What Happened to Church?

[Picaro]

How much did they hit you up for that?

Churches don't "hit up". They pass an offering plate, you contribute or you don't, and you're still welcome to attend whether you give or not.

If you attended church, you'd know that.

Yea but you aren’t a member unless you pay

the Peanut Gallery can as usual dismiss this piece of propaganda, since one can easily find the income surveys of U.S. and Canadian pastors and ministers online, and of course the claim they're making vast riches is laughably stupid. One can make as much money or more than many working at a fast food store than pasting the average church. the leadership of the Socialist Party makes a lot more than the average pastor, certainly Bernie and Pocahontas do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

For most people nowadays going to church is just keeping up with the Joneses

I won’t argue that we as a people have not forgotten God because we have. People who pay lip service to God is nothing new. But tragedy and suffering has a way of making people remember God. I’m pretty sure he has everything under control.

All true. However, I'm not planning on taking "God has it under control" as license to do nothing myself. I very much believe that God began making the need to find a church home so uppermost in my mind because He has something He wants me to be doing, and I'm beginning to believe He made the drive-through Christianity that has become so prevalent obvious to me as part of that (I only physically attended one other church, but I questioned my sister extensively about her church and I spent a lot of time looking into other churches after the first, because I didn't want to spend weeks going through the exact same thing). I suspect that, down the line, God is planning to shake up His church, and there are going to need to be congregations that are strong and vibrant and ready to lead the way. I'm praying for this new pastor whoever he is, that the church chooses someone who is ready to lead in that direction. And whatever I'm supposed to be doing, when God tells me what that is, is supposed to be part of all that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But tragedy and suffering has a way of making people remember God

Very true...when all is lost, there's nothing left to do but pray to magical spirits (which, if you think about it, is really a personal admission of the fakeness and impotence of magical spirits)....that comes in handy, when brainwashing starving children abroad....

And while you're condemning the church for "brainwashing starving children abroad" - aka teaching them the belief system and culture that gave us the strongest, most free, most prosperous nation in the history of humanity, while also helping to feed, house and educate them - would you mind telling me what YOU have done for those children to allot yourself such self-righteousness?

 

[hadit]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

For most people nowadays going to church is just keeping up with the Joneses

2nd Timothy 3:1-5.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But tragedy and suffering has a way of making people remember God

Very true...when all is lost, nothing left to do but pray to magical spirits (which, if you think about, is an admission of the fakeness and impotence of magical spirits)....that comes in handy, when brainwashing starving children abroad....

Wrong.

It is called the saeculum cycle and it has been going on since the beginning of man. The account of the Jews is a testament to it and a living parable of it.

You mock what you do not understand.

Clearly it is you who do not understand. People fall back on this nonsense in lieu of any rational, effective method. guess what? Nothing fails like prayer.

Are you supposed to be a living example of how good life can be without it?

 

[hadit]

But tragedy and suffering has a way of making people remember God

Very true...when all is lost, nothing left to do but pray to magical spirits (which, if you think about, is an admission of the fakeness and impotence of magical spirits)....that comes in handy, when brainwashing starving children abroad....

Wrong.

It is called the saeculum cycle and it has been going on since the beginning of man. The account of the Jews is a testament to it and a living parable of it.

You mock what you do not understand.

Clearly it is you who do not understand. People fall back on this nonsense in lieu of any rational, effective method. guess what? Nothing fails like prayer.

You want to make it about magic when it isn’t. There is nothing magical about faith. Your problem is that because God doesn’t perform magic for you that you dismiss all aspects of spirituality and thus miss out on the power of spirituality.

They want to be able to control God. If they can't, they refuse to even acknowledge Him.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You want to make it about magic when it isn’t. There is nothing magical about faith

There is something magical about faith, when it is placed in magical ideas. Like, magical spirits with magical powers.

There's no amount of repeating "magical" over and over that's going to make Christianity be silly and meaningless, just because a silly and meaningless person has decided it is.

You're trying to score across our faith by shaming us for not believing something that meets YOUR standard of rationality. The combined ignorance and arrogance in that is astounding.

 

[hadit]

The reality is that you are trying to define the rule by the exception.

Not really. I understand some, maybe most, people turn to faith before rationality and effective measures. and, boh oh boy, is that always a disaster.

