Trump thinks he can change the Constitution via EO

[BrokeLoser]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


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DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

WRONG
Further, DACA wasn’t/ isn’t about appropriation of funds, it’s about a weird form of fabricated citizenship.

 

[martybegan]

Nothing more than an opinion. This has never been argued in the federal courts to this point.

What part of

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.​

Is unclear?

The "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part.

Has that ever adequately been explained via federal courts?

If a person who is a citizen of another country, and thus is subject to the jurisdiction of said country, has a child, might that countries laws make that child a citizen, and thus subject to another jurisdiction?

People in the United States are subject to the laws of the United States, even if they aren’t citizens. This is well established in law.

Heck, even non-citizens who aren’t in the United States can be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States if they do business with people or organizations in the United States.

Laws yes, but what is the definition of jurisdiction?

And while they may need to comply with our laws to do business, they are not under the jurisdiction of the US unless their country agrees to it, usually via extradition treaties.

Jurisdiction is the ability of an entity to enforce laws and administer justice.

The US has jurisdiction to enforce laws within its borders regardless of the legal status of the individual.

And what the 14th Amendment says is that if an individual for whom the federal government and the state has jurisdiction is born in the United States, that person is a citizen.

So does the birth country of the person giving birth to the child, if the go with parentage based citizenship.

It's up to the Court to decide.

First if Trump has any actual authority to do what he's doing, and second when and if congress tries something, if they do.

 

[martybegan]

Why does anything think that if you sneak across the border and squirt out a baby, that child SHOULD be an American citizen?

What practicality does it serve?

The 14th AMMENDEMENT was passed during Reconstruction for the purpose of allowing the children of slaves to be citizens. People who were KIDNAPPED AND TAKEN to America.

Not people sneaking across the border.

Then amend the Constitution.

Until then, anyone born in this country is an American citizen.

That hasn't been established via the Courts yet.

This is going to start that process.

Yes it has. Wok Kim Ark answers your arguments.

That applies to people here legally.

 

[bendog]

The Supreme Court has never ruled on whether a baby born to an ILLEGAL has standing. In 1898 they ruled that legal immigrants children become American citizens at birth.

Certainly a ploy by Trump to force the Supreme Court to rule on the matter.

As it is, I am convinced that the 14th Amendment did not protect illegals on the question of birthright.

Mark

That's the question. But if Trump's ploy was just about forcing the SC to rule, he didn't have to wait until a week before an election while declaring we are being invaded by a caravan 1000 miles away from our border. LOL

 

[ColonelAngus]

The Supreme Court has never ruled on whether a baby born to an ILLEGAL has standing. In 1898 they ruled that legal immigrants children become American citizens at birth.

Certainly a ploy by Trump to force the Supreme Court to rule on the matter.

As it is, I am convinced that the 14th Amendment did not protect illegals on the question of birthright.

Mark

That's the question. But if Trump's ploy was just about forcing the SC to rule, he didn't have to wait until a week before an election while declaring we are being invaded by a caravan 1000 miles away from our border. LOL

What practical purpose does it serve to allow someone to sneak across the border illegally and have a baby, and that baby is an American citizen?

Why?

 

[bendog]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

WRONG
Further, DACA wasn’t/ isn’t about appropriation of funds, it’s about a weird form of fabricated citizenship.

Odd The Orange Bloat agreed to let the Daca guys stay in exchange for his wall before he backed out of the "deal."

 

[80zephyr]

Trump is actually using an Executive Order for it's intended purpose in this case.

Specifically to issue an executive action on a question that has never been addressed by either the courts or Congress, which is the application of the 14th Amendment to children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrant or temporary legal status parents.

This isn't an attempt to CHANGE the Constitution but to force an interpretation of it from one (or both) of the other branches.

I suspect than when the dust is settled the Judicial Branch will rule in favor of birthright citizenship for the children of illegals/temporary legal status and Congress being Congress will remain mute on the question.

There is no upside

Yes there is an upside, if SCOTUS rules in favor of birthright citizenship for the children of illegals/temporary legal status (which I suspect it would) then Stare Decisis will be on the side of those children and they have much less to worry about when it comes to having their citizenship yanked by some future Executive and/or Congress.

No upside for Trump I meant

Sure there is, he's getting his base fired up right before the mid terms on his signature issue, whether he follows through on this EO or not, the timing is purely political.

I thought it was kind of funny that during the interview he played coy about being surprised that Axios knew about the EO, I'd be willing to bet he's the one that ordered it to be leaked.

I disagree with the calculus. Tinkering with the Constitution is disastrous. The hardcore Trump supporters may be on board...suburban soccer moms? No.

There is no tinkering. Every case the SCOTUS takes is to provide clarification of our laws under the Constitution.

Do you have a problem with that?

Mark

 

[bodecea]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

They were stupid enough to vote for him
They believe anything he rants about

No. We were smart enough to vote for him.

You were dumb enough to vote for Hitlery.

I for one sure hope he can change the 14th and get rid of the anchor babies.

"I for one sure hope he can change the 14th"..... Someone who doesn't know that the President has no power to change the Constitution. Did you vote for tiny trump?

