The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Spoonman]

God created the universe. We'd be pretty remiss to think he had nothing to do with forming a nation

what god?

uhm, the only god

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I'm sorry...but does that change that the Original Treaty of Tripoli WAS unanimously approved by the Senate and signed by John Adams?

Yes

Really....with a different President, under different circumstances, after a different war, with different conditions.....9 year later.

Show me were the 1806 treaty cancels out Article 11 of the 1797 treaty.

Why? You would just deny it.

 

[bodecea]

God created the universe. We'd be pretty remiss to think he had nothing to do with forming a nation

what god?

uhm, the only god

Says who?

 

[Spoonman]

what god?

uhm, the only god

Says who?

God, who else

 

[peach174]

uhm, the only god

Says who?

God, who else

Bod doesn't believe in the one and only God Spoonman.

 

[AllieBaba]

It doesn't matter. She's just bloviating anyway.

It doesn't matter what God she believes in. It matters what the intent of the FF was, and it was to found a country on Christian principle. That's what they said in private, in public, and in founding documents such as the Declaration.

 

[bodecea]

Yes

Really....with a different President, under different circumstances, after a different war, with different conditions.....9 year later.

Show me were the 1806 treaty cancels out Article 11 of the 1797 treaty.

Why? You would just deny it.

Explain to me, L_L how two treaties, 9 years apart, 2 different presidents, a war in between is really the same treaty.

 

[AllieBaba]

"

Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

 

[bodecea]

Says who?

God, who else

Bod doesn't believe in the one and only God Spoonman.

And does that make me in some way.....less?

 

[bodecea]

"

Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

Honey....Patrick Henry did not ratify the Constitution. He hated it and fought against it as a leader of the Anti-Federalists. You will have to do better than that.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're an ignorant liar, Bod.
And as you know, the Supreme Court DID state that we were founded upon Christian principle.

"Political science professors at the University of Houston collected 15,000 writings from the founding era, isolating 3,154 direct quotes made by the Founding Fathers.

Thirty-four percent of the quotes came directly from the Bible! Other sources were French philosopher Baron Charles de Montesquieu, 8.3 percent; Sir William Blackstone (18th-century English judge, author, professor and lecturer of law at Oxford University), 7.9 percent; and John Locke, 2.9 percent.

Paschal says the Constitution does not acknowledge our peoples' dependence on God or their past.

Here are some quotes from our Founding Fathers, who wrote the Constitution. Benjamin Franklin:


“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: That God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?” (June 28, 1787, at the Constitutional Convention)

“Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature.”

“A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.”
George Washington:


“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is impossible to govern rightly without God and the Bible.”
John Adams:


“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
James Madison:


“We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”
Thomas Jefferson:


“No nation has ever existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be.

“The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man, and I, as Chief Magistrate of this nation, am bound to give it the sanction of my example.”

In 1800, Congress approved the use of the Capitol as a church building for Christian worship services. As president, Jefferson attended these services and employed the military band to play for them, at taxpayer expense.

Author Jerry Newcombe says, “Without exception, the constitutions of all 50 states refer to the Almighty God of the universe, the Author and Sustainer of our liberty.” Almost every Ivy League school was established primarily to train ministers of the gospel. Harvard College's first presidents insisted that there could be no true knowledge or wisdom without Jesus Christ.

In 1892, the Supreme Court stated, “Our lives and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian. This is a religious people. This is a Christian nation." (Holy Trinity Church vs. U.S.)

There are thousands of sources that refute Paschal's statements, including books and articles by Bill Federer, Jerry Newcombe, David Gibbs Jr., David Barton and Gary DeMar.

I do agree with Paschal's statement that America is becoming more secular, but this is to our shame.

President John Quincy Adams said, “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: that it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of Christianity with the principles of civil government.”

America's founding was, indeed, based on Judeo-Christian principles | The News-Sentinel - Fort Wayne IN

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Really....with a different President, under different circumstances, after a different war, with different conditions.....9 year later.

