Was the right, right all along about ISIS?

[Camp]

So if you have three monster terrorist groups like al Nusra, al Qaeda and ISIS that are fighting a terrorist regime that supports a huge terrorist group like Hezbollah, who do you bomb? Won't bombing one terrorist group make the other terrorist groups stronger? Does the fact that al Nusra is having skirmishes and battles for territory with ISIS and ISIS is doing the same with al Qaeda complicate the question?
It seems like two years ago folks were saying let the Muslims kill each other. Now folks are saying we should have supported al Qaeda and al Nusra by attacking ISIS. I think the folks playing armchair General are just being, well, armchair Generals with very little information of General skills.

 

[EconChick]

So if you have three monster terrorist groups like al Nusra, al Qaeda and ISIS that are fighting a terrorist regime that supports a huge terrorist group like Hezbollah, who do you bomb? Won't bombing one terrorist group make the other terrorist groups stronger? Does the fact that al Nusra is having skirmishes and battles for territory with ISIS and ISIS is doing the same with al Qaeda complicate the question?
It seems like two years ago folks were saying let the Muslims kill each other. Now folks are saying we should have supported al Qaeda and al Nusra by attacking ISIS. I think the folks playing armchair General are just being, well, armchair Generals with very little information of General skills.

Finally. A liberal that can have an intelligent discussion. Too warn out talking to the 5 year old to answer it though.

 

[Synthaholic]

I suggest you are the one rewriting history.

President George W. Bush, who routinely allowed journalists to accompany him on golf outings early in his presidency, told Politico in May 2008 that he decided to give up the game in August 2003 after a bomb attack on the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad that killed a top U.N. official.

“I don’t want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander-in-chief playing golf,” Bush said. “I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them.”

“And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong message,” Bush said.


Remember When President Bush Gave Up Golf - Katie Pavlich

But, being a Bush, and a Republican, he was caught lying:

Huffpo:
Bush Lied About Giving Up Golf Video Proof

Alex Jones:
Bush Lied About Giving Up Golf Alex Jones Infowars There s a war on for your mind

 

[Synthaholic]

. Anyone honestly trying to discern the truth should look at your post and the post from Synthaholic. You're both arguing the same fallacious argument about the SOFA - which is that Obama had no choice but to leave. And that's bullshit.

But look at how both of your quotes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Synth says I'm a know nothing because there was no 2008 SOFA. You say just the opposite. You say I'm a know nothing because I say the 2008 SOFA was a placeholder for a finalized 2012 SOFA.

Synthaholic is as wrong as you are. What are you babbling about now. There was a SOFA in 2008 and it set a firm date for all US troops to leave.

There was an expiring SOFA in 2008.

What I meant was that there was no new SOFA in 2008, because the Iraqis wouldn't agree to US justice for US servicemen.

Bush wouldn't sign it.
Obama wouldn't sign it.
No president would sign it.

Iraqi insistence on Sharia/Iraqi law for U.S. military ensured we would leave. Which is exactly what they wanted.

So let them deal with ISIS.

 

[Genevieve]

Many called for the destruction of ISIS in Syria when they first popped up. Then as ISIS flooded into Iraq many decried us just sitting back and doing nothing.

Now Kerry, Hagel & the joint chiefs are prepping the American people for the "creep" that may turn into all out war.

Apparently ISIS isn't the Jay Vee team Obama thought they were huh

The right was right all along on lots of things.
The first thing was that Romney would have been a better President.
Obama's just voting "president" and doing nothing in the face of ever-escalating world problems.......is going to be our undoing.

 

[Charles_Main]

I suggest you are the one rewriting history.

President George W. Bush, who routinely allowed journalists to accompany him on golf outings early in his presidency, told Politico in May 2008 that he decided to give up the game in August 2003 after a bomb attack on the United Nations headquarters in Baghdad that killed a top U.N. official.

“I don’t want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the commander-in-chief playing golf,” Bush said. “I feel I owe it to the families to be in solidarity as best as I can with them.”

“And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong message,” Bush said.


Remember When President Bush Gave Up Golf - Katie Pavlich

But, being a Bush, and a Republican, he was caught lying:

Huffpo:
Bush Lied About Giving Up Golf Video Proof

Alex Jones:
Bush Lied About Giving Up Golf Alex Jones Infowars There s a war on for your mind

Nice sources lol, But then I didn't say he never golfed, I said he made a point of not being seen doing it. Obama don't give a fuck.

