We need Mueller to say what he actually THINKS

[Mac1958]

I swear, I can't believe how difficult to be to get adults to just focus and drop the talking points and noise.

 

[Mac1958]

Maureen Dowd puts it perfectly:

"...Mueller, with his impenetrable legalise and double negatives, has handcuffed himself".

"...The special counsel is clearly frustrated that we don't understand his reasoning. But his reasoning is nonsensical."

Nice to see I'm not the only one.
.

 

[Olde Europe]

Mueller report, Vol II, p 12:

The omnibus clause of 18 U.S.C. § 1503 prohibits an “endeavor” to obstruct justice, which sweeps more broadly than Section 1512’s attempt provision. See United States v. Sampson, 898 F.3d 287, 302 (2d Cir. 2018); United States v. Leisure, 844 F.2d 1347, 1366-1367 (8th Cir. 1988) (collecting cases). “It is well established that a[n] [obstruction-of-justice] offense is complete when one corruptly endeavors to obstruct or impede the due administration of justice; the prosecution need not prove that the due administration of justice was actually obstructed or impeded.”​

 

[Redfish]

Mueller has personal biases also. I don't want his, or anyone's, opinions on this.

Besides, injecting that would solve nothing, but would likely only serve to complicate matters.

I don't have a problem with Mueller per se, but I am sick as hell of this nonsense which has plagued our country for 2 plus years and resulted in nothing, ZERO, relative to what they were supposedly investigating, which was collusion.

I've had far more than enough and am simply done with it. Show me actual provable collusion or STFU and let the country get on with its business.

Collusion is a non-issue now. The Dems are going after Trump on obstruction.

The two are mutually exclusive.
.

Horseshit, they are going after Trump because he won the 2016 election and because he is exposing the corruption of the DC deep state made up of both parties.

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, try to get them to do it anyway? That would be a different story.

Those seem like perfectly reasonable and obvious questions for anyone who is curious.
.

Mueller's report could have defined any obstruction that he found and believed to be illegal. But it didn't. So the only obvious conclusion is that there wasn't any.

Why did you ignore my question about why Mueller did not investigate the russian connections to the clinton campaign and the clintons themselves?

 

[Redfish]

Maureen Dowd puts it perfectly:

"...Mueller, with his impenetrable legalise and double negatives, has handcuffed himself".

"...The special counsel is clearly frustrated that we don't understand his reasoning. But his reasoning is nonsensical."

Nice to see I'm not the only one.
.

his reasoning is nonsensical because he had one goal, to bring down a duly elected president, and he could not find evidence to do that. So now he is trying to keep the witch hunt alive with obtuse language and double talk.

 

[Mac1958]

Collusion is a non-issue now. The Dems are going after Trump on obstruction.

The two are mutually exclusive.
.

Horseshit, they are going after Trump because he won the 2016 election and because he is exposing the corruption of the DC deep state made up of both parties.

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, try to get them to do it anyway? That would be a different story.

Those seem like perfectly reasonable and obvious questions for anyone who is curious.
.

Mueller's report could have defined any obstruction that he found and believed to be illegal. But it didn't. So the only obvious conclusion is that there wasn't any.

Why did you ignore my question about why Mueller did not investigate the russian connections to the clinton campaign and the clintons themselves?

I don't make binary assumptions like that.

I didn't answer your question because I don't know that particular conspiracy theory. I listen to talk radio when I can, but I don't always know the specifics.
.

 

[Redfish]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Mac: Hillary lost because she was more right wing than Duke. She would use ANY vehicle to get elected so in the end stood for NOTHING!!!The rust belt voted for jobs ahead of food stamps. I think Trump is delivering. Still a long way to go but steady she goes.

As for the Russia shit? No collusion.........damn stupid to have suggested it in the first place.

Greg

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

 

[Mac1958]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Mac: Hillary lost because she was more right wing than Duke. She would use ANY vehicle to get elected so in the end stood for NOTHING!!!The rust belt voted for jobs ahead of food stamps. I think Trump is delivering. Still a long way to go but steady she goes.

