What we "learn" from Trump's speeches

[Correll]

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!! The GOP lengthened the recession with their opposition to investing in the US!!! Kick em out and get this country moving again!!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

Well stated......The simplicity of the choices gets overlooked because of long-held prejudices.

His post was moronic.

"Prejudices"? What are you talking about?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

No, it's the Republicans who kept us out of the same straits as Europe. Spend, spend, spend. Give, give give. How do you think Greece got this way? What about Puerto Rico?

So between an extremely successful businessman/ entertainer and a Socialist, you'd vote for the Socialist. Then you wonder why we need to keep you people out of power.

 

[nat4900]

Does the US really need more uneducated and unskilled workers?

Well we DO already have lots of uneducated and unskilled voters like you, don't you think?

 

[fishhardnj]

[

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!! The GOP lengthened the recession with their opposition to investing in the US!!! Kick em out and get this country moving again!!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

Trump is the only one who is against importing a million Third World unskilled and uneducated workers a year.

Does the US really need more uneducated and unskilled workers?

Your post is nothing but leftie talking points. Do you ever question what you are told?

Yes!!! That's why I can only watch Faux News for 10 seconds

 

[fishhardnj]

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

No, it's the Republicans who kept us out of the same straits as Europe. Spend, spend, spend. Give, give give. How do you think Greece got this way? What about Puerto Rico?

So between an extremely successful businessman/ entertainer and a Socialist, you'd vote for the Socialist. Then you wonder why we need to keep you people out of power.

Extremely successful businessman??? all his investors lost money - his casino went bankrupt. I trust he can do the same for America - He;ll get richer while bankrupting the country!!!

 

[fishhardnj]

Does the US really need more uneducated and unskilled workers?

Well we DO already have lots of uneducated and unskilled voters like you, don't you think?

Plenty down south....do they even teach modern day science down there or is it still just creationism???

 

[fishhardnj]

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

No, it's the Republicans who kept us out of the same straits as Europe. Spend, spend, spend. Give, give give. How do you think Greece got this way? What about Puerto Rico?

So between an extremely successful businessman/ entertainer and a Socialist, you'd vote for the Socialist. Then you wonder why we need to keep you people out of power.

Republicans deregulated the banks so much they got us into that mess!!!! and now Wall street's puppet politicians are running for President..

 

[fishhardnj]

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!! The GOP lengthened the recession with their opposition to investing in the US!!! Kick em out and get this country moving again!!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

Well stated......The simplicity of the choices gets overlooked because of long-held prejudices.

No prejudice - anyone with a functioning brain can whittle that list down pretty fