Unsealed Trump Search Warrant - Trump had classified Documents

[Rigby5]

They apply to all persons in the united states.


What became law was S. 139... which extended Section 702 for another five years.

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

With Trump’s signing S. 139 into law, that became: “ … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.” And with that, it became a felony.

Wrong.
Presidents, including ex-presidents, are the highest authority over classified documents, so then can do whatever they want with them.

If a president or ex-president wants to give Moscow all our nuclear secrets for example, it would not be a violation of any security act.
You would instead have to look for a law the president did not have binding authority over, like treason or something above the president.

Remember that if a document can be classified by someone, it can then also be declassified by someone.
The president gets total discretion, and that include ex-presidents as well.
The only laws that apply would be something intrinsic, like treason, not something arbitrary, like classification.

 

[Rigby5]

Why are you always lying? The National Archives destroys NOTHING.

Hear me NOTHING.

They are an official classified information repository of the United States Government. Just like the Pentagon, or CIA.

I just read it, and they say they destroy 97% of what is given to them.
That is because they are totally unable to contain classified documents, so have to destroy them by law.

The purpose of the Pentagon and CIA is to hide secure things.
The purpose of the National Archives is to allow public access to what they have.
So they are totally and completely different.

{... The National Archives governs federal records and information policy for the executive branch and preserves and makes available the records of the judicial and legislative branches. Agencies in the executive branch are required by the Federal Records Act to follow approved records schedules. All records maintained by the executive branch must be properly identified by NARA and authorized for eventual destruction or appraised to be of permanent historical or legal value to be preserved and made available to the public. Only 2 to 3 percent of records created by the federal government are deemed to be of permanent value. ...}

 

[meaner gene]

That’s accurate as hell. Trump tweeted that he was declassifying “everything related to Crossfire Hurricane “ and Meadows walked that back the next day

Thank you for an actual example of the president "declassifying" a whole class of documents, but they were never declassified because of the people under him failing to carry out the process.

 

[WEATHER53]

My bad.
I'm so used to messaging with folks with pretty fair attention spans.
But not all possess such. I'm aware.
So your pleading to shorten up, maybe use simpler words....well, it resonates.
It is not my avatar's intention to discombobulate you, poster Weather53.

ps....advice still is offered: Don't read 'em if you get lost in the language or the concepts.

Best wishes.


ps.....words are shorter, sentences are less complex, ideas basic.....over on GreatAwakening.win.
Or any of the Reddit or 4chan forums.
Good luck.

Also, quit the British Cricket announcer mode of fake speaking

 

[Rigby5]

The affidavit swears to the crime, under penalty of perjury. If the person lied, they could be prosecuted for perjury, and the warrant invalidated.

But in this case, everything in the warrant application was verified TRUE, by the search.

You are talking about a case where the search doesn't turn up what they're looking for, but find some other crime.

That wasn't this case.

The search does not at all verify whether or not the person testifying for the search warrant was lying or not.

If you do not like your neighbor and claim to the police they are smoking pot, if the search then finds pot, it is still an illegal search and the neighbor can not be prosecuted.
Does not matter if the find matches the search warrant or not.

But I still see no justification for the search warrant in this case yet.
About the only way Trump could have violated the law is if he took all copies of something, so that it would no longer be available to later presidents.

 

[WEATHER53]

Actually in this case, and all warrant cases, it does. The informant swears an affidavit under penalty of perjury that the facts he gives are true.

If the documents weren't there, he could be prosecuted for perjury.

The only way of finding out if the informant was telling the truth or lying, is by the result of the search.

In America we don’t work from suspicion and not evidence and then claim victory when we stumble upon what we felt might be there.
It’s stunning that you can’t comprehend that results are tainted when the method of uncovering is impermissible.

 

[Rigby5]

Thank you for an actual example of the president "declassifying" a whole class of documents, but they were never declassified because of the people under him failing to carry out the process.

But you seem to miss the point that NOTHING is restricted from the president, and that includes after they become ex-president, for those things seen while president.

 

[meaner gene]

Wrong.
The National Archies are NOT to ever get anything classified, because anything given to them automatically becomes public.

I can't make it any plainer That is 100% pure bullshit. This is from the national archives explaining what they do.

Frequently Asked Questions

New to ISOO? This page contains answers to some of the questions most frequently asked by security professionals. If you have a question that is not listed here please visit our individual programs or Contact Us. Guidance listed on this page pertains only to Federal agencies and applicable...

www.archives.gov

What if a member of the public or a non-governmental archives finds what looks like classified national security information in their collections?

CONFIDENTIAL materials may be sent via U.S. Postal Service certified, first class, express, or registered mail or government courier service.

SECRET materials may ONLY be sent via U.S. Postal Service express or registered mail or government courier service.

