What Happened to Church?

[ding]

It sounds to me that you want "God Lite." All of the good and none of the less pleasant consequences. You want a God that gives the you emotional comfort of believing in God and none of that messy baggage of being virtuous. You want a tame God. You want a God you can switch on and off when it suits you. All the thrills of religion and none of the cost. Your "God Lite" is the greatest achievement of wishful thinking the world has ever seen.

My idea of god is nicer than your god, does that piss you off?

Not at all. Your idea of God is illogical. Besides I can't imagine a God that could possibly be nicer than one who was born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer an agonizing death for us. Your problem is that you lack complete knowledge in your understanding of God.

I understand that god made everything, including evil, cancer and deformed babies.

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

In Taz's case, "evil" is defined as "things I don't personally like".

Taz doesn’t believe in absolute morality until someone behaves immorally to her. Then she is all for it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My idea of god is nicer than your god, does that piss you off?

Not at all. Your idea of God is illogical. Besides I can't imagine a God that could possibly be nicer than one who was born into this world to testify to the truth and suffer an agonizing death for us. Your problem is that you lack complete knowledge in your understanding of God.

I understand that god made everything, including evil, cancer and deformed babies.

We’ve been over this a dozen times. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good.

In Taz's case, "evil" is defined as "things I don't personally like".

Taz doesn’t believe in absolute morality until someone behaves immorally to her. Then she is all for it.

Well, that's not just Taz. That's not even just atheists, or leftists, or any other group. That's kinda a humanity thing.

CS Lewis said:

"But the most remarkable thing is this. whenever you find a man who says he does not believe in a real right and Wrong, you will find the same man going back on this a moment later. He may break his promise to you, but if you try breaking on to him he will be complaining 'It's not fair' before you can say Jack Robinson. A nation may say treaties do not matter, but then, next minute, they spoil their case by saying that the particular treaty they want to break was an unfair one. But if treaties do not matter, and if there is no such thing as Right and Wrong--in other words, if there is no Law of Nature--what is the difference between a fair treaty and an unfair one? Have they not let the cat out of the bag and shown that, whatever they say, they really know the Law of Nature just like anyone else?"

 

[Luddly Neddite]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

I'll tell you what I keep telling Taz:

 

[TheOldSchool]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

You can smoke weed in some churches now. I’d go to that.

Fascinating.

If it's at all possible, do you think you could trouble yourself to post something actually having to do with the topic of the thread?

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

^ Clearly someone who has never experienced a good church. I absolutely love going to the churches I go to, it is the exact opposite of a waste of time. I can't even put it into words, it's something you have to experience yourself... which evidently you never have.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

 

[buttercup]

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

I've read the psalms. They don't pertain to reality.

 

[buttercup]

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

I've read the psalms. They don't pertain to reality.

lol. You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change what I said. I don't know any Christians who go to church for that reason, and I think that is absurd and and twisted.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

 

[LittleNipper]

.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

 

[TheOldSchool]

.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

That's what the pagan religions of antiquity said about the religions that came before theirs too.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

"Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone."


the religion of Antiquity is inclusive and can not be preached there is only one guiding principle, for everyone to be triumphant for there to be Admission to the Everlasting.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

You can smoke weed in some churches now. I’d go to that.

Fascinating.

If it's at all possible, do you think you could trouble yourself to post something actually having to do with the topic of the thread?

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

^ Clearly someone who has never experienced a good church. I absolutely love going to the churches I go to, it is the exact opposite of a waste of time. I can't even put it into words, it's something you have to experience yourself... which evidently you never have.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

Am I missing the point at which the topic of this thread became "Tell me how much you don't like church"? Because I certainly don't remember asking.

 

[Cecilie1200]

.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

"Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone."


the religion of Antiquity is inclusive and can not be preached there is only one guiding principle, for everyone to be triumphant for there to be Admission to the Everlasting.

All right, enough. This is not a thread about "religion of antiquity", any more than it's about how much you don't like church and why.

If that's what you want to talk about, start your own thread for it. Do not come hijack this one.

THIS thread is about modern trends in Christian church services. Please address the topic, or go away.

 

[hadit]

Get. Back. On. Topic.

I swear, my 3-month-old kitten has a longer attention span than you do.

We're talking about church. What's this thread about anyways?

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

So I was asking if Jesus' church/ministry had ushers strong arming people for money?

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

I thought you didn't go to church. Which time were you lying?

 

[hadit]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

And not only learning, but developing true community through fellowship.

 

[hadit]

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

From what I've seen, you've been very patient with that person. It's kind of sad that someone would put that much time into childish trolling. Also it's kind of funny how a lot of atheists seem to be obsessed with God.

They're evangelical about their belief system. Interesting.

 

[hadit]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

"Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone."


the religion of Antiquity is inclusive and can not be preached there is only one guiding principle, for everyone to be triumphant for there to be Admission to the Everlasting.

All right, enough. This is not a thread about "religion of antiquity", any more than it's about how much you don't like church and why.

If that's what you want to talk about, start your own thread for it. Do not come hijack this one.

THIS thread is about modern trends in Christian church services. Please address the topic, or go away.

.

THIS thread is about modern trends in Christian church services. Please address the topic, or go away.

- modern trends in Christian church services ...

digressing from the phony 4th century christian religion and its trappings in search of the truth is the proper role for the modern church - is what you are confronting and is the subject matter for this thread.

 

[hadit]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

The skills I want to spend that time developing are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Humility, patience, and compassion would also be good. Which is why I want to spend that two hours a week - or even more (!) - in what has been the primary place for learning those skills for millennia.

You can smoke weed in some churches now. I’d go to that.

Fascinating.

If it's at all possible, do you think you could trouble yourself to post something actually having to do with the topic of the thread?

2 hour service? What a colossal waste of time. Think of the skills you could teach yourself dedicating 2 hours a week to it instead of sitting in a pew indulging your imagination.

^ Clearly someone who has never experienced a good church. I absolutely love going to the churches I go to, it is the exact opposite of a waste of time. I can't even put it into words, it's something you have to experience yourself... which evidently you never have.

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

That's not why you attend church.