What Happened to Church?

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

You can smoke weed in some churches now. I’d go to that.

Fascinating.

If it's at all possible, do you think you could trouble yourself to post something actually having to do with the topic of the thread?

 

[Taz]

That's your answer when you're stumped.

No, that's my answer when you try to make the topic "Look at me! Look at me! I hate God, and Christians are stooopid!"

Now get back on topic and stop piddling on the rug, Fido.

Does your god give out 72 virgins at the church you go to, or is that some other god?

So different churches and religion means different gods?

Unless you can explain to me what this incoherent question has to do with the topic, you know what the answer is going to be.

Talking about churches and you quest to find a new one. So do all the churches of different religions all worship the same god?

 

[Taz]

Either they preach God's word and his Spirit is in the building, or not.

It's not that simple. There's preaching God's word, and then there's preaching God's word.

Let's go back to the church I was in Sunday. Technically, the sermon was in the Word, and it was Biblically correct. The problem with it was that it was on a level more appropriate to a children's Sunday school class. My third-grader would have found it profound and revelatory, but I would have serious questions about any adult - even a non-Christian - who felt greatly edified and enlightened by being informed that envy and coveting rot your spirit and lead to unhappiness. That's not exactly a newsflash.

And that is only addressing ONE of the ways in which church is supposed to enrich us and mature us in our relationship with God.

The preacher has to talk down to people and this surprises you?

You don't understand a frigging thing you ever read, and that surprises me not at all.

You just said it was like a Sunday school class. So he was talk8ng down to people. What don’t you get?

Why you think you're in any position to feel superior to any other living creature on Earth, and why you think anyone is interested in listening to you delude yourself about it.

And no, dear, he wasn't talking down to people. I would object to that, were it the case, but in this case I'm objecting because he actually didn't have any deeper revelation to offer. Man's halfway to ordination, and he's no more advanced in Christianity than a children's Sunday School class. I have a problem with that.

Admittedly, I've been very spoiled. Two of the three long-term pastors in my life routinely made reference to things like the meanings of key words in the original Greek text (or Hebrew, or Aramaic, or whatever was appropriate) and classical philosophy and theologians like Saint Francis de Assisi. At the very least, I would expect the guy to cross-reference to other relevant places in the Bible which explain what God DOES expect us to do, as Christians, about envy and covetousness.

I'm afraid, "Psychology Today tells us that envy is an emotion which occurs when a person lacks another's superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it" is not really gonna cut it for me spiritually.

I bet you felt superior to everyone at that simpleton church.

 

[Taz]

We're talking about church. What's this thread about anyways?

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

So I was asking if Jesus' church/ministry had ushers strong arming people for money?

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

Aren’t we talking about church and your inability to find one that meets your intellectual level?

 

[Taz]

So the ultimate hoarder of wealth, the Pope, hasn't found god yet? Is that your final answer? ;biggrin:

Did you miss the several different times I have already stated that I am not Catholic? Quite obviously, I think the Catholic Church is mistaken in its doctrine and practice, since I have chosen not to join them. Beyond that, the relationship to God between that church and/or any of its members is none of my business.

I will state, in their defense, that the Catholic Church does and has done more to directly aid the needy throughout its history than any of the sanctimonious leftwingers who like to take potshots at them have ever even contemplated.

So because YOU haven't joined the Pope's brach of Christianity, he's wrong?

In what way?

Look up "Cause and Effect", Mensa Boy. He's not wrong because I haven't joined his church. I haven't joined his church because I believe him - and it - to be wrong.

As with everything else, you got it ass-backward.

Also, this is not a thread about the doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants, and it's not going to become one. Feel free to Google it.

But the pope thinks he’s right and he has more pull and followers than you do.

Right and wrong aren't decided by a vote.

But isn’t the pope closer to god than anyone else?

 

[Taz]

Maybe god wanted lots of friends and there's life all throughout the universe. Ever think of that?

Maybe when you read my posts, you should attempt to understand the meaning of the words. Ever think of THAT?

So god is a lonely loser and has to make up his own friends? Is that why you follow him?

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, that's my answer when you try to make the topic "Look at me! Look at me! I hate God, and Christians are stooopid!"

Now get back on topic and stop piddling on the rug, Fido.

Does your god give out 72 virgins at the church you go to, or is that some other god?

So different churches and religion means different gods?

Unless you can explain to me what this incoherent question has to do with the topic, you know what the answer is going to be.

Talking about churches and you quest to find a new one. So do all the churches of different religions all worship the same god?

Topic is actually how many Christian churches have changed and whether or not it is for the better.

And no, obviously all religions do not worship the same god. They sometimes don't worship the same god even when they think they do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not that simple. There's preaching God's word, and then there's preaching God's word.

Let's go back to the church I was in Sunday. Technically, the sermon was in the Word, and it was Biblically correct. The problem with it was that it was on a level more appropriate to a children's Sunday school class. My third-grader would have found it profound and revelatory, but I would have serious questions about any adult - even a non-Christian - who felt greatly edified and enlightened by being informed that envy and coveting rot your spirit and lead to unhappiness. That's not exactly a newsflash.

And that is only addressing ONE of the ways in which church is supposed to enrich us and mature us in our relationship with God.

The preacher has to talk down to people and this surprises you?

You don't understand a frigging thing you ever read, and that surprises me not at all.

You just said it was like a Sunday school class. So he was talk8ng down to people. What don’t you get?

