Top 8% Own 85%

[Andylusion]

With the exception of government, unions are a thing of the past. They aren't coming back either.

A company has every right to operate where they desire. That's something you can't stop. It's the nature of the business and has been going on the last few decades.

If you have any undisputed evidence of businesses "colluding" they are so few and far between that it wouldn't put a dent in our economy.

If we want to be great again we need strong unions.

Every company needs to do business in the US. We need to take advantage of that fact and make sure they are created well paying jobs here if they want to be in the biggest economy in the world.

I have given several examples of big companies colluding. Most companies don't get caught, but it is happening.

We need to get rid of non competes. They are anti worker and anti capitalism.

If the people don't want unions, and the workers don't want unions, and the companies don't want unions, why should we have unions?

So you force unions on companies. Then they move overseas or to a Right to Work state and all those employees are out of a job. It's better to have a job that pays less than you'd like than to have no job at all, don't you think?

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

 

[Brain357]

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Well if they want to be union again, don't you think that's their decision and not yours?

My employer told all of us that if we ever unionized, he would close down the business and reopen under a new business name.

You on the left have to understand the Action/Reaction process. If you take a negative action against somebody, you will likely receive a negative reaction.

The reason people don't want unions any longer is because they are the main culprit of job loss in America. We've learned from our mistakes. Yes, it was a gravy train ride for quite a while, but that ride is over. It's time to face reality.

The American consumer will not support good paying monkey jobs. Even McDonald's ordered thousands of kiosks to replace order takers. It won't be long before they automate their food preparation as well.

More and more grocery stores are adding self-serve checkouts. It won't be long until they are all self-serve. Grocery stores at one time had a very strong union and people did monkey jobs and made great money.

What we are quickly learning is that without them wages are stagnant. As that becomes more and more clear they will be back. Sounds like the typical employer scare tactic. Funny stuff.

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

 

[Brain357]

If we want to be great again we need strong unions.

Every company needs to do business in the US. We need to take advantage of that fact and make sure they are created well paying jobs here if they want to be in the biggest economy in the world.

I have given several examples of big companies colluding. Most companies don't get caught, but it is happening.

We need to get rid of non competes. They are anti worker and anti capitalism.

If the people don't want unions, and the workers don't want unions, and the companies don't want unions, why should we have unions?

So you force unions on companies. Then they move overseas or to a Right to Work state and all those employees are out of a job. It's better to have a job that pays less than you'd like than to have no job at all, don't you think?

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If the people don't want unions, and the workers don't want unions, and the companies don't want unions, why should we have unions?

So you force unions on companies. Then they move overseas or to a Right to Work state and all those employees are out of a job. It's better to have a job that pays less than you'd like than to have no job at all, don't you think?

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

Yet Hostess is doing just fine after they got bought out and is now non-union. In fact, I just purchased a few boxes of their products today!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well if they want to be union again, don't you think that's their decision and not yours?

My employer told all of us that if we ever unionized, he would close down the business and reopen under a new business name.

You on the left have to understand the Action/Reaction process. If you take a negative action against somebody, you will likely receive a negative reaction.

The reason people don't want unions any longer is because they are the main culprit of job loss in America. We've learned from our mistakes. Yes, it was a gravy train ride for quite a while, but that ride is over. It's time to face reality.

The American consumer will not support good paying monkey jobs. Even McDonald's ordered thousands of kiosks to replace order takers. It won't be long before they automate their food preparation as well.

More and more grocery stores are adding self-serve checkouts. It won't be long until they are all self-serve. Grocery stores at one time had a very strong union and people did monkey jobs and made great money.

What we are quickly learning is that without them wages are stagnant. As that becomes more and more clear they will be back. Sounds like the typical employer scare tactic. Funny stuff.

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

 

[Brain357]

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

Yet Hostess is doing just fine after they got bought out and is now non-union. In fact, I just purchased a few boxes of their products today!

Yes I'm sure they have a great future.

