What should the highest income tax rate be?

[bigrebnc1775]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

EDIT: Per an excellent point from iamwhatiseem, my intent in the ranges is that your rate is somewhere in that range. I did not mean you are OK with the entire range. I didn't want to get carried away with the number of choices.

Are you talking about property tax or income tax?
Income tax is illegal
property tax is not.

Answer in red.

Not sure what you mean by illegal unless you're referring to the dubious passage of the 16th amendment.

Income taxes are illegal unconstitutional hows that?

 

[kaz]

You have to stop listening to Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Mark Lavine, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, etc.

They have left you woefully unprepared to address these issues.

Yet another liberal drone repeating talking points. You think conservatives are telling me to be a libertarian, and you're questioning "my" being prepared to deal with issues?

I mean if they are programming me, why don't they program me to agree with them? Is this some sort of clever prank? Are they just dong it to be funny? Hey, guys, I got another one, let's program our minions to be ... libertarian! Wouldn't that be a hoot! Bam!

Moron.

 

[kaz]

Are you talking about property tax or income tax?
Income tax is illegal
property tax is not.

Answer in red.

Not sure what you mean by illegal unless you're referring to the dubious passage of the 16th amendment.

Income taxes are illegal unconstitutional hows that?

I'm asking you about what you said. Are you saying the 16th amendment wasn't properly passed? That is a reasonable argument, I'm just asking you if that's what you mean.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Answer in red.

Not sure what you mean by illegal unless you're referring to the dubious passage of the 16th amendment.

Income taxes are illegal unconstitutional hows that?

I'm asking you about what you said. Are you saying the 16th amendment wasn't properly passed? That is a reasonable argument, I'm just asking you if that's what you mean.

if it's unconstitutional wouldn't it also mean it wasn't properly passed?

But yes that is what I mean.

 

[velvtacheeze]

It was 90% back in the 1950s, I don't see why we can't go back to that. The 1950s were a time of economic growth too.

And I reject the idea that the rich, leisure class "earn" anything. They rig the game.

 

[NightFox]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

I'm not sure how you can realistically calculate a percentage rate without knowing the costs for the federal government to carry out it's constitutional obligations and then determining the most efficient (and least economically harmful) way of collecting that revenue. Certainly the income tax system we have now is grossly inefficient (billions of man hours wasted every year on income tax preparation) as well as unjust (all sorts of favoritism based on economic activity type, income level, income type, martial status, etc...,).

The other big unknown is how do you calculate future costs and then determine if whatever system being proposed will scale appropriately to meet those needs? You also have to consider that non-obvious taxation (aka hidden taxes) tends to facilitate disconnection between proposal-price in the minds of the people as well as allowing politicians to wiggle off the hook for making tough decision regarding prioritizing expenditures.

 

[Wildman]

for the rich and poor alike, how about a consumer tax ?

no tax on food and medical/medicines items of necessity etc.

10% on every day items needed to maintain a decent life style.

20% on luxury items, jewelry, yachts, airplanes, booze, tobacco, etc.

50% on houses of more than 8 rooms.

 

[Edgetho]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

I'm not sure how you can realistically calculate a percentage rate without knowing the costs for the federal government to carry out it's constitutional obligations and then determining the most efficient (and least economically harmful) way of collecting that revenue. Certainly the income tax system we have now is grossly inefficient (billions of man hours wasted every year on income tax preparation) as well as unjust (all sorts of favoritism based on economic activity type, income level, income type, martial status, etc...,).

The other big unknown is how do you calculate future costs and then determine if whatever system being proposed will scale appropriately to meet those needs? You also have to consider that non-obvious taxation (aka hidden taxes) tends to facilitate disconnection between proposal-price in the minds of the people as well as allowing politicians to wiggle off the hook for making tough decision regarding prioritizing expenditures.

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservative tax theory is easily summed up,

they believe that the rich pay too much and the poor don't pay enough.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

I'm not sure how you can realistically calculate a percentage rate without knowing the costs for the federal government to carry out it's constitutional obligations and then determining the most efficient (and least economically harmful) way of collecting that revenue. Certainly the income tax system we have now is grossly inefficient (billions of man hours wasted every year on income tax preparation) as well as unjust (all sorts of favoritism based on economic activity type, income level, income type, martial status, etc...,).

