Ukraine in NATO?!

[Lesh]

I'd call Ukraine being admitted to NATO as a commitment to peaceful resolution of conflict.
Russia needs to know that there is no winning in Ukraine and getting a fair peace deal is better than a long term war with no prospect of winning. We'll see how stupid Putin is.

Article 5 makes admitting any country engaged in war a declaration of war since it pledges support for any such nation.

That’s a big part of why Putin can not stop his attack on Ukraine.

The minute that war is over , Ukraine joins NATO

 

[AntonToo]

Article 5 makes admitting any country engaged in war a declaration of war since it pledges support for any such nation.

That’s a big part of why Putin can not stop his attack on Ukraine.

The minute that war is over , Ukraine joins NATO

Not really. Putin has no concerns about NATO attacking Russia. He knows NATO has zero interest in a nuclear war.

Biggest threat to Putin's regime is not from outside, it's from within if he ends the war on bad terms for Russia.

This is why he is extra diligent to kill off any disent and squash any viable opposition - odds of Russia coming out of Ukrainian war on good footing are slim, so he is bracing for that by doubling down on repressions and propaganda while doing what he can to line up useful idiots in the west.

 

[kyzr]

In other words yes, you just blindly trust that Trump will do what you consider to be the right thing even though there is strong evidence that his support for Ukraine is weak. Amazing what cultism does to people's brain.

1. Trump is generally right
2. Biden is generally wrong, ALWAYS WRONG according to Sec. Gates.

So who is the cultist?

 

[Lesh]

1. Trump is generally right
2. Biden is generally wrong, ALWAYS WRONG according to Sec. Gates.

So who is the cultist?

And you are generally nuts.
None of that is close to accurate

 

[AntonToo]

1. Trump is generally right
2. Biden is generally wrong, ALWAYS WRONG according to Sec. Gates.

So who is the cultist?

You.

Because you obviously operate on childish tribalism instead of using your damn head.

Trump is wishy-washy on Ukraine AT BEST and outright hostile to it's interests at worst. Your baselss hoping and wishing that he will do the right thing because someone in DoS will tell him something is just silly.

 

[jwoodie]

So do any of you still want Ukraine to join NATO?

 

[kyzr]

And you are generally nuts.
None of that is close to accurate

Robert Gates Thinks Joe Biden Hasn't Stopped Being Wrong for 40 Years

"I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,” former Defense Secretary Robert Gates says of Vice President Joe Biden in his new book coming out later this month.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[kyzr]

So do any of you still want Ukraine to join NATO?

yes

 

[kyzr]

You. Because you obviously operate on childish tribalism instead of using your damn head.

Trump is wishy-washy on Ukraine AT BEST and outright hostile to it's interests at worst. Your baseless hoping and wishing that he will do the right thing because someone in DoS will tell him something is just silly.

Trump is a better president than Biden.
That you don't get that says that you are the partisan hack.
Biden is a disaster no matter where you look.

 

[AntonToo]

Trump is a better president than Biden.
That you don't get that says that you are the partisan hack.
Biden is a disaster no matter where you look.

Don't let your mind run off to your little safe space about "better president", we are talking about Ukraine.

Biden is consistentyl solid on Ukraine. Our allies don't have to second guess him.

Trump is talking about forcing capitulation by not sending a single penny to Ukraine...and you seriously think that is BETTER?

What do you think that does to the morale of Ukranians who are in the trenches right now, putting their lives on the line for better future?

 

[Lesh]

Trump is a better president than Biden.
That you don't get that says that you are the partisan hack.
Biden is a disaster no matter where you look.

So if anyone disagrees with the above partisan hack HE is a partisan hack.