 

[80zephyr]

The Supreme Court has never ruled on whether a baby born to an ILLEGAL has standing. In 1898 they ruled that legal immigrants children become American citizens at birth.

Certainly a ploy by Trump to force the Supreme Court to rule on the matter.

As it is, I am convinced that the 14th Amendment did not protect illegals on the question of birthright.

Mark

That's the question. But if Trump's ploy was just about forcing the SC to rule, he didn't have to wait until a week before an election while declaring we are being invaded by a caravan 1000 miles away from our border. LOL

True. Maybe he feels it advantageous at this time to bring up the issue.

Mark

 

[DJT for Life]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

DACA was a Presidential memo telling Federal and State LEO's to disregard
Federal law and not arrest/deport those people. He gave them a pseudo
Green Card even though they are in the country illegally.

It is every bit about the Constitution. All laws must be constitutional.

The Emancipation Proclamation was even worse. Lincoln exempted States
and/or Counties from his EO, if they were not in favor of secession.

He ended slavery (tried) in the States that had seceded from the Union,
but he did not end slavery in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Kentucky
and Missouri. He also did not end slavery in the 48 western most counties
of Virginia. Not only that but he encouraged those counties to secede from
Virginia. They did and a year later West Virginia was admitted to the Union
as a "Slave State."

Talk about picking and choosing...

 

[ColonelAngus]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

WRONG
Further, DACA wasn’t/ isn’t about appropriation of funds, it’s about a weird form of fabricated citizenship.

Odd The Orange Bloat agreed to let the Daca guys stay in exchange for his wall before he backed out of the "deal."

The most popular compromise in the Senate would have given in to the White House's demands, which included $25 billion for construction of the wall along the US-Mexico border and other security measures in addition to providing a pathway to citizenship for DACA recipients. That plan received some Democratic support, but failed 54-45.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Ok go ahead and follow the REPEAL process Constitution provides for.

You don't need a constitutional amendment. There's nothing to repeal because birthright citizenship for children of illegal immmigrants does not exist in the constitution. All that's really needed is Congress.

The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude from automatic citizenship American-born persons whose allegiance to the United States was incomplete.

For example, Native Americans were excluded from American citizenship because of their tribal jurisdiction.

Also not subject to American jurisdiction were foreign visitors, ambassadors, consuls, and their babies born here.

In the case of illegal immigrants, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Therefore, the completeness of the allegiance to the United States is impaired and logically precludes automatic citizenship.

The only thing that will happen is the court will interpret it correctly. By default they must interpret ''subject to the jurisdiction of'' to reflect the fact that completeness of the allegiance to the United States is impaired and logically precludes automatic citizenship for the child.


Some of that I pasted from Federation for Immigration Reform. I'm tired of typing. It's convenient, but it's also the correct assessment of the situation at hand.

 

[BrokeLoser]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

WRONG
Further, DACA wasn’t/ isn’t about appropriation of funds, it’s about a weird form of fabricated citizenship.

Odd The Orange Bloat agreed to let the Daca guys stay in exchange for his wall before he backed out of the "deal."

True, he did go full LibTardian for a minute.

 

[80zephyr]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

WRONG
Further, DACA wasn’t/ isn’t about appropriation of funds, it’s about a weird form of fabricated citizenship.

Odd The Orange Bloat agreed to let the Daca guys stay in exchange for his wall before he backed out of the "deal."

Apparently, the "deal" favored one side over the other. That will cause a "no deal" response.

Mark

 

[bodecea]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

SCOTUS Baby! Hang on to your pussyhat.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Where is the interpretation wiggle room in that?

 

[joaquinmiller]

It's propaganda to fire up the bigots before the mid-terms.

Isn't that what your side is dong by calling Trump a dictator over this?

I haven't called him a dictator, but I have to admit, if he can change the Constitution at a whim, or has the absolute authority to pardon himself - as he has claimed -then maybe 'dictator-wannabe' is the right term.

Equally to the point, Trump is the actor here - if he doesn't start this bullshit, there is no controversy. He wants the controversy, while you want to pretend it's 50/50.

 

[80zephyr]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

They were stupid enough to vote for him
They believe anything he rants about

No. We were smart enough to vote for him.

You were dumb enough to vote for Hitlery.

I for one sure hope he can change the 14th and get rid of the anchor babies.

"I for one sure hope he can change the 14th"..... Someone who doesn't know that the President has no power to change the Constitution. Did you vote for tiny trump?

We are learning from the left that change can come from the SCOTUS. How does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot?

Mark

 

[Crixus]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Would it be the first time a presidant made law with his own and his phone?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Change the constitution.....according to you it's a living breathing document that can be changed at any time.

But even for us originalists......it can be, because the 14 amendment wasn't about Hondurans or Mexicans......it was about making slaves citizens...it had nothing to do with people crossing the borders to have kids..that can and will be restricted, id prefer congress act, but I'll take an EO for now.

 

[80zephyr]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

SCOTUS Baby! Hang on to your pussyhat.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Where is the interpretation wiggle room in that?

Its been explained already. Illegals are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Mark