Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[Red Front]

Well yes, that is called idolatry. That is something all humans must strive to not do.

We will always be flawed, until we are remade. God gave us a plan to be redeemed. You can either accept it, or whine like a child and demand He comes up with a new plan just for you.

How do we know that's god's plan and not the stupid plan of pathetic religious punks like"theHawk"? How do you know that this biblical god of yours exists? Where did this "plan" come from? Your "holy book"? Your church/circus? You're an infantile clown, unable to come to terms with reality, so you invent a god with a "plan" to "save you". Why should anyone believe you?

 

[Red Front]

Wrong. I have the Bible, which is God’s word.

It's "God's Word", because you say it is? Or maybe it's because the bible says it's gods word, hence the bible is god's word? WOW, that's so impressive. Your bible says it's god's word, so it must be god's word. Amazing how intelligent and rational you are.

 

[SweetSue92]

I return to the primary sources which is the intent of the original author, in the original language, to the original audience. Some of that is even before Church Fathers. An example is "wrath of God.' While today the English version translates into great anger, the original Hebrew and Greek speak of other things. Hebrew is a language of pictures--and it also acknowledges God's emotions are not human emotions. When bad things happen, it signifies it is outside the ways of God. The root or 'wrath' in ancient Greek signifies great emotion of any kind. An example might be great compassion that stirs one to act.

Once again, Sue, I have no issues with anyone who believes God was filled with such great anger and wrath

Has nothing to do with "anger" or punishment in the way you seem to render it.

It has to do with two immutable attributes of God:

Perfectly Holy
Perfectly Just

That's first. Second, Jesus IS the Covenant. It's not some journey you take. It's Jesus. That's it.

 

[SweetSue92]

Sigh. John wrote the Book of Revelation in Apocalyptic literary form for the people and their suffering in his own time--i.e., first century Christians. As always, the truths of scripture are timeless and today, people who are being persecuted for their faith can relate to those who went through persecution in an earlier age.

What happens when someone suffers persecution for their faith? Worldly goods and services are taken from them. They are imprisoned, tortured, killed. What happens to them has a profound effect on their dependents.

So, just nice stories written to cheer people up.

I could watch documentaries for that, or reality tv, or any myriad of things. If this is not the very Word of God, pertinent, meaningful to people of all times, why should I bother?

Why would anyone?

 

[SweetSue92]

It ain't so bad

That's because you have Common Grace here. That means, since it's not the end yet, you benefit from the gifts of God even though you apparently despise Him. Food. Shelter. Water. Health. Laughter. Light. Etc. etc. etc.

The Bible says "Every good and perfect gift is from above". --James 1:17

Hell is an absence of God, and thus, and absence of all of those common gifts. A frightening prospect.

 

[SweetSue92]

Not all sins are equal. Considering that homosexuality didn't even make the top ten list, Christians are sure hung up on that particular sin

That's because the culture demands we endorse AND CELEBRATE it.

If the culture demanded we endorse and celebrate adultery, or theft, or whatever--you'd hear that from us too.

 

[SweetSue92]

He could make an appearance

As C.S. Lewis said, "When the author walks on stage the play is over"

Is that what you want? Really?

Because next up is the Judgment

 

[Red Front]

Has nothing to do with "anger" or punishment in the way you seem to render it.

It has to do with two immutable attributes of God:

Perfectly Holy
Perfectly Just

That's first. Second, Jesus IS the Covenant. It's not some journey you take. It's Jesus. That's it.

Being "perfectly holy" and "perfectly just" = Must kill an innocent person to forgive others, lest he tortures them in hell for all eternity.

 

[SweetSue92]

Being "perfectly holy" and "perfectly just" = Must kill an innocent person to forgive others, lest he tortures them in hell for all eternity.

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If you haven't noticed, I'm not engaging with you. A few weeks ago, you were a "Christian". Now you're here dogging it. Who knows what you'll be next week.

 

[Red Front]

That's because you have Common Grace here. That means, since it's not the end yet, you benefit from the gifts of God even though you apparently despise Him. Food. Shelter. Water. Health. Laughter. Light. Etc. etc. etc.

The Bible says "Every good and perfect gift is from above". --James 1:17

Hell is an absence of God, and thus, and absence of all of those common gifts. A frightening prospect.

We despise your stupid version and opinion of "GOD", not God himself, assuming he actually exists.

Food, shelter, and water are material resources attained through human labor.

