What Happened to Church?

[Cecilie1200]

You're still trying to derail the thread. It's about what happened to the church, not the 535th time you've tried to convince yourself that God isn't real.

I asked you about your church and you wouldn't answer. So now, fuck off.

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I asked you about your church and you wouldn't answer. So now, fuck off.

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

They seem to believe that God and salvation are commodities which need to be marketed to the world, with advertising campaigns tailoring Christianity to appeal to its enemies.

 

[yiostheoy]

If you look up into the night's sky on any moonless night now during the summer in the Northern Hemisphere, you can see the Andromeda Galaxy in the sky just to the south of the W of the constellation Cassiopeia.

 

[yiostheoy]

I asked you about your church and you wouldn't answer. So now, fuck off.

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

Vastness leads to many topics.

 

[Marion Morrison]

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

They seem to believe that God and salvation are commodities which need to be marketed to the world, with advertising campaigns tailoring Christianity to appeal to its enemies.

Avoid that church, then.

 

[yiostheoy]

On Earth, currently, God is a topic used for money grubbing and wars.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

You're still obsessed with money. Until you get past that, you'll never move forward. One last time, God doesn't need money, human institutions do. You want the free and easy road, to be selfish with your material belongings, and to have God give you everything without expecting anything from you. That's just not the way it works. Salvation and relationship with God are easily obtained but growth requires commitment and yes, sacrifice.

In the interest of refusing to be derailed from the purpose of the thread, this false religion has infected the church to the point where many pastors refuse to talk about sin and won't condemn it in their own congregations, or even identify it. They no longer differentiate between the faithful and the non believers, and even don't realize that there are those who are out to destroy the church from within. Church is becoming more entertainment oriented than holiness oriented.

Can I find god without giving money to a church? If the answer is no, then you're trying to scam me.

No. As long as your focus is on hoarding your material goods and wealth, you can never find God. You can't even begin to LOOK for Him when your eyes are on your wallet.

God expects us to give of ourselves and to sacrifice, not because HE needs it, but because WE need it to become better people.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

nobody is 'giving money to God', they're giving it to the church itself and some for charities. Some have missionary funds, building funds, school funds, sports team funds, etc.

Grow up; you're just a sociopath and even your Mommy hates you.

He's just trying to derail the thread. It's about the church, but he keeps yammering about money.

I'm talking about false churches that scam you out of money, when finding god is free.

Amazingly enough, WE are not talking about "false churches that [sic] scam you out of money", because that isn't the topic.

If you want to talk about your obsession with other people's finances, go start your own thread.

 

[Cecilie1200]

C.S. Lewis explains....

He should have stuck with Narnia.

And that is a productive contribution to the thread topic in what way?

 

[Cecilie1200]

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

I note you pass on deformed babies and cancer.

Is this a thread about deformed babies and cancer? No? Then go start a thread about that, instead of trying to hijack this one.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm agnostic, we only go to services on holidays and special events shows anyway,

You pray to a deity you don't know exists? No wonder I'm out of my depth in faith threads.

It might have something to do with you contracting Taz Disease, and thinking every faith thread is about "I hate God, Christians are stoooopid, stop believing in God RIGHT NOW!"

Let me save you some time, thread-jacker.

You hate God, and the very concept of God existing. Somehow, He will manage to soldier on without you.

You think Christians are stupid for believing in God. I do not have time right now to get around to not giving a crap about your opinion; perhaps in a few years, I can pencil in a few moments to not care.

You think you have all manner of pithy, incisive "Gotcha!" points for showing how right you are. You don't, and no one here is interested in explaining why your lack of understanding proves nothing but your lack of intelligence.

Now that we have that settled, post on-topic or go hump someone else's leg. Your choice.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

I attend church about twice or so every year, and I immediately feel sufficiently churched at that moment, at least for another several months.

It's only when I miss church for several years in a row that I no longer feel sufficiently churched.

One might wonder exactly what you are expecting to get from church, and how you define "sufficiently churched", in that case.

 

[DOTR]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Churches don't "hit up". They pass an offering plate, you contribute or you don't, and you're still welcome to attend whether you give or not.

If you attended church, you'd know that.

I attended church. If there was not a tithe envope with my parents' name on it, or if the pastor felt it was too light, he would call my parents and ask why. So maybe you shouldn't generalize from your own meager personal experience.

Maybe YOU shouldn't.

Thanks, but I didn't.

Yeah, you never, ever spend your time decrying the splinter in your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own. Uh huh. Move along. As usual, you have nothing whatsoever of value to offer.

Get away from the non denominational denomination Cecille. It’s shallow entertainment. Eventually they all shed the Christian aspects.
And Hillsong is a cancer.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Not at all. Your idea of God is illogical. Besides I can't imagine a God that could possibly be nicer than one who was born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer an agonizing death for us. Your problem is that you lack complete knowledge in your understanding of God.

I understand that god made everything, including evil, cancer and deformed babies.

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

But didn't god make the universe and the conditions were there at the beginning so that evil would flourish? Or something like that?

God made the universe with the conditions there at the beginning for humans to choose between good and evil. Free will is pointless if you don't have the option of being wrong.

