Voter ID Has Not Stopped Fraud

[TemplarKormac]

Thank you for proving me correct on the willful blindness. Awesome! It is fascinating to observe.



Nope. That has been my WHOLE point. It is the Voter ID proponents who made that claim, not me.



This is the moving of the goalposts of which I just spoke.

There are already rules on the books against voter fraud, so this argument is bogus.

Face it. Voter ID is a catastrophic failure. It does not stop all that fraud Voter ID proponents keep said it would.

Voter ID is not a catastrophic failure. I don't need a reading comprehension class to see through your arguments. For instance, out of almost 9 million people in Georgia, there have been only 80 known cases of so-called voter fraud since the year 2000. That covers the 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012 presidential and midterm elections. In South Dakota, there are no known cases of voter fraud that have been reported in 13 years. In Florida there have been only 17 such cases in the past decade or so. See where I'm going with this?

You're lying through your teeth. While you may be right that Voter ID is pointless to some degree, it is a necessary precaution. And come to think of it, if it were such a failure, then you would see more cases of voter fraud than less.

Voter ID laws: A state-by-state map reveals how much voter fraud there is in the United States?almost none. - Slate Magazine

Shut the fuck up, g5. We are well past your attempts to spin the issue.

Wow. You are making my case for me, and you don't even know it.

As I frequently say, Voter ID is a solution in search of a problem. Thanks for showing Voter ID is not justified by the small amount of fraud which occurs.

What you seem to be missing is that Voter ID proponents claim the fraud which does exist would be STOPPED by Voter ID.

It isn't.

STOP!

You just went on to say that there exists RAMPANT voter fraud DESPITE Voter ID laws. Thank you for contradicting yourself, idiot.

 

[TemplarKormac]

G5000 is sooo far left he makes CHRISSY BOY Matthews look mainstream.. He tries to post BS flowery crap in the general section as if we're all dumb enough to buy in to his charade..

This is all you are capable of contributing. Nothing on point. As usual.

Voter ID failed. It did not stop all that absentee ballot fraud, poll worker fraud, or multiple precinct voting fraud Voter ID proponents continuously cite as evidence we need Voter ID. It did not stop any of that fraud which they continue to claim it will.

Catastrophic failure.

The party is infected with airheads like yourself. No longer the party of big ideas, it is the party of failure.

I cite this post as an example. You contradicted yourself just now. I contend there isn't any, but you contend there's more, and therefore Voter ID has failed. It can't fail if there is no voter fraud, dumbass. Wait, did you just call me an airhead? Sigh, more contrivance on your part. Not to mention more evidence to prove how weak this argument and you as a person are.

 

[g5000]

The entire argument is moot based upon this single fact: VOTING IS NOT A RIGHT and not guaranteed.. so go whine some place else, pump your weenie to your Zombie crowds of mushed brain feces..

The "voting is not a right" argument is a non sequitur. You know very well how often you Voter ID proponents have cited cases of absentee voter fraud and poll worker fraud and multiple precinct fraud as proof we need Voter ID. Too late to pretend now. Voter ID proponents argue those types of voter fraud would be stopped by Voter ID.

I have just proven all that not to be true.

And now the great willful blinding and goalpost moving begins.

 

[auditor0007]

It seems the faux right wing neocon propaganda machine has given the rubes marching orders to create a lot of topics about Voter ID in the past few days.

None of the fools has been able to clear the simplest of hurdles. To wit, prove that Voter ID is the only means to stop or prevent the kind of voter fraud which occurs.

It seems to me a true conservative would not just start clamoring for more government regulations and intrusions into our lives without DEMANDING evidence it is necessary and will work.

In this case, they are really falling down on the job and should turn in their conservative credentials for allowing themselves to be led by the nose to call for bigger government and programs paid for out of the taxpayers pockets.

The goal, ladies and gentlemen, is to reduce voter turnout by whatever means necessary. Whether it is by reducing early voting, or reducing access to the polls by demanding particular forms of ID. This is because the GOP does not do well in elections when there is high voter turnout.


