Trump thinks he can change the Constitution via EO

[busybee01]

No it isn't Moon Bat because the Heller and McDonald cases put the confusion about the meaning of well regulated and the silliness about the militia to rest.

The courts have also ruled on the interpretation of the Citizenship Clause:

"The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. ... To hold that the fourteenth amendment of the constitution excludes from citizenship the children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of other countries, would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage, who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States. -- United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898)
​

See also, Plyler v. Doe (1982):

"Every citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States.” ... No plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘ jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful."
​

Both quotes taken from this article on the 14th amendment written by a Trump appointee to the 5th circuit court of appeals.

​

Nope. The 14th Amendment has been misinterpreted to include children of illegals. It's original intent was to grant citizenship to freed slaves in a counter move to head of Democrats attempts to maintain slavery in the South.

This isn't true either. The application of the amendment to immigrants was discussed at the time it was written, see for example quoted passages in this post, also taken from the above article.

Sorry, that is a misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment.
Nevermind the obvious difference in a legal sense of immigrants and illegal aliens.
Nothing in the 14th Amendment grants rights to criminal immigrants....only legal immigrants. You see you can't tell the difference because you feel you benefit from criminal behavior.

The 14th Amendment is clear. The only exception it makes is for families of diplomats. Other than that, it does not say some of the people are American citizens but all of them. It says all persons born in the United States. It does not say some or everyone but.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I hope and pray he does....

And then every Republican on the ballot has to run on that? Fantastic.

Why would every Republican have to run on that? Not every Republican supports that decision, and trump doesn't speak for everyRepublican, he speaks for himself.

 

[Darkwind]

Too bad they did not put that part in the Constitution.

It is part of the Consitution. It is the 14th Amendment.

Not the part highlighted.

How it is written supports and upholds what is written.

It wasn't until after 1960 that the notion that illegals had a 14th Amendment protection for their children born on our soil. I'm afraid that there is a very good argument and legal precedent for doing away with the current notion of foreign influenced individuals having a 14th Amendment protection.

However, that has to be pushed in the courts. Trump has no authority to change the Constitution. He can deport children born of illegal immigrants along with the illegal immigrant as that IS within his power.

 

[caddo kid]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

TRUMPIANS across the planet BELIEVE THEIR BELOVED DONALD DUCK.

The 'GIANT ORANGE SPHINCTER Trump' will continue to rain SHIT upon the planet & MANY will fall for the shit.

 

[Darkwind]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Because Indian tribes are sovereign nations.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It’s a calculated move to open the debate.The 14th ammendment is for slaves.

`
Perhaps you should read up on the 14th Amendment and birthright citizenship. It can be changed only by congressionnal amendment, a national constitutional convention or an amendment that can be ratified by a favorable vote in three-fourths of all state legislatures or by such a vote in specially called ratifying conventions called in three-fourths of the states. An executive order doesn't cut it.

Welll... yes and no. You see, what he is trying to do is work on the interpretation of the 14th, hes not trying to change it.

The part that states "...and is subject to the jurisdiction thereof..." is the part that he will be working around. It will ultimately end up in the SC for them to interpret.

 

[Darkwind]

Trump plans to sign executive order ending birthright citizenship: Axios

More red meat for the masses. Even he is not stupid enough to think this will work.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

TRUMPIANS across the planet BELIEVE THEIR BELOVED DONALD DUCK.

The 'GIANT ORANGE SPHINCTER Trump' will continue to rain SHIT upon the planet & MANY will fall for the shit.

He's just shitting on people like you and I'm okay with that even though I am not a Trump supporter.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Source: CNBC.COM original story on Axios
Trump wants to sign an order to end birthright citizenship, setting up a constitutional battle

"President Donald Trump is planning to terminate birthright citizenship, according to a report by Axios, potentially setting up another stand-off between the U.S. president and the courts.

Trump plans to sign an executive order that would remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S. soil, he said Monday, according to Axios which used the exclusive interview to promote a new documentary series called "Axios on HBO."

"This would be the most dramatic move yet in Trump's hardline immigration campaign, this time targeting 'anchor babies' and 'chain migration'," Axios said in its report.


Trump's comments come as he continues to push a hard anti-immigration line ahead of the midterms this month, and many experts will highlight that it's not within the president's power to change birthright citizenship.

"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump reportedly said, declaring he can do it by using an executive order.

Trump said he had run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed, despite likely controversy. However, during the same interview Trump expressed surprise that Axios knew about his secret plan: "I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one," he said."

Let the fun, games and gnashing of teeth begin.

This should be an interesting court battle if President Twitter follows through with the Executive Order since the courts have never ruled on the question of whether or not the 14th Amendment applies to illegal immigrants or foreigners with temporary legal status.

Personally I don't think he's going to win this battle but I guess we'll see.

"May you live in interesting times" -- Chinese Curse

I am not sure that is legal but does need to be done. It has been out of control for a long time. There still is another adm still hung up to put womens rights in the Consitution and this is just one state short of being passed.