 

[Charles_Main]

Um actually yes, see in recent memory, Presidents including Bush cut short Vacations and deliberately were NOT SEEN playing golf in times of crisis.

That's some fine historical revisionism. Bush certainly didn't let terrorists spoil his golf outings.

It's comedic how either the right wing loons here deny history or simply are ignorant of it's existence.

This thread is a testament to it. A poll was taken back last August concerning whether or not we should go into Syria. The results for/against were something like 4/180 (4 were pro-Obama's wanting to go in). Now it's "I told you so" even though most now criticizing the actions that were taken were against the re-invasion.

Of course what isn't mentioned is that with every new stress in the ME, gas prices go up. Gas in one part of the nation was at $3.11. It's below $4 a gallon in San Francisco for the first time this year I believe. Were we still fighting in the ME, that would not be the case and the same lunatics wanting war (as long as they don't go) would be bitching about fuel costs....

I have never wanted war. That's what Lefties seem to fail to grasp. You think just because someone understands that sometimes war happens like it or not, and when it does it's best to win, that they must "want war"

 

[Charles_Main]

Many called for the destruction of ISIS in Syria when they first popped up. Then as ISIS flooded into Iraq many decried us just sitting back and doing nothing.

Now Kerry, Hagel & the joint chiefs are prepping the American people for the "creep" that may turn into all out war.

Apparently ISIS isn't the Jay Vee team Obama thought they were huh

The right was right all along on lots of things.
The first thing was that Romney would have been a better President.
Obama's just voting "president" and doing nothing in the face of ever-escalating world problems.......is going to be our undoing.

I agree Romney would have been better, Definitely on the Economy. Who knows on everything else but it's hard to imagine someone being worse than Obama. The Persona of Weakness he is putting off is killing us. Nobody respects us anymore, Nobody believes we have the will or ability to take action, and with out that you have nothing.

 

[Charles_Main]

Obama ignores the US military and CIA warning him about terrorists in Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Libya, etc......so every time he goes golfing it shows he is a fucking shitbag.

Who cares about how many times Buuuuuuuuush golfed, he didn't ignore the military and CIA.

If the U.S. went to war every time the the CIA gave the President a warning we'd be at war with every country in the world constantly. This idea that every time some war monger has a hunch or theory (like the "Domino Theory"), we have to go to war preemptively, the U.S. would just been seen as nothing but a bully, no one would consider our actions justified and the whole world would hate us.

Some times it's best to wait until the shit hits the fan so everyone knows who's right and who's wrong.

Not every time, Just when it could have serious Ramifications on US national Security issues. Which is why it seems like we only go to war over oil. Because Keeping oil flowing onto the world market and filling our demand is a Huge National Security issue.

So the key is if you want to be Despotic Dictator, or You want to invade your neighbors. It's best to do so in a country with out large Petroleum reserves, or other Key US interests. It might seem cold but it is what the constitution tasks our Government with, Protecting our Security Interests. It does not say protect the whole world from War Mongering Despotic Leaders, It says Protect us and our Interests. Oil is and will continue to be one of them.

 

[Genevieve]

Many called for the destruction of ISIS in Syria when they first popped up. Then as ISIS flooded into Iraq many decried us just sitting back and doing nothing.

Now Kerry, Hagel & the joint chiefs are prepping the American people for the "creep" that may turn into all out war.

Apparently ISIS isn't the Jay Vee team Obama thought they were huh

The right was right all along on lots of things.
The first thing was that Romney would have been a better President.
Obama's just voting "president" and doing nothing in the face of ever-escalating world problems.......is going to be our undoing.

I agree Romney would have been better, Definitely on the Economy. Who knows on everything else but it's hard to imagine someone being worse than Obama. The Persona of Weakness he is putting off is killing us. Nobody respects us anymore, Nobody believes we have the will or ability to take action, and with out that you have nothing.

Obama is the worst President in the history of our nation. He is destroying us. Our allies are now acting without even consulting us. Our enemies are laughing at us. It's a sad state of affairs. We have a president who is tired of the job now and just doesn't want to do it anymore. I wish he would just resign. Maybe when the Lois Lerner emails are finally out in the open, he will step down in shame.

 

[Charles_Main]

Many called for the destruction of ISIS in Syria when they first popped up. Then as ISIS flooded into Iraq many decried us just sitting back and doing nothing.

