The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

They need to stop ... it's offensive to us. We don't view it sa them "saving" us. And we don't need to be "saved" by someone else's belief.

As I said, those people were targeted because they were jews. Trying to make them not jews and distort the geneology is wrong.

Again you guys are missing the mark. We are not transforming dead people into members. People who have had a problem with it and have asked us to stop have been respected. We will never get all the names done anyway. that ordinance does not save people by itself. we are not forcing anyone to go into our temple and do this. It is mormons who go in to do it themselves and if you don't believe in it, then you could just call us crazy wackos and ignore it. We don't steal records, we only have them given to us or we will take names that are out in the open and don't need to be stolen.
There is a big misconception that I hope I just cleared up.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Are people allowed to access that genealogy if they simply have an interest?

It is doubtful I will ever be a Latter Day Saint as I have difficulty even thinking of God in the same manner as most Western religions do even though I was raised in a Pentecostal church. But I would love to be able to see if my family were in this book.

And BTW - Buddhists don't care if you baptize them after the body they currently inhabit dies.

Yes you may access your genealogy very simply. I can't remember the website but every congregation has a family history expert who can show you how to do it without proselytizing or pressuring you at all. It shouldn't be hard to google it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I would think any non-Mormon would have been 'targeted' for baptism.

That is true, it is not about picking out Jews.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I will do.

Is the genealogy available online as well?

It's not just in Salt Lake that it's free, I know for sure it is free at any church that has the program set up and definitely at any temple visitors center.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Tell us the truth about the people on the moon.

I know a bunch of it, but I think it will come better from you.

It began, as I understand it, in a magazine article, in fact an LDS magazine entitled "The Young Woman's Journal," wherein there was an assertion that the Prophet told somebody that they would preach to the inhabitants of the moon.

I honestly have never heard of such an article. I don't know what to say.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It bugs you, nonetheless. Why is that?

GayMormon - Directory of Information on Homosexuality and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon)

It doesn't really bug me or surprise me, it just shows how uneducated they are about their professed religion. There are no teachings in our church to support their actions. That is why I say they don't know what they are talking about. They say they want reform in the church, but they don't understand the church doesn't reform and never has. It's policies are always revealed to the Prophet, not a vote of the people.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Your assertion is that whatever YOU believe is paramount and whatever other paths human beings follow is 'lesser' somehow.

You baptize the deceased whether they would have accepted the gospel or not.

Where is it you think the dead are when they are being 'baptized'?

Now there is an intelligent question about doctrine. I applaud you for this

Now you have put yourself in a position for me to inform you about our teachings.
Yes I do believe that our teachings are true. I don't have a problem with someone else claiming their beliefs are true, that is their right to freedom of religion. I will fight for others freedoms too and so will all of us. But just because I feel my churches teachings are correct does not mean that I am trying to put down others. I am sorry and apologize if I gave that impression. It was not my intent. But you ask a wonderful question as to the whereabouts of spirits when they pass on.
The body separates from the spirit but continues on in an existence right here among us in an unseen world not unlike the society we live in. People live their lives the way they want to, associate with influences they normally would while here. They maintain their personality traits and weakness and strengths. The same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there. The one guarantee is that eventually before the final judgment everyone whether in the spirit world or during the 1000 year period following Christs return where everyone will get their bodies back, everyone will get a chance to hear the full uninterrupted gospel and accept or reject it for themselves.

 

[no1tovote4]

You can do your own research on that, but only because of my covenants I will not talk about such details. What I will say is that it is not important to the discussion. There are rituals and and performances that go on in the temple to remind us to keep a steadfast faith in Christ and keep his commandments.
And before you ask, there is no nudity.

I never suspected there was any nudity involved. (BTW there is no nudity involved in any Freemasons Degree work).

I just wondered whether there were as many similarities as suggested. However such research is hampered by either apologists or theorists, actual knowledge is hard to come by, and if found may be unrecognized.

 

[no1tovote4]

I like that you have a sense of humor.

Well thanks.

 

[no1tovote4]

I honestly have never heard of such an article. I don't know what to say.

Really? Awesome! I came up with a question you haven't heard...

Well, I'll help to dispel that one as it is one that I hear to disparage LDS pretty consistently.

