Trump thinks he can change the Constitution via EO

[Flash]

God bless Trump for doing the right thing.

Is about time we put an end to these filthy ass Illegals coming here to drop a baby to get citizenship.

If a foreign parent wants their child to be an American citizen then they need to apply for citizenship and go through the process. This bit about swimming across the Rio Grande and dropping the kid on our welfare system and education system needs to end now.

 

[ColonelAngus]

It’s a calculated move to open the debate.The 14th ammendment is for slaves.

`
Perhaps you should read up on the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship. It can be changed only by congressionnal amendment, a national constitutional convention or an amendment that can be ratified by a favorable vote in three-fourths of all state legislatures or by such a vote in specially called ratifying conventions called in three-fourths of the states. An executive order doesn't cut it.

Nothing more than an opinion. This has never been argued in the federal courts to this point.

What part of

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.​

Is unclear?

It's not intended for Birth tourism from fucking China.

It's intended for slaves.

It was a RECONSTRUCTION AMMENDENT PASSED ADTER THE CIVIL WAR.

Anyone who claims it had nothing to do with slaves is an idiot.

 

[candycorn]

Trump is actually using an Executive Order for it's intended purpose in this case.

Specifically to issue an executive action on a question that has never been addressed by either the courts or Congress, which is the application of the 14th Amendment to children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrant or temporary legal status parents.

This isn't an attempt to CHANGE the Constitution but to force an interpretation of it from one (or both) of the other branches.

I suspect than when the dust is settled the Judicial Branch will rule in favor of birthright citizenship for the children of illegals/temporary legal status and Congress being Congress will remain mute on the question.

There is no upside

Yes there is an upside, if SCOTUS rules in favor of birthright citizenship for the children of illegals/temporary legal status (which I suspect it would) then Stare Decisis will be on the side of those children and they have much less to worry about when it comes to having their citizenship yanked by some future Executive and/or Congress.

No upside for Trump I meant

Sure there is, he's getting his base fired up right before the mid terms on his signature issue, whether he follows through on this EO or not, the timing is purely political.

I thought it was kind of funny that during the interview he played coy about being surprised that Axios knew about the EO, I'd be willing to bet he's the one that ordered it to be leaked.

I disagree with the calculus. Tinkering with the Constitution is disastrous. The hardcore Trump supporters may be on board...suburban soccer moms? No.

 

[skews13]

I hope and pray he does....

And then every Republican on the ballot has to run on that? Fantastic.

There’s been to much emphasis placed on the powers of the executive and judicial branch of government since Trump was elected. A little constitutional 101 is in order here.

ARTICLE 1 SECTION 1;

All Legislative powers herein granted, shall be vested in a Congress, that shall consist of a Senate an a House of Representatives...

Pay close attention to the word ALL.

It doesn’t say SOME or SHARED

It says ALL

The Founders did not or ever intend either the President or the Courts to have ANY legislative powers.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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article 2 gives the president broad executive and enforcement authority

and discretion to determine how to enforce the law

it is subject to judicial review

 

[Flash]

I hope he can do it but I think Congress needs to get off its fat ass and make it happen.

Congress can't make it happen either.

Oh I know the Supreme Court would have the final say on it but I thought it would take Congress to present it to them.

Pretty cut and dry for the courts. They will side with Trump. The 14th Amendment says that the person born in the US is a citizen only if they are under the jurisdiction of the US. Illegals by definition don't fit that requirement.

God bless Trump for doing the right thing.

I hope he is successful and saves we the tax payer billions and gets the illegals out of America.

Trump is doing the right thing.

Things like this to protect the sovereignty of the US should have been done decades ago.

Trump is right. We have the worst immigration laws in the whole world.

Thank god he was elected instead of that Crooked Hillary bitch, who would have been a continuation of the Obama disaster.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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Libtardos are always claiming the Constitution is a living document that needs to change with the times. That's why they want libtardo judges so they can apply their "nuance".

Of course it only applies to the things they want changed. And they don't want the living document changed when it applies to their future voting base.

it is as long as it is the changes they like

otherwise not so much

 

[boilermaker55]

Most who post seem to think their "opinion" is what is law. They never venture out of the confines of their own domain. so their dominant attitude they feel is right no matter.
Thank you for the post.

>snip/iunsnip> But, I do think taking this action gets the debate started on correcting the 14th Amendment language so that it does not include anchor babies, as it never was the intent.

`
I'm always open for discussion but on this forum you have hundreds of self-appointed constitutional experts, none with any legal training, convinced their interpretation of the constitution is the the correct one and everyone else, including SCOTUS, is wrong. Not much of a chance for any rational discussion there,

 

[Toro]

It’s a calculated move to open the debate.The 14th ammendment is for slaves.

`
Perhaps you should read up on the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship. It can be changed only by congressionnal amendment, a national constitutional convention or an amendment that can be ratified by a favorable vote in three-fourths of all state legislatures or by such a vote in specially called ratifying conventions called in three-fourths of the states. An executive order doesn't cut it.

Nothing more than an opinion. This has never been argued in the federal courts to this point.

What part of

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.​

Is unclear?

The "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part.

Has that ever adequately been explained via federal courts?

If a person who is a citizen of another country, and thus is subject to the jurisdiction of said country, has a child, might that countries laws make that child a citizen, and thus subject to another jurisdiction?

People in the United States are subject to the laws of the United States, even if they aren’t citizens. This is well established in law.