 

[Brain357]

What we are quickly learning is that without them wages are stagnant. As that becomes more and more clear they will be back. Sounds like the typical employer scare tactic. Funny stuff.

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

Yet Hostess is doing just fine after they got bought out and is now non-union. In fact, I just purchased a few boxes of their products today!

Yes I'm sure they have a great future.

They've been doing fine the last couple of years. Can't say that when they were union and closed up.

 

[Brain357]

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

If that were the case we wouldn't have such a slow economy.

 

[Andylusion]

Well if they want to be union again, don't you think that's their decision and not yours?

My employer told all of us that if we ever unionized, he would close down the business and reopen under a new business name.

You on the left have to understand the Action/Reaction process. If you take a negative action against somebody, you will likely receive a negative reaction.

The reason people don't want unions any longer is because they are the main culprit of job loss in America. We've learned from our mistakes. Yes, it was a gravy train ride for quite a while, but that ride is over. It's time to face reality.

The American consumer will not support good paying monkey jobs. Even McDonald's ordered thousands of kiosks to replace order takers. It won't be long before they automate their food preparation as well.

More and more grocery stores are adding self-serve checkouts. It won't be long until they are all self-serve. Grocery stores at one time had a very strong union and people did monkey jobs and made great money.

What we are quickly learning is that without them wages are stagnant. As that becomes more and more clear they will be back. Sounds like the typical employer scare tactic. Funny stuff.

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

You can't give enough tax incentives to change this. If I'm losing money on a factory, what tax incentive are you going to give me to keep that factory open? You realize that if I am taking a loss, that cutting my taxes for zero, to zero, isn't an incentive?

France attempted that with the Goodyear Tire plant. It failed. They closed the plant. Tax incentives only work when you have multiple good choices. If I can be massively profitable in both Ohio and Kentucky, but Ohio offers better incentives, then I'll go there. But If I can't be profitable in Ohio, no amount of incentives is going to make me move to Ohio.

Moreover, incentives only delay the problem. I wish I could remember what company it was. It was a bank, but I can't remember which bank did this. They built their HQ in Columbus, with a massive 10 year tax abatement. Then after the abatement ran out, they moved their HQ to Hilliard (suburb), with a new tax abatement. But then 10 years later, they moved to Dublin, with a new 10 year tax abatement, where they are now. Obviously it wasn't a mega bank like Bank of America or something, but it was a large multi-state bank.

The incentives works for as long as the incentive lasts. You might delay the jobs leaving the US, for a few years, but ultimately if the economic reality is that the over all incentive is to move jobs over seas.... then that's what's going to happen.

And worse, the people on the left-wing of American politics will scream and yell about it the entire time, and work to remove the incentives you want to put in place. General Electric is the poster child for this. They, as a corporate strategy, work to get as many tax incentives as possible. That's why people are constantly screaming about them paying low tax.

So while you are right now promoting "tax incentives" to keep jobs in the US, the moment you pass those tax incentives and corporations start taking advantage of them, you'll be screaming that corporations don't pay enough tax! I've seen people on this forum do that EXACTLY. One thread they are claiming we need tax incentives for X, and in the very next forum thread, screaming non-stop about how corporations avoid taxes.

The solution is simply to lower the tax rates, lower the regulations, and cut mandates and fees. Make it more profitable to operate in the US.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

If that were the case we wouldn't have such a slow economy.

We have a slow economy because of the uncertainty of our finances. We also have a slow economy because people would rather sit on welfare than go to work; welfare programs pay too well, but certainly not enough for people to have a lot of extra money to spend.

93 million Americans of working age not working or looking for a job. 45 million Americans being fed by other taxpayers. HTF can anybody get an economy going like this? Add to that the foreigners that come here and keep our wages down, you have all the ingredients to have stagnant wages.

 

[Brain357]

What we are quickly learning is that without them wages are stagnant. As that becomes more and more clear they will be back. Sounds like the typical employer scare tactic. Funny stuff.

