What should the highest income tax rate be?

[OriginalShroom]

When I lived in Germany, they had the VAT (Value Added Tax). It was about 25%. It was included in the price on the sticker. That way when you got to the cashier, you paid exactly what was on the sticker, not one mark more.

 

[The Rabbi]

Agreed. That's my fear too that we end up with both a sales tax and an income tax. Actually we need to ban more then the income tax. Payroll, business and other taxes as well as they are all included in the Fair Tax.

Except Fair Tax sucks for a variety of reasons.

Black market concerns?

Well, look at the VAT in Britain. Actually in every country. First off, it grows every year. I think the rate in Belgium is like 20% today.
Second, taxing goods involves figuring out what goods should be taxed. What about intermediate goods like steel tubing? This spawns an industry among companies trying to get their products classified in some tax advantaged way. This will necessitate an army of bureaucrats and lawyers, just like we have today.
Then you have the issue of tax cheating on the retail level. The IRS now can access records of merchant processors so they know how much in credit card receipts each business gets. They have sent "information notices" to many businesses where they think the business is under-reporting cash income. Under a Fair Tax this will only get worse.
Flat Tax is simple with the rate low enough to reduce the incentive to cheat.

 

[JWBooth]

Max out at 2%.....
Nah fuck that
All taxation is theft.


0%

 

[iamwhatiseem]

For lack of choice I choose "14%-49%"...but in reality I would say 15% to 25%.
Active Military, students and under 18 should be tax exempt

 

[Days]

tax code does not stand alone, it is part of an overall budget and money creation system.

the whole needs revamping, as it has fallen into a horrible condition, which has proven to be detrimental to economic growth. America can no longer compete on the international scene on account of our exchange rates. The dollar is too strong to allow our manufacturing to compete for overseas MARKET... as in, the exchange rate is too strong. But the same dollar is too weak to pay the mortgage at home.

You won't accomplish anything concentrating solely on the income tax rate. If that's all you ask of us, then the answer is clear; our forefathers saw to it to bar any income tax from the republic; they put that in the Constitution. So 10% is 10% too high. But we have had an income tax for 100 years, it is the foundation for the federal budget. We also have lost control of money creation to Wall Street banks and with it, we have lost all control over the entire economic works of the nation. Until the USA takes back its authority to create its own money, you won't have any power to fix anything, especially the income tax that doesn't belong in this republic.

America was founded upon bank credit. Our colonies prospered under the fiat of English bankers. When in due time, the colonies discovered how much control over their economic well being was ceded to the bankers and how the bankers could draw those purse strings tight and cut off their money supply by with holding their credit ... those colonies then revolted against bank credit as our monetary base and supply. The colonies then drew up a republic that went hard line for hard currency; making the silver dollar the official money and forcing the states to disburse purely hard currency; gold and silver and copper coin, so the economy of the new republic was based solely in REAL MONEY, and then hopefully the economy of the nation would never be controlled by bank credit again. Thomas jefferson left us a serious warning not to ever allow the bankers to get their hands on the money creation. 100 years ago, the bankers regained total control over the money creation and the republic went back to being a client of the credit issued and withdrawn by the bankers. In due time we returned back to the same poor condition and poverty that caused our forefathers to revolt and secure their own money base. Only now the wickedness is from within.

tax code is just scratching the surface. take on the whole battle or you will lose before you start.

 

[The Rabbi]

For lack of choice I choose "14%-49%"...but in reality I would say 15% to 25%.
Active Military, students and under 18 should be tax exempt

Why should they be exempt? That is just using the tax code for social engineering, which is a big part of the problem in the first place.

 

[Duped]

Black market concerns?

Since taxes are already built into the price of the product we buy, why would it be any different?

Which is why I am for Consumption or FAIR TAX.

HOW did we survive before WE were hijacked by the 16th Amendment?

Yes, everyone needs skin in the game. 15 - 18%.

 

[kaz]

Except Fair Tax sucks for a variety of reasons.

Black market concerns?

Well, look at the VAT in Britain. Actually in every country. First off, it grows every year. I think the rate in Belgium is like 20% today.

That's a good point, taxes won't go up like they do now... BTW, a VAT is a very different thing than a Fair Tax, which is paid once at the retail level. The VAT has a significant impact on economic activity because it affects every level of production as well as the outsource. There may be a similar calculation, but my major goal is driving business decisions with economics. The Fair Tax passes with flying colors, the VAT is a massive fail.

Second, taxing goods involves figuring out what goods should be taxed. What about intermediate goods like steel tubing? This spawns an industry among companies trying to get their products classified in some tax advantaged way.

In the VAT, yes. In the Fair Tax, no. Intermediate production is not taxed, tax is paid once at the consumer level. You just argued a great case against the VAT. But not for the fair tax.

This will necessitate an army of bureaucrats and lawyers, just like we have today.

Lawyers to collect a flat sales tax = lawyers to calculate individual taxes, business taxes, tariffs, estate taxes, ...?

You're tripping.

Then you have the issue of tax cheating on the retail level. The IRS now can access records of merchant processors so they know how much in credit card receipts each business gets. They have sent "information notices" to many businesses where they think the business is under-reporting cash income. Under a Fair Tax this will only get worse.

And on the other hand, everyone who today is working in a cash based economy and isn't paying taxes will be paying taxes when they spend. So we start with a higher tax base where EVERYONE pays their share, not just legal employees, and you see it getting lower? The math don't work.

Flat Tax is simple with the rate low enough to reduce the incentive to cheat.

You're arguing for a complex tax system where government collects massive personal data about it because you want taxes to be more complex to thwart cheaters? And you're a conservative? Seriously?

And oh yeah, it's working really well...

 

[kaz]

For lack of choice I choose "14%-49%"...but in reality I would say 15% to 25%.
Active Military, students and under 18 should be tax exempt

According to my intent you chose correctly. I just meant you are somewhere in that range, not that you were voting for the entire range.

I edited the OP to state this, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[The Rabbi]

Black market concerns?

Well, look at the VAT in Britain. Actually in every country. First off, it grows every year. I think the rate in Belgium is like 20% today.

That's a good point, taxes won't go up like they do now... BTW, a VAT is a very different thing than a Fair Tax, which is paid once at the retail level. The VAT has a significant impact on economic activity because it affects every level of production as well as the outsource. There may be a similar calculation, but my major goal is driving business decisions with economics. The Fair Tax passes with flying colors, the VAT is a massive fail.


In the VAT, yes. In the Fair Tax, no. Intermediate production is not taxed, tax is paid once at the consumer level. You just argued a great case against the VAT. But not for the fair tax.




Lawyers to collect a flat sales tax = lawyers to calculate individual taxes, business taxes, tariffs, estate taxes, ...?

You're tripping.

Then you have the issue of tax cheating on the retail level. The IRS now can access records of merchant processors so they know how much in credit card receipts each business gets. They have sent "information notices" to many businesses where they think the business is under-reporting cash income. Under a Fair Tax this will only get worse.

And on the other hand, everyone who today is working in a cash based economy and isn't paying taxes will be paying taxes when they spend. So we start with a higher tax base where EVERYONE pays their share, not just legal employees, and you see it getting lower? The math don't work.

Flat Tax is simple with the rate low enough to reduce the incentive to cheat.

You're arguing for a complex tax system where government collects massive personal data about it because you want taxes to be more complex to thwart cheaters? And you're a conservative? Seriously?

And oh yeah, it's working really well...

Again, what is a "retail" sale? If I own a restaurant and buy napkings at Sam's that shouldn't be retail, as I am essentially reselling them.
It is no wonder the Fair Tax attracts support from the narcos. It is impractical and unrealistic with no chance of ever coming into being. Pretty much the story of all their programs.
The Flat Tax has the virtue of being tried and true and requiring very little change to implement.
But I would support a Fair Tax over the present system because anything would be better.

 

[Contumacious]

what should the highest income tax rate be?

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0 %

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[RetiredGySgt]

For lack of choice I choose "14%-49%"...but in reality I would say 15% to 25%.
Active Military, students and under 18 should be tax exempt

Why should they be exempt? That is just using the tax code for social engineering, which is a big part of the problem in the first place.

Biggest pay raise you could give the military is tax exemption, it is after all tax money we pay them with.

 

[The T]

For lack of choice I choose "14%-49%"...but in reality I would say 15% to 25%.
Active Military, students and under 18 should be tax exempt

Why should they be exempt? That is just using the tax code for social engineering, which is a big part of the problem in the first place.

Biggest pay raise you could give the military is tax exemption, it is after all tax money we pay them with.

Both State and Federal.

 

[Beachboy]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

EDIT: Per an excellent point from iamwhatiseem, my intent in the ranges is that your rate is somewhere in that range. I did not mean you are OK with the entire range. I didn't want to get carried away with the number of choices.

A tax rate of 11 to 49% would solve our nation's budgetary problems. Money is a tool for accomplishing goals, a simple medium. Those who demand more and more income are greedy and belong on a doctors couch. They are useless and make life more difficult for the rest of us. They are expendable.

 

[onecut39]

Taxing a man's labor is immoral.

If the federal government lived within the confines of the enumerated powers in the Constitution as was originally intended, there would be no need for an income tax.

I understand that puts a cramp in the central planners plans...

What about that first clause in the enumerated powers section? You just ignore that? Say that the word welfare had different meanings?

 

[The T]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

EDIT: Per an excellent point from iamwhatiseem, my intent in the ranges is that your rate is somewhere in that range. I did not mean you are OK with the entire range. I didn't want to get carried away with the number of choices.

A tax rate of 11 to 49% would solve our nation's budgetary problems. Money is a tool for accomplishing goals, a simple medium. Those who demand more and more income are greedy and belong on a doctors couch. They are useless and make life more difficult for the rest of us. They are expendable.

NO ceasing SPENDING on Social WELFARE, and PET PROGRAMS that grow Gubmint larger would cure it...Wanna refute me?

 

[syrenn]

flat tax.... EVERYONE pays. No deductions, no exemptions, no loop holes

if you make $100. you pay your tax..they same as everyone else
if you make $100,000,000. you pay your tax... same as everyone else.

 

[deltex1]

That's the wrong end of the equation.

Begin by asking what is the minimum amount of money needed for the federal government to perform its constitutional functions? Once you know that number than you have a better base line to determine who should pay what share of that number.

 

[The T]

That's the wrong end of the equation.

Begin by asking what is the minimum amount of money needed for the federal government to perform its constitutional functions? Once you know that number than you have a better base line to determine who should pay what share of that number.

Many on the left would foist the welfare state...Was the welfare state ever included in the Constitution?

As a matter of course? NO, it wasn't. 'General Welfare Clause' is not a citation of the Founder's will...(And NOT directed at you, but rather a warning to the Statists on these boards chomping at the bit to refute my point ).

 

[DiamondDave]

The highest the tax rate on income should be is the amount that even the libs think that the lowest income should be taxed at.... if they should not be burdened with it or pay for it at a certain rate, nobody should