As I stated in most of these Voter ID topics, boy are you guys going to be surprised when voter fraud continues to happen in Voter ID states.

So let's get down to it, shall we?

Florida requires a photo ID to vote. Does that stop fraud? Nope.

FEMA official charged in voter fraud case

According to the charging affidavit, Pawlowski signed a voter registration form in which he reported his legal address in St. Augustine Beach and voted by absentee ballot in the general election in November 2010, the presidential primary in January 2012, and the general election last November.

Voter ID never even slowed this guy down!


Top staffer for Florida Democratic Rep. Garcia resigns amid voting fraud probe

Authorities are investigating a sophisticated scheme to manipulate last year's primary elections by submitting hundreds of fraudulent absentee-ballot requests.

I want you to notice that is a Fox News story.

Fox News has been one of the leading propagandists for Voter ID. Isn't it funny they are not pointing out the failure of Voter ID to prevent or stop voter fraud?

Hmmmmm...



Let's go to South Dakota which has one of the strictest Voter ID laws in the country.

Mitchell man arrested on charge of voter fraud

The Daily Republic reports that Craig Guymon was arrested on charges of voter fraud. Police say Guymon voted Tuesday morning at the Mitchell Career and Technical Education Academy and later returned an absentee ballot to the Davison Auditor's Office.

Let's move on to Georgia, which also has some of the oldest and strictest voter ID laws in the country, shall we?

12 former officials indicted for voter fraud

12 former Brooks County officials were indicted for voter fraud. The suspects are accused of illegally helping people vote by absentee ballot.

I could go on all day with more examples from all around the country in states that have photo ID laws.

And the frauds will continue. Anyone with a lick of common sense can see the complete ineffectiveness of Voter ID for the kind of ACTUAL fraud which occurs.

In-person voter fraud is as rare as hen's teeth. Most fraud is not slowed down in the slightest by Voter ID.

Is Fox News or the Washington Times or Rush Limbaugh or CNS News or Breitbart or the Daily Caller or Glenn Beck or Alex Jones reporting on the catastropic failure of Voter ID to prevent fraud? Are they devoting as much air and print time to this fact as they do to bloviate for Voter ID?

Hmmmm...

While we see anecdotal evidence of voter fraud, it is one person here and one person there, and the people who commit this fraud are Dems, Republicans, and Independents. What has not been shown to be true in any form is voter fraud on a large scale.

The right can't seem to come up with any real solutions to anything, so they continue to bring up these side issues to convince us that the sky is falling. This is supposed to bring others around to their way of thinking. So far it's been a major fail.

 

[g5000]

G5000 is sooo far left he makes CHRISSY BOY Matthews look mainstream.. He tries to post BS flowery crap in the general section as if we're all dumb enough to buy in to his charade..

This is all you are capable of contributing. Nothing on point. As usual.

Voter ID failed. It did not stop all that absentee ballot fraud, poll worker fraud, or multiple precinct voting fraud Voter ID proponents continuously cite as evidence we need Voter ID. It did not stop any of that fraud which they continue to claim it will.

Catastrophic failure.

The party is infected with airheads like yourself. No longer the party of big ideas, it is the party of failure.

I cite this post as an example. You contradicted yourself just now. I contend there isn't any, but you contend there's more, and therefore Voter ID has failed. It can't fail if there is no voter fraud, dumbass. Wait, did you just call me an airhead? Sigh, more contrivance on your part. Not to mention more evidence to prove how weak this argument and you as a person are.

You did not contend there is no fraud. You actually cited cases!

Are you schizophrenic?

 

[g5000]

While we see anecdotal evidence of voter fraud, it is one person here and one person there, and the people who commit this fraud are Dems, Republicans, and Independents. What has not been shown to be true in any form is voter fraud on a large scale.

The right can't seem to come up with any real solutions to anything, so they continue to bring up these side issues to convince us that the sky is falling. This is supposed to bring others around to their way of thinking. So far it's been a major fail.