TOP SECRET materials may NOT be sent via U.S. mail and may only be transmitted by authorized government courier service. ISOO can make the necessary arrangements on your institution’s behalf.

ISOO staff will give more detailed instructions regarding the shipment of classified records

 

[Rigby5]

Trump was not the legal owner. He was no longer president, and by the PRA the ownership was automatically transferred to the National Archives.

Second, the National Archives in retrieving the first 15 boxes of classified documents, showed that they were not property secured.

That two strikes right there.

It is totally up to Trump what he wants as personal vs destined for National Archives.
The whole point of the National Archies, if you bothered reading up on them, is retaining historical documents with things of significance, like signatures.
The National Archives is not allowed any classified documents at all, and all personal communications are the property of the person who created them, and at their discretion.

 

[Rigby5]

I can't make it any plainer That is 100% pure bullshit. This is from the national archives explaining what they do.

Frequently Asked Questions

New to ISOO? This page contains answers to some of the questions most frequently asked by security professionals. If you have a question that is not listed here please visit our individual programs or Contact Us. Guidance listed on this page pertains only to Federal agencies and applicable...

www.archives.gov

What if a member of the public or a non-governmental archives finds what looks like classified national security information in their collections?

CONFIDENTIAL materials may be sent via U.S. Postal Service certified, first class, express, or registered mail or government courier service.

SECRET materials may ONLY be sent via U.S. Postal Service express or registered mail or government courier service.

TOP SECRET materials may NOT be sent via U.S. mail and may only be transmitted by authorized government courier service. ISOO can make the necessary arrangements on your institution’s behalf.

ISOO staff will give more detailed instructions regarding the shipment of classified records

That shows you do not at all understand.
The point of shipping classified documents to the National Archies, is so they can be destroyed.
The National Archies do not and can not retain classified documents.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I want him free to run. He’s the least electable candidate there is.

After 2000 and 2016, most have lost faith in the political process – and appropriately so.

Never underestimate the dishonesty of Republicans; never underestimate the ignorance and stupidity of the American voter.

 

[rightwinger]

Hey fuckwad, it turns out the President has the authority to declassify documents.

He does?

Then let’s have Fat Donnie show us the Documentation where he declassified that information

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Taking and refusing to return those documents is pretty serious stuff.

…as in illegal – whether de-classified or not.

 

[WEATHER53]

It is totally up to Trump what he wants as personal vs destined for National Archives.
The whole point of the National Archies, if you bothered reading up on them, is retaining historical documents with things of significance, like signatures.
The National Archives is not allowed any classified documents at all, and all personal communications are the property of the person who created them, and at their discretion.

So does this means the mentioning of the National
Archives has been false all along?

 

[Rigby5]

Trump changed the rules about having illegal Classified information and made it a Felony?

View attachment 682034

But it is not illegal for Trump, as ex-president, to have any document given to him while president.

 

[meaner gene]

I just read it, and they say they destroy 97% of what is given to them.

All records maintained by the executive branch must be properly identified by NARA and authorized for eventual destruction or appraised to be of permanent historical or legal value to be preserved and made available to the public. Only 2 to 3 percent of records created by the federal government are deemed to be of permanent value. ...}

Please read your own citation (edited for clarity)
That's 3% of all federal records, such as from the EPA, and all other federal agency. But the papers of the president are covered by the presidential records act, which preserves nearly 100% of presidential documents, which it puts into a presidential library.

 

[Rigby5]

…as in illegal – whether de-classified or not.

Wrong.
They are essentially Trump's personal property, and totally under his jurisdiction, to do with as he pleases.
Hillary was not president, so never had that authority.

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong.
Presidents, including ex-presidents, are the highest authority over classified documents, so then can do whatever they want with them.

If a president or ex-president wants to give Moscow all our nuclear secrets for example, it would not be a violation of any security act.
You would instead have to look for a law the president did not have binding authority over, like treason or something above the president.

Remember that if a document can be classified by someone, it can then also be declassified by someone.
The president gets total discretion, and that include ex-presidents as well.
The only laws that apply would be something intrinsic, like treason, not something arbitrary, like classification.

You are just making shit up as you go along

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong.
They are essentially Trump's personal property, and totally under his jurisdiction, to do with as he pleases.
Hillary was not president, so never had that authority.

Wrong again

The Nations Secrets are not his personal property and he must protect them like anyone else

 

[Rigby5]

So does this means the mentioning of the National
Archives has been false all along?

Depends on what the documents at Mara Largo were and what Trump was going to do with them?
If they were personal or classified, then they do NOT go to the National Archives.
And if some were intended for the National Archives, it is not wrong to take them to Mara Largo first, in order to sort them.

I would need to know more.