What Happened to Church?

[hadit]

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

I thought you didn't go to church. Which time were you lying?

Pictures of people at church, news reports... you never see poor people or the down and out...

Go to a church in a poor part of town. There will be poor people there. They don't have to make the news to exist. In fact, the Gospel has less appeal for those blinded to their own spiritual need by earthly wealth.

The bottom line here is that you've been fed and believe a false caricature of Christianity and your bias makes it impossible for you to see the truth.

But why are churches separated into poor ones and richer ones? Shouldn't you be helping your fellow man? Does church give you your weekly dose of "Im a good person" and then you go on ignoring everyone else?

They're "separated" for the same reason you see the same types of people in a local grocery store, because people of roughly the same economic class tend to live around each other, so the local church will have that same grouping of people.

 

[hadit]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. push the right buttons on the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

No, it's the preacher who wants his flock to be like an ATM, so he caters to the lowest common denominator, and makes everyone feel loved.

And Ceci, say hi to Joel for me next Sunday. [emoji3]

Like I said, caricature. Go to a poor church and learn. And who is Ceci, one of the voices in your head?

 

[Cecilie1200]

.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

christian church's are social events - they mimick the religion of Antiquity to suit their own agenda.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

Christian Churches are the assembly of believers and that would indeed make them a social event, as was going to Solomon's Temple. Christians have faith and a directive: "Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone." The pagan religions of antiquity (with satan leading) are counterfeit --- their agenda is to confuse, distort, and manipulate.

"Go Ye unto all the world and preach the Good Message to everyone."


the religion of Antiquity is inclusive and can not be preached there is only one guiding principle, for everyone to be triumphant for there to be Admission to the Everlasting.

All right, enough. This is not a thread about "religion of antiquity", any more than it's about how much you don't like church and why.

If that's what you want to talk about, start your own thread for it. Do not come hijack this one.

THIS thread is about modern trends in Christian church services. Please address the topic, or go away.

.

THIS thread is about modern trends in Christian church services. Please address the topic, or go away.

- modern trends in Christian church services ...

digressing from the phony 4th century christian religion and its trappings in search of the truth is the proper role for the modern church - is what you are confronting and is the subject matter for this thread.

No, it isn't. Since it's my topic, I can speak definitively to the fact that no part of it involves anything from you about "phony" or the 4th century or anything else you want to shoehorn into each and every religious thread that comes up because you can't bear to have any conversation about religion that isn't about your attacks on it.

Go find a conversation to be in that actually involves you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You don't understand a frigging thing you ever read, and that surprises me not at all.

You just said it was like a Sunday school class. So he was talk8ng down to people. What don’t you get?

Why you think you're in any position to feel superior to any other living creature on Earth, and why you think anyone is interested in listening to you delude yourself about it.

And no, dear, he wasn't talking down to people. I would object to that, were it the case, but in this case I'm objecting because he actually didn't have any deeper revelation to offer. Man's halfway to ordination, and he's no more advanced in Christianity than a children's Sunday School class. I have a problem with that.

Admittedly, I've been very spoiled. Two of the three long-term pastors in my life routinely made reference to things like the meanings of key words in the original Greek text (or Hebrew, or Aramaic, or whatever was appropriate) and classical philosophy and theologians like Saint Francis de Assisi. At the very least, I would expect the guy to cross-reference to other relevant places in the Bible which explain what God DOES expect us to do, as Christians, about envy and covetousness.

I'm afraid, "Psychology Today tells us that envy is an emotion which occurs when a person lacks another's superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it" is not really gonna cut it for me spiritually.

I bet you felt superior to everyone at that simpleton church.

I feel superior to most people as a general rule. Not really germane to the discussion.

So how are you going to find a church if they're all populated by simpletons?

 

[Cecilie1200]

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

Aren’t we talking about church and your inability to find one that meets your intellectual level?

No.

So you're not looking for a church at your intellectual level?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Is there some part of "This thread is not about how much you hate God and think Christians are stupid" that you are having trouble grasping?

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

You holding your breath until Jesus comes back?

 

[Cecilie1200]

So back to church then, do you go to one of those creationist churches?

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

From what I've seen, you've been very patient with that person. It's kind of sad that someone would put that much time into childish trolling. Also it's kind of funny how a lot of atheists seem to be obsessed with God.

I'm agnostic as there is no proof either way for or against a god.

No one cares.

 

[Cecilie1200]

NOW what are you babbling about? What in the hell is "one of those creationist churches" supposed to mean?

Never mind. I decided I don't care. Here, figure it out for yourself.

Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Our Core Doctrines

I was into checking out the core doctrine but not in a long boring movie, got a link I can read?

So when is Jesus coming back? Soon?

From what I've seen, you've been very patient with that person. It's kind of sad that someone would put that much time into childish trolling. Also it's kind of funny how a lot of atheists seem to be obsessed with God.

Hating God seems to be more of a religion to them than believing in God is to some Christians.

I'm trying to find some actual proof of god, and will accept god if i find some.

See above, re: no one cares.

 

[Cecilie1200]

See above, re: no attention span.

There's an OP. Go read it, dimwit.

So I was asking if Jesus' church/ministry had ushers strong arming people for money?

And I was answering, yet again, that this thread is not in any way about money, or about your pathological obsession with other people's money.

For the record, every time you try to drag the thread down your "But MONEY!" tangent, that is going to be the answer, so you might as well write it down somewhere so you can remember.

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

I thought you didn't go to church. Which time were you lying?

Pictures of people at church, news reports... you never see poor people or the down and out...

 

[Cecilie1200]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite?

Humans tend to be stupid, and about as deep as a mud puddle. You are Exhibit A.