Laughter is a physiological and psychological response characterized by the rhythmic and vocal expression of amusement, joy, or social bonding. It usually occurs as a reaction to stimuli such as humor, tickling, or other forms of social interaction.

Your sadistic god's eternal torture chamber, where he keeps people alive in a state of torment forever, i.e. HELL, is a figment of the human mind. It's also debatable whether the ancient Israelites actually believed in such a place.

 

[Red Front]

If you haven't noticed, I'm not engaging with you. A few weeks ago, you were a "Christian". Now you're here dogging it. Who knows what you'll be next week.

You're engaging me right now, and I don't respond to your claptrap for your sake, so I could care less if you ignore me. I was never a Christian in the traditional sense and whatever I was in the past is irrelevant. Arguments stand or fall on their own merits and apparently, you don't have much of an argument.

 

[Red Front]

SourSue92 has really bad arguments in defense of her religious fantasies, so since she's unable to refute my objections, she attacks me personally, in a pathetic attempt to discredit my objections. That's a logical fallacy called "ad hominem" where you essentially say "You're this and that, hence your argument is wrong". SourSue is a mainstream Evangelical, Trinitarian "Christian", who rejects the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons as genuine Christians. My former "Christian" beliefs (about six months ago), were actually even more "heretical" than that of the JWs and Mormons because I held that the God of the Israelites, YHWH, wasn't an individual person, but rather all of the hosts of heaven. The angels as a society = YHWH.

My cosmology and theology was this:

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Infused with Marxism. How are the above beliefs "Christian"? It's only Christian when SourSue92's bad theology and thinking are being challenged by an atheist like me who she doesn't like. Don't be deceived by her disingenuous religious gibberish and gaslighting. None of her religious beliefs can hold up to scrutiny and she knows it.

 

[Blues Man]

I suppose so. You just have to choose what to believe.

Either God is real or not.

If I am wrong, then nothing happens when I die.

If you are wrong, you spend quite a while in hellfire, only to experience a second death permanently.

You have to prove what is real and no one that tells me I should worship a god has proven that gods exist

And if you're wrong you wasted a lot of time and money on a religion

I don't think worshiping a god because you are afraid is a good reason. Just like I don't think worshiping a god to get a reward is a good idea

Religions exploit the fear and greed of people.

 

[Red Front]

You have to prove what is real and no one that tells me I should worship a god has proven that gods exist

And if you're wrong you wasted a lot of time and money on a religion

I don't think worshiping a god because you are afraid is a good reason. Just like I don't think worshiping a god to get a reward is a good idea

Religions exploit the fear and greed of people.

It's all fear-based.

 

[Arlette]

That's because the culture demands we endorse AND CELEBRATE it.

If the culture demanded we endorse and celebrate adultery, or theft, or whatever--you'd hear that from us too.

Your God made mistakes

 

[Blues Man]

It's all fear-based.

They want their eternal rewards so there is greed involved too

 

[sparky]

How do you know that this biblical god of yours exists?

hence the bible is god's word?

Your bible says it's god's word, so it must be god's word.

'God' never spoke a single word



~S~

 

[buttercup]

You have to prove what is real and no one that tells me I should worship a god has proven that gods exist

And if you're wrong you wasted a lot of time and money on a religion

I don't think worshiping a god because you are afraid is a good reason. Just like I don't think worshiping a god to get a reward is a good idea

Religions exploit the fear and greed of people.

It's all fear-based.

Your God made mistakes

They want their eternal rewards so there is greed involved too

 

[Blues Man]

I'm not the one who brought up punishments for not worshiping a god.

 

[sparky]

the 'word of God' was translated (celestial>terrestrial) by his son

for the next 30 years it was further translated by his followers (apostles) , who splintered off in various directions

note that many met the same fate as God's son Jesus did , hence their careful take on it all......( domestic terrorism is nothing new )

after they left their mortal coil , nothing was put on paper for roughly 3 centuries.......the 'word of God' became a campfire scenario among sheepherders

Finally, when Rome grew bored of feeding Christians to lions , Emperor Constantine formed the council of Nicaea

the 'word of God' endured a political edit of those assimilating christianity (Romans being the original Borg) , adding and deleting whatever fit their agendas (how many books are missing?)

Finally , when the catholic hierarchy came to fruition the medieval insurrectionists and crusaders used the 'word of God' as a bludgeon for their own earthy gains

Modern Catholicism displacing the 'word of God' for its own agenda is no different

So when someone says to you it's the 'word of God' , know that it's be had two millennia of terrestrial filtering to get to your ear

~S~