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

You can't give enough tax incentives to change this. If I'm losing money on a factory, what tax incentive are you going to give me to keep that factory open? You realize that if I am taking a loss, that cutting my taxes for zero, to zero, isn't an incentive?

France attempted that with the Goodyear Tire plant. It failed. They closed the plant. Tax incentives only work when you have multiple good choices. If I can be massively profitable in both Ohio and Kentucky, but Ohio offers better incentives, then I'll go there. But If I can't be profitable in Ohio, no amount of incentives is going to make me move to Ohio.

Moreover, incentives only delay the problem. I wish I could remember what company it was. It was a bank, but I can't remember which bank did this. They built their HQ in Columbus, with a massive 10 year tax abatement. Then after the abatement ran out, they moved their HQ to Hilliard (suburb), with a new tax abatement. But then 10 years later, they moved to Dublin, with a new 10 year tax abatement, where they are now. Obviously it wasn't a mega bank like Bank of America or something, but it was a large multi-state bank.

The incentives works for as long as the incentive lasts. You might delay the jobs leaving the US, for a few years, but ultimately if the economic reality is that the over all incentive is to move jobs over seas.... then that's what's going to happen.

And worse, the people on the left-wing of American politics will scream and yell about it the entire time, and work to remove the incentives you want to put in place. General Electric is the poster child for this. They, as a corporate strategy, work to get as many tax incentives as possible. That's why people are constantly screaming about them paying low tax.

So while you are right now promoting "tax incentives" to keep jobs in the US, the moment you pass those tax incentives and corporations start taking advantage of them, you'll be screaming that corporations don't pay enough tax! I've seen people on this forum do that EXACTLY. One thread they are claiming we need tax incentives for X, and in the very next forum thread, screaming non-stop about how corporations avoid taxes.

The solution is simply to lower the tax rates, lower the regulations, and cut mandates and fees. Make it more profitable to operate in the US.

Sorry but it is immensely profitable to do business in the US. Lower tax rates? Most companies pay very little now. We have had strong economies with our current corporate tax rates. What industry will lower regulations help?

 

[Brain357]

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

If that were the case we wouldn't have such a slow economy.

We have a slow economy because of the uncertainty of our finances. We also have a slow economy because people would rather sit on welfare than go to work; welfare programs pay too well, but certainly not enough for people to have a lot of extra money to spend.

93 million Americans of working age not working or looking for a job. 45 million Americans being fed by other taxpayers. HTF can anybody get an economy going like this? Add to that the foreigners that come here and keep our wages down, you have all the ingredients to have stagnant wages.

There aren't lots of great jobs out there waiting to be filled.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tax incentives don't mean crap compared to having investors.

The more you pay workers, the less the company financial growth. The less growth, the less investors, the less investors, the less the company can expand and create new jobs.

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

If that were the case we wouldn't have such a slow economy.

We have a slow economy because of the uncertainty of our finances. We also have a slow economy because people would rather sit on welfare than go to work; welfare programs pay too well, but certainly not enough for people to have a lot of extra money to spend.

93 million Americans of working age not working or looking for a job. 45 million Americans being fed by other taxpayers. HTF can anybody get an economy going like this? Add to that the foreigners that come here and keep our wages down, you have all the ingredients to have stagnant wages.

There aren't lots of great jobs out there waiting to be filled.

You don't need a great job, you need an average or good job.

My industry needs 60,000 new workers they can't find. That's why they are turning to foreigners. You can't get Americans to stay off of drugs long enough to pass a drug test nor pay enough to get them off of social programs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the people don't want unions, and the workers don't want unions, and the companies don't want unions, why should we have unions?

So you force unions on companies. Then they move overseas or to a Right to Work state and all those employees are out of a job. It's better to have a job that pays less than you'd like than to have no job at all, don't you think?

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

United’s ESOP fable

When the unions own the means of production, all will be well.