When we refuse to use our God-given gifts and expect Him to drop the goodies in our laps, of course disaster comes. That's not faith.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The reality is that you are trying to define the rule by the exception.

Not really. I understand some, maybe most, people turn to faith before rationality and effective measures. and, boh oh boy, is that always a disaster.

Yeah, that whole building Western Civilization thing was SUCH a disaster. Now, if they had just had your conceited materialism, THEN something really would have gotten done.

 

[ptbw forever]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

Yeah, these mega churches are an embarrassment.

I felt the same way when I went to Southeast Christian one time.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There really is a natural law of compensation at work.

I don't disagree, it's quite natural to self soothe. It may have even been advantageous, in an evolutionary sense. I agree that it is hardwired into us to argue and believe from ignorance. Bigotry is also hard wired right into us, at every level, which could also have been advantageous. Best to stay away from the small red berries... even if you can't tell which are poisonous and which are not...

This does not, however, lend any support to the idea that faith should be respected or considered rational. It is irrational, by definition. And it is true....it is the last refuge.

You confuse "rational" with "materialist". I would not want to live in a universe small and boring enough to fit inside my perception and understanding, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to live in one small and boring enough to fit inside yours. Fortunately, we do neither.

 

[ptbw forever]

How much did they hit you up for that?

A week of penitence.

All churches are not Catholic.

Catholics have parishes, not churches.

 

[hadit]

You want to make it about magic when it isn’t. There is nothing magical about faith

There is something magical about faith, when it is placed in magical ideas. Like, magical spirits with magical powers.

There's no amount of repeating "magical" over and over that's going to make Christianity be silly and meaningless, just because a silly and meaningless person has decided it is.

You're trying to score across our faith by shaming us for not believing something that meets YOUR standard of rationality. The combined ignorance and arrogance in that is astounding.

Science can neither prove nor disprove God's existence, because God is a sovereign being who cannot be forced to do anything.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There really is a natural law of compensation at work.

I don't disagree, it's quite natural to self soothe. It may have even been advantageous, in an evolutionary sense. I agree that it is hardwired into us to argue and believe from ignorance. Bigotry is also hard wired right into us, at every level, which could also have been advantageous. Best to stay away from the small red berries... even if you can't tell which are poisonous and which are not...

This does not, however, lend any support to the idea that faith should be respected or considered rational. It is irrational, by definition. And it is true....it is the last refuge.

Do I seem like an ignorant person to you?

You might want to consider before asking that the HE seems like an intelligent person to himself. So his standards are a bit skewed.

 

[Taz]

Nothing happened to church, it's still the same losers going to hear someone read from a book that nobody believes is true.

 

[Cecilie1200]

But tragedy and suffering has a way of making people remember God

Very true...when all is lost, nothing left to do but pray to magical spirits (which, if you think about, is an admission of the fakeness and impotence of magical spirits)....that comes in handy, when brainwashing starving children abroad....

Wrong.

It is called the saeculum cycle and it has been going on since the beginning of man. The account of the Jews is a testament to it and a living parable of it.

You mock what you do not understand.

Clearly it is you who do not understand. People fall back on this nonsense in lieu of any rational, effective method. guess what? Nothing fails like prayer.

You want to make it about magic when it isn’t. There is nothing magical about faith. Your problem is that because God doesn’t perform magic for you that you dismiss all aspects of spirituality and thus miss out on the power of spirituality.

They want to be able to control God. If they can't, they refuse to even acknowledge Him.

You know, the sermon last week addressed that. He was talking about the story of Lazarus, but he wasn't talking about the actual resurrection. He was talking about the period before that, when Lazarus was sick and his friends and family came to Jesus and asked Him to heal Lazarus. And Jesus was delayed until Lazarus was already dead for four days, and buried. All the friends and family said, "I know that if you had just come before he died, you would have been able to heal him." They had faith, but their faith was in God to arrange things according to their understanding of how they should work, according to the box they had built for God to work inside. Jesus delayed to teach them to have faith in God's power OUTSIDE of their box, and also in His ability to know what is best far beyond what we can perceive and imagine.

 

[BreezeWood]

Ah, I see the usual attempts at trying to discourage people from mentioning a key goal of you deviants, 'normalization' of pedophilia.