Here is the wording of the article I spoke of earlier in the thread:

"Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet. As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do - that they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years. He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style. In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and - to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes. The first two promises have been fulfilled, and the latter may be verified. From the verification of two promises we may reasonably expect the third to be fulfilled also." … "The inspiration of God caused men to hunt for a new continent until Columbus discovered it. Men have lost millions of dollars and hundreds of lives to find a country beyond the north pole; and they will yet find that country - a warm, fruitful country, inhabited by the ten tribes of Israel, a country divided by a river, on one side of which lives the half tribe of Manasseh, which is more numerous than all the others. So said the Prophet.” (quoted in THE INHABITANTS OF THE MOON, O. B. Huntington” The Young Woman's Journal, vol. 3, pages 263, 264.).

Now there are several things inconsistent here with maintaining that it was his "prophecy". It may seem strange to us now, but back at that time it was a common belief that the moon and the sun may be inhabited and speak as such in regular conversation, however in this case it is hearsay of a prophesy that we are getting.

I did a bit of research, because I tend to like to know about things like that when people start in on it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

This site has been created to provide a forum for gay men, lesbians and their families and friends to share their stories. The common denominator is Mormonism with the hope that those who are journeying therein will feel less alone after reading these stories.



At best, the Mormon Church has provided a less than hospitable environment for its gay and lesbian members, leaving most of us to find our own way out of the confusion, condemnation and guilt. It can be a pretty lonely road and sometimes just knowing that somebody else is going through the same things we are helps make the journey a little easier.



Rather than going to battle with the Mormon Church over its beliefs and practices, this site focuses on the first-person narratives of those who are impacted by it all. Sometimes we get so caught up in the doctrine that we forget the human toll involved in a one-size-fits-all plan. Hopefully these stories will help put a more human face on the complex issues of religion and sexuality and generate a greater feeling of tolerance and understanding.
Gay Mormon Stories - Family & Friends

I and we as a church have never taught hate toward homosexuals. They have been invited over and over to our meetings. We understand that people are tempted with things that not everyone is tempted with. We invite all to come to Christ and seek a personal relationship with him. We believe that those who truly do, eventually will be free of all temptations, whatever the sin may be. We don't act like any sin is more wrong than another, they are all equally wrong in the sight of God. Please don't misunderstand our intolerance for sin as an intolerance of you.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I never suspected there was any nudity involved. (BTW there is no nudity involved in any Freemasons Degree work).

I just wondered whether there were as many similarities as suggested. However such research is hampered by either apologists or theorists, actual knowledge is hard to come by, and if found may be unrecognized.

I will not apologize. I do have the knowledge and so wish to give it to you. The masons are not far off I will say but there are a lot of similarities. A lot of people assume we have some whacked out practices in the temple but not so. They are very mild mannered and conservative and a reverence for deity permeates the very quiet atmosphere. It is very pleasant and peaceful to be there.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Really? Awesome! I came up with a question you haven't heard...

Well, I'll help to dispel that one as it is one that I hear to disparage LDS pretty consistently.

Here is the wording of the article I spoke of earlier in the thread:



Now there are several things inconsistent here with maintaining that it was his "prophecy". It may seem strange to us now, but back at that time it was a common belief that the moon and the sun may be inhabited and speak as such in regular conversation, however in this case it is hearsay of a prophesy that we are getting.

I did a bit of research, because I tend to like to know about things like that when people start in on it.

I am glad you brought this up because I need to clarify a couple of things.
1. The Young woman's Journal was put together as a compilation of writings on many individual journal entries.
2. The Journal is not put forth as official doctrine, but rather a record of people's personal experiences.
3. It is clear to me that this young woman was filled with some pretty wild delusions of grandeur as a result of a gross misinterpretation of the Prophet's word. I don't know what she heard to make her think that but it is not out of the question for young people to interpret things they want to hear from something said that means something entirely different. To me and other church historians it is dismissed as false doctrine. Especially since members are told explicitly not to discuss their private patriarchal blessings. If something amazing is promised in these blessings, then they are so sacred that they should only be pondered in your own mind and if they come true, others will see the proof of it by what you do, not what you fantasize about and broadcast to everyone.
I hope that helps.
By the way Joseph Smith was shown the cosmos in visions and he wouldn't be so ignorant as to tell a young person in 1837 that they were going to preach on the moon.
The lost tribes of Israel were to remain lost until the time the Lord decided to reveal them. I don't doubt that Joseph may have been shown where they were but he wouldn't discuss them with a youth having been told not to reveal it from God.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I think it's possible truthspeaker, that you are missing many posters points.

