on guidance to determine what is true or not. That "burning in your bosom" may very well just be heartburn. But, nonetheless, if LDS'ism works for you and brings you closer to Jesus, go for it.

After the long difficult research of reading what they actually wrote when they stated they saw the plates and were shown the plates and saw the engravings therein. Ive decided you dont know jack.

 

[Avatar4321]

You mormons didn't fall far from joes tree, Where in the bible did god say, " oh by the way moses i'll need those back"?

I hate to break this to you, but there is alot that God has said that didnt make it to the Bible. I know this is a difficult concept for you. But it really shouldnt be. Your own relationship with God is not in the Bible. Does that mean you arent saved? Think about it.

Where are the tablets?

 

[froggy]

You mormons didn't fall far from joes tree, Where in the bible did god say, " oh by the way moses i'll need those back"?

I hate to break this to you, but there is alot that God has said that didnt make it to the Bible. I know this is a difficult concept for you. But it really shouldnt be. Your own relationship with God is not in the Bible. Does that mean you arent saved? Think about it.

Where are the tablets?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw[/ame] this is the way mormons think(imagine joe said and believe it)

 

[Skeptik]

So there was no evidence of joe ever having them, other than joe saying he had them, God didn't take back the ten commandments tablets, why would he take those?

Would you like to inform all of us who have been looking for said commandments where they are right now if God didn't take them away?

you are astounding froggy, what'll ya think of next?

You mormons didn't fall far from joes tree, Where in the bible did god say, " oh by the way moses i'll need those back"?

He didn't did he? So, which Jewish museum has the tablets on display today?

 

[Avatar4321]

You mormons didn't fall far from joes tree, Where in the bible did god say, " oh by the way moses i'll need those back"?

I hate to break this to you, but there is alot that God has said that didnt make it to the Bible. I know this is a difficult concept for you. But it really shouldnt be. Your own relationship with God is not in the Bible. Does that mean you arent saved? Think about it.

Where are the tablets?

this is the way mormons think(imagine joe said and believe it)

I dont really care what you think about the answers. Id just like you to answer the questions

1) Where are the ten commandment tablets? This has nothing to do with Joseph. So you dont really have an excuse.

2) Do you honestly believe everything God has said is in the Bible?

 

[froggy]

I hate to break this to you, but there is alot that God has said that didnt make it to the Bible. I know this is a difficult concept for you. But it really shouldnt be. Your own relationship with God is not in the Bible. Does that mean you arent saved? Think about it.

Where are the tablets?

this is the way mormons think(imagine joe said and believe it)

I dont really care what you think about the answers. Id just like you to answer the questions

1) Where are the ten commandment tablets? This has nothing to do with Joseph. So you dont really have an excuse.

2) Do you honestly believe everything God has said is in the Bible?

Some rich collecters vault i'd imagine.