Torture is wrong and unAmerican, nothing but neo-con filth

[HereWeGoAgain]

So what I'm gathering is that the whole pro-torture argument is based on ... "but we're afraid ..."

Compelling argument, huh?

Those who have died to protect our ideals and principles were surely afraid too. But the difference is THEY had the courage to stand up for something.

If George Washington could defeat the most powerful military force of the day with a bunch of shopkeepers and farmers WITHOUT torture, what makes you think the United States of America can't handle these idiots without it? What a slap in the face to ALL Those - living and dead - who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces

Yes, they are afraid little sissies that are happy to give up liberty, ethics and the rule of law for a false sense of safety. It's not a new thing. It's just funny to watch them continue to pull every boogeyman they can out from under their beds and try to scare me with them.

Sissies is what they are.

I question the point of torture, when it gives terrorist groups cause to hate America - and gives them training in how to torture people in Iraq and Syria (as they use the techniques they suffered while under torture).

Pretty sure you dont need to give the jihadis torture lessons..
They already appear to be quite adept at it already.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So what I'm gathering is that the whole pro-torture argument is based on ... "but we're afraid ..."

Compelling argument, huh?

Those who have died to protect our ideals and principles were surely afraid too. But the difference is THEY had the courage to stand up for something.

If George Washington could defeat the most powerful military force of the day with a bunch of shopkeepers and farmers WITHOUT torture, what makes you think the United States of America can't handle these idiots without it? What a slap in the face to ALL Those - living and dead - who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces

Yes, they are afraid little sissies that are happy to give up liberty, ethics and the rule of law for a false sense of safety. It's not a new thing. It's just funny to watch them continue to pull every boogeyman they can out from under their beds and try to scare me with them.

Sissies is what they are.

Terrorist sympathizer.
Would rather see thousands of dead Americans than water board a terrorist.
Just cant wrap my head around that......

It's over your head. You're too caught up in being scared to understand. All I will say is it has nothing to do with apologizing for "terrorists" and has everything to do with not becoming just like them.

WAY over your head type stuff.

Which begs the question, do we want our policy set by people who admittedly don't understand the issue? ... who can't "wrap their head around" what this does to the United States of America?

Oh I understand your angle on it completely I just dont agree with it.
And I promise you we're torturing jihadis under obama and we'll continue to torture them after we seat a new president.

 

[martybegan]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

BULLSHIT.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

I like Pattons take on war much better than yours...
No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

George S. Patton

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I wish there were more Americans who were willing to make sacrifices in order to preserve our principles. Without them, America would already be gone.

There's a price to paid for such things and these guys aren't willing to pay it. Survival is all that really matters to them.

It truly hurts to see them crap on those who had/have real courage.

I don't call humanity a disease for no reason. In the final analysis, humans are not a moral species. Only during the good times do they begin to approach such a thing. Now, if you look at them as an immoral creature, just another base animal but with a VISA card, if you remove the very idea from your mind that they can be moral, then when the times are good they do okay. It's when the times are bad that you see what they're really made of, like this thread and subject for example. They are beings you wouldn't trust your wallet with, let alone your dog or your daughter...

 

[nodoginnafight]

If you are NOT willing to stand up for your principles, then what the hell is the point of living anyway?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

BULLSHIT.

See, that's the problem here. That's the God's honest truth, and you reject it. It's why you are on your side and I am on a side of my own making.

I don't even really blame Bush for 9-11, that was the guys flying the planes and OBL, but it did happen on his watch and many mistakes were made. Shit happens, that's life on this rock.

 

[martybegan]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

BULLSHIT.

See, that's the problem here. That's the God's honest truth, and you reject it. It's why you are on your side and I am on a side of my own making.

I don't even really blame Bush for 9-11, that was the guys flying the planes and OBL, but it did happen on his watch and many mistakes were made. Shit happens, that's life on this rock.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The difference is the patriots were willing to die for their beliefs. While you sissies are more than happy to cower in fear, trade in your principles and act just like them.