Why you think you're in any position to feel superior to any other living creature on Earth, and why you think anyone is interested in listening to you delude yourself about it.

And no, dear, he wasn't talking down to people. I would object to that, were it the case, but in this case I'm objecting because he actually didn't have any deeper revelation to offer. Man's halfway to ordination, and he's no more advanced in Christianity than a children's Sunday School class. I have a problem with that.

Admittedly, I've been very spoiled. Two of the three long-term pastors in my life routinely made reference to things like the meanings of key words in the original Greek text (or Hebrew, or Aramaic, or whatever was appropriate) and classical philosophy and theologians like Saint Francis de Assisi. At the very least, I would expect the guy to cross-reference to other relevant places in the Bible which explain what God DOES expect us to do, as Christians, about envy and covetousness.

I'm afraid, "Psychology Today tells us that envy is an emotion which occurs when a person lacks another's superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it" is not really gonna cut it for me spiritually.

I bet you felt superior to everyone at that simpleton church.

I feel superior to most people as a general rule. Not really germane to the discussion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

So I was asking if Jesus' church/ministry had ushers strong arming people for money?

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

Aren’t we talking about church and your inability to find one that meets your intellectual level?

No.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Did you miss the several different times I have already stated that I am not Catholic? Quite obviously, I think the Catholic Church is mistaken in its doctrine and practice, since I have chosen not to join them. Beyond that, the relationship to God between that church and/or any of its members is none of my business.

I will state, in their defense, that the Catholic Church does and has done more to directly aid the needy throughout its history than any of the sanctimonious leftwingers who like to take potshots at them have ever even contemplated.

So because YOU haven't joined the Pope's brach of Christianity, he's wrong?

In what way?

Look up "Cause and Effect", Mensa Boy. He's not wrong because I haven't joined his church. I haven't joined his church because I believe him - and it - to be wrong.

As with everything else, you got it ass-backward.

Also, this is not a thread about the doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants, and it's not going to become one. Feel free to Google it.

But the pope thinks he’s right and he has more pull and followers than you do.

Right and wrong aren't decided by a vote.

But isn’t the pope closer to god than anyone else?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Maybe when you read my posts, you should attempt to understand the meaning of the words. Ever think of THAT?

So god is a lonely loser and has to make up his own friends? Is that why you follow him?

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

 

[buttercup]

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

^ Clearly someone who has never experienced a good church. I absolutely love going to the churches I go to, it is the exact opposite of a waste of time. I can't even put it into words, it's something you have to experience yourself... which evidently you never have.

 

[buttercup]

So god is a lonely loser and has to make up his own friends? Is that why you follow him?

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

From what I've seen, you've been very patient with that person. It's kind of sad that someone would put that much time into childish trolling. Also it's kind of funny how a lot of atheists seem to be obsessed with God.

 

[ding]

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

I note you pass on deformed babies and cancer.

I’ve answered this one a dozen times too. How many times do you think I will need to explain it to you? Or will you just admit that since you don’t believe that there is a force that binds is all together that you believe this is a nonsensical question for you to ask in the first place.

 

[ding]

C.S. Lewis explains....

He should have stuck with Narnia.

I get that a lot. Funny thing is no one who does that is able to logically demonstrate his logic is flawed. It appears that militant atheists are not deep thinkers.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

From what I've seen, you've been very patient with that person. It's kind of sad that someone would put that much time into childish trolling. Also it's kind of funny how a lot of atheists seem to be obsessed with God.

Hating God seems to be more of a religion to them than believing in God is to some Christians.

 

[Cecilie1200]

C.S. Lewis explains....

He should have stuck with Narnia.

I get that a lot. Funny thing is no one who does that is able to logically demonstrate his logic is flawed. It appears that militant atheists are not deep thinkers.

What can you expect of people who make a religion out of NOT believing in something?

 

[ding]

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

But didn't god make the universe and the conditions were there at the beginning so that evil would flourish? Or something like that?

What part of evil is not extant did you not comprehend?

Explain it and we'll see, because it appears to simply be one of your stock gibberish answers to questions you can't answer.

God’s spirit is within you. When he removes it you will then realize what you lost.

So you can prove that that could happen?

Anyone can prove God’s spirit is within them, Taz. Not everyone will have it withdrawn from them. Only the ones who want him too.

Logic proves it will happen. If you don’t change your ways you will prove it.

 

[ding]

C.S. Lewis explains....

He should have stuck with Narnia.

I get that a lot. Funny thing is no one who does that is able to logically demonstrate his logic is flawed. It appears that militant atheists are not deep thinkers.

What can you expect of people who make a religion out of NOT believing in something?

That the best they can hope for in this world is to suffer without complaint. You can tell the ones who will fail at that by their actions.

 

[ding]

Because like you they have never looked.

Oh come on, everyone is looking for answers, and some people have found other gods. Actually, your god is in the minority.

And they are better off for that too. There is only one God. It’s not like there’s a smorgasbord of Gods out there. He doesn’t care what name you call him. He answers to many.

So your god gives out 72 virgins like Allah does? Does your god tell you to kill Jews and Christians?

Only if you believe man is capable of understanding God, Taz. Is that what you believe?

Or is it possible that they are trying to use man’s understanding to relate to something man is incapable of understanding.

^^^^^ MASSIVE MUMBO JUMBO ALERT! (it happens when you're stumped )

You accuse others of what you do, Taz.