Sure

 

[Lesh]

Robert Gates Thinks Joe Biden Hasn't Stopped Being Wrong for 40 Years

"I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,” former Defense Secretary Robert Gates says of Vice President Joe Biden in his new book coming out later this month.

www.theatlantic.com

Gates… a Republican appointee and holdover in the Obama Admin said the same about Obama

Fuck him

 

[kyzr]

Don't let your mind run off to your little safe space about "better president", we are talking about Ukraine.
Biden is consistently solid on Ukraine. Our allies don't have to second guess him.
Trump is talking about forcing capitulation by not sending a single penny to Ukraine...and you seriously think that is BETTER?
What do you think that does to the morale of Ukrainians who are in the trenches right now, putting their lives on the line for better future?

1. I am a Ukraine supporter.
2. That said, if Ukraine became part of Russia, or a satellite, would that affect the US? No it would not.
3. Does borrowing $billions to give to Ukraine affect the US? Yes it does, adversely.
4. Trump said he would LOAN Ukraine money.

You need to think about the US first. Let the EU get their accounts current with NATO by helping Ukraine.

 

[kyzr]

Gates… a Republican appointee and holdover in the Obama Admin said the same about Obama

Fuck him

link
he's right

 

[kyzr]

So if anyone disagrees with the above partisan hack HE is a partisan hack.

Sure

I put up links proving I'm right

Hacks just type lies.

 

[Lesh]

link
he's right

He’s “right” because you like what he said

 

[AntonToo]

1. I am a Ukraine supporter.
2. That said, if Ukraine became part of Russia, or a satellite, would that affect the US? No it would not.
3. Does borrowing $billions to give to Ukraine affect the US? Yes it does, adversely.
4. Trump said he would LOAN Ukraine money.

You need to think about the US first. Let the EU get their accounts current with NATO by helping Ukraine.

What part of NOT A SINGLE PENNY do you not get?

You are a stand for nothing Trumper first and foremost. Carrying water for him will work the support for Ukraine right out of you just like he got you tools to compromise on most of your values.

These cultist convulsions are truly sad to watch.

 

[frigidweirdo]

1. Russia didn't attack while Trump was president, period, full stop.

2. Russia attacked while Biden was president, period, full stop.

3. Obama let ISIS expand to its fullest extent in 2015.
View attachment 916041

4. Trump eliminated the ISIS caliphate, period, full stop.

Raqqa Victory Means Trump Defeated ISIS In Months — After Years Of Excuses From Obama | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

Nine months after President Trump promised to defeat ISIS "quickly and effectively," U.S.-backed forces captured Raqqa, which until Tuesday had served as the ISIS capital.

www.investors.com

5. Trump had a major diplomatic win with the Abraham Accords. Biden has no clue how to handle the ME.

6. Trump had zero US soldiers killed in AFG for 18-months, Biden's pullout was a disaster, US allies hold Biden in CONTEMPT.

Parliament holds Joe Biden in contempt over Afghanistan

MPs and peers unite to condemn ‘dishonour’ of US president’s withdrawal and his criticism of Afghan troops left behind to face Taliban

www.telegraph.co.uk

You can type all the lies you want, but the facts show Trump was always right, and Biden is always wrong.

1) No, Russia didn't attack the Ukraine while Trump was President.

That might simply be because Russia wasn't read to attack while Trump was President. Russia was clearly preparing to attack the Ukraine while Trump was President. Also Trump talking about pulling out of NATO probably emboldened Putin.

3) Obama didn't "let ISIS expand". ISIS expanded because of lots of reasons. One of the biggest was the Iraq War, the Afghan War also had a big impact. The Arab Spring which came about from Russian and the Ukraine having a drought and not exporting food to countries which don't produce enough wheat and other such crops also had an impact.

4) Trump did not eliminate ISIS. The number of Russian troops, the number of Russian planes, the amount of bombs Russia had were something like 10 times more than the US had. The US hardly did anything to fight ISIS.

5) What did the Abraham Accords actually do? Didn't stop Hamas attacking Israel. In fact it might have pressured Hamas to attack even more. Hamas is Iran backed, having a deal with the UAE and Bahrain is like the US signing a peace treaty with Andorra.

