What Happened to Church?

[Cecilie1200]

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

They seem to believe that God and salvation are commodities which need to be marketed to the world, with advertising campaigns tailoring Christianity to appeal to its enemies.

Avoid that church, then.

Problem is, it's far too many churches these days, and it makes me concerned for the Church in general.

There's not a lot I, as an individual, can do about it, but Christians need to be aware of how much they've let the world creep in and infect their thinking.

 

[Taz]

Then why are so many people not finding your god? (Including all the people who have found a different god).

Because like you they have never looked.

Oh come on, everyone is looking for answers, and some people have found other gods. Actually, your god is in the minority.

And they are better off for that too. There is only one God. It’s not like there’s a smorgasbord of Gods out there. He doesn’t care what name you call him. He answers to many.

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

You will not be hijacking this thread like you try to do with every religious thread.

That's your answer when you're stumped.

 

[Marion Morrison]

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

They seem to believe that God and salvation are commodities which need to be marketed to the world, with advertising campaigns tailoring Christianity to appeal to its enemies.

Avoid that church, then.

Problem is, it's far too many churches these days, and it makes me concerned for the Church in general.

There's not a lot I, as an individual, can do about it, but Christians need to be aware of how much they've let the world creep in and infect their thinking.

Either they preach God's word and his Spirit is in the building, or not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

On Earth, currently, God is a topic used for money grubbing and wars.

On Earth, always, humans will grab any fig leaf to try to justify their greed and wars. Religion has always been a favorite target.

 

[Taz]

Oh come on, everyone is looking for answers, and some people have found other gods. Actually, your god is in the minority.

And they are better off for that too. There is only one God. It’s not like there’s a smorgasbord of Gods out there. He doesn’t care what name you call him. He answers to many.

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Only if you believe man is capable of understanding God, Taz. Is that what you believe?

Or is it possible that they are trying to use man’s understanding to relate to something man is incapable of understanding.

^^^^^ MASSIVE MUMBO JUMBO ALERT! (it happens when you're stumped )

The universe and God are both too big and complex to fit into human understanding. Especially when the human in question is you.

Sorry if pointing out that you're one small, short-lived organism with a limited intelligence and comprehension in a vast cosmos is too "mumbo-jumbo" for you.

 

[Taz]

I asked you about your church and you wouldn't answer. So now, fuck off.

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

We're talking about church. What's this thread about anyways?

 

[Taz]

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

Can I find god without giving money to a church? If the answer is no, then you're trying to scam me.

No. As long as your focus is on hoarding your material goods and wealth, you can never find God. You can't even begin to LOOK for Him when your eyes are on your wallet.

God expects us to give of ourselves and to sacrifice, not because HE needs it, but because WE need it to become better people.

So the ultimate hoarder of wealth, the Pope, hasn't found god yet? Is that your final answer? ;biggrin:

 

[Taz]

I understand that god made everything, including evil, cancer and deformed babies.

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

But didn't god make the universe and the conditions were there at the beginning so that evil would flourish? Or something like that?

God made the universe with the conditions there at the beginning for humans to choose between good and evil. Free will is pointless if you don't have the option of being wrong.

It is an interesting question to try to resolve WHY did God create the Universe, the galaxies, and the Earth ??

My hypothesis about this is the classic Lonely God theory -- He/She/It wanted to have friends.

Well, we are told that God created mankind for companionship, so that's certainly an aspect. On the other hand, the universe is a rather large and complex endeavor for just that one purpose. Also, it's never been my experience of God that He does anything without multiple purposes being fulfilled.

It is my belief that there is a lot more going on here than just this one planet and the short little lives we live on it. I think there is an ultimate Purpose for which we are destined, and for which this life is designed to prepare us.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what that might be.

Maybe god wanted lots of friends and there's life all throughout the universe. Ever think of that?

 

[Taz]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

Try the next church. Preferably one that adheres to the Word and Spirit of God with no theatrics. When I was a kid, I and my best friend went to about every church in the area. I determined the best local one was the Black M.E. (whatever that means) Baptist church.

Oh, I am. And I'm doing a lot of praying on the subject, because God has somewhere He needs me to be, and something He needs me to do, and I need to be listening for His directions to it.

God wants me to tell you, you should be in the kitchen mopping the floor.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Churches don't "hit up". They pass an offering plate, you contribute or you don't, and you're still welcome to attend whether you give or not.

If you attended church, you'd know that.

I attended church. If there was not a tithe envope with my parents' name on it, or if the pastor felt it was too light, he would call my parents and ask why. So maybe you shouldn't generalize from your own meager personal experience.

