What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[JoeB131]

So what are you saying, Americans are more prone to illness due to the weather than foreigners? Let me tell you when I was younger I worked with my father, and there was no worse boss to have. The heat is one thing here in the summer, but the humidity is another. I would have to carry clamps of bricks to the area my father was working in, mix cement by hand, carry 8" block, and the bags of cement weigh 75 lbs. I would have to set up scaffolding and level it off. There isn't much harder work than that let me assure you.

Nobody died, and you poured sweat all day long. Pop never got his AC fixed so even during lunch, you sat outside under a tree if the job site had one.

And white kids today don't want to work like that. They want to go to college so they don't have to do those kinds of jobs.

 

[Flopper]

You can get labor value from any American. More straw men.

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

 

[WEATHER53]

A top 5 myth is that Americans won’t do the work. Who did the work before the illegal flood began?
Lots of 12 year olds cutting grass and shoveling snow again. Good for America and good for them and those of you who say”they won’t do it”-it’s Your lazy government dependent America hating ass that won’t do it.

Are those 12 year olds cutting grass 40 hours a week?

are they doing it for slave wages, or are they doing it for an hour, getting paid $10.00 for an hour's work and given a pat on the head like that's adorable?

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

Obviously, you forgot what hyperinflation looks like.

View attachment 203923
He didn't.

No they would do 5 or 6 lawns per week just like we all did growing up
Maybe you never grew up
Plenty of kids from all neighborhoods cutting grass and willing to do it again even with detractors like you spilling your crap

 

[WEATHER53]

There are plenty of important and skilled positions paying $25ph. It’s dumb to maintain that grass cutters and burger flippers should be getting $15+ph. No job is guaranteed nor even oriented to give you a swell 2br apartment on your own. That’s not the function of employment. Just have to share living quarters until you can make it bigger time, if you ever do.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can get labor value from any American. More straw men.

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

American companies of all kinds compete with the global market. Most of them do not hire illegals. American companies are doing fine competing with places like China who's workers labor for a few bucks a day.

If you're going to tell me this country would collapse tomorrow without foreigners, I have a bridge to sell you. You people on the left have more excuses for bringing in foreigners than you have for guys in dresses being allowed in girls restrooms in public school.

The market will take care of itself as it always does without cheating.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So what are you saying, Americans are more prone to illness due to the weather than foreigners? Let me tell you when I was younger I worked with my father, and there was no worse boss to have. The heat is one thing here in the summer, but the humidity is another. I would have to carry clamps of bricks to the area my father was working in, mix cement by hand, carry 8" block, and the bags of cement weigh 75 lbs. I would have to set up scaffolding and level it off. There isn't much harder work than that let me assure you.

Nobody died, and you poured sweat all day long. Pop never got his AC fixed so even during lunch, you sat outside under a tree if the job site had one.

And white kids today don't want to work like that. They want to go to college so they don't have to do those kinds of jobs.

Many can't afford college, and the construction industry is still fine today with the hard work involved. What's the difference? They get paid well for doing hard work. My father is a retired bricklayer, and he has a hell of a pension and is doing just fine for his age. He's been retired now for 25 years.

 

[WEATHER53]

You can get labor value from any American. More straw men.

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

American companies of all kinds compete with the global market. Most of them do not hire illegals. American companies are doing fine competing with places like China who's workers labor for a few bucks a day.

If you're going to tell me this country would collapse tomorrow without foreigners, I have a bridge to sell you. You people on the left have more excuses for bringing in foreigners than you have for guys in dresses being allowed in girls restrooms in public school.

The market will take care of itself as it always does without cheating.

Anything that undermines America operating effectively is what liberals are about . Effectiveness and success just are not fair because so many can’t do it and the social justice horseshitters must intervene

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can get labor value from any American. More straw men.

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

American companies of all kinds compete with the global market. Most of them do not hire illegals. American companies are doing fine competing with places like China who's workers labor for a few bucks a day.

If you're going to tell me this country would collapse tomorrow without foreigners, I have a bridge to sell you. You people on the left have more excuses for bringing in foreigners than you have for guys in dresses being allowed in girls restrooms in public school.

The market will take care of itself as it always does without cheating.

Anything that undermines America operating effectively is what liberals are about . Effectiveness and success just are not fair because so many can’t do it and the social justice horseshitters must intervene

When it comes to employment, the supply and demand process is the most perfect. It may not favor you all of the time, but what definitely does not favor us is throwing monkey wrenches into the system like unions or foreign labor.

The S and D system will work itself out as it always has before the foreign invasion.

 

[WEATHER53]

A human cost that is not acceptable is where a guyi gets in at 45-50 and collects social security at 66 even if he paid a very limited amount compared to average Joe paying in for 50 years

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A human cost that is not acceptable is where a guyi gets in at 45-50 and collects social security at 66 even if he paid a very limited amount compared to average Joe paying in for 50 years

I understand what you're saying, but SS payouts are in proportion to contributions. Now if you are fortunate enough to max out every working year, then yes, that person will get the same amount as another who didn't come close to maxing out. Democrats say we should lift the ceiling, but they never say we should also increase the payouts of those who are currently past the ceiling.