6) Trump had more casualties in Afghanistan because he didn't pull out when he was President.

United States military casualties in the War in Afghanistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your claim of 18 months without a death is nonsense. The longest without a death was in 2016 at 6 months. Trump had three months without a death in 2020.

Trump created the conditions with his pull out treaty, for the actual pull out of Afghanistan to be problematic.

The "facts" as you call them, are you cherry picking and being unable to look at the situation with any objectivity.

Your number one and two are childish at best.

 

[kyzr]

What part of NOT A SINGLE PENNY do you not get?
You are a stand for nothing Trumper first and foremost. Carrying water for him will work the support for Ukraine right out of you just like he got you tools to compromise on most of your values. These cultist convulsions are truly sad to watch.

1. Trump can say anything to get the EU deadbeats to pay up, like Putin can do whatever he wants with deadbeats.
2. What if the US stops military aid to Ukraine, that doesn't mean the EU needs to stop.
3. Trump's values are fine, democrats have no values.
4. You did not say what happens if Ukraine falls to Russia.

 

[kyzr]

1) No, Russia didn't attack the Ukraine while Trump was President. That might simply be because Russia wasn't read to attack while Trump was President. Russia was clearly preparing to attack the Ukraine while Trump was President. Also Trump talking about pulling out of NATO probably emboldened Putin.

3) Obama didn't "let ISIS expand". ISIS expanded because of lots of reasons. One of the biggest was the Iraq War, the Afghan War also had a big impact. The Arab Spring which came about from Russian and the Ukraine having a drought and not exporting food to countries which don't produce enough wheat and other such crops also had an impact. Trump did not eliminate ISIS. The number of Russian troops, the number of Russian planes, the amount of bombs Russia had were something like 10 times more than the US had. The US hardly did anything to fight ISIS.

5) What did the Abraham Accords actually do? Didn't stop Hamas attacking Israel. In fact it might have pressured Hamas to attack even more. Hamas is Iran backed, having a deal with the UAE and Bahrain is like the US signing a peace treaty with Andorra.

6) Trump had more casualties in Afghanistan because he didn't pull out when he was President. Your claim of 18 months without a death is nonsense. The longest without a death was in 2016 at 6 months. Trump had three months without a death in 2020.
Trump created the conditions with his pull out treaty, for the actual pull out of Afghanistan to be problematic.The "facts" as you call them, are you cherry picking and being unable to look at the situation with any objectivity.Your number one and two are childish at best.

1. Trump's tough talk strengthened NATO, so says NATO. Putin gave Biden months of warning, even I knew the attack was coming.

Secretary General thanks President Trump for his commitment to NATO

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg thanked US President Donald Trump for his strong leadership and commitment to the Alliance in a meeting at the White House on Thursday (14 November 2019). Mr. Stoltenberg highlighted rising defence investment across European Allies and Canada, amounting to...

www.nato.int

3. I gave you the link and map of the ISIS Caliphate under Obama. Trump and his coalition with the Kurds defeated ISIS.
See my post #98.

5. Abraham Accords was a big step in the right direction.

6. Trump was not held in CONTEMPT by US allies. Biden was.

Fact check: Trump administration officials try to rewrite their own Afghanistan history

There's been no shortage of fact-based criticism aimed at the Biden administration's handling of the US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

www.cnn.com

“In the past 18 months, the U.S. has not suffered a single combat casualty there. By the time we left office, the Afghan government and the Taliban each controlled their respective territories, neither was mounting major offensives, and America had only 2,500 U.S. troops in the country—the smallest military presence since the war began in 2001,” Pence wrote.


7. Biden held in CONTEMPT by US allies. Gates is right, Biden is always wrong. Obama is right, "never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up"

UK Parliament Makes Unprecedented Decision to Hold Biden in Contempt

Members of the UK parliament from across the political spectrum have decided to hold President Biden in contempt for his bungled withdrawal.

www.westernjournal.com