We need Mueller to say what he actually THINKS

[WEATHER53]

Mueller is a public servant - law enforcement. He has no intention whatsoever to become a pawn in the political fight now ensuing. He made it abundantly clear he won't say a word beyond the content of his report.

Anyone not president would have been brought in for extensive questioning, and - with a likelihood bordering on certainty - charged with obstruction of justice. To anyone who actually read the report, that should be perfectly clear.

What needs doing now is Congress to man up, to subpoena and study the underlying evidence, and then, if warranted, to bring Trump, Kushner, and Trump jr. before the Judiciary committee. That "collusion" thing is far from over, and it will play a prominent role in any impeachment proceeding. The threshold here is far lower than proving a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt - eagerly seeking, and accepting, help from a foreign adversary. That should play well with the electorate. So, there's a spectacle in public testimony from the three head collaborators to be had.

That prospect should frighten the Trumpletons to death - not Mueller testifying. The clueless goofs who think they can protect their Dear Leader by smearing Mueller really are the most laughable bunch ever to crawl out from beneath their rocks.

More what ifs

 

[Mac1958]

Mueller has personal biases also. I don't want his, or anyone's, opinions on this.

Besides, injecting that would solve nothing, but would likely only serve to complicate matters.

I don't have a problem with Mueller per se, but I am sick as hell of this nonsense which has plagued our country for 2 plus years and resulted in nothing, ZERO, relative to what they were supposedly investigating, which was collusion.

I've had far more than enough and am simply done with it. Show me actual provable collusion or STFU and let the country get on with its business.

Collusion is a non-issue now. The Dems are going after Trump on obstruction.

The two are mutually exclusive.
.

I'm aware of that.

They've moved the goalposts to keep their dogging of Trump going.

We've gotten to a point where it is apparently acceptable to obstruct a duly elected president via an investigation and to then keep obstructing on tangential matters despite the main focus if the investigation being a clear dry hole. This is not a precedent that should be allowed to be established, IMO, as going forward this would seem to mean anyone can launch a tenuous investigation as the basis for a fishing expedition which then is a never-ending process designed for nothing else than misusing the system for political goals.

That's what this is. That's what this has been from the jump IMO, as the dems simply could not, and cannot accept that they lost, and there's no way I'm going to support the perpetuation of this nonsense.

Well, let's face it - all these people are good for is accusing each other and investigating each other. They're not allowed by their bases to collaborate and legislate like adults, so this is all they have left. This appears to be what we want.

So, based on that, I'd like to know more about this notion of obstruction, since that's all we'll hear about for a while.
.

 

[Redfish]

Mueller has personal biases also. I don't want his, or anyone's, opinions on this.

Besides, injecting that would solve nothing, but would likely only serve to complicate matters.

I don't have a problem with Mueller per se, but I am sick as hell of this nonsense which has plagued our country for 2 plus years and resulted in nothing, ZERO, relative to what they were supposedly investigating, which was collusion.

I've had far more than enough and am simply done with it. Show me actual provable collusion or STFU and let the country get on with its business.

Collusion is a non-issue now. The Dems are going after Trump on obstruction.

The two are mutually exclusive.
.

Horseshit, they are going after Trump because he won the 2016 election and because he is exposing the corruption of the DC deep state made up of both parties.

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

 

[Redfish]

Mueller has personal biases also. I don't want his, or anyone's, opinions on this.

Besides, injecting that would solve nothing, but would likely only serve to complicate matters.

I don't have a problem with Mueller per se, but I am sick as hell of this nonsense which has plagued our country for 2 plus years and resulted in nothing, ZERO, relative to what they were supposedly investigating, which was collusion.

I've had far more than enough and am simply done with it. Show me actual provable collusion or STFU and let the country get on with its business.

Collusion is a non-issue now. The Dems are going after Trump on obstruction.

The two are mutually exclusive.
.

I'm aware of that.

They've moved the goalposts to keep their dogging of Trump going.

We've gotten to a point where it is apparently acceptable to obstruct a duly elected president via an investigation and to then keep obstructing on tangential matters despite the main focus if the investigation being a clear dry hole. This is not a precedent that should be allowed to be established, IMO, as going forward this would seem to mean anyone can launch a tenuous investigation as the basis for a fishing expedition which then is a never-ending process designed for nothing else than misusing the system for political goals.