 

[Flopper]

You can get labor value from any American. More straw men.

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

American companies of all kinds compete with the global market. Most of them do not hire illegals. American companies are doing fine competing with places like China who's workers labor for a few bucks a day.

If you're going to tell me this country would collapse tomorrow without foreigners, I have a bridge to sell you. You people on the left have more excuses for bringing in foreigners than you have for guys in dresses being allowed in girls restrooms in public school.

The market will take care of itself as it always does without cheating.

I didn't say the country would collapse without foreign labor. I am saying we would be worst off without it.

Without foreign labor, farms would be forced to spend a lot on automation pushing food prices up in the US. Domestic production of fruits that had to be picked by hand would be replaced by foreign imports.

We would lose 42% of our STEM workforce (science, technology, engineering, and math) as they are immigrants.

Yes, the US would survive but our economy would shrink, as the government would attempt to protect more and more industries that would not be able to compete against foreign producers who can hire the best regardless of nationality.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can get labor value from any American. More straw men.

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

American companies of all kinds compete with the global market. Most of them do not hire illegals. American companies are doing fine competing with places like China who's workers labor for a few bucks a day.

If you're going to tell me this country would collapse tomorrow without foreigners, I have a bridge to sell you. You people on the left have more excuses for bringing in foreigners than you have for guys in dresses being allowed in girls restrooms in public school.

The market will take care of itself as it always does without cheating.

I didn't say the country would collapse without foreign labor. I am saying we would be worst off without it.

Without foreign labor, farms would be forced to spend a lot on automation pushing food prices up in the US. Domestic production of fruits that had to be picked by hand would be replaced by foreign imports.

We would lose 42% of our STEM workforce (science, technology, engineering, and math) as they are immigrants.

Yes, the US would survive but our economy would shrink, as the government would attempt to protect more and more industries that would not be able to compete against foreign producers who can hire the best regardless of nationality.

Riddle me this: the left has no problem increasing costs to American companies when it comes to increases in minimum wage, Obama Care, environmental costs, taxes, regulations, but now worried if we get rid of foreigners, it would have such negative effects.

If farmers had to automate or otherwise pay fair wages for labor, I think I could tolerate paying 10 bucks for a watermelon instead of $6.50. I think I could pay $3.00 for a pack of carrots instead of $1.85. In fact I wouldn't even notice.

You do realize that not that long ago, we started to burn up our food supply to create ethanol. But that was okay, because supposedly, it was to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels. It's still happening today and we are still paying 20% more for groceries than we did before. But again, that had Democrat stamp of approval, even though ethanol forced distributors of fuel to revamp their equipment and still known for it's destructive properties to engines.

But now the tragedy is getting rid of people that should't be here in the first place. Just one more excuse to keep foreigners coming to this country. It has nothing to do with cost, because if it did, Democrats would have addressed that when ethanol, taxes, and environmental regulations increased our costs as well.

 

[AZGAL]

What we don't need is more illegal immigrants that live in the shadows. They can not assimilate and contribute to economy in the way legal immigrants can.----------It doesn't take much brain power to realize that there is a tremendous financial strain that has been placed and continues to be placed on the average working class citizen of the United States by all this illegal immigration. It hits the nations working people in the pocketbook. That cost burden is placed on them/us without approval or consideration. What are we as a nation paying for in the amounts of millions and billions of dollars in order to accommodate illegal aliens?: WE in the USA are paying for: food, housing, utilities, transportation, workers at adult and child holding centers, teachers, lawyers, judges, border patrol, ICE, military and other airline flights to return people, border vehicles and gasoline, government agencies, communications with religious organizations that provide help and housing here, international efforts to help these people in their own countries, medical, etc, etc. There is a staggering cost to the Average citizen and the nation is recovering economically and has a debt. Blame the drug trade and weak ineffective governments. --

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[JoeB131]

No they would do 5 or 6 lawns per week just like we all did growing up
Maybe you never grew up
Plenty of kids from all neighborhoods cutting grass and willing to do it again even with detractors like you spilling your crap

I would hire a professional lawn service that knew what it was doing, and not some kid who'd miss half the spots and then I'd have to go out and do it myself the right way.

 

[JoeB131]

Many can't afford college, and the construction industry is still fine today with the hard work involved. What's the difference? They get paid well for doing hard work. My father is a retired bricklayer, and he has a hell of a pension and is doing just fine for his age. He's been retired now for 25 years.

Hmmm... A Pension. And how did he get a pension? Oh, that's right, he belonged to a UNION that you guys want to get rid of now.

In fact, the reason why there are so many undocumented workers in the trades is because the One Percenters- including Trump- don't want to pay union wages.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Many can't afford college, and the construction industry is still fine today with the hard work involved. What's the difference? They get paid well for doing hard work. My father is a retired bricklayer, and he has a hell of a pension and is doing just fine for his age. He's been retired now for 25 years.