Maybe YOU shouldn't.

Thanks, but I didn't.

Yeah, you never, ever spend your time decrying the splinter in your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own. Uh huh. Move along. As usual, you have nothing whatsoever of value to offer.

Get away from the non denominational denomination Cecille. It’s shallow entertainment. Eventually they all shed the Christian aspects.
And Hillsong is a cancer.

Sadly, it's not just the non-denominational churches. The largest AG church in Phoenix used to be Phoenix First Assembly of God. A few years back, they changed their name to "Dream City Church" (just typing it makes me throw up a little in my mouth), and by all accounts, they've gone even farther into the "shopping mall of Jesus" mindset than the place I went last Sunday.

Ironically enough, I noticed a few years back that OTHER segments of Pentecostal churches have morphed too far the other way, and are apparently trying to become Amish who own cars. It was most noticeable in women, who suddenly started wearing shapeless, sack-like dresses down to their calves and not cutting their hair and foregoing makeup. I thought then and think now that it's just the flip side of the same coin of superficiality.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I attended church. If there was not a tithe envope with my parents' name on it, or if the pastor felt it was too light, he would call my parents and ask why. So maybe you shouldn't generalize from your own meager personal experience.

Maybe YOU shouldn't.

Thanks, but I didn't.

Yeah, you never, ever spend your time decrying the splinter in your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own. Uh huh. Move along. As usual, you have nothing whatsoever of value to offer.

Get away from the non denominational denomination Cecille. It’s shallow entertainment. Eventually they all shed the Christian aspects.
And Hillsong is a cancer.

Sadly, it's not just the non-denominational churches. The largest AG church in Phoenix used to be Phoenix First Assembly of God. A few years back, they changed their name to "Dream City Church" (just typing it makes me throw up a little in my mouth), and by all accounts, they've gone even farther into the "shopping mall of Jesus" mindset than the place I went last Sunday.

Ironically enough, I noticed a few years back that OTHER segments of Pentecostal churches have morphed too far the other way, and are apparently trying to become Amish who own cars. It was most noticeable in women, who suddenly started wearing shapeless, sack-like dresses down to their calves and not cutting their hair and foregoing makeup. I thought then and think now that it's just the flip side of the same coin of superficiality.

Eesh, Pentecostals. We still call them the "Roly Poly" church.

 

[DOTR]

I attended church. If there was not a tithe envope with my parents' name on it, or if the pastor felt it was too light, he would call my parents and ask why. So maybe you shouldn't generalize from your own meager personal experience.

Maybe YOU shouldn't.

Thanks, but I didn't.

Yeah, you never, ever spend your time decrying the splinter in your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own. Uh huh. Move along. As usual, you have nothing whatsoever of value to offer.

Get away from the non denominational denomination Cecille. It’s shallow entertainment. Eventually they all shed the Christian aspects.
And Hillsong is a cancer.

Sadly, it's not just the non-denominational churches. The largest AG church in Phoenix used to be Phoenix First Assembly of God. A few years back, they changed their name to "Dream City Church" (just typing it makes me throw up a little in my mouth), and by all accounts, they've gone even farther into the "shopping mall of Jesus" mindset than the place I went last Sunday.

Ironically enough, I noticed a few years back that OTHER segments of Pentecostal churches have morphed too far the other way, and are apparently trying to become Amish who own cars. It was most noticeable in women, who suddenly started wearing shapeless, sack-like dresses down to their calves and not cutting their hair and foregoing makeup. I thought then and think now that it's just the flip side of the same coin of superficiality.

Without the mooring of the ancient faith they swing from one extreme to the other Cecilie. Being super conservative women is a state as egregious as liberalism.
I say this as a sympathetic fellow Christian.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It does nothing to us except reinforce what has happened to the church. Instead of pushing back against that false teaching, the church has absorbed the desire for an easy religion that doesn't demand anything from the person and tried to become what people want.

Obviously, it's a false teaching and if that's all you want, go find a social group to feel good in that caters to you, but it's not Christianity.

You worship the hide n' seek god whom you have a hard time finding, so you study, you listen to explanations, and you generally just follow what someone else made up. God shouldn't have to be so hard, and it should be free because it doesn't need our money.

God isn’t hard to find.

Then why are so many people not finding your god? (Including all the people who have found a different god).

Because, like you, they're too busy congratulating themselves on how "superior" they are and how they therefore don't need to look for Him.

Lots of people find other gods.

There's a difference between finding God and inventing a god.

 

[Cecilie1200]

God isn’t hard to find.