The delusion is perpetrated that millions of illegal aliens are voting using eligible citizens names. No evidence is provided for this. But this fantasy is also used as justification for showing your ID at the voting booth.

They do not provide evidence this is going on because such fraud is literally impossible on a large scale.

It's fear mongering. And people are swallowing it without question.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Let G5000 talk to himself.. that's basically what he does anyhow.. No fucking body listens to him but the rabid Progressive Kook Brigade.

 

[g5000]

I'm chuckling right now that Templar is now saying there just wasn't a lot of voter fraud going on.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The entire argument is moot based upon this single fact: VOTING IS NOT A RIGHT and not guaranteed.. so go whine some place else, pump your weenie to your Zombie crowds of mushed brain feces..

The "voting is not a right" argument is a non sequitur. You know very well how often you Voter ID proponents have cited cases of absentee voter fraud and poll worker fraud and multiple precinct fraud as proof we need Voter ID. Too late to pretend now. Voter ID proponents argue those types of voter fraud would be stopped by Voter ID.

I have just proven all that not to be true.

And now the great willful blinding and goalpost moving begins.

I can't help but laugh at you now. Your "Voter ID has failed" argument is a non sequitur, since for it to be a failure of any kind, there must exist evidence to the contrary which disproves the need for it, say increased instances of voter fraud despite its implementation. I made the converse argument, that there is little need for it since there hardly exists any. But hold on, it still exists even in miniscule amounts.

It's like a virus which starts out small, but if left untreated could grow bigger and more deadly. Voter ID is an attempt to "nip it in the bud" so to speak. Yes, the rate at which it occurs now is small, but if we go on thinking that, it will destroy the electoral system as we know it. This false sense of security people have lulled themselves into is dangerous. What I did was completely reverse your argument on itself.

Only someone with such a one dimensional mind would conjure up a story like this. Thank you for giving my brain the exercise it needed today.

 

[g5000]

Let G5000 talk to himself.. that's basically what he does anyhow.. No fucking body listens to him but the rabid Progressive Kook Brigade.

I did say yesterday that when you all figured out Voter ID was ineffective at stopping all the fraud you said it would, you would cause yourselves to become deaf and blind.

And here you go!

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm chuckling right now that Templar is now saying there just wasn't a lot of voter fraud going on.

I'm chuckling at the fact you insisted there was rampant voter fraud despite Voter ID laws being implemented.

Say what now? Please, g5. Give up. You lost. You have nothing left but insults.

 

[g5000]

I'm chuckling right now that Templar is now saying there just wasn't a lot of voter fraud going on.

I'm chuckling at the fact you insisted there was rampant voter fraud despite Voter ID laws being implemented.

Nope. I did not say or imply fraud was rampant. Voter ID proponents say that. And you know they do!

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm chuckling right now that Templar is now saying there just wasn't a lot of voter fraud going on.

I'm chuckling at the fact you insisted there was rampant voter fraud despite Voter ID laws being implemented.

Nope. I did not say or imply fraud was rampant. Voter ID proponents say that. And you know they do!

I just cited a post in which you did. Let's review shall we? You acknowledged the fact that there was fraud going on. The boldface indicates emphasis, so it should be deduced that you believe there is a large amount of it going on. The very title of your thread speaks to that fact.

There are real live cases of fraud with absentee ballots.

Not a peep from the right wing about those..

Really.. there have been PLENTY of us with concerns about the misuse of absentee ballots..


But nice try, idiot

Yes, you fools have cited absentee ballot fraud as proof we need Voter ID!

As I have said time and time again, and just proved in the OP, Voter ID does not prevent absentee ballot fraud.

Wake up!

Thank you for playing, g5, but I have more important things to take care of.

See ya.

 

[g5000]

I'm chuckling at the fact you insisted there was rampant voter fraud despite Voter ID laws being implemented.

Nope. I did not say or imply fraud was rampant. Voter ID proponents say that. And you know they do!