As for the Russia shit? No collusion.........damn stupid to have suggested it in the first place.

Greg

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

 

[Redfish]

Horseshit, they are going after Trump because he won the 2016 election and because he is exposing the corruption of the DC deep state made up of both parties.

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, try to get them to do it anyway? That would be a different story.

Those seem like perfectly reasonable and obvious questions for anyone who is curious.
.

Mueller's report could have defined any obstruction that he found and believed to be illegal. But it didn't. So the only obvious conclusion is that there wasn't any.

Why did you ignore my question about why Mueller did not investigate the russian connections to the clinton campaign and the clintons themselves?

I don't make binary assumptions like that.

I didn't answer your question because I don't know that particular conspiracy theory. I listen to talk radio when I can, but I don't always know the specifics.
.

a few specifics for you to ponder:

the dossier was prepared by russians and paid for by hillary
the russians paid 145 million to the clinton foundation
Putin paid Bill Clinton 450K for a 20 minute speech in Moscow
Russian interests were given control of 20% of our uranium in a deal brokered by Hillary

So, once again. If Mueller's charter was to investigate Russian influence, why did he ignore these obvious ones?

 

[Redfish]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Mac: Hillary lost because she was more right wing than Duke. She would use ANY vehicle to get elected so in the end stood for NOTHING!!!The rust belt voted for jobs ahead of food stamps. I think Trump is delivering. Still a long way to go but steady she goes.

As for the Russia shit? No collusion.........damn stupid to have suggested it in the first place.

Greg

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

 

[Theowl32]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Ahhh, go blow it out of your ass, you socialist dipshit.

 

[Mac1958]

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, try to get them to do it anyway? That would be a different story.

Those seem like perfectly reasonable and obvious questions for anyone who is curious.
.

Mueller's report could have defined any obstruction that he found and believed to be illegal. But it didn't. So the only obvious conclusion is that there wasn't any.

Why did you ignore my question about why Mueller did not investigate the russian connections to the clinton campaign and the clintons themselves?

I don't make binary assumptions like that.

I didn't answer your question because I don't know that particular conspiracy theory. I listen to talk radio when I can, but I don't always know the specifics.
.

a few specifics for you to ponder:

the dossier was prepared by russians and paid for by hillary
the russians paid 145 million to the clinton foundation
Putin paid Bill Clinton 450K for a 20 minute speech in Moscow
Russian interests were given control of 20% of our uranium in a deal brokered by Hillary

So, once again. If Mueller's charter was to investigate Russian influence, why did he ignore these obvious ones?

I don't know. Nor do I know if any of those specifics are either true or the whole story.

I'm happy to run with your conspiracy theory if you'd like, but I'm afraid I don't have enough information.
..

 

[Mac1958]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Mac: Hillary lost because she was more right wing than Duke. She would use ANY vehicle to get elected so in the end stood for NOTHING!!!The rust belt voted for jobs ahead of food stamps. I think Trump is delivering. Still a long way to go but steady she goes.

As for the Russia shit? No collusion.........damn stupid to have suggested it in the first place.

Greg

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

Yes. And as I've pointed out, I wish they had. I don't like the way the report runs, and I wish I could know more.
.

 

[Mac1958]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Ahhh, go blow it out of your ass, you socialist dipshit.

I sure will!
.

 

[Correll]

Mac: Hillary lost because she was more right wing than Duke. She would use ANY vehicle to get elected so in the end stood for NOTHING!!!The rust belt voted for jobs ahead of food stamps. I think Trump is delivering. Still a long way to go but steady she goes.

As for the Russia shit? No collusion.........damn stupid to have suggested it in the first place.

Greg

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

Yes. And as I've pointed out, I wish they had. I don't like the way the report runs, and I wish I could know more.
.

Have you considered the possibility that Mueller knows that there was no collusion, nor obstruction, but just doesn't want to admit it, so that is why the lack of clarity?