It is an interesting question to try to resolve WHY did God create the Universe, the galaxies, and the Earth ??

My hypothesis about this is the classic Lonely God theory -- He/She/It wanted to have friends.

Well, we are told that God created mankind for companionship, so that's certainly an aspect. On the other hand, the universe is a rather large and complex endeavor for just that one purpose. Also, it's never been my experience of God that He does anything without multiple purposes being fulfilled.

It is my belief that there is a lot more going on here than just this one planet and the short little lives we live on it. I think there is an ultimate Purpose for which we are destined, and for which this life is designed to prepare us.

And no, I have absolutely no idea what that might be.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

Try the next church. Preferably one that adheres to the Word and Spirit of God with no theatrics. When I was a kid, I and my best friend went to about every church in the area. I determined the best local one was the Black M.E. (whatever that means) Baptist church.

Oh, I am. And I'm doing a lot of praying on the subject, because God has somewhere He needs me to be, and something He needs me to do, and I need to be listening for His directions to it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And they are better off for that too. There is only one God. It’s not like there’s a smorgasbord of Gods out there. He doesn’t care what name you call him. He answers to many.

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Only if you believe man is capable of understanding God, Taz. Is that what you believe?

Or is it possible that they are trying to use man’s understanding to relate to something man is incapable of understanding.

^^^^^ MASSIVE MUMBO JUMBO ALERT! (it happens when you're stumped )

The universe and God are both too big and complex to fit into human understanding. Especially when the human in question is you.

Sorry if pointing out that you're one small, short-lived organism with a limited intelligence and comprehension in a vast cosmos is too "mumbo-jumbo" for you.

My explanation for all this vastness is that there is one God per Galaxy.

Thus there are probably about 200 billion God's in the Universe.

And since each galaxy has about 200 billion stars, with each star having probably 1 livable Earth, there are about 4 x 10[22] livable planets.

This further suggests there are 4 x 10[32] humanoids living in the Universe.

Math is the key to understanding.

Math and a good telescope.

4 x 10[32] = 4 followed by 32 zeroes.

400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Why?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're leaving the thread? Okay.

I'll get back to it: god should cost any money, making church a scam.

And, to stick with the thread topic, the church has watered down and weakened the message of the Gospel to the point that the gospel of prosperity and ease has gained traction. You're a prime example of that poison, wanting a God that expects nothing from you but gives you everything regardless. Down that road lies powerless, unfulfilling, false religion, not relationship.

God doesn't need our money, so finding god should be free. You've been scammed. Or did Jesus have ushers hit people up for money every time they came to hear him speak?

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

Vastness leads to many topics.

Yeah, but this thread doesn't. I have something I really want to talk about and explore, and my always-limited patience has run out with Taz and the Tazettes hijacking and derailing every vaguely religious thread so that the only thing that ever gets discussed is their religiophobia.

 

[Marion Morrison]

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Only if you believe man is capable of understanding God, Taz. Is that what you believe?

Or is it possible that they are trying to use man’s understanding to relate to something man is incapable of understanding.

^^^^^ MASSIVE MUMBO JUMBO ALERT! (it happens when you're stumped )

The universe and God are both too big and complex to fit into human understanding. Especially when the human in question is you.

Sorry if pointing out that you're one small, short-lived organism with a limited intelligence and comprehension in a vast cosmos is too "mumbo-jumbo" for you.

My explanation for all this vastness is that there is one God per Galaxy.

Thus there are probably about 200 billion God's in the Universe.

And since each galaxy has about 200 billion stars, with each star having probably 1 livable Earth, there are about 4 x 10[22] livable planets.

This further suggests there are 4 x 10[32] humanoids living in the Universe.

Math is the key to understanding.

Math and a good telescope.

4 x 10[32] = 4 followed by 32 zeroes.

400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Why?

 

[Taz]

My idea of god is nicer than your god, does that piss you off?

It does nothing to us except reinforce what has happened to the church. Instead of pushing back against that false teaching, the church has absorbed the desire for an easy religion that doesn't demand anything from the person and tried to become what people want.

Obviously, it's a false teaching and if that's all you want, go find a social group to feel good in that caters to you, but it's not Christianity.

You worship the hide n' seek god whom you have a hard time finding, so you study, you listen to explanations, and you generally just follow what someone else made up. God shouldn't have to be so hard, and it should be free because it doesn't need our money.

God isn’t hard to find.

Then why are so many people not finding your god? (Including all the people who have found a different god).

Because, like you, they're too busy congratulating themselves on how "superior" they are and how they therefore don't need to look for Him.

Lots of people find other gods.

 

[Taz]

You worship the hide n' seek god whom you have a hard time finding, so you study, you listen to explanations, and you generally just follow what someone else made up. God shouldn't have to be so hard, and it should be free because it doesn't need our money.

God isn’t hard to find.

Then why are so many people not finding your god? (Including all the people who have found a different god).

Because like you they have never looked.

Oh come on, everyone is looking for answers, and some people have found other gods. Actually, your god is in the minority.

Looking for answers is not the same thing as looking for the RIGHT answers. All too many people are looking for the answers that they WANT to be true.

Like you.