Statements Regarding Cardinal McCarrick - Archdiocese of Washington

More details emerge on latest sex abuse allegations against cardinal McCarric

View attachment 206542

A month after the Vatican suspended Cardinal Theodore McCarrick from ministry, saying the prominent former D.C. archbishop had been credibly accused of sexually abusing a teenager decades ago, four additional complaints about sexual misconduct by the cardinal have surfaced.

"While shocked by the report, and while maintaining my innocence, I considered it essential that the charges be reported to the police, thoroughly investigated by an independent agency, and given to the Review Board of the Archdiocese of New York. I fully cooperated in the process."


- trying to discourage people from mentioning ...


Picaro the christian knows first hand about pedophilia - they invented it when they wrote their book in the 4th century and have been screwing society by it ever since. lies over truth.

Naw, the Africans and Persians were into pedophilia long before Christians existed.

.

Naw, the Africans and Persians were into pedophilia long before Christians existed.

EarthLink - Top News

US prelate McCarrick resigns from College of Cardinals

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis has accepted U.S. prelate Theodore McCarrick's offer to resign from the College of Cardinals following allegations of sexual abuse, including one involving an 11-year-old boy, and ordered him to conduct a "life of prayer and penance" in a home to be designated by the pontiff until a church trial is held, the Vatican said Saturday.

- long before Christians existed.


the corruption began in the 4th century - and has continued unabated since that time and will continue as long as their document, bible is a misrepresentation of the events and religion of the 1st century.

I suspect that, down the line, God is planning to shake up His (their) church, and there are going to need to be congregations that are strong and vibrant and ready to lead the way.

and there are going to need to be congregations that are strong and vibrant and ready to lead the way.

reflecting the Religion of Antiquity is nothing new, nor the results any different today as then.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The reality is that you are trying to define the rule by the exception.

Not really. I understand some, maybe most, people turn to faith before rationality and effective measures. and, boh oh boy, is that always a disaster.

When we refuse to use our God-given gifts and expect Him to drop the goodies in our laps, of course disaster comes. That's not faith.

Nope, that's Prosperity Doctrine, the herpes of the Christian world.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I went to a new church for the first time this morning (because I moved to a new city a few months back, and now I need to find a new church home), and I have to say I don't feel even remotely sufficiently churched.

Maybe I'm just really old-fashioned. I grew up in the same two churches throughout my life; in fact, my husband and I were married in one of them. They were both good-sized, but neither was a "mega-church", and it was not only possible to know everyone in the church, it was impossible NOT to. The services took upwards of two hours from start to finish, and they happened three times a week. When the service ended, there were often people still praying at the altars (this church doesn't even HAVE altars), and it took at least another hour for people to get done talking and interacting and head out the doors. The song service was inclusive; the entire congregation worshipping God through music together.

This service was over in an hour; the song service was the "worship team" - basically a music group - giving a performance with lights and videos on screens and a FOG MACHINE, for crying out loud. It was a lot more like going to a concert than anything interactive. Everyone was out the door in about fifteen minutes, the pastors (they apparently have a huge heirarchy of them) were nowhere in sight, and there was no effort made to even identify new attendees, much less meet them and make them feel welcome. The sermon was still on-point in the Word of God, and they don't seem to have edited out the "icky" parts so many churches do - y'know, references to the Crucifixion, blood, death, Hell, all that uncomfortable stuff - but I have to wonder how you're supposed to learn and grow and connect with the Christian community and draw closer to God when an hour a week of listening to other people perform is all the effort you put into it.

Yeah, these mega churches are an embarrassment.

I felt the same way when I went to Southeast Christian one time.

Yup. As I described it before, it's Drive-Through Christianity: you drive up, grab your order, zoom away, no muss no fuss, you don't even have to get out of your car. But I think we all know how much serious nutrition you get from the drive-through. And eventually, it makes you weak and flabby. If you want the spiritual nourishment of Christianity, you gotta get out of the car.

 

[Taz]

The reality is that you are trying to define the rule by the exception.

Not really. I understand some, maybe most, people turn to faith before rationality and effective measures. and, boh oh boy, is that always a disaster.

When we refuse to use our God-given gifts and expect Him to drop the goodies in our laps, of course disaster comes. That's not faith.

Nope, that's Prosperity Doctrine, the herpes of the Christian world.

A disaster strikes when you ask god for stuff? Like the fires in California, the flooding, the hurricanes and the tornados that hit the US? You all should stop begging god for things, He is clearly not happy about it.