What Happened to Church?

[flacaltenn]

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

I've read the psalms. They don't pertain to reality.

Neither does reality TV or children's fables. At least the Psalms and children stories usually have morals and ethics as the topics. Not SLAUGHTERING morality and ethics on a TV in your living room. Colossal wastes of time are relative. There's a scale from 1 to 10. And posting arrogant things about your dislike and distrust of Religion on a Message board is about a 2 IMO..

 

[TheOldSchool]

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

I've read the psalms. They don't pertain to reality.

Neither does reality TV or children's fables. At least the Psalms and children stories usually have morals and ethics as the topics. Not SLAUGHTERING morality and ethics on a TV in your living room. Colossal wastes of time are relative. There's a scale from 1 to 10. And posting arrogant things about your dislike and distrust of Religion on a Message board is about a 2 IMO..

People don't use children's fables to justify slaughter or as a reason to legislate away civil liberties.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bingo.

Religions that are based on a god are rip offs.

You pays your money and you never know if you really get to go to heaven.

Meanwhile, "christians" are working really really really hard to harm the very people they say their god and Jesus worked to help and to save.

The whole racket disgusts me.

But hey, the gullible are more than welcome to it.

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

 

[flacaltenn]

I've been to great churches. Was in a praise band for the sake of a girl I dated. Loved the people there. Grew up going to church. Everyone I knew went there. But every single Sunday (or more) of your life, to attend something out of fear of eternal damnation.... Jesus Christ.

You actually think that is why people go to church? I don't go out of fear of eternal damnation, and no Christian I know goes to church for that reason. That doesn't even make any sense. Read Psalm 27:1.

I've read the psalms. They don't pertain to reality.

Neither does reality TV or children's fables. At least the Psalms and children stories usually have morals and ethics as the topics. Not SLAUGHTERING morality and ethics on a TV in your living room. Colossal wastes of time are relative. There's a scale from 1 to 10. And posting arrogant things about your dislike and distrust of Religion on a Message board is about a 2 IMO..

People don't use children's fables to justify slaughter or as a reason to legislate away civil liberties.

It's OK to persecute trolls in children's tales. Ask Shrek. No Christians/Jews/Hindus have been justifying slaughter for centuries. That was the millieu of the olden times. And most of that was because religion BECAME state sponsored. We fixed that. So did most of the Western world. As for "taking away" rights, those would be hotly contested debates WITHOUT religious influence.

What I DO KNOW is that most every VITAL Civil Rights struggle fought in the last 300 years was LED by religious leaders and people of faith.. WHY? Because religious folks have a HUMBLE view of the power of govt to abuse and persecute. And don't believe man is omniscient or all that moral or wise. So they have dignity beyond what any man can TAKE from them.

So when you're sitting in a concentration camp or the back of a bus ---- YOUR rights are virtually nill. Except with God and faith.

 

[Taz]

So he didn’t by your response. So why rip people off today? Should christ’s ministry be free? And what about poor people, I never see them at church.

I thought you didn't go to church. Which time were you lying?

Pictures of people at church, news reports... you never see poor people or the down and out...

Go to a church in a poor part of town. There will be poor people there. They don't have to make the news to exist. In fact, the Gospel has less appeal for those blinded to their own spiritual need by earthly wealth.

The bottom line here is that you've been fed and believe a false caricature of Christianity and your bias makes it impossible for you to see the truth.

But why are churches separated into poor ones and richer ones? Shouldn't you be helping your fellow man? Does church give you your weekly dose of "Im a good person" and then you go on ignoring everyone else?

They're "separated" for the same reason you see the same types of people in a local grocery store, because people of roughly the same economic class tend to live around each other, so the local church will have that same grouping of people.

That's bullshit, churches only want people with money.

 

[ding]

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

Wrong. Being a Christian is hard work. Few succeed. But that doesn't mean there aren't benefits from trying. It's a process; a journey. The reward is in the journey, not the destination.

 

[ding]

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Ya, but people want a band that's culturally relevant to them. Why do you see that as bad?

Because anyone can find peace when everything is fine and dandy, but only a select few can find peace through the storm.

Hadit is correct that lessons are learned during hardships, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't teach that prosperity is achieved through the practice of naturally successful behaviors like virtue.

What they need to teach with their prosperity gospel is that the seeds of failure are sown during times of success and that vigilance is required.

 

[Taz]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

Wrong. Being a Christian is hard work. Few succeed. But that doesn't mean there aren't benefits from trying. It's a process; a journey. The reward is in the journey, not the destination.

So there's no reward at the end to be with god? And what's the point of making it so hard to be a Christian that few can get there?

 

[ding]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Ya, but people want a band that's culturally relevant to them. Why do you see that as bad?

Because anyone can find peace when everything is fine and dandy, but only a select few can find peace through the storm.

Hadit is correct that lessons are learned during hardships, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't teach that prosperity is achieved through the practice of naturally successful behaviors like virtue.

What they need to teach with their prosperity gospel is that the seeds of failure are sown during times of success and that vigilance is required.

Wow, that's pretty incoherent, even for you.

I'm sorry you couldn't understand what I wrote. I'm not sure I can explain it anymore clearly.

I wonder if Hadit understood. Because it just might be the problem is you.

 

[hadit]

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

Wrong. Being a Christian is hard work. Few succeed. But that doesn't mean there aren't benefits from trying. It's a process; a journey. The reward is in the journey, not the destination.

So there's no reward at the end to be with god? And what's the point of making it so hard to be a Christian that few can get there?

Why don't you start a thread on that subject?

 

[hadit]

So, what do you think has been happening to the church the last generation or so? You know, to actually address the topic and all.

