What is moral truth and who gets to decide what it is?

[Mikeoxenormous]

Proof atheists have no moral truth.

Nobody does.

Humanity is full of flawed people, as no one was ever created perfect. We have all sinned, but for some of US we don't intentionally TRY to sin, while others(liberals) have adopted the "IF IT FEELS GOOD, JUST DO IT" mentality and when those who don't think that is a good idea, they are shut down, by being called every name in the book. We have seen it with "deplorable", "Racists", "Sexists", "Homophobes", and "Xenophobes", and the more it is used, the less effect is has on the inured population, which is why President Trump is in office, not the crooked, vagina, candidate, who fell down all the time. Yes, Donald Trump has his faults, but he is TRYING to get America to be great again, the other bitch candidate wanted 4 more years of Obama. No thanks, immorality may be legal , but the US Citizens have voted to bring back normalcy.

View attachment 146997

No one REALLY knows what Trump is trying to do and humans ( in general) are so tunnel versioned with their own biases they just go along with things. Most likely he is just a pawn and obviously arrogant enough to be the current mouthpiece and chief.

Disagreed on "pawn". He's not a puppet and, as his Tweets have often proved, he's not being manipulated by anyone. As POTUS, he does, however, have limitations as to what he can do, both good and bad.

True he does have limitations as president, I guess at this point I just dont trust the whole political system and basically see it as a big web.

So you do agree, that it is time to drain the swamp? Virginia did it a couple of years ago, when Eric Cantor(2nd to John Boehner) was not elected. He was shocked that the Conservatives of Va, voted against him, but that was the first step to get the establishment out and hold the reps, accountable. Just need more people to realize that is what change really brings.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Sooner or later YOU have to decide. Whether you like it or not. Cause you are a "made in the image of God" human. Whether you like it or not

 

[MarkDuffy]

Here is something I found on the topic that I found insightful.

Moral Truth

Moral Truth – The Ultimate Judge
When it comes to moral truth, we’ve all heard the relativist mantra, “Who are you to judge?” Frank Beckwith responded powerfully when challenged at a recent presentation: “I certainly do have a right to make moral judgments. I am a rational person who is aware of certain fundamental principles of logical and moral reasoning. I think I’m qualified. Who would you rather have judge, animals? Your claim that I have no right to make moral judgments is itself a judgment about me. Your claim, therefore, is self-refuting.”

Anyone who says you should not judge has already made a moral judgment about you, namely that you are wrong for judging others. Next time someone says, “Who are you to judge?” you might reply by asking, “Who are you to ask the question, who are you to judge?” If someone says, “You should not make moral judgments,” ask a simple question: “Is that your morality?” If so, “Then why are you forcing your version of moral truth on me?”

So you admit God of the Bible is wrong

We are making progress

 

[MarkDuffy]

Morals are community norms, they will vary with communities. Valid morals assist or enhance the survival of the community. One can see from this that communities decide morals and a community's survival determines their truth.

That would be political morality not true morality. The whatever works model. Such morality is very fluid and would be dictated by those in charge.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Is it immoral for a lion to steal a hyena's kill? I'm pretty sure everyone would say "no". It would probably be rationalized that the lion is advancing both his species and his own genetic lineage. Well, if there is no God, then how is it immoral if I steal my neighbor's food? Am I not like the lion? If there is no God, then we are just animals like the lions and hyenas. Why should I be held to a different "moral" standard than a lion?

Of course it is immoral for a lion to steal, however you have it backwards. The hyenas usually steal the lion's kill. The fact that you put the lion higher is telling.

The #2 would be neither animal really thinks about morality.

You do not need a God to know and act moral.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Another case that no matter what we tell ourselves, we instinctively know what is moral - what is "right or wrong"...

Rubbish. Babies instinctively know right from wrong? Yeah, right.