Terrorists forgo any consideration for their "rights" when they break the rules of war. Allowing them protections despite this vindicates their decision to violate said rules, and encourages it.

You still do not get that this isn't about them, it;s about us and who we are. So saying what you said is backwards. Turning into them and not maintaining our principles is what really vindicates them. But you just do not get it because you're scared and want safety.

What i want is information out of the bastards, that precludes true torture, because all you get is what you want to hear, not the truth. What I am not against is stressing the bastards, be it sleep deprivation, calorie limitation, and psychological methods if it is determined they have information we need. Some people consider that "torture" I do not, however if the person is an american citizen you can't even do that until you rescind said citizenship.

I have to say the level of torture would be dictated by how valuable the info was.
If you knew the guy had info on something that could save thousands of people and it was time sensitive...you do whats necessary to get that info.

You do what you need to do to get the information. Just hurting someone rarely produces results, unless you do it over a long period of time. You need to BREAK them, and that is more of a pyschological exercise than a physical one.

Torture gets the answer the torture victim thinks you want, breaking gets you the actual answer.

Pain is going to be the only option you have in a time sensitive situation.
And I would bet they'd get it out of him if he had the info. The stories you hear about people withstanding torture rather than talking are highly exaggerated.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If you are NOT willing to stand up for your principles, then what the hell is the point of living anyway?

They don't see it that way. To them living is all that matters, not how. They would rather live as slaves than die as free men but since they don't know themselves they will never admit to such a thing. If the choice were renounce Jesus and live, or keep him and die, out goes Jesus, he'll forgive them they think. The same with rape your daughter and you both live or don't and you both die. Off will come those cute cotton panties 99 out of a 100 times. Living to them is all that really matters, obviously.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

BULLSHIT.

See, that's the problem here. That's the God's honest truth, and you reject it. It's why you are on your side and I am on a side of my own making.

I don't even really blame Bush for 9-11, that was the guys flying the planes and OBL, but it did happen on his watch and many mistakes were made. Shit happens, that's life on this rock.

Your inability to accept the truth cannot be helped. You reject it just as do reality. So be it.

I do have news for you however. The government can't protect you. They will try of course but in the end you are on your own and shit happens. Do keep that in mind.

 

[martybegan]

Terrorists forgo any consideration for their "rights" when they break the rules of war. Allowing them protections despite this vindicates their decision to violate said rules, and encourages it.

You still do not get that this isn't about them, it;s about us and who we are. So saying what you said is backwards. Turning into them and not maintaining our principles is what really vindicates them. But you just do not get it because you're scared and want safety.

What i want is information out of the bastards, that precludes true torture, because all you get is what you want to hear, not the truth. What I am not against is stressing the bastards, be it sleep deprivation, calorie limitation, and psychological methods if it is determined they have information we need. Some people consider that "torture" I do not, however if the person is an american citizen you can't even do that until you rescind said citizenship.

I have to say the level of torture would be dictated by how valuable the info was.
If you knew the guy had info on something that could save thousands of people and it was time sensitive...you do whats necessary to get that info.

You do what you need to do to get the information. Just hurting someone rarely produces results, unless you do it over a long period of time. You need to BREAK them, and that is more of a pyschological exercise than a physical one.

Torture gets the answer the torture victim thinks you want, breaking gets you the actual answer.

Pain is going to be the only option you have in a time sensitive situation.
And I would bet they'd get it out of him if he had the info. The stories you hear about people withstanding torture rather than talking are highly exaggerated.

Drugs and deception are better. Pain gets you a quick answer, and someone with the right conditioning will have a bullshit plausible story ready to give once the pain gets too great.

Plus you have to remember that you can put a person into shock and unconsciousness with too much pain, which still defeats the purpose.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The stories you hear about getting good information through torture have been tremendously exaggerated.

 

[martybegan]

If you are NOT willing to stand up for your principles, then what the hell is the point of living anyway?

They don't see it that way. To them living is all that matters, not how. They would rather live as slaves than die as free men but since they don't know themselves they will never admit to such a thing. If the choice were renounce Jesus and live, or keep him and die, out goes Jesus, he'll forgive them they think. The same with rape your daughter and you both live or don't and you both die. Off will come those cute cotton panties 99 out of a 100 times. Living to them is all that really matters, obviously.

This coming from someone who wants the government to tell us how to live down to levels of minutiae is comical.

 

[martybegan]

The stories you hear about getting good information through torture have been tremendously exaggerated.

Torture, yes. Breaking a person usually gives all sorts of info, and breaking isn't necessarily torture.

 

[nodoginnafight]

If you are NOT willing to stand up for your principles, then what the hell is the point of living anyway?

They don't see it that way. To them living is all that matters, not how. They would rather live as slaves than die as free men but since they don't know themselves they will never admit to such a thing. If the choice were renounce Jesus and live, or keep him and die, out goes Jesus, he'll forgive them they think. The same with rape your daughter and you both live or don't and you both die. Off will come those cute cotton panties 99 out of a 100 times. Living to them is all that really matters, obviously.

This coming from someone who wants the government to tell us how to live down to levels of minutiae is comical.

Why not stick to debating the issue rather than trying to make a speculative personal attack? Do you have a response to the point?

I get really pissed too, but you are probably the most logical of all the folks on this thread who is taking your position. Don't toss that.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a pussy, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

I've done no such thing, and I don't expect the government to protect me. That is what makes us so different.

Had Bush been able to stop 9-11 using torture and didn't, because it is immoral, I would not blame him, I would praise him, for being moral. At some point the rubber hits the road. For most of you that is when your survival is threatened. That, BTW, is when you are being a pussy. I am perfectly willing to die for my convictions and perfectly willing to let others die for my convictions, they are that good and when this nation is at its best that kind of thinking is understood. That is not now, obviously.

I like Pattons take on war much better than yours...
No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

George S. Patton

That is how you win a war. The question is, as always, was it worth whatever you paid to do so? For a soldier to try and survive is part of the game, but ask yourself if the choice was die or betray your country, which choice would you approve of?

 

[martybegan]

If you are NOT willing to stand up for your principles, then what the hell is the point of living anyway?

They don't see it that way. To them living is all that matters, not how. They would rather live as slaves than die as free men but since they don't know themselves they will never admit to such a thing. If the choice were renounce Jesus and live, or keep him and die, out goes Jesus, he'll forgive them they think. The same with rape your daughter and you both live or don't and you both die. Off will come those cute cotton panties 99 out of a 100 times. Living to them is all that really matters, obviously.

This coming from someone who wants the government to tell us how to live down to levels of minutiae is comical.

Why not stick to debating the issue rather than trying to make a speculative personal attack? Do you have a response to the point?

I get really pissed too, but you are probably the most logical of all the folks on this thread who is taking your position. Don't toss that.

When responding to you and a few others I have no issue staying on point, PaintMyTwat on the other hand, has earned or deserves neither.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If you are NOT willing to stand up for your principles, then what the hell is the point of living anyway?

They don't see it that way. To them living is all that matters, not how. They would rather live as slaves than die as free men but since they don't know themselves they will never admit to such a thing. If the choice were renounce Jesus and live, or keep him and die, out goes Jesus, he'll forgive them they think. The same with rape your daughter and you both live or don't and you both die. Off will come those cute cotton panties 99 out of a 100 times. Living to them is all that really matters, obviously.

This coming from someone who wants the government to tell us how to live down to levels of minutiae is comical.

No, that's not me. I'm the guy who believes the elites should rule, like the Founders, and for good reasons. The pitchforks make terrible decisions, like in the case of using torture for instance.