Now Kerry, Hagel & the joint chiefs are prepping the American people for the "creep" that may turn into all out war.

Apparently ISIS isn't the Jay Vee team Obama thought they were huh

The right was right all along on lots of things.
The first thing was that Romney would have been a better President.
Obama's just voting "president" and doing nothing in the face of ever-escalating world problems.......is going to be our undoing.

I agree Romney would have been better, Definitely on the Economy. Who knows on everything else but it's hard to imagine someone being worse than Obama. The Persona of Weakness he is putting off is killing us. Nobody respects us anymore, Nobody believes we have the will or ability to take action, and with out that you have nothing.

Obama is the worst President in the history of our nation. He is destroying us. Our allies are now acting without even consulting us. Our enemies are laughing at us. It's a sad state of affairs. We have a president who is tired of the job now and just doesn't want to do it anymore. I wish he would just resign. Maybe when the Lois Lerner emails are finally out in the open, he will step down in shame.

Pipe Dreams, He wont go willingly

 

[Genevieve]

. Anyone honestly trying to discern the truth should look at your post and the post from Synthaholic. You're both arguing the same fallacious argument about the SOFA - which is that Obama had no choice but to leave. And that's bullshit.

But look at how both of your quotes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Synth says I'm a know nothing because there was no 2008 SOFA. You say just the opposite. You say I'm a know nothing because I say the 2008 SOFA was a placeholder for a finalized 2012 SOFA.

Synthaholic is as wrong as you are. What are you babbling about now. There was a SOFA in 2008 and it set a firm date for all US troops to leave.

There was an expiring SOFA in 2008.

What I meant was that there was no new SOFA in 2008, because the Iraqis wouldn't agree to US justice for US servicemen.

Bush wouldn't sign it.
Obama wouldn't sign it.
No president would sign it.

Iraqi insistence on Sharia/Iraqi law for U.S. military ensured we would leave. Which is exactly what they wanted.

So let them deal with ISIS.

A president /secretary of state worth his/her salt would have been able to work that agreement into something we could sign.

 

[Wildman]

that "exit strategy" is working out really well now.

Yes it is.

No U.S. Troops Died in Iraq or Afghanistan Last Month - TIME

There's just this little itty problem called ISIS that resulted.

What problem is that? No American blood being spilled is a good thing.

Lets say we go back in, fight them, destroy them, then what? Stay there? Spending more money, blood, treasure, so they can install another American hating theocrat?

No thanks. Been there, done that, got the pictures of the flag draped coffins.

The problem is that ISIS is coming to America. They are being given the opportunity to recruit and become more powerful than ever .

And our being there would change that how... It would actually be a great recruiting too for ISIS.

Obama did the right thing by getting us out of that mess caused by GWB. He took far too long to do it in my opinion...it should have happened in February 2008 IMHO.

=====================================

Obozo did the only thing he could do by getting us out of that mess caused by the vote of a libercrat controlled congress.

and now he is being criticized by his own MSM and the puppets who worship the golf course he chips on.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

"The Right" as a whole has never had anything close to a comprehensive or coherent position on what to do with ISIS.

So the answer to the OP is no.

 

[EconChick]

. Anyone honestly trying to discern the truth should look at your post and the post from Synthaholic. You're both arguing the same fallacious argument about the SOFA - which is that Obama had no choice but to leave. And that's bullshit.

But look at how both of your quotes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Synth says I'm a know nothing because there was no 2008 SOFA. You say just the opposite. You say I'm a know nothing because I say the 2008 SOFA was a placeholder for a finalized 2012 SOFA.

Synthaholic is as wrong as you are. What are you babbling about now. There was a SOFA in 2008 and it set a firm date for all US troops to leave.

There was an expiring SOFA in 2008.

What I meant was that there was no new SOFA in 2008, because the Iraqis wouldn't agree to US justice for US servicemen.

Bush wouldn't sign it.
Obama wouldn't sign it.
No president would sign it.

Iraqi insistence on Sharia/Iraqi law for U.S. military ensured we would leave. Which is exactly what they wanted.

So let them deal with ISIS.

Now I think I see why you and NotFooled are confused. Maybe I should start a thread and explain it in detail.

You guys are not understanding that it was one great big rolling negotiation.

The negotiations started way before November 2008 but what was decided on up to that point was enshrined in a written document in November 08 called SOFA.