To some degree yes they do. They are forming new morality all the time & it is not constant. Trying to teach morality from parents only goes so far, cuz they have a thinking brain also. There are two things going on ~ knowing morality and acting moral. Acting moral also has two types ~ public and private.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Moral truth is a nonsense term meant to turn people from God, and truth, and morality.

Truth and morality come from God. It is not a human construct, the only innate good in humanity is that which is placed there by God, of God.

Nonsense

No wonder believers are totally lost.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Morality is such a loaded and vague term.

The word moral was probably invented so that religions could own it as their special term.

I prefer to say ethical instead.

Our peer group determines what is ethical as a group, and then then impose it on you with threat of ostracism.

Same here, but I have no problem fighting on foreign turf.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Morality is such a loaded and vague term.

I prefer to say ethical instead.

Our peer group determines what is ethical as a group, and then then impose it on you with threat of ostracism.

Who would want to be part of any peer group that would threaten to ostracize you if you don't fit in I know that's the norm for society but who would want that

The group usually does not announce it, especially as a rule. You are expected to adjust. You know, the cold shoulder type of thing.

 

[MarkDuffy]

There's no such thing as a moral truth, so nobody gets to decide, not even fncceo.

Proof atheists have no moral truth.

Nobody does.

Humanity is full of flawed people, as no one was ever created perfect. We have all sinned, but for some of US we don't intentionally TRY to sin, while others(liberals) have adopted the "IF IT FEELS GOOD, JUST DO IT" mentality and when those who don't think that is a good idea, they are shut down, by being called every name in the book. We have seen it with "deplorable", "Racists", "Sexists", "Homophobes", and "Xenophobes", and the more it is used, the less effect is has on the inured population, which is why President Trump is in office, not the crooked, vagina, candidate, who fell down all the time. Yes, Donald Trump has his faults, but he is TRYING to get America to be great again, the other bitch candidate wanted 4 more years of Obama. No thanks, immorality may be legal , but the US Citizens have voted to bring back normalcy.

View attachment 146997

Dude, you have very serious mental problems.

 

[MarkDuffy]

Nobody does.

Humanity is full of flawed people, as no one was ever created perfect. We have all sinned, but for some of US we don't intentionally TRY to sin, while others(liberals) have adopted the "IF IT FEELS GOOD, JUST DO IT" mentality and when those who don't think that is a good idea, they are shut down, by being called every name in the book. We have seen it with "deplorable", "Racists", "Sexists", "Homophobes", and "Xenophobes", and the more it is used, the less effect is has on the inured population, which is why President Trump is in office, not the crooked, vagina, candidate, who fell down all the time. Yes, Donald Trump has his faults, but he is TRYING to get America to be great again, the other bitch candidate wanted 4 more years of Obama. No thanks, immorality may be legal , but the US Citizens have voted to bring back normalcy.

View attachment 146997

No one REALLY knows what Trump is trying to do and humans ( in general) are so tunnel versioned with their own biases they just go along with things. Most likely he is just a pawn and obviously arrogant enough to be the current mouthpiece and chief.

Disagreed on "pawn". He's not a puppet and, as his Tweets have often proved, he's not being manipulated by anyone. As POTUS, he does, however, have limitations as to what he can do, both good and bad.

True he does have limitations as president, I guess at this point I just dont trust the whole political system and basically see it as a big web.

So you do agree, that it is time to drain the swamp? Virginia did it a couple of years ago, when Eric Cantor(2nd to John Boehner) was not elected. He was shocked that the Conservatives of Va, voted against him, but that was the first step to get the establishment out and hold the reps, accountable. Just need more people to realize that is what change really brings.

trump IS the swamp. Posterboy for swampism.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

There's no such thing as a moral truth, so nobody gets to decide, not even fncceo.

Proof atheists have no moral truth.

Nobody does.