Hmmm... A Pension. And how did he get a pension? Oh, that's right, he belonged to a UNION that you guys want to get rid of now.

In fact, the reason why there are so many undocumented workers in the trades is because the One Percenters- including Trump- don't want to pay union wages.

Yes, unions were a big thing decades ago until the public figured out why jobs were leaving the US. But pensions are one of the reasons people are willing to join construction and do those kinds of jobs. With everything added in, a bricklayer makes about $50.00 an hour when working.

Yep, those evil one percenters again. But it's Democrats who are ushering in these foreigners for the one percent to take advantage of. Trump and we Republicans are trying to slow that down, and the Democrats are fighting us tooth and nail even to the point of threatening to shut down the government.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, unions were a big thing decades ago until the public figured out why jobs were leaving the US. But pensions are one of the reasons people are willing to join construction and do those kinds of jobs. With everything added in, a bricklayer makes about $50.00 an hour when working.

And clearly, the market forces can't support that... not when you have a rich guy like Trump who needs a new dressage horse.

Yep, those evil one percenters again. But it's Democrats who are ushering in these foreigners for the one percent to take advantage of. Trump and we Republicans are trying to slow that down, and the Democrats are fighting us tooth and nail even to the point of threatening to shut down the government.

Again, Trump wants to build a wall that won't work while not addressing the issues like the 11 million who are already here and part of this society.

 

[AZGAL]

Joe you talk nonsense. At least Flop tries to present a thoughtful response. You are silly Joe, sorry.

 

[danielpalos]

An Oasis on every Continent!

 

[Flopper]

Except Americans don't really want to do those jobs... that's the point.

Again, told you the wonderful story about how we used to have undocumented day laborers at a previous company. Then they insisted that they stop using them, and they could only find white trash methheads that got high and left after they got their first and only paychecks.

Correct, because they don't want to pay anything. But the solution is not to bring in foreigners, the solution is to starve the market until businesses increase their offers. We are blowing a perfect opportunity with that given our booming economy.

A farmer can not just increase wages without being able to get more for his crop and getting more depends on the market.

It might seem like the farmer raising blackberries has a unique crop but the fact is if the cost of blackberries rise significantly, many consumers will switch to blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, or other fruits.

Also the market is not local or even national. It is global. The blackberry farm in Oregon is competing with farms all over the country, Mexico, Canada, Central America, and the Caribbean. So if the Oregon blackberry farmer raises his pay from $16/hr to $23/hr, he will have a crop he can't sell and still make a profit.

American companies of all kinds compete with the global market. Most of them do not hire illegals. American companies are doing fine competing with places like China who's workers labor for a few bucks a day.

If you're going to tell me this country would collapse tomorrow without foreigners, I have a bridge to sell you. You people on the left have more excuses for bringing in foreigners than you have for guys in dresses being allowed in girls restrooms in public school.

The market will take care of itself as it always does without cheating.

I didn't say the country would collapse without foreign labor. I am saying we would be worst off without it.

Without foreign labor, farms would be forced to spend a lot on automation pushing food prices up in the US. Domestic production of fruits that had to be picked by hand would be replaced by foreign imports.

We would lose 42% of our STEM workforce (science, technology, engineering, and math) as they are immigrants.

Yes, the US would survive but our economy would shrink, as the government would attempt to protect more and more industries that would not be able to compete against foreign producers who can hire the best regardless of nationality.

Riddle me this: the left has no problem increasing costs to American companies when it comes to increases in minimum wage, Obama Care, environmental costs, taxes, regulations, but now worried if we get rid of foreigners, it would have such negative effects.

If farmers had to automate or otherwise pay fair wages for labor, I think I could tolerate paying 10 bucks for a watermelon instead of $6.50. I think I could pay $3.00 for a pack of carrots instead of $1.85. In fact I wouldn't even notice.

You do realize that not that long ago, we started to burn up our food supply to create ethanol. But that was okay, because supposedly, it was to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels. It's still happening today and we are still paying 20% more for groceries than we did before. But again, that had Democrat stamp of approval, even though ethanol forced distributors of fuel to revamp their equipment and still known for it's destructive properties to engines.

But now the tragedy is getting rid of people that should't be here in the first place. Just one more excuse to keep foreigners coming to this country. It has nothing to do with cost, because if it did, Democrats would have addressed that when ethanol, taxes, and environmental regulations increased our costs as well.

You might be willing to pay $10 for a $6 watermelon, but most Americans would buy Mexican, Central American, or Caribbean melons. Those kind of increases in cost would cost America tens of billions of dollars in agricultural exports.

However, that would be a minor problem if the America for Americans crowd get their way. The loss of 42% of our high tech people who are immigrants would devastate our high tech industries. It would hit America where it's most productive, high tech innovations and scientific and engineering research. Without their top high tech people, you would see tech giants in the US such as Apple, Microsoft, IBM, Intel... etc moving their operations to the EU and Asia.