The other big unknown is how do you calculate future costs and then determine if whatever system being proposed will scale appropriately to meet those needs? You also have to consider that non-obvious taxation (aka hidden taxes) tends to facilitate disconnection between proposal-price in the minds of the people as well as allowing politicians to wiggle off the hook for making tough decision regarding prioritizing expenditures.

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

The above is the perfect example of why normal America does not take the right wing seriously.

 

[Edgetho]

I'm not sure how you can realistically calculate a percentage rate without knowing the costs for the federal government to carry out it's constitutional obligations and then determining the most efficient (and least economically harmful) way of collecting that revenue. Certainly the income tax system we have now is grossly inefficient (billions of man hours wasted every year on income tax preparation) as well as unjust (all sorts of favoritism based on economic activity type, income level, income type, martial status, etc...,).

The other big unknown is how do you calculate future costs and then determine if whatever system being proposed will scale appropriately to meet those needs? You also have to consider that non-obvious taxation (aka hidden taxes) tends to facilitate disconnection between proposal-price in the minds of the people as well as allowing politicians to wiggle off the hook for making tough decision regarding prioritizing expenditures.

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

The above is the perfect example of why normal America does not take the right wing seriously.

And this is why I keep calling libtards stupid little bitches....

A Constitutional Basis for National Security and Defense

National defense is the only mandatory function of the national government.
Most of the powers granted to Congress are permissive in nature. Congress is given certain authorities but not required by the Constitution to exercise them. For example, Article One, Section Eight gives Congress power to pass a bankruptcy code, but Congress actually did not enact bankruptcy laws until well into the 19th century.

But the Constitution does require the federal government to protect the nation. Article Four, Section Four states that the “United States shall guarantee to every State a republican form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion.” In other words, even if the federal government chose to exercise no other power, it must, under the Constitution, provide for the common defense.
National defense is exclusively the function of the national government.

BTW, The Heritage Foundation was established during the Nixon years in protest over his abuses of power

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

Please don't bore me with your idiotic and juvenile interpretation of the Preamble. It has no meaning or force of law. None. The SCOTUS has said so on numerous occasions.

Now that we've got that cleared up, please show me where in the Constitution is the duty to provide Food Stamps for people too fucking stupid to feed themselves.

Show me where in the Constitution is the duty to construct a Welfare system so onerous that it is close to breaking us.

Please show me in the Constitution where there is a requirement for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA.....

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

Now prance along, little one. Pretend you weren't just schooled but make sure you impress your little friends OUTSIDE the USMB on how smart you are when you quote me.

 

[eflatminor]

Or what about your oil, the bulk of which comes from a continent filled with terrorists.

Your ignorance is showing. We get most of our oil from right here in the USA, nearly 40%. Next is Mexico/Latin America (20%), then Canada at 15%.

But I'm sure you're spot on with your other points...

 

[NightFox]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

I'm not sure how you can realistically calculate a percentage rate without knowing the costs for the federal government to carry out it's constitutional obligations and then determining the most efficient (and least economically harmful) way of collecting that revenue. Certainly the income tax system we have now is grossly inefficient (billions of man hours wasted every year on income tax preparation) as well as unjust (all sorts of favoritism based on economic activity type, income level, income type, martial status, etc...,).

The other big unknown is how do you calculate future costs and then determine if whatever system being proposed will scale appropriately to meet those needs? You also have to consider that non-obvious taxation (aka hidden taxes) tends to facilitate disconnection between proposal-price in the minds of the people as well as allowing politicians to wiggle off the hook for making tough decision regarding prioritizing expenditures.

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

Articles I,II and III beg to differ with your assessment.

for example:

Article I , section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

 

[Pete7469]

I want a flat rate at around 15 percent. No loop holes no deductions and a base amount earned before paying taxes at all.

I dunno....

What would that base rate be? $50K? Wouldn't that make people want to either earn just under it, or a lot more over that? Or would you start the tax at earnings over $50K?

I would favor the latter.

 

[editec]

Black market concerns?

Since taxes are already built into the price of the product we buy, why would it be any different?

Which is why I am for Consumption or FAIR TAX.

HOW did we survive before WE were hijacked by the 16th Amendment?

Tariffs mostly...and taxes on alcohol, plus selling some of the vast lands we held in common (by stealing it from the original owners, of course just like good materialists have been doing since time began).

Yeah that's how the government was THEN paid for.

So...want to try funding our FED government with TARIFFS now?

Oddly enough the RNC and DNC are both obviously opposed to that idea, what with both of them basically being FREE TRAITORS and all.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

For the richest, most evil bastard in the country, what should their maximum income tax rate be?