That's what this is. That's what this has been from the jump IMO, as the dems simply could not, and cannot accept that they lost, and there's no way I'm going to support the perpetuation of this nonsense.

Well, let's face it - all these people are good for is accusing each other and investigating each other. They're not allowed by their bases to collaborate and legislate like adults, so this is all they have left. This appears to be what we want.

So, based on that, I'd like to know more about this notion of obstruction, since that's all we'll hear about for a while.
.

Yes, and why don't we have anyone today like Reagan and O'Neill, Clinton and Newt? What has caused us to be so divided? who started it? who perpetuates it? My answer: the media, because they need continuous shit for ratings.

 

[Olde Europe]

This is not a precedent that should be allowed to be established, IMO, as going forward this would seem to mean anyone can launch a tenuous investigation as the basis for a fishing expedition which then is a never-ending process designed for nothing else than misusing the system for political goals.

So, if that is a precedent that shouldn't be allowed to be established, you did spend the entirety of the 90s in a coma, obviously.

What a goof.

 

[Crixus]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Muller won’t say anything more for the simple reason that it will destroy his legacy. His whole career he has been known as this for like creature, the master gunslinger law man who is above it all, when all along he has been nothing more then a political operative. Muller said it him self, his report is his testimony and he will not say anything more. Honestly, he should be called to congress and held in contempt if he still refuses to speak. That said, Muller doesn’t benefit by being clear here. He ain’t out for justice he is out to protect his reputation. He is nothing more then a crooked cop.

 

[Mac1958]

Mueller has personal biases also. I don't want his, or anyone's, opinions on this.

Besides, injecting that would solve nothing, but would likely only serve to complicate matters.

I don't have a problem with Mueller per se, but I am sick as hell of this nonsense which has plagued our country for 2 plus years and resulted in nothing, ZERO, relative to what they were supposedly investigating, which was collusion.

I've had far more than enough and am simply done with it. Show me actual provable collusion or STFU and let the country get on with its business.

Collusion is a non-issue now. The Dems are going after Trump on obstruction.

The two are mutually exclusive.
.

Horseshit, they are going after Trump because he won the 2016 election and because he is exposing the corruption of the DC deep state made up of both parties.

Yes, this has always been political. My point is that we can't accurately examine the obstruction issue based on what we know so far.

The Left and the Right don't need more information, since their opinions are set in stone, but the rest of us could use it.
.

what information do you think exists that is not in the Mueller report, the IG report, and the two congressional reports on this subject? The only information we don't really have is that related to the dossier and the FACT that the Hillary campaign paid Russians to create it. So if Mueller's charge was to investigate russian influence, why didn't he investigate this?

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, try to get them to do it anyway? That would be a different story.

Those seem like perfectly reasonable and obvious questions for anyone who is curious.
.

 

[night_son]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Supposedly Mueller asked President Trump to replace James Comey as Director, FBI and wasn't too happy when POTUS would not bite. The whole labyrinthine truth of this matter might never be known.

 

[Mac1958]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Muller won’t say anything more for the simple reason that it will destroy his legacy. His whole career he has been known as this for like creature, the master gunslinger law man who is above it all, when all along he has been nothing more then a political operative. Muller said it him self, his report is his testimony and he will not say anything more. Honestly, he should be called to congress and held in contempt if he still refuses to speak. That said, Muller doesn’t benefit by being clear here. He ain’t out for justice he is out to protect his reputation. He is nothing more then a crooked cop.

Whatever he is, it's definitely in his best interest to remove himself from this ASAP.

But as I said, every loose end is just an excuse for wingers to make assumptions and accusations based on nothing more than ignorance and partisanship.
.

 

[Crixus]

My disappointment with Mueller is that he has chosen to leave so much up to interpretation and conjecture.

Predictably, all the silly wingers are highlighting only what supports their set-in-stone opinions and making assumptions that may or may not be true. Because that's what they do.

This stuff is too important for that. I understand his reticence to inject opinion on this matter, since his task was to find facts only. But we need more. The more detail the better, because detail forces out conjecture.