 

[Andylusion]

If the people don't want unions, and the workers don't want unions, and the companies don't want unions, why should we have unions?

So you force unions on companies. Then they move overseas or to a Right to Work state and all those employees are out of a job. It's better to have a job that pays less than you'd like than to have no job at all, don't you think?

People have been lied to about unions. They were told the good workers would make more and blah blah blah. Well they all just make less. They will want to be union again.

Yes. More unions would be great!
How did the unions do when they ran United Airlines?
It must have been wicked awesome. Right?

Ran united airlines? Why would unions run a company? They help workers get better pay an benefits, not run companies.

LOL...........

Let me explain something to you.... Business at the basic fundamental level is very very simple.... It's price of goods/service minus the cost of producing the goods/service.

Everything else... is basically all details. It's price minus cost equals profit. Zero profit, and you close. Small profit and you basically are waiting to close. Large profit and you expand and grow, and produce better goods/services.

Unions take over 50% of the business equation. And the other 50%? The price? The company has absolutely no control over the price. None whatsoever.

Controlling the cost is the biggest aspect of the business, and when Union take over that, and demand highers costs of production... that's why GM and Chrysler and Hostess, and un-countable others have all gone bankrupt.

GM and Chrysler went bankrupt because the management had them building cars nobody wanted. Hostess? Not exactly a healthy choice.

This is another one of those bonkers things people say, that doesn't fit with reality.

"cars nobody wanted"

Really? Nobody wanted them? Really? You can prove that?

So throughout the entire recession, from 2007 to 2010, GM had the largest chuck of US market share. More than any other manufacturer in the US.

In other words, they were selling more of the "cars nobody wanted" than any other car maker in the US, apparently to customers who didn't want them.

BS. No, the problem wasn't that people didn't want their cars. The problem was Unions.

 

[Brain357]

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

If that were the case we wouldn't have such a slow economy.

We have a slow economy because of the uncertainty of our finances. We also have a slow economy because people would rather sit on welfare than go to work; welfare programs pay too well, but certainly not enough for people to have a lot of extra money to spend.

93 million Americans of working age not working or looking for a job. 45 million Americans being fed by other taxpayers. HTF can anybody get an economy going like this? Add to that the foreigners that come here and keep our wages down, you have all the ingredients to have stagnant wages.

There aren't lots of great jobs out there waiting to be filled.

You don't need a great job, you need an average or good job.

My industry needs 60,000 new workers they can't find. That's why they are turning to foreigners. You can't get Americans to stay off of drugs long enough to pass a drug test nor pay enough to get them off of social programs.

Your industry isn't exactly a real attractive job for most.

 

[Indeependent]

The less you pay and customers don't have any money. That is pretty bad for growth.

Plenty of customers have money. We have more millionaires and billionaires in this country than we ever had. We make a new millionaire nearly every day.

I want to buy a widget, so I go to your widget store. You want $150.00 for your widgets. Okay, not bad, but I can go online and get the same widget for $110.00 Where is the decision here?

If that were the case we wouldn't have such a slow economy.

We have a slow economy because of the uncertainty of our finances. We also have a slow economy because people would rather sit on welfare than go to work; welfare programs pay too well, but certainly not enough for people to have a lot of extra money to spend.

93 million Americans of working age not working or looking for a job. 45 million Americans being fed by other taxpayers. HTF can anybody get an economy going like this? Add to that the foreigners that come here and keep our wages down, you have all the ingredients to have stagnant wages.

There aren't lots of great jobs out there waiting to be filled.

You don't need a great job, you need an average or good job.

My industry needs 60,000 new workers they can't find. That's why they are turning to foreigners. You can't get Americans to stay off of drugs long enough to pass a drug test nor pay enough to get them off of social programs.

What is it about South Dakota that turns people to alcohol?

 

[Andylusion]

Get rid of immigration and Visa's and you will see wages increase eventually.