I just cited a post in which you did. Let's review shall we? You acknowledged the fact that there was fraud going on. The boldface indicates emphasis, so it should be deduced that you believe there is a large amount of it going on. The very title of your thread speaks to that fact.

This is very amusing.

In every topic about Voter ID I have participated in, I have asked repeated questions about the types of fraud that are frequently cited by Voter ID proponents. I ask:

How will voter ID stop absentee voter fraud?

How will voter ID stop poll worker fraud?

How will voter ID stop someone from voting in more than one precinct?

Because they believe Voter ID will stop the frauds they keep citing, my questions do not penetrate. Instead, they then hear a voice in their head which tells them I believe there is NO fraud going on!

So this is the height of hilarity you now accuse me of saying there is rampant fraud.

Once again, what I am actually saying is not penetrating the schizophrenic minds of dullards.

I am saying the same exact thing I have been saying all along. That Voter ID will not and does not prevent or stop the various types of fraud Voter ID proponents constantly cite.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Laws against murder don't do a lot to prevent murders. They're still a pretty good idea, though.

Apparently, the powers that be among the pseudo-intellectual left have ordered the faithful to go forth and spew a stupid false dilemma argument.

 

[OKTexas]

It's really simple, voter fraud exist, voter ID is one tool of many to aid in the detection and prevention of fraud. Anyone who disputes that fact is just ignorant.

 

[The T]

And NOTE that the Jackass OP is focusing on the SOUTH...

Hmm...wonder why? NOTE to the OP?

WE aren't like that any longer WE got RID of the DEMOCRATS of old.

Got it sport?

 

[kwc57]

I posed a question to those so opposed to voter I.D. a day or so ago on a thread similar to this and got no response so let's try again today. Do those who claim voter I.D.will suppress the minority vote have any facts or evidence to support this claim? Again opinions are not facts or evidence.

I have also asked repeatedly for someone to provide a cut and paste from the Constitution where we are guaranteed a "right to vote" and no one will respond.

There isn't. It just says that any AMERICAN CITIZEN shall be granted the right to vote, the 14th and 15th Amendments make sure of that.

Voting rights in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States Constitution, in Article VI, section 3, states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The Constitution, however, leaves the determination of voting qualifications to the individual states. Over time, the federal role in elections has increased through amendments to the Constitution and enacted legislation, such as the Voting Rights Act of 1965.[3] At least four of the fifteen post-Civil War constitutional amendments were ratified specifically to extend voting rights to different groups of citizens. These extensions state that voting rights cannot be denied or abridged based on the following:

• Birth - "All persons born or naturalized" "are citizens" of the U.S. and the U.S. State where they reside (14th Amendment, 1868)
• "Race, color, or previous condition of servitude" - (15th Amendment, 1870)
• "On account of sex" - (19th Amendment, 1920)
• In Washington, D.C., presidential elections (23rd Amendment, 1961)
• (For federal elections) "By reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" - (24th Amendment, 1964)
• (For state elections) Taxes - (Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, 383 U.S. 663 (1966))
• "Who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age" (26th Amendment, 1971).
• In addition, the 17th Amendment provided for the direct election of United States Senators.

The "right to vote" is not explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution except in the above referenced amendments, and only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons.

For example, many states require eligible citizens to register to vote a set number of days prior to the election in order to vote. More controversial restrictions include those laws that prohibit convicted felons from voting or, as seen in Bush v. Gore, disputes as to what rules should apply in counting or recounting ballots [4]

 

[kwc57]

Laws against murder don't do a lot to prevent murders. They're still a pretty good idea, though.

Apparently, the powers that be among the pseudo-intellectual left have ordered the faithful to go forth and spew a stupid false dilemma argument.

BOOM, there it is!

 

[g5000]

Laws against murder don't do a lot to prevent murders. They're still a pretty good idea, though.

False analogy. No one claims laws against murder will stop murder. The Voter ID schizos claim Voter ID WILL stop absentee ballot fraud, poll worker fraud, and voting in multiple precincts.

It won't and isn't.