 

[Cecilie1200]

God made the universe with the conditions there at the beginning for humans to choose between good and evil. Free will is pointless if you don't have the option of being wrong.

An interesting point. Let YHWH know everything. Therefore he knows all that one will do. If what one will do is predetermined to the extent YHWH knows it, free will does not exist. But I don't think your post was on topic.

A, no one has suggested that anything is predetermined.

B, you don't get to post extraneous bullshit in an attempt to derail the thread, and then bitch about "off-topic" when someone is courteous enough to answer you, instead of telling you to take your pointless bullshit and go to a thread that actually involves you.

I realize that you think "It's about religion, and I hate religion, and I must tell everyone that I hate religion 60 times a day so that nothing about religion is ever discussed EXCEPT how much I hate it" somehow constitutes a compelling need for your irrelevant and unwelcome self to be present in every religion-related thread on this board, but I assure you, you're mistaken.

Topic is not free will vs. predetermination, nor is it religion sucks. The topic is modern vs. traditional church services and operation, and I sincerely doubt that you have a single pertinent thing to say.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Hating God seems to be more of a religion to them than believing in God is to some Christians.

I'm trying to find some actual proof of god, and will accept god if i find some.

No. You’re not. You are here to subordinate religion, specifically Christianity, and to show disrespect to people of faith, specifically Christians.

I make fun of you because you're a doofus, has nothing to do with your imaginary god.

You are here to subordinate religion, specifically Christianity, and to show disrespect to people of faith, specifically Christians

I call you on your bullshit and you feel threatened, I get it.

No, you harass people and then think you've scored some sort of victory when they become disgusted and annoyed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite?

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. push the right buttons on the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

No, it's the preacher who wants his flock to be like an ATM, so he caters to the lowest common denominator, and makes everyone feel loved.

And Ceci, say hi to Joel for me next Sunday.

Get. Back. On. Topic.

And maybe strain your brain enough to remember it, so I don't have to tell you every five minutes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But if treaties do not matter, and if there is no such thing as Right and Wrong--in other words, if there is no Law of Nature--what is the difference between a fair treaty and an unfair one?

The 'Law of Nature' here is a 'moral' law. Morals are community norms. This is demonstrated by the way moral behaviour differs as communities differ. Valid morals assist the survival of the community.

Thanks for sharing. Now stop trying to hijack the thread.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. push the right buttons on the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

No, it's the preacher who wants his flock to be like an ATM, so he caters to the lowest common denominator, and makes everyone feel loved.

And Ceci, say hi to Joel for me next Sunday. [emoji3]

Like I said, caricature. Go to a poor church and learn. And who is Ceci, one of the voices in your head?

Either he thinks he's being funny by shortening my name, or he's not bright enough to remember how to spell it beyond the first four letters. I'm never sure which.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

digressing from the phony 4th century christian religion and its trappings in search of the truth is the proper role for the modern church - is what you are confronting and is the subject matter for this thread.

Since it's my topic, I can speak definitively to the fact

The topic is modern vs. traditional church services and operation

I went to a new church for the first time this morning ... and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

... and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.


there is an obvious reason you do not relate to the modern church, your dogmas are no longer their glue that holds them together as they would far more live their lives in an open and free society. as was the goal of the 1st century whether you like reading about it or not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

.

digressing from the phony 4th century christian religion and its trappings in search of the truth is the proper role for the modern church - is what you are confronting and is the subject matter for this thread.

Since it's my topic, I can speak definitively to the fact

The topic is modern vs. traditional church services and operation

I went to a new church for the first time this morning ... and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

... and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.


there is an obvious reason you do not relate to the modern church, your dogmas are no longer their glue that holds them together as they would far more live their lives in an open and free society. as was the goal of the 1st century whether you like reading about it or not.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your in-depth knowledge of beliefs you despise and an institution you would never consider being part of. I feel so very enlightened to have things explained to me by people whose only contact with them is to vilify them with every other breath.

I devoutly hope that you have now gotten over your obsessive need to piss on everything you disagree with like an incontinent dog with a fire hydrant, and will now deprive us of your company so that people who are actually interested in and knowledgeable about the topic can go back to discussing it.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

digressing from the phony 4th century christian religion and its trappings in search of the truth is the proper role for the modern church - is what you are confronting and is the subject matter for this thread.

Since it's my topic, I can speak definitively to the fact

The topic is modern vs. traditional church services and operation

I went to a new church for the first time this morning ... and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

... and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.


there is an obvious reason you do not relate to the modern church, your dogmas are no longer their glue that holds them together as they would far more live their lives in an open and free society. as was the goal of the 1st century whether you like reading about it or not.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your in-depth knowledge of beliefs you despise and an institution you would never consider being part of. I feel so very enlightened to have things explained to me by people whose only contact with them is to vilify them with every other breath.

I devoutly hope that you have now gotten over your obsessive need to piss on everything you disagree with like an incontinent dog with a fire hydrant, and will now deprive us of your company so that people who are actually interested in and knowledgeable about the topic can go back to discussing it.

.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your in-depth knowledge of beliefs you despise and an institution you would never consider being part of. I feel so very enlightened to have things explained to me by people whose only contact with them is to vilify them with every other breath.

I devoutly hope that you have now gotten over your obsessive need to piss on everything you disagree with like an incontinent dog with a fire hydrant, and will now deprive us of your company so that people who are actually interested in and knowledgeable about the topic can go back to discussing it.

you really should try something other than slanderous monologues for a response, your old school church service has died a deserved death from within those congregations, they are reaching for the true religion of the 1st century the religion of Antiquity - they've had your type for centuries and have gotten nowhere - you should not start threads you are incapable of conducting a meaningful and open discussion in response.

 

[hadit]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.