Two more questions for partisans

[Mac1958]

The two sides cannot even agree to work together.

Agreed, so back to my question: What is the actual goal here? Or do the two "sides" have different goals?
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I believe that it's actually quite apparent that the two sides have different goals.

Simply look at the differences in their approach to HC.

The Dems are unanimous on their goals. The Repubs are not. They've been banging the repeal drum for nearly a decade and found themselves wholly unprepared to move it when the opportunity arose.

The Dems are happy to address the issues with HC within reason, as a bipartisan effort should be. They haven't been invited to the discussion as of yet. Maybe the Republicans effort has to fail on it's own before that can happen.

I agree with you on that issue, but the same could be said overall about the Dems, particularly when it comes to the wide range of topics involving Identity Politics.
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I agree. The identity stuff had a purpose that's largely been served. It's time to get back to basics.

Holy shit, very true.
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[Mac1958]

The goal is always to beat the other side. You would expect the losing side to accept the will of the people but when the hyperbole from the left includes threats of bombing and assassination and actual attempts to murder republicans it seems that the democrat party has lost it's way.

What I'm trying to get to is what "beating" the other side actually looks like.

I'll try it from another direction: Is victory a permanent thing, or do you think this will remain cyclical?
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Leftists won't stop trying to seize power. Your binary question is either/or and life doesn't work that way. Beating the opponent means you are implementing your agenda, thought I said that before. Why ask questions if you can't understand the answers?

There is no binary question there. I'm asking about your goals, your expectations, purposes behind behaviors. There couldn't be a more open-ended question.

If you don't feel you have to capacity to provide an answer, that's fine, others here are.
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[Hutch Starskey]

I think a more important question is: who benefits when we are a divided nation? Look at history, when nations have become divided what happens? The rise of the third reich, the rise of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, the North Korean Kim regime, Chavez in Venezuela, the ayatollahs in Iran. All radical socialists who thought they knew what everyone else should believe and how everyone else should live.

What we are seeing in the USA today is straight out of the socialist playbook. Divide the nation and conquer it. History is repeating itself and we are too ignorant to even realize it as it is happening to us.

But in the last couple of years there seems to be an awakening in America, I hope its not too late.

I think a more important question is: who benefits when we are a divided nation?

You're only as divided as you choose to be.
Look beneath the layer of noise and you'll find that most people want pretty much the same things.

 

[Mac1958]

Look beneath the layer of noise and you'll find that most people want pretty much the same things.

That's an important point, but the noise is certainly getting louder and people are becoming more cemented in their ideologies. It's pretty narcissistic for us to believe that our way is The One And Only Way something can be done, but we've pretty much reached that point.
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[Hutch Starskey]

What I'm trying to get to is what that would look like. Are you going to convince a vast majority of the country to agree with you?

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?
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we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Relative to what?

 

[iceberg]

There is only so much ignorance & stupidity a person can take.

How do you convince the idiot poster that spews untruths while ignoring responses that correct them?

I do not expect to change the mind of the true dumbasses like Iceweasal. But by refuting his idiocy, a reader might become enlightened & see that lies dipsticks like Iceweasal project crap & party line agendas.

If you are coming on this site & posting crap, expect to get thrown back ion your face. It is that simple.

If you are coming here & posting racial & bigoted comments, be prepared to be called out for it.

Civility ends when the lies begin. It is beyond opinion when you ignore facts.

very true, facts are to liberals as kryptonite was to superman.

Thanks for proving my point. Feel free to point out anything I posted that is a lie.

you both proved the main point in that most people are in here to fight, not get along. to be heard, not to listen. to be understood, but fuck you if you don't.

to think only one side does this is pure bullshit.

I get along with a great many people, please speak for yourself. I damn sure will not agree with a leftist or try to make them feel better. I am not doctor Phil.

my point was the people who argue the most tend to argue in stereotypes.

now - did you or did you not stereotype things here? is - leftist... did he? he sure did.

did you both?

yes.

after that i simply don't give a shit cause it's a stupid way to "discuss" things to me.

 

[jc456]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
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so what news is there from the libs. russia russia? how fking old and boring. Give the american people something or go away. I have no more time for anonymous reporting. that dude is as fking boring as hell.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What I'm trying to get to is what that would look like. Are you going to convince a vast majority of the country to agree with you?

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

 

[jc456]

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis
This seems to be the most obvious answer. At least in my opinion.
Neither side cares how they win, just as long as they do it. It is actually admitted now. Maybe it always was, IDK.. It can be through illegal means, violence, loss of rights ANYTHING to WIN

dude, it is fk the american pulbic politics. it's been going on for fifty years since Lyndon Baines Johnson was president.

 

[jc456]

What I'm trying to get to is what that would look like. Are you going to convince a vast majority of the country to agree with you?