On November 27, 2008, the Iraqi Parliament ratified a Status of Forces Agreement with the United States, establishing that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. forces would be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011, but allowing for further negotiation if the Iraqi Prime Minister believed Iraq was not stable enough.

And of course everyone believed there needed to be further negotiation by the time Dec 2011 got there. So the draft of a follow on, or final, or 2011 or 2012 or whatever you want to call that follow on SOFA was in the works from 2008 all the way till Obama came to office and the end of 2011 was near.

In it U.S. contractors were supposed to be subject to Iraqi criminal law. If U.S. forces committed still undecided "major premeditated felonies" while off-duty and off-base, they would be subject to the still undecided procedures laid out by a joint U.S.-Iraq committee if the U.S. certified the forces were off-duty.

That's just one excerpt out of 25 pages of the SOFA. Look at the tremendous ambiguity in just that paragraph.

 

[EconChick]

Obama ignores the US military and CIA warning him about terrorists in Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Libya, etc......so every time he goes golfing it shows he is a fucking shitbag.

Who cares about how many times Buuuuuuuuush golfed, he didn't ignore the military and CIA.

If the U.S. went to war every time the the CIA gave the President a warning we'd be at war with every country in the world constantly. This idea that every time some war monger has a hunch or theory (like the "Domino Theory"), we have to go to war preemptively, the U.S. would just been seen as nothing but a bully, no one would consider our actions justified and the whole world would hate us.

Some times it's best to wait until the shit hits the fan so everyone knows who's right and who's wrong.

Not every time, Just when it could have serious Ramifications on US national Security issues. Which is why it seems like we only go to war over oil. Because Keeping oil flowing onto the world market and filling our demand is a Huge National Security issue.

So the key is if you want to be Despotic Dictator, or You want to invade your neighbors. It's best to do so in a country with out large Petroleum reserves, or other Key US interests. It might seem cold but it is what the constitution tasks our Government with, Protecting our Security Interests. It does not say protect the whole world from War Mongering Despotic Leaders, It says Protect us and our Interests. Oil is and will continue to be one of them.

Thank you for explaining it....I get so tired of having to explain those economic realities to isolationists that it's like beating one's head against the wall.

 

[EconChick]

"The Right" as a whole has never had anything close to a comprehensive or coherent position on what to do with ISIS.

So the answer to the OP is no.

Actually to be fair, your first statement is true.


However, it is only one aspect of the OP.

 

[francoHFW]

The Right hasn't been right about anything in years...they don't even try anymore. They like to take both sides against Obama, justice, and the nonrich, then agree after the fact that they were all right all along- he's a pussie dictator!!!. What a bunch of lying tools and silly dupes...nobody with a clue buys the bs anymore.

 

[rdean]

The insults are because I took the time and debated you in good faith with plenty of facts. .

What facts? You cited ambiguity as one of your facts. There is not a single fact presented by you on the matter of the 2008 SOFA and what it says and what it requires.

You can't name one viable option that Obama had to keep US troops in Iraq when Iraq's Parliament and Maliki's own party would not agree to it.

Dropping the immunity for our troops is and was not an option for Obama to concede to benefit the Shiite mini-dictator, Maliki.


What do you think Obama's options were?

I think when you say "dropping immunity for our troops", these Republicans may think it's about vaccines. Not sure they understand what you are talking about.

What they tend to do if they don't understand is to call people crazy. They figure, "It can't be me so it must be them".

 

[rdean]

Many called for the destruction of ISIS in Syria when they first popped up. Then as ISIS flooded into Iraq many decried us just sitting back and doing nothing.

Now Kerry, Hagel & the joint chiefs are prepping the American people for the "creep" that may turn into all out war.

Apparently ISIS isn't the Jay Vee team Obama thought they were huh

Republicans created Isis when they let go all of the Iraqi military leaving them without jobs or a way to take care of their families and then put in place a Shiite Government making Iraq a sister state to Iran. Republicans did that.

What could they have done different. Think about it. If you can't figure it out, let me know and I will explain it to you.

Let me know what you do different when you board your time machine rderp. Meanwhile the rest of us in 2014 will concentrate on the current situation.

The current situation is a result of the past mistakes. You can't really be effective if you don't learn from past mistakes. You need to understand what you did wrong to figure out a course of action.

Seriously? I'm very surprised that had to be explained to you. I know you consider yourself to be some kind of intellectual. It could be some type of self delusion.