If an employer can't get somebody to clean the company toilets for $10.00 an hour, he has no choice but to offer $10.50. If he still can't find anybody, he has to offer $11.00 and it goes on and on until he finds such an employee.

Right now, if he's offering $9.50 an hour, and can't find an American, he will wait for a foreigner who will clean toilets for $9.50 and get one. That's the main problem here.

It will help, but it isn't the whole story. We still have all the collusion and shipping jobs away. We need to do more to stop that also.

Then we need to turn to Communism or a Dictatorship if we want to force companies to stay here. Maybe tell them execution is the penalty.

We don't force anybody to do anything in a free country; of course, that excludes DumBama since he is now forcing Americans to have healthcare insurance. But other than that, we don't operate that way.

There are many laws we are forced to obey.

We don't force, we give tax incentives to do the right things.

You can't give enough tax incentives to change this. If I'm losing money on a factory, what tax incentive are you going to give me to keep that factory open? You realize that if I am taking a loss, that cutting my taxes for zero, to zero, isn't an incentive?

France attempted that with the Goodyear Tire plant. It failed. They closed the plant. Tax incentives only work when you have multiple good choices. If I can be massively profitable in both Ohio and Kentucky, but Ohio offers better incentives, then I'll go there. But If I can't be profitable in Ohio, no amount of incentives is going to make me move to Ohio.

Moreover, incentives only delay the problem. I wish I could remember what company it was. It was a bank, but I can't remember which bank did this. They built their HQ in Columbus, with a massive 10 year tax abatement. Then after the abatement ran out, they moved their HQ to Hilliard (suburb), with a new tax abatement. But then 10 years later, they moved to Dublin, with a new 10 year tax abatement, where they are now. Obviously it wasn't a mega bank like Bank of America or something, but it was a large multi-state bank.

The incentives works for as long as the incentive lasts. You might delay the jobs leaving the US, for a few years, but ultimately if the economic reality is that the over all incentive is to move jobs over seas.... then that's what's going to happen.

And worse, the people on the left-wing of American politics will scream and yell about it the entire time, and work to remove the incentives you want to put in place. General Electric is the poster child for this. They, as a corporate strategy, work to get as many tax incentives as possible. That's why people are constantly screaming about them paying low tax.

So while you are right now promoting "tax incentives" to keep jobs in the US, the moment you pass those tax incentives and corporations start taking advantage of them, you'll be screaming that corporations don't pay enough tax! I've seen people on this forum do that EXACTLY. One thread they are claiming we need tax incentives for X, and in the very next forum thread, screaming non-stop about how corporations avoid taxes.

The solution is simply to lower the tax rates, lower the regulations, and cut mandates and fees. Make it more profitable to operate in the US.

Sorry but it is immensely profitable to do business in the US. Lower tax rates? Most companies pay very little now. We have had strong economies with our current corporate tax rates. What industry will lower regulations help?

Every industry. If they pay very little now, how would a tax incentive help?

Honestly, I don't know what you are talking about. I've worked with, and talked with CEOs of businesses for the last decade. Never met one, not one, that said they pay very little in tax.

IF that was true, then why the heck would anyone anywhere, be pushing to lower the tax? Let's make this personal for a second. I personally have pushed for lowering my tax rate. Why would I do this, if I was paying zero tax? If I looked at my pay stub, and it said "zero tax". on it, why would I ever complain about the tax rate? It's because 1/4 of my check in gone. That's why I complain. And companies are no different. I highly doubt I would ever hear of a business person complaining about the tax rate, if they never paid massive tax.

Moreover, when people actually survey these business people, they say taxes is a problem. Why would they say that, if you are right, and they never pay tax? (or pay very little now).

You say it is immensely profitable, but the fact jobs are leaving suggests you are wrong. My own company outsourced to China. Why? Because it was not profitable to do it in the US anymore. That's why they did it. I asked. The CEO told me. They laid it all out, and the deal was, it was not profitable to do the product in the US. So the product is built in China. There you go. No amount of tax incentive would make us build that product here. None.