 

[Mac1958]

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

Yes. And as I've pointed out, I wish they had. I don't like the way the report runs, and I wish I could know more.
.

Have you considered the possibility that Mueller knows that there was no collusion, nor obstruction, but just doesn't want to admit it, so that is why the lack of clarity?

Sure, anything is possible. I find that doubtful, but anything is possible.
.

 

[Theowl32]

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, try to get them to do it anyway? That would be a different story.

Those seem like perfectly reasonable and obvious questions for anyone who is curious.
.

Mueller's report could have defined any obstruction that he found and believed to be illegal. But it didn't. So the only obvious conclusion is that there wasn't any.

Why did you ignore my question about why Mueller did not investigate the russian connections to the clinton campaign and the clintons themselves?

I don't make binary assumptions like that.

I didn't answer your question because I don't know that particular conspiracy theory. I listen to talk radio when I can, but I don't always know the specifics.
.

a few specifics for you to ponder:

the dossier was prepared by russians and paid for by hillary
the russians paid 145 million to the clinton foundation
Putin paid Bill Clinton 450K for a 20 minute speech in Moscow
Russian interests were given control of 20% of our uranium in a deal brokered by Hillary

So, once again. If Mueller's charter was to investigate Russian influence, why did he ignore these obvious ones?

The loser has had 2 and a half years to ponder that and they still think Trump, who had zero access to any government institution since he was never a politician, somehow joined up with Putin under the nose of their marxist black messiah who had control of the nsa, fbi, cia, irs and homeland security and stole the election from their kuuunt in a pants suit..

Sigh......

Guy is a waste of time along with the rest of them.

 

[Correll]

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

Yes. And as I've pointed out, I wish they had. I don't like the way the report runs, and I wish I could know more.
.

Have you considered the possibility that Mueller knows that there was no collusion, nor obstruction, but just doesn't want to admit it, so that is why the lack of clarity?

Sure, anything is possible. I find that doubtful, but anything is possible.
.

Why do you think it is doubtful? He spent millions looking for something and could find nothing. Tens of millions of people were looking to him for something, that he was unable to deliver.


NOt wanting to admit that, seems like an excellent motive for what I described.

 

[Redfish]

Mac: Hillary lost because she was more right wing than Duke. She would use ANY vehicle to get elected so in the end stood for NOTHING!!!The rust belt voted for jobs ahead of food stamps. I think Trump is delivering. Still a long way to go but steady she goes.

As for the Russia shit? No collusion.........damn stupid to have suggested it in the first place.

Greg

I'm talking about how Trump allegedly obstructed justice. That's where my questions are.
.

why do you keep repeating that? If Mueller and his team of democrat supporters could have made an obstruction case, the would have done it. They couldn't and didn't. Its over, time to move on.

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

Yes. And as I've pointed out, I wish they had. I don't like the way the report runs, and I wish I could know more.
.

why do you assume that there is more to know? If the Mueller team found nothing, as the report states, then there is nothing more for him to tell us.

But I agree with others, I would love to hear him testify under oath before congress and the american people.

 

[Mac1958]

I keep repeating it because no one will answer it. There are elements of the report that could be construed as obstruction, but I have a few questions.

Curious people sometimes have questions. I know that sounds crazy, but some of us do still exist.
.

Don't you think that the Mueller team would have defined any proven obstruction in the report?

Yes. And as I've pointed out, I wish they had. I don't like the way the report runs, and I wish I could know more.
.

Have you considered the possibility that Mueller knows that there was no collusion, nor obstruction, but just doesn't want to admit it, so that is why the lack of clarity?

Sure, anything is possible. I find that doubtful, but anything is possible.
.

Why do you think it is doubtful? He spent millions looking for something and could find nothing. Tens of millions of people were looking to him for something, that he was unable to deliver.


NOt wanting to admit that, seems like an excellent motive for what I described.

I don't think that Mueller is a part of some big conspiracy or coup to get Trump at all costs.

I think that whole meme is silly talk radio fantasy.
.