Maybe this will get so fucking ugly that he'll finally feel some obligation to let it all out and tell us what he really thinks. He seems like a guy who is simply too principled and professional for the times.
.

Muller won’t say anything more for the simple reason that it will destroy his legacy. His whole career he has been known as this for like creature, the master gunslinger law man who is above it all, when all along he has been nothing more then a political operative. Muller said it him self, his report is his testimony and he will not say anything more. Honestly, he should be called to congress and held in contempt if he still refuses to speak. That said, Muller doesn’t benefit by being clear here. He ain’t out for justice he is out to protect his reputation. He is nothing more then a crooked cop.

Whatever he is, it's definitely in his best interest to remove himself from this ASAP.

But as I said, every loose end is just an excuse for wingers to make assumptions and accusations based on ignorance.
.

He can’t. I’m thinking he is kicking himself for ever having gotten involved. He is stuck now.

 

[Mac1958]

The whole labyrinthine truth of this matter might never be known.

I'm afraid you're right.

There are a lot of people who don't WANT too much clarity, though, because they want to fill in the gaps with their own crap.
.

 

[Fueri]

This is not a precedent that should be allowed to be established, IMO, as going forward this would seem to mean anyone can launch a tenuous investigation as the basis for a fishing expedition which then is a never-ending process designed for nothing else than misusing the system for political goals.

So, if that is a precedent that shouldn't be allowed to be established, you did spend the entirety of the 90s in a coma, obviously.

What a goof.

My, what a cogent comment.

Consider me impressed by your use of an ad hominem attack to establish false equivalence.

And I'm the goof. lol....

 

[night_son]

The whole labyrinthine truth of this matter might never be known.

I'm afraid you're right.

There are a lot of people who don't WANT too much clarity, though, because they want to fill in the gaps with their own crap.
.

I prefer the truth, even if the truth shatters my little world of self-indulgent political mania. That said, aren't we all mired down in our own megalomaniacal crap these days? Wasn't the WWW supposed to unite us all in some instant communication capable kumbaya?

 

[Muhammed]

If Mueller said exactly what he thinks he would be ranting on about how he wanted to kill Trump for having the audacity to challenge the swamp.

 

[Olde Europe]

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Bullshit. Read the statute, Mac. It's actually quoted in Mueller's report. Had you read it, you wouldn't come up with such goofy nonsense.

 

[Mac1958]

I mentioned earlier that the main question I'd like the answer to is how Trump tried to get others to "obstruct".

Did he ask them to, and then, when told that would be illegal, back off and move on? That would not obstruction.

Bullshit. Read the statute, Mac. It's actually quoted in Mueller's report. Had you read it, you wouldn't come up with such goofy nonsense.

Lay it out then. I'm sure you have all the details.
.

 

[Olde Europe]

Lay it out then. I'm sure you have all the details.

Yep, I do, and you don't. There is a way to remedy that, you know?

 

[Mac1958]

Lay it out then. I'm sure you have all the details.

Yep, I do, and you don't. There is a way to remedy that, you know?

Wingers.
.

 

[georgephillip]

We need Mueller to definitively say the President DID commit crimes, not that he THINKS the President did, then definitively prove it....

And Mueller needs to make that statement before Congress UNDER OATH ..then answer questions about his 'investigation'...

It's not Mueller's responsibility to prove Trump committed crimes; that responsibility lies with Congress which should require Mueller's public testimony under oath. Of course, Trump could have saved all of us many keystrokes if he hadn't been afraid to sit down with the Special Counsel and answer questions without resorting to perjury.

How likely is that?
About as likely as Trump volunteering to testify at his upcoming Senate Impeachment Trial.
U.S. Senate: Impeachment

 

[Mac1958]

U.S. Senate: Impeachment

It will have to revolve around definitions.

For example, the Dems will have to claim that when Trump instructed Sessions to fire Mueller, that's obstruction. That's a stretch, even though the Dems will say it's blatantly obvious.

The Dems will have to claim that some of Trump's public statements may have influenced a jury. Another stretch.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I think Pelosi knows this thing won't hold water. She's obviously a solid partisan, but she's nowhere near as crazed as some on the left right now. She looks like Margaret freakin' Thatcher next to them.
.