Then why are so many people not finding your god? (Including all the people who have found a different god).

Because like you they have never looked.

Oh come on, everyone is looking for answers, and some people have found other gods. Actually, your god is in the minority.

Looking for answers is not the same thing as looking for the RIGHT answers. All too many people are looking for the answers that they WANT to be true.

Like you.

Rest assured, I am giving your opinion on the subject every iota of respect it deserves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Because like you they have never looked.

Oh come on, everyone is looking for answers, and some people have found other gods. Actually, your god is in the minority.

And they are better off for that too. There is only one God. It’s not like there’s a smorgasbord of Gods out there. He doesn’t care what name you call him. He answers to many.

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

You will not be hijacking this thread like you try to do with every religious thread.

That's your answer when you're stumped.

No, that's my answer when you try to make the topic "Look at me! Look at me! I hate God, and Christians are stooopid!"

Now get back on topic and stop piddling on the rug, Fido.

 

[Cecilie1200]

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

They seem to believe that God and salvation are commodities which need to be marketed to the world, with advertising campaigns tailoring Christianity to appeal to its enemies.

Avoid that church, then.

Problem is, it's far too many churches these days, and it makes me concerned for the Church in general.

There's not a lot I, as an individual, can do about it, but Christians need to be aware of how much they've let the world creep in and infect their thinking.

Either they preach God's word and his Spirit is in the building, or not.

It's not that simple. There's preaching God's word, and then there's preaching God's word.

Let's go back to the church I was in Sunday. Technically, the sermon was in the Word, and it was Biblically correct. The problem with it was that it was on a level more appropriate to a children's Sunday school class. My third-grader would have found it profound and revelatory, but I would have serious questions about any adult - even a non-Christian - who felt greatly edified and enlightened by being informed that envy and coveting rot your spirit and lead to unhappiness. That's not exactly a newsflash.

And that is only addressing ONE of the ways in which church is supposed to enrich us and mature us in our relationship with God.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And they are better off for that too. There is only one God. It’s not like there’s a smorgasbord of Gods out there. He doesn’t care what name you call him. He answers to many.

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Only if you believe man is capable of understanding God, Taz. Is that what you believe?

Or is it possible that they are trying to use man’s understanding to relate to something man is incapable of understanding.

^^^^^ MASSIVE MUMBO JUMBO ALERT! (it happens when you're stumped )

The universe and God are both too big and complex to fit into human understanding. Especially when the human in question is you.

Sorry if pointing out that you're one small, short-lived organism with a limited intelligence and comprehension in a vast cosmos is too "mumbo-jumbo" for you.

Then I guess you shouldn't have started it, huh? Be glad you got the courtesy of an answer, pinhead.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

We're talking about church. What's this thread about anyways?

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

Can I find god without giving money to a church? If the answer is no, then you're trying to scam me.

No. As long as your focus is on hoarding your material goods and wealth, you can never find God. You can't even begin to LOOK for Him when your eyes are on your wallet.

God expects us to give of ourselves and to sacrifice, not because HE needs it, but because WE need it to become better people.

So the ultimate hoarder of wealth, the Pope, hasn't found god yet? Is that your final answer? ;biggrin:

Did you miss the several different times I have already stated that I am not Catholic? Quite obviously, I think the Catholic Church is mistaken in its doctrine and practice, since I have chosen not to join them. Beyond that, the relationship to God between that church and/or any of its members is none of my business.

I will state, in their defense, that the Catholic Church does and has done more to directly aid the needy throughout its history than any of the sanctimonious leftwingers who like to take potshots at them have ever even contemplated.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

But didn't god make the universe and the conditions were there at the beginning so that evil would flourish? Or something like that?

God made the universe with the conditions there at the beginning for humans to choose between good and evil. Free will is pointless if you don't have the option of being wrong.

It is an interesting question to try to resolve WHY did God create the Universe, the galaxies, and the Earth ??

My hypothesis about this is the classic Lonely God theory -- He/She/It wanted to have friends.

Well, we are told that God created mankind for companionship, so that's certainly an aspect. On the other hand, the universe is a rather large and complex endeavor for just that one purpose. Also, it's never been my experience of God that He does anything without multiple purposes being fulfilled.

It is my belief that there is a lot more going on here than just this one planet and the short little lives we live on it. I think there is an ultimate Purpose for which we are destined, and for which this life is designed to prepare us.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what that might be.

Maybe god wanted lots of friends and there's life all throughout the universe. Ever think of that?

Maybe when you read my posts, you should attempt to understand the meaning of the words. Ever think of THAT?