Trump's tax plan.....You judge!

[JoeNormal]

Read my entire post. The last paragraph was-

"How does collecting more taxes from the rich increase the income of the poor? Clearly it does not. We need to address the income gap!"

So wipe your tears, pull your head out of your ass, and offer something meaningful addressing the real issue.

BuckToothMoron, we have bills to pay. Bills that include assistance to the poor and elderly like food stamps, education, medical coverage etc.

Given that, we have to decide how to distribute that burden in a way that makes most sense and is most fair, as vague as that term is.

I understand we have bills to pay. And I also understand we don't pay them now since our debt is increasing. The facts are that the top 20% have continued to pay a higher and higher % of the tax burden while the bottom 50% pay less and less. There is a clear disconnect between taxes and the wealth/income gap. In other words, collecting more taxes from the top does not help the bottom earn more.

I don't know the solution, but we need to examine something other than tax brackets and rates. The wealth gap is higher now than it was just before the Great Depression, and has been increasing since the 1970's. This wealth gap is not a good thing, and it transcends party lines.

They pay higher and higher % of total taxes paid because they make more, while gains were small for everyone else.

When you look at actual % of income taxation they don't pay more than middle class when overall taxation is considered:

The one tax graph you really need to know

Watch these facts get ignored again by the people who want to believe the wealthy pay too much.

 

[kaz]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

That's exactly right and the people who think the SS trust fund has been raided do not understand this.

Well, since it's what I said, obviously I do understand it.

That was not Gore's plan that he ever presented, so what I didn't know is what I asked you, how was Gore going to put it in a lock box?That wasn't his plan

 

[JoeNormal]

There are a number of examples. The worst two I can think of off the top of my head were the debt ceiling brinksmanship and the refusal to even consider any of the medicare-for-all proposals that had been mandated when Obama was elected. Even when the Dems had a super majority, the Republicans were doing everything they could to throw a wrench. The tax increases came quite a bit later and were the last straw.

Typical brain dead answer. Fiscal conservatives fight every debt ceiling increase and seriously, if it weren't for Obama they'd expand medical welfare for all to everyone? It's the typical moron answer you give two liberal things Republicans always fight and say gosh, it's OBAMA.

You're O fer. Try again. What did Republicans oppose they would support if it wasn't for Obama? Maybe go in your head this time, not off the top because you missed

I can remember a time when Republicans were actually the adults in the room. I used to highly admire William F. Buckley and can honestly say (with some embarrassment now) that I voted for Reagan twice and papa Bush once. Republicans weren't always ill tempered toddlers. Are you really that young or were you just too clueless in your youth to have paid any attention?

Yes, every Democrat was a Republican until 2000 when Democrats tried to steal the election and failed. There actually was no Democrat party until then. It's remarkable.

You own guns too, that's how you know gun owners are sick bastards. Another remarkable phenomenon

That probably made sense in your own mind. To everyone else, not so much.

Everyone else? How do you get your head through doorways? Are you Rush Limbaugh? Wow, the arrogance.

I'm mocking you for the lies liberals always tell, that was pretty evident to anyone with a 70+ IQ

That might have been what you were trying to do but you need to chalk another one up to your fail column for that post.

 

[JoeNormal]

When you posted this:

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

That's exactly right and the people who think the SS trust fund has been raided do not understand this.

Well, since it's what I said, obviously I do understand it.

That was not Gore's plan that he ever presented, so what I didn't know is what I asked you, how was Gore going to put it in a lock box?That wasn't his plan

It's still considered a trust fund.
Trust Fund Data

 

[kaz]

Typical brain dead answer. Fiscal conservatives fight every debt ceiling increase and seriously, if it weren't for Obama they'd expand medical welfare for all to everyone? It's the typical moron answer you give two liberal things Republicans always fight and say gosh, it's OBAMA.

You're O fer. Try again. What did Republicans oppose they would support if it wasn't for Obama? Maybe go in your head this time, not off the top because you missed

I can remember a time when Republicans were actually the adults in the room. I used to highly admire William F. Buckley and can honestly say (with some embarrassment now) that I voted for Reagan twice and papa Bush once. Republicans weren't always ill tempered toddlers. Are you really that young or were you just too clueless in your youth to have paid any attention?

Yes, every Democrat was a Republican until 2000 when Democrats tried to steal the election and failed. There actually was no Democrat party until then. It's remarkable.

You own guns too, that's how you know gun owners are sick bastards. Another remarkable phenomenon

That probably made sense in your own mind. To everyone else, not so much.

Everyone else? How do you get your head through doorways? Are you Rush Limbaugh? Wow, the arrogance.

I'm mocking you for the lies liberals always tell, that was pretty evident to anyone with a 70+ IQ

That might have been what you were trying to do but you need to chalk another one up to your fail column for that post.

You didn't get the joke, I got it. You never do. Liberals aren't smart enough to grasp when you are being mocked

 

[kaz]

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

That's exactly right and the people who think the SS trust fund has been raided do not understand this.

Well, since it's what I said, obviously I do understand it.

That was not Gore's plan that he ever presented, so what I didn't know is what I asked you, how was Gore going to put it in a lock box?That wasn't his plan

It's still considered a trust fund.
Trust Fund Data

A trust fund with no assets, a distinction without a difference

 

[edthecynic]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

What was his "lock box" going to be since even you admit there is no money?

There was a yearly SS surplus back then in 2000, that Bush pissed away.

 

[edthecynic]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

Nothing is safe. SS bonds without Gore's lock box can be reneged on and Trump will renege on them.