I say 10%, that's enough for God.

I favor the Fair Tax, but this question assumes we don't change tax systems.

EDIT: Per an excellent point from iamwhatiseem, my intent in the ranges is that your rate is somewhere in that range. I did not mean you are OK with the entire range. I didn't want to get carried away with the number of choices.

A tax rate of 11 to 49% would solve our nation's budgetary problems. Money is a tool for accomplishing goals, a simple medium. Those who demand more and more income are greedy and belong on a doctors couch. They are useless and make life more difficult for the rest of us. They are expendable.

How stupid... the only people demanding more income are the leftwing parasites... the way you get more income is your earn it.

Give it a whirl one day.

 

[Edgetho]

I'm not sure how you can realistically calculate a percentage rate without knowing the costs for the federal government to carry out it's constitutional obligations and then determining the most efficient (and least economically harmful) way of collecting that revenue. Certainly the income tax system we have now is grossly inefficient (billions of man hours wasted every year on income tax preparation) as well as unjust (all sorts of favoritism based on economic activity type, income level, income type, martial status, etc...,).

The other big unknown is how do you calculate future costs and then determine if whatever system being proposed will scale appropriately to meet those needs? You also have to consider that non-obvious taxation (aka hidden taxes) tends to facilitate disconnection between proposal-price in the minds of the people as well as allowing politicians to wiggle off the hook for making tough decision regarding prioritizing expenditures.

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

Articles I,II and III beg to differ with your assessment.

for example:

Article I , section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Those are 'permissive' powers. It says the 'Congress can declare War' but it doesn't say it has to.

It says a lot of things it CAN do but there is only ONE Mandated duty of the National Government that it MUST do....

"United States shall guarantee to every State a republican form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion.”

 

[NYcarbineer]

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

The above is the perfect example of why normal America does not take the right wing seriously.

And this is why I keep calling libtards stupid little bitches....

A Constitutional Basis for National Security and Defense

National defense is the only mandatory function of the national government.
Most of the powers granted to Congress are permissive in nature. Congress is given certain authorities but not required by the Constitution to exercise them. For example, Article One, Section Eight gives Congress power to pass a bankruptcy code, but Congress actually did not enact bankruptcy laws until well into the 19th century.

But the Constitution does require the federal government to protect the nation. Article Four, Section Four states that the “United States shall guarantee to every State a republican form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion.” In other words, even if the federal government chose to exercise no other power, it must, under the Constitution, provide for the common defense.
National defense is exclusively the function of the national government.

BTW, The Heritage Foundation was established during the Nixon years in protest over his abuses of power

Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text

Please don't bore me with your idiotic and juvenile interpretation of the Preamble. It has no meaning or force of law. None. The SCOTUS has said so on numerous occasions.

Now that we've got that cleared up, please show me where in the Constitution is the duty to provide Food Stamps for people too fucking stupid to feed themselves.

Show me where in the Constitution is the duty to construct a Welfare system so onerous that it is close to breaking us.

Please show me in the Constitution where there is a requirement for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA.....

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

Now prance along, little one. Pretend you weren't just schooled but make sure you impress your little friends OUTSIDE the USMB on how smart you are when you quote me.

It is a constitutional duty of the President to faithfully execute all federal laws. Article 2

 

[NightFox]

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

Articles I,II and III beg to differ with your assessment.

for example:

Article I , section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Those are 'permissive' powers. It says the 'Congress can declare War' but it doesn't say it has to.

Distinction without difference, believe me I'd like nothing better than a federal government that confined it's activities to just national defense, however I recognize the reality that the founders conferred explicit authority to the Federal Government for the purpose of using it to carry out the functions related to that authority and thus implicitly assigning responsibility for those functions.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The US Constitution details only one duty to the Federal Government..... The protection of our Borders from Invasion.

THAT is the ONLY Constitutional duty of the Federal Government.

None others. Not one. Zero.

Articles I,II and III beg to differ with your assessment.

for example:

Article I , section 8

1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Those are 'permissive' powers. It says the 'Congress can declare War' but it doesn't say it has to.

It says a lot of things it CAN do but there is only ONE Mandated duty of the National Government that it MUST do....

"United States shall guarantee to every State a republican form of government and shall protect each of them against invasion.”

What is your point? That having the power to do something is not really the power to do something unless it's the duty/requirement to do something?

That's idiocy.