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

 

[TNHarley]

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis
This seems to be the most obvious answer. At least in my opinion.
Neither side cares how they win, just as long as they do it. It is actually admitted now. Maybe it always was, IDK.. It can be through illegal means, violence, loss of rights ANYTHING to WIN

dude, it is fk the american pulbic politics. it's been going on for fifty years since Lyndon Baines Johnson was president.

Im fairly young so i didnt personally experience earlier times, but from what i have gathered, it is worse, now. Just my opinion.

 

[jc456]

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis
This seems to be the most obvious answer. At least in my opinion.
Neither side cares how they win, just as long as they do it. It is actually admitted now. Maybe it always was, IDK.. It can be through illegal means, violence, loss of rights ANYTHING to WIN

dude, it is fk the american pulbic politics. it's been going on for fifty years since Lyndon Baines Johnson was president.

Im fairly young so i didnt personally experience earlier times, but from what i have gathered, it is worse, now. Just my opinion.

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

 

[Darkwind]

What I'm trying to get to is what that would look like. Are you going to convince a vast majority of the country to agree with you?

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

Although it has already begun, far too many people still think that polls reflect public opinion. In fact, polls are used to shape public opinion.

This is why so many polls showed Clinton winning by large numbers. Such polls purposely dishearten the opposition to the candidate of choice. However, like I said, people are beginning to wake up to the practice. Hence Trump was much more effective than people thought he would be. Why do you think that the media was so surprised? They were carefully influencing the election in favor of Clinton, but they failed to control all of the outlets and it got away from them.

 

[blackhawk]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

My goal is simply to give my views and opinions and if someone sees them and says hey that is something I have never thought of or considered that's great. What I have no interest in is getting into long drawn out arguments with people who just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

Perfect example of someone who has let themselves be co-opted and divided.

When you buy into extreme positions, you can only be an extremist.

 

[jc456]

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

Perfect example of someone who has let themselves be co-opted and divided.

When you buy into extreme positions, you can only be an extremist.

I agreee the MSm are assholes.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis
This seems to be the most obvious answer. At least in my opinion.
Neither side cares how they win, just as long as they do it. It is actually admitted now. Maybe it always was, IDK.. It can be through illegal means, violence, loss of rights ANYTHING to WIN

dude, it is fk the american pulbic politics. it's been going on for fifty years since Lyndon Baines Johnson was president.

Im fairly young so i didnt personally experience earlier times, but from what i have gathered, it is worse, now. Just my opinion.

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

You seem to have no stable ground to stand on.

You don't have any faith in either the media or the politicians. Is that really the fault of either, or yourself?

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

 

[jc456]

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis
This seems to be the most obvious answer. At least in my opinion.
Neither side cares how they win, just as long as they do it. It is actually admitted now. Maybe it always was, IDK.. It can be through illegal means, violence, loss of rights ANYTHING to WIN

dude, it is fk the american pulbic politics. it's been going on for fifty years since Lyndon Baines Johnson was president.

Im fairly young so i didnt personally experience earlier times, but from what i have gathered, it is worse, now. Just my opinion.

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

You seem to have no stable ground to stand on.

You don't have any faith in either the media or the politicians. Is that really the fault of either, or yourself?

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

it's the peoples fault for depending on them. I would never blame-a myself.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It would look a lot like the last election.

So having your candidate receive 46.4% of the vote qualifies as a vast majority?.

we use the electoral college to select presidents. the win there was substantial.

Of course. But that doesn't mean that the majority of country agrees with ANYTHING.
.

The majority of the country agrees on quite a lot.

The latest polling shows no one, not even a plurality of republicans want anything to do with the republicans health bill.

Although it has already begun, far too many people still think that polls reflect public opinion. In fact, polls are used to shape public opinion.

This is why so many polls showed Clinton winning by large numbers. Such polls purposely dishearten the opposition to the candidate of choice. However, like I said, people are beginning to wake up to the practice. Hence Trump was much more effective than people thought he would be. Why do you think that the media was so surprised? They were carefully influencing the election in favor of Clinton, but they failed to control all of the outlets and it got away from them.

When you discount everything, you're left with nothing, except maybe conspiracies.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis
This seems to be the most obvious answer. At least in my opinion.
Neither side cares how they win, just as long as they do it. It is actually admitted now. Maybe it always was, IDK.. It can be through illegal means, violence, loss of rights ANYTHING to WIN

dude, it is fk the american pulbic politics. it's been going on for fifty years since Lyndon Baines Johnson was president.

Im fairly young so i didnt personally experience earlier times, but from what i have gathered, it is worse, now. Just my opinion.

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

You seem to have no stable ground to stand on.

You don't have any faith in either the media or the politicians. Is that really the fault of either, or yourself?

that ain't so, they don't want the converted version that the MSM gives out as untrue. why not start this shit from a position that MSM is not the elected officials and tell them to fk off?

it just seems like it. these fk offs in DC have been doing this shit for a very long time.

it's the peoples fault for depending on them. I would never blame-a myself.

it's the peoples fault for depending on them. I would never blame-a myself.

Therein lies the problem. So you're simply helpless in finding truth?