Exactly which points would I be missing? I have been pretty much on the ball here as far as responding to everyone.

 

[sky dancer]

Now there is an intelligent question about doctrine. I applaud you for this

Now you have put yourself in a position for me to inform you about our teachings.
Yes I do believe that our teachings are true. I don't have a problem with someone else claiming their beliefs are true, that is their right to freedom of religion. I will fight for others freedoms too and so will all of us. But just because I feel my churches teachings are correct does not mean that I am trying to put down others. I am sorry and apologize if I gave that impression. It was not my intent. But you ask a wonderful question as to the whereabouts of spirits when they pass on.
The body separates from the spirit but continues on in an existence right here among us in an unseen world not unlike the society we live in. People live their lives the way they want to, associate with influences they normally would while here. They maintain their personality traits and weakness and strengths. The same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there. The one guarantee is that eventually before the final judgment everyone whether in the spirit world or during the 1000 year period following Christs return where everyone will get their bodies back, everyone will get a chance to hear the full uninterrupted gospel and accept or reject it for themselves.

Thank you for teaching me about your doctrine. Do you have any interest in learning about other religions?

There are differences naturally in how Buddhists concieve of the bardo--the intermediate state after death and before the next lifetime.

You say that in your tradtion the personality continues into the next life. That is different from how we see things in Buddhism.

We don't view the body as permanent--or something we would choose to come back to. Who wants to re-enter a corpse?

Likewise, we don't see the personality as continuing. We do think that within a continuity of consciousness; karmic imprints, habits and qualities do pass from lifetime to lifetime.

 

[chloe]

sky here is a link to helping LDS Homosexuals

Evergreen International-Helping Latter-Day Saints overcome same-sex attraction (homosexuality)

 

[chloe]

Truth will you explain, "celestial marriage" and whether a man can have more then one wife sealed to him.

 

[sky dancer]

sky here is a link to helping LDS Homosexuals

Evergreen International-Helping Latter-Day Saints overcome same-sex attraction (homosexuality)

No offense, chloe. IMO 'helping' LDS with homosexuality would be helping them love and accept themselves as they are, NOT 'helping' overcome the same-sex attraction. It's like trying to 'help' a left handed person become right handed. It's possible, but why bother? It's as natural for a left handed person to use their left hand dominantly as it is for a right handed person to use their right hand.

Clearly, LDS does not love and accept gays and lesbians. Church doctine interferes. A person's identity is not sinful. Loving is not sinful.

What I will say about my personal experience with Mormons, is that over the years, I have had the most interesting discussions about spirituality with LDS members. I find them generally well- educated, kind, sincere and passionate adherents of their faith. I enjoy engaging with them in indepth discussions about issues of ethics. There are even places where LDS and Buddhist beliefs dove tail.

I am happy to call Mormons my friends. I am deeply aggrieved by the political actions of the LDS church in financing Proposition 8. It hurts me to see them impose their LDS morality on civil marriage equality laws. IMO, as an institution, LDS is disrespectful of other spiritual traditions who do not find homosexual and lesbian unions sinful, and it also implies that non-religious citizens who marry must accept their definition of marriage.

Frankly, if they want to promote marriage law that the rest of US citizenry can accept, they ought to clean up their own act, and get rid of plural marriage and child sexual exploitation and leave queerfolk alone to live in peace.

 

[strollingbones]

oddly enough it does seem all the answers to the negative part of lds is answered with the same answer..they are misguided etc

 

[Truthspeaker]

Thank you for teaching me about your doctrine. Do you have any interest in learning about other religions?

There are differences naturally in how Buddhists concieve of the bardo--the intermediate state after death and before the next lifetime.

You say that in your tradtion the personality continues into the next life. That is different from how we see things in Buddhism.

We don't view the body as permanent--or something we would choose to come back to. Who wants to re-enter a corpse?

Likewise, we don't see the personality as continuing. We do think that within a continuity of consciousness; karmic imprints, habits and qualities do pass from lifetime to lifetime.

Interesting teaching, to be sure, though of course I would be skeptical. You made me laugh when you said who wants to re-enter a corpse?
When I talk of people being ressurected with their same bodies, I am not talking about Night of the Living Dead! That would be really gross.
We believe that your body will still look like you, but whatever imperfections it has will be restored to it's perfect frame never to perish. We will all be beautiful, glorious looking and fully functional humans.