Heck, even non-citizens who aren’t in the United States can be subject to the jurisdiction of the United States if they do business with people or organizations in the United States.

 

[BrokeLoser]

It’s a calculated move to open the debate.The 14th ammendment is for slaves.

`
Perhaps you should read up on the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship. It can be changed only by congressionnal amendment, a national constitutional convention or an amendment that can be ratified by a favorable vote in three-fourths of all state legislatures or by such a vote in specially called ratifying conventions called in three-fourths of the states. An executive order doesn't cut it.

Nothing more than an opinion. This has never been argued in the federal courts to this point.

What part of

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.​

Is unclear?

Hopefully martybegan just clarified it for you.
Use your head and think back to the document headline / title.... “We The People” not “We The People Of Mexico”
See, this pesky document you hate was written for Americans only...this document was never intended to be used for foreigners to benefit, it is not an international document.

 

[Natural Citizen]

If they came here illegally, are they subject to US law? That's the question.

By coming here illegally they're openly demonstrating that they do not consent to our rule of law. That they reject our rule of law.

The question is moot. They're foreign agents. And that's a matter of national security.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


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I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


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[BrokeLoser]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


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Link please?

 

[NightFox]

Nothing prevented illegal aliens being imported to replace slave labor. .

You mean except for the laws that made them illegal ?

Exactly. If they came here illegally, are they subject to US law? That's the question.

Of course they're subject to U.S. laws, that would apply to anybody on U.S. soil with the exception of diplomats and the like.

I'm no lawyer (thank God) but I don't think it's quite that simple when comes to birthright citizenship for the children of illegals, if it were the question would not have been ducked by all three branches for so long.

IMHO If this EO does get issued, the SCOTUS decision and the reasoning behind it that will almost certainly follow will be very interesting.

 

[Flash]

14th Amendment was written for the benefit of post Civil War slaves and is outdated.

No other country has birthright citizenship to non citizen parents. We shouldn't either.

 

[Auld Phart]

Trump plans to sign executive order curbing birthright citizenship: report

President Trump said in a newly released interview he plans to sign an executive order ending so-called "birthright citizenship" for babies of non-citizens born on U.S. soil -- a move that would mark a major overhaul of immigration policy and trigger an almost-certain legal battle.

Birthright citizenship allows any baby born on U.S. soil to automatically be a U.S. citizen.

The policy, which stems from a disputed but long-recognized interpretation of the 14th Amendment, has given rise to what Trump considers abuse of the immigration system. Trump told "Axios on HBO" that the U.S. is the only country in the world "where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States ... with all of those benefits."

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DICTATOR Trump desires to completely bypass the responsibilities of The US Congress.

100 years too late

So, you want America to be a dictatorship in which the lawful responsibilities of The US Congress are bypassed with the stroke of a pen by a dictator?

Fvck, you really DO HATE The Constitution.

no

I'm tired of BOTH sides misusing it for their own purposes.

If the wife and I go to Spain, England, Germany, etc, and have a child.


The child is AMERICAN, NOT Spanish, NOT English, NOT German.

If someone comes here and has a child, it should NOT make them American, unless one of the parents is American.

 

[bendog]

Trump is hot air.

But it would have been interesting, at least to me hypothetically and academically, if the US Congress has consistently passed laws setting up a scheme that the only legal standing of an illegal immigrant was to challenge deportation. Can't be convicted of a crime. Can't sue for the cops beating them up. Nothing.

And the only thing the govt can do to them is to deport them. And most of the rights given to them in deportation are because of congress.

But we didn't, and there's no way to honestly say they aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

Of course we could pass a federal law pretty easily, at least we could have assuming the dems win the House, making it pretty hard for any illegal immigrant to get a job here.

 

[bendog]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I’m curious...did you say something similar when the Kenyan King single-handedly rewrote constitutional guidelines with DACA?

Yes, yes I did


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

DACA was not about changing a constitutional amendment. The potus has always had authority to determine how to spend money on immigration.

 

[joaquinmiller]

Birthright citizenship makes all the sense in the world for a nation of immigrants. It's pretty much how all our ancestors became citizens.

 

[caddo kid]

Trump plans to sign executive order curbing birthright citizenship: report

President Trump said in a newly released interview he plans to sign an executive order ending so-called "birthright citizenship" for babies of non-citizens born on U.S. soil -- a move that would mark a major overhaul of immigration policy and trigger an almost-certain legal battle.

Birthright citizenship allows any baby born on U.S. soil to automatically be a U.S. citizen.

The policy, which stems from a disputed but long-recognized interpretation of the 14th Amendment, has given rise to what Trump considers abuse of the immigration system. Trump told "Axios on HBO" that the U.S. is the only country in the world "where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States ... with all of those benefits."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DICTATOR Trump desires to completely bypass the responsibilities of The US Congress.

100 years too late

So, you want America to be a dictatorship in which the lawful responsibilities of The US Congress are bypassed with the stroke of a pen by a dictator?

Fvck, you really DO HATE The Constitution.

no

I'm tired of BOTH sides misusing it for their own purposes.

If the wife and I go to Spain, England, Germany, etc, and have a child.


The child is AMERICAN, NOT Spanish, NOT English, NOT German.

If someone comes here and has a child, it should NOT make them American, unless one of the parents is American.

So, you want America to become a DICTATORSHIP in which Congress passes it responsibilities to POTUS, to repeal Constitutional Amendments, which is the function of the US Congress?

Yes, or No will do.