The 1960 Flemming vs. Nestor Supreme Court decision said citizens don’t have a right to Social Security benefits, no matter how long they paid into the system. Congress can change the rules how they see fit, as long as they follow due process.

 

[edthecynic]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

What was his "lock box" going to be since even you admit there is no money?

A lock box would overturn Flemming V Nestor.

 

[kaz]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

What was his "lock box" going to be since even you admit there is no money?

There was a yearly SS surplus back then in 2000, that Bush pissed away.

I never blamed one party for not saving any social security money. What's your point? Yeah, they both did it. So?

 

[kaz]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

Nothing is safe. SS bonds without Gore's lock box can be reneged on and Trump will renege on them.

The 1960 Flemming vs. Nestor Supreme Court decision said citizens don’t have a right to Social Security benefits, no matter how long they paid into the system. Congress can change the rules how they see fit, as long as they follow due process.

Due process is a judicial process, not a legislative one

 

[kaz]

When did I say you oppose "payroll tax cuts?"

When you posted this:

You oppose tax cuts because the liberal lawyers said that and you're a parrot

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

What was his "lock box" going to be since even you admit there is no money?

A lock box would overturn Flemming V Nestor.

How so? You haven't supported that. Explain

 

[edthecynic]

When you posted this:

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

Nothing is safe. SS bonds without Gore's lock box can be reneged on and Trump will renege on them.

The 1960 Flemming vs. Nestor Supreme Court decision said citizens don’t have a right to Social Security benefits, no matter how long they paid into the system. Congress can change the rules how they see fit, as long as they follow due process.

Due process is a judicial process, not a legislative one

Apparently SCOTUS disagrees with you!

The court said Congress had the power to modify the rules, which it has done several times -- such as gradually raising the full retirement age over time.

 

[edthecynic]

When you posted this:

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

What was his "lock box" going to be since even you admit there is no money?

A lock box would overturn Flemming V Nestor.

How so? You haven't supported that. Explain

By requiring SS benefits be paid.

 

[JoeNormal]

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

That's exactly right and the people who think the SS trust fund has been raided do not understand this.

Well, since it's what I said, obviously I do understand it.

That was not Gore's plan that he ever presented, so what I didn't know is what I asked you, how was Gore going to put it in a lock box?That wasn't his plan

It's still considered a trust fund.
Trust Fund Data

A trust fund with no assets, a distinction without a difference

If you had a trust fund, would you put the assets in a safe deposit box or invest them?

 

[OnePercenter]

Trump Tax Plan Gives 47% Of Cuts To Richest 1%, New Analysis Finds

According to the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, Trump’s latest proposals would cut taxes by $6.2 trillion over the next decade, with 47% of all cuts in 2017 going to the top 1%.

The tax cuts that Trump is now proposing are smaller than the $9.5 trillion in cuts he floated last year, but are also more tilted in favor of the wealthy.

Under Trump’s new plan, every income group would still get tax cuts, but upper income households would receive the most relief, not only in dollars, but as a percentage of income.

Trump Tax Plan Gives 47% Of Cuts To Richest 1%, New Analysis Finds

You know Nitwit, if you started working your ass off to become part of the 1%, then you would also get the tax cut. When you sit bitching and moaning that you only get welfare, well then you deserve to be miserable.

Working your ass off makes you an employee, Hiring people to work their ass off makes you part of the 1%.

 

[kaz]

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

Nothing is safe. SS bonds without Gore's lock box can be reneged on and Trump will renege on them.

The 1960 Flemming vs. Nestor Supreme Court decision said citizens don’t have a right to Social Security benefits, no matter how long they paid into the system. Congress can change the rules how they see fit, as long as they follow due process.

Due process is a judicial process, not a legislative one

Apparently SCOTUS disagrees with you!

The court said Congress had the power to modify the rules, which it has done several times -- such as gradually raising the full retirement age over time.

The Supreme Court never said "due process" is a legislative process, you're full of shit

 

[kaz]

Ah, so you admit that Social Security isn't actually a retirement plan where we save for our future, it's just a tax and there is no trust fund? Interesting

The Gore "Lock Box" never happened after Bush stole the election, so yes there is no SS Trust Fund, just a bunch of IOUs Trump will welsh on.

What was his "lock box" going to be since even you admit there is no money?

A lock box would overturn Flemming V Nestor.

How so? You haven't supported that. Explain

By requiring SS benefits be paid.

Total non-sequitur. Saying that people can't demand SS payments doesn't mean the government can't have an actual trust fund instead of the vapor one we have now. That actually makes sense to you? The Supreme Court said the government can't actually save the money? You're a strange little man

 

[kaz]

You can't put SS in a lock box. It has to be invested. It's invested in bonds. They are safe. If they are not safe, then nothing is safe.

That's exactly right and the people who think the SS trust fund has been raided do not understand this.

Well, since it's what I said, obviously I do understand it.

That was not Gore's plan that he ever presented, so what I didn't know is what I asked you, how was Gore going to put it in a lock box?That wasn't his plan

It's still considered a trust fund.
Trust Fund Data

A trust fund with no assets, a distinction without a difference

If you had a trust fund, would you put the assets in a safe deposit box or invest them?

Invest them. What does that have to do with the discussion? Gore never proposed either since he never proposed having actual assets

 

[P@triot]

Thats not an argument, that's an assertion..and Venezuela? WTF? For fuck's sakes idiot, grow a brain cell and learn how to respond in a way that actually does address the substance. I squeeze you with some facts and all you can do is deflect.

What "substance"? Denying that every policy you advocate for has a 100% failure rate world-wide...including Venezuela recently? Keep denying reality chief, it's working so well for you. It helped you get Hitlery Clinton into the White House. Oh wait....that's right.