 

[busybee01]

Just saw the arguments for not granting citizenship to illegals under the 14th Amendment. The argument convinced me.
The intent of the amendments wording, as explained by the writers "excludes the children of diplomats and anyone who is a citizen of another country"

Birthright Citizenship for Children of Foreign Diplomats?

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

Its the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" that has been misinterpreted by the government, and should be the basis for rejecting the Chinese and Russian "cottage industry" of making US anchor babies. I hope Trump succeeds in ending the "anchor baby" fiasco, because currently 1 out of every 12 births are to non-citizens and create an anchor baby. Its not changing the 14th Amendment, its correctly interpreting it.

If you are in the country, you are subject to the jurisdiction of the county, city, state and country.

The writers of the 14th Amendment explained that "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" meant that foreign citizens are excluded because they are subject to the jurisdiction of another country. They specifically said that births of foreign diplomats would not gain US citizenship. That is the "intent" of the 14th Amendment. SEE POST #168 ABOVE

Anyone who is in this country is subject to the laws of the county, state, and country. If Americans go to another country, they are subject to the jurisdiction of another country. No one is claiming that births of foreign diplomats and their families make their offspring US citizens.

Please re-read the post #168 highlighted portion again. The intent of the 14th specifically excludes foreigners and aliens.

It does not. You dropped your highlight at a very critical point. "who belong to families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

 

[80zephyr]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Because Indian tribes are sovereign nations.

And? Is China a sovereign nation? If an American Indian baby can be born on American soil without becoming an American, then why should a Chinese be able to?

Mark

 

[ThisIsMe]

I disagree with the EO to end BRC, as that is a part of the const., what he should have done instead is just have the SC define "subject to the jurisdiction.."

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Stupid , archaic racism. Next softball...

 

[busybee01]

Good way to get the ball rolling on The Constitutionality of Birth Right Citizenship. Today's Leftist interpretation is completely Unconstitutional.

This was always meant for Legal Immigrants, or people on Work Visas, Student Visas that had children in THE US while they were in a LEGAL STATUS. Those children then become automatic American Citizens.

The language is clear and even Paul Ryan admits it.

"Even" Paul Ryan.

Well then, a lost cause.

He has not lost all of his sanity unlike white supremacist Republicans like you.

 

[80zephyr]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Stupid , archaic racism. Next softball...

Translation?

Mark

 

[Faun]

Who said it’s not still a living document?

If true, then Trump can do what he wants.

Mark

Sure he can ... and when he signs an executive order that violates the Constitution like this one, the Supreme Court will squash it like a conservative on the windshield of an 18-wheeler.

So then its not a living document.

Mark

LOLOL

I just posted the text from the Constitution itself where it details the process for amending it — and you’re still ignorant??

Amending it does not make it the "living document" the left claims it to be. They claim it can be interpreted differently because todays needs are different than they were yesterday.

Mark

Dumbshit.... it’s a living document because it can be changed.

 

[Darkwind]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Because Indian tribes are sovereign nations.

And? Is China a sovereign nation? If an American Indian baby can be born on American soil without becoming an American, then why should a Chinese be able to?

Mark

I think you missed the point. American Indians born of Tribal parents who have a child in an American hospital are not considered US citizens. They are foreign nationals who just happen to have had a baby on our soil. They are 'influenced' by another country. In America, the American Indian on his or her tribal land is a foreigner. I do think they have special dispensation though. I'd have to look that up.

A Chinese national giving birth on US soil means the child is a Chinese national.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Stupid , archaic racism. Next softball...

Translation?

Mark

Q, you: "how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?"

A, me: "Stupid , archaic racism. "

 

[ColonelAngus]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Stupid , archaic racism. Next softball...

Russians go on birthing tours.

Trump would be pushing back on Russian babies being American.

I thought Trump and Putin were pals. Why is Trump racist against Russians?

 

[Darkwind]

If true, then Trump can do what he wants.

Mark

Sure he can ... and when he signs an executive order that violates the Constitution like this one, the Supreme Court will squash it like a conservative on the windshield of an 18-wheeler.

So then its not a living document.

Mark

LOLOL

I just posted the text from the Constitution itself where it details the process for amending it — and you’re still ignorant??

Amending it does not make it the "living document" the left claims it to be. They claim it can be interpreted differently because todays needs are different than they were yesterday.

Mark

Dumbshit.... it’s a living document because it can be changed.

In ONLY two ways and it can ONLY be amended, not changed.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If those who believe that the 14th Amendment shows no distinction between who is ruled a citizen and who is not, how come American Indians born in the US were not US citizens?

Mark

Stupid , archaic racism. Next softball...

Russians go on birthing tours.

Trump would be pushing back on Russian babies being American.

I thought Trump and Putin were pals. Why is Trump racist against Russians?

I'm sure that would be news to the ignorant, incurious Trump.