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Ya, but people want a band that's culturally relevant to them. Why do you see that as bad?

I don't, and nothing I said would indicate that.

 

[hadit]

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

That is false.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

That is false.

Utterly, but then, everything Taz ever says can be described that way.

 

[Taz]

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

That is false.

Utterly, but then, everything Taz ever says can be described that way.

He says it's false, but he can't actually refute what I said. Sorta like you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, on the church-hunting front . . . I attended a new church yesterday. They had one innovation from the churches I grew up in, of which I wholeheartedly approve. They open their Sunday services with a half-hour "coffee klatsch", where they provide free coffee and doughnuts, and attendees can get acquainted and/or catch up on news of the week, and then head off to their Sunday School classes together. They are VERY conscious of new attendees, and there is not a chance in the world of getting out of that church without a full dozen members coming up to greet you and tell you how pleased they are that you joined them that day.

I am pleased to report that they not only have altars, but they make use of them. The service ended a little early, but they mentioned that that was largely because it was conducted by their interim pastor (who is normally their youth pastor), because they are in the middle of finding a new pastor to replace the one who just retired. I am equally pleased to report that, despite his relative youth and inexperience, the interim pastor nevertheless managed to produce an in-depth and meaningful sermon.

There was nary a fog machine in sight.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Hey, I have no problem with culturally relevant. Like I said, I'm not my grandma, griping that any religious music written later than the 19th century is of the devil. Lord knows, I love being able to read along in the Bible on my smartphone, instead of having to carry a Bible with me. And certainly, you have to relate what God wants from us as His people to the society in which we have to achieve that.

But I'm a conservative by nature. I believe that newer is not always better, and traditions exist for a reason. You need to examine what that reason is, and think hard about whether or not it still applies, and whether or not what you want to replace it with is going to accomplish that purpose. And I believe that the things most worth having in life require dedication and hard work. When being a Christian receives less time and attention than leveling your character in World of Warcraft, you're doing it wrong.

But it's a lot harder to level in Warcraft than it is to be a Christian. Giving money once a week absolves the giver of any further Christian action as they consider that "oh, they'll use that money for good, I won't do it, but someone surely will."

That is false.

Utterly, but then, everything Taz ever says can be described that way.

He says it's false, but he can't actually refute what I said. Sorta like you.

You mistake not thinking you're worth the effort with being unable to do so.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Ya, but people want a band that's culturally relevant to them. Why do you see that as bad?

I don't, and nothing I said would indicate that.

So you'd prefer dull organ music? Why am I not surprised?

Wrong. The problem isn't the type of music or the instruments used to produce it; the problem is the difference between a performance and an interactive experience.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Dull old schools churches are closing and Joel Osteen showbiz type churches are taking over. Mainly because most Christians are too stupid to contemplate something deeply. Ceci, amirite or amirite? [emoji3]

The prosperity gospel is a false teaching that is popular because people want God to be an ATM. Push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall into your lap. They don't like to hear that they're expected to be in relationship with a living God who expects them to live a certain way.

They want to control God. It doesn't work that way.

You're not wrong. The distaste humans feel for anything being difficult or requiring work and effort and sacrifice has been a problem for Christianity and churches from the beginning. Remember the story of the rich man Jesus told to take up his cross and follow Him? The guy was talking to the Messiah, and he went away all sad because he thought it was an excessive request. Modern people don't have a corner on the market of demanding that everything be easy and comforting and no-muss, no-fuss.

That is correct. Sadly though, I see an awful lot of modern Christians wanting things to be easy then wondering what happened when life gets tough. They don't realize that's when growth happens. We need to preach the whole Gospel, not just the feel good parts.

The Church has always had to be culturally relevant while remaining true to the Gospel.

Ya, but people want a band that's culturally relevant to them. Why do you see that as bad?

Because anyone can find peace when everything is fine and dandy, but only a select few can find peace through the storm.

Hadit is correct that lessons are learned during hardships, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't teach that prosperity is achieved through the practice of naturally successful behaviors like virtue.

What they need to teach with their prosperity gospel is that the seeds of failure are sown during times of success and that vigilance is required.

What they need is to stop teaching people that God is a vending machine. Jesus told the rich man to "take up your cross and follow me". He did NOT say "take up your bags of gold, climb into your Mercedes, and drive".

 

[koshergrl]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

What branch of the Christian tree is this?

I believe they're non-denominational, which usually means they're very similar in doctrine and practice to the AG, without attaching themselves to the heirarchy of the AG.

Sounds like what my eldest son is an ordained minister of...But I was raised in a Baptist church(gothic-renaissance style) in the SouthWest but it wasn't the Southern Baptist or Fire and Brimstone style. It was mild-mannered and closer to a Methodist service...(Sleeping optional)

I don't agree with the doctrines of the Baptist Church, so that's not really an option. If, for some reason, I lived somewhere that only had a Baptist Church, I would go, but I doubt I'd ever agree to live somewhere that didn't have a suitable church.

What is AG?

If you're moved by old fashioned, traditional hymns you have to find an old fashioned, traditional church.

 

[koshergrl]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Churches don't "hit up". They pass an offering plate, you contribute or you don't, and you're still welcome to attend whether you give or not.

If you attended church, you'd know that.

I went to church as a youngin'. They pass the plate around, as everyone gives you the eye to see what you're dropping in. What did you give? What's the going rate today?

None of your business, nosy. Seems like you acquired a little too much of the "giving the eye" mentality.

Can't say as I've ever noticed people paying all that much attention to it in the churches I've attended. They typically do it during the song service, and people are more focused on that than on the plate going by.

If you don't reply anything, I'll know you gave at least $40, if not more.

We're supposed to give 1/10 of our gross.