Show me were the 1806 treaty cancels out Article 11 of the 1797 treaty.

Why? You would just deny it.

Explain to me, L_L how two treaties, 9 years apart, 2 different presidents, a war in between is really the same treaty.

I will after you explain to me why you dismiss every piece of documentation including the DOI, every states Constitution and the reams of writings from our founding fathers that specifically mentions God and Christian principles. The only document you have is a ONE treaty. So that ONE treaty nullifies ALL the rest of the historical documents and text?


Face it, you've had your ass handed to you many times but you are just too fucking stupid to realize it.

 

[peach174]

God, who else

Bod doesn't believe in the one and only God Spoonman.

And does that make me in some way.....less?

No, not one bit. I was just explaining it to spoonman

 

[Foxfyre]

It is true that Patrick Henry opposed the Constitution as presented for ratification because he thought it would create too strong a central government. As an anti-Federalist he was much more a libertarian/Classical Liberal than even those who approved the Constitution. And he refused elective public office on the same principle.

He WAS instrumental in the adoption of the Bill of Rights, however, and we can thank him and others like him for attention to protecting unalienable rights to a greater degree than the initial Framers.

And he was absolutely 100% convinced that the nation was founded on Christian principles and the Constitution as framed supported that concept.

 

[bodecea]

Why? You would just deny it.

Explain to me, L_L how two treaties, 9 years apart, 2 different presidents, a war in between is really the same treaty.

I will after you explain to me why you dismiss every piece of documentation including the DOI, every states Constitution and the reams of writings from our founding fathers that specifically mentions God and Christian principles. The only document you have is a ONE treaty. So that ONE treaty nullifies ALL the rest of the historical documents and text?


Face it, you've had your ass handed to you many times but you are just too fucking stupid to realize it.

I don't dismiss the DoI...it helps prove my point.

I don't dismiss state constitutions....I'm just aware that the federal constitution trumps them every time.

I don't dismiss the WRITINGS and SPEAKINGS of Founding Fathers. I just recognise that ACTIONS speak louder than words.....they talk of God and Christianity.....WHERE is it in our Constitution, our laws, our Supreme Court cases.....

And....what ARE those Christian tenets (clearly and definitely CHRISTIAN) that our country is founded on? Where oh where is that list?

 

[bodecea]

It is true that Patrick Henry opposed the Constitution as presented for ratification because he thought it would create too strong a central government. As an anti-Federalist he was much more a libertarian/Classical Liberal than even those who approved the Constitution. And he refused elective public office on the same principle.

He WAS instrumental in the adoption of the Bill of Rights, however, and we can thank him and others like him for attention to protecting unalienable rights to a greater degree than the initial Framers.

And he was absolutely 100% convinced that the nation was founded on Christian principles and the Constitution as framed supported that concept.

And since he was so firm in that belief and had a hand in the adoption of the Bill of Rights, where is that mention of Christian tenets in our laws?

 

[Foxfyre]

Don't bother answering Lonestar. The rest of us have answered that same question so many times in this thread I've lost count. I think he or she doesn't want an answer. I think he or she is engaging in the sport of seeing how many times s/he can make the idiots answer it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Don't bother answering Lonestar. The rest of us have answered that same question so many times in this thread I've lost count. I think he or she doesn't want an answer. I think he or she is engaging in the sport of seeing how many times s/he can make the idiots answer it.

Some people just choose to remain ignorant.

 

[bodecea]

Don't bother answering Lonestar. The rest of us have answered that same question so many times in this thread I've lost count. I think he or she doesn't want an answer. I think he or she is engaging in the sport of seeing how many times s/he can make the idiots answer it.

Some people just choose to remain ignorant.

That is true....our Founders introduce one of the most wonderful and wise innovations to the world...running 180 degrees from the baggage of European governments and some people here use faulty facts and half truths to deny the greatness of what they did.

The good news is, we remain a secular country welcoming all who wish to join us as long as they follow our secular laws....and that we can THANK our Founders for.

 

[AllieBaba]

Uh...wrong again.