Humanity is full of flawed people, as no one was ever created perfect. We have all sinned, but for some of US we don't intentionally TRY to sin, while others(liberals) have adopted the "IF IT FEELS GOOD, JUST DO IT" mentality and when those who don't think that is a good idea, they are shut down, by being called every name in the book. We have seen it with "deplorable", "Racists", "Sexists", "Homophobes", and "Xenophobes", and the more it is used, the less effect is has on the inured population, which is why President Trump is in office, not the crooked, vagina, candidate, who fell down all the time. Yes, Donald Trump has his faults, but he is TRYING to get America to be great again, the other bitch candidate wanted 4 more years of Obama. No thanks, immorality may be legal , but the US Citizens have voted to bring back normalcy.

View attachment 146997

Dude, you have very serious mental problems.

From the people(liberals) who have men putting their penis in another man's ass and loving it. From people who intentionally mutilate themselves because they didn't have parents being adults, telling them that xx is female and xy is male and no matter what you will still be that even after the operations. From people like you, who have no morals at all, yet tell me I have a mental problem.

Moonbattery: Psychiatrist Confirms: Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder

Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded. Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave.

The roots of liberalism — and its associated madness — can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind. When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Humanity is full of flawed people, as no one was ever created perfect. We have all sinned, but for some of US we don't intentionally TRY to sin, while others(liberals) have adopted the "IF IT FEELS GOOD, JUST DO IT" mentality and when those who don't think that is a good idea, they are shut down, by being called every name in the book. We have seen it with "deplorable", "Racists", "Sexists", "Homophobes", and "Xenophobes", and the more it is used, the less effect is has on the inured population, which is why President Trump is in office, not the crooked, vagina, candidate, who fell down all the time. Yes, Donald Trump has his faults, but he is TRYING to get America to be great again, the other bitch candidate wanted 4 more years of Obama. No thanks, immorality may be legal , but the US Citizens have voted to bring back normalcy.

View attachment 146997

No one REALLY knows what Trump is trying to do and humans ( in general) are so tunnel versioned with their own biases they just go along with things. Most likely he is just a pawn and obviously arrogant enough to be the current mouthpiece and chief.

Disagreed on "pawn". He's not a puppet and, as his Tweets have often proved, he's not being manipulated by anyone. As POTUS, he does, however, have limitations as to what he can do, both good and bad.

True he does have limitations as president, I guess at this point I just dont trust the whole political system and basically see it as a big web.

So you do agree, that it is time to drain the swamp? Virginia did it a couple of years ago, when Eric Cantor(2nd to John Boehner) was not elected. He was shocked that the Conservatives of Va, voted against him, but that was the first step to get the establishment out and hold the reps, accountable. Just need more people to realize that is what change really brings.

trump IS the swamp. Posterboy for swampism.

 

[MarkDuffy]

There's no such thing as a moral truth, so nobody gets to decide, not even fncceo.

Proof atheists have no moral truth.

Nobody does.

Humanity is full of flawed people, as no one was ever created perfect. We have all sinned, but for some of US we don't intentionally TRY to sin, while others(liberals) have adopted the "IF IT FEELS GOOD, JUST DO IT" mentality and when those who don't think that is a good idea, they are shut down, by being called every name in the book. We have seen it with "deplorable", "Racists", "Sexists", "Homophobes", and "Xenophobes", and the more it is used, the less effect is has on the inured population, which is why President Trump is in office, not the crooked, vagina, candidate, who fell down all the time. Yes, Donald Trump has his faults, but he is TRYING to get America to be great again, the other bitch candidate wanted 4 more years of Obama. No thanks, immorality may be legal , but the US Citizens have voted to bring back normalcy.

View attachment 146997

Dude, you have very serious mental problems.

From the people(liberals) who have men putting their penis in another man's ass and loving it. From people who intentionally mutilate themselves because they didn't have parents being adults, telling them that xx is female and xy is male and no matter what you will still be that even after the operations. From people like you, who have no morals at all, yet tell me I have a mental problem.

Moonbattery: Psychiatrist Confirms: Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder

Based on strikingly irrational beliefs and emotions, modern liberals relentlessly undermine the most important principles on which our freedoms were founded. Like spoiled, angry children, they rebel against the normal responsibilities of adulthood and demand that a parental government meet their needs from cradle to grave.

The roots of liberalism — and its associated madness — can be clearly identified by understanding how children develop from infancy to adulthood and how distorted development produces the irrational beliefs of the liberal mind. When the modern liberal mind whines about imaginary victims, rages against imaginary villains and seeks above all else to run the lives of persons competent to run their own lives, the neurosis of the liberal mind becomes painfully obvious.

You have issues with sexuality. You have big issues with homosexuality and intersex people. You admit your God is far from perfect or those issues would not exist. Your God expects man & woman to deal with your God's error in creation and be something they are not.

Science can easily explain it.

You have just admitted that God did not create man or there would be only xx and xy.

 

[Bonzi]

So how do you think mankind would be doing if religion was never part of our lives?

 

[MarkDuffy]

So how do you think mankind would be doing if religion was never part of our lives?

There appears to be a religion allele complex. Man had to invent gods & magic when we were more primitive to stay sane. We as a species need answers and if we don't have them, we make them up. Unfortunately for God, we don't need him any longer. He apparently knows this and that is why he won't be coming back.

However, if we never had a God, we would probably be much more civilized.

 

[Divine Wind]

So how do you think mankind would be doing if religion was never part of our lives?

There appears to be a religion allele complex. Man had to invent gods & magic when we were more primitive to stay sane. We as a species need answers and if we don't have them, we make them up. Unfortunately for God, we don't need him any longer. He apparently knows this and that is why he won't be coming back.

However, if we never had a God, we would probably be much more civilized.

LOL I love it when atheists try to sound all scientific then refuse to post any links backing up their beliefs.

You post is filled with some truth but mostly falsehoods, conjecture and belief. Yes, geneticist Dr. Dean Hamer published work linking faith to the VMAT2 gene, but as he repeatedly states in his book The God Gene, "This book is about whether God genes exist, not about whether there is a God." While dogmatic beliefs (religions) might have a problem with this hypothesis, as Dr. Hamer himself stated, it's not proof or disproof of a spiritual existence or entity. One thing to consider is that, if there is more to existence than eating, sleeping and fucking, then turning a spiritual being into a physical being and maintaining a connection would require some physical attributes. Example, radio waves exist, but one can't perceive those waves without the ability to receive and convert them into an understandable form like a radio. In the case of perceiving certain wavelengths of light, we have eyes, but there is a much wider spectrum we can't perceive which in no way negates the existence of those other wavelengths.

No, you don't "need" God. You can exist as you are not for the rest of your life without any spiritual connections at all. That's your choice. Like someone who chooses to sit and watch TV all the time without ever going outside, I think you are missing something by not exploring your spiritual side. I'm not talking about "getting religion" because I think religion is more of a tool towards becoming more spiritual, not the end point of that exploration.

 

[Divine Wind]

So how do you think mankind would be doing if religion was never part of our lives?

Mankind would still be spiritual and be exploring that part of ourselves. One way to explore that is to compare all religions and look for common factors. Most talk about harmony with our surroundings if not the rest of the Universe. There is often a promotion of "oneness" and also of cycles. Another commonality seems to be promoting "being oneself" albeit without harming others in the process.

As I mentioned to Mark, "religion" is a tool towards learning about spirituality, not spirituality itself. Anyone who says their religion is the only religion and, now that they've got it, they have nothing else to learn is cheating themselves as much as someone who denies we have a spiritual side to our existence.

 

[daisiesRwild]

there is two things we live in, on, by and around and that is love - everyone wants love and with it comes certainbehaviors that keep it or make it go away

 

[Moonglow]

there is two things we live in, on, by and around and that is love - everyone wants love and with it comes certainbehaviors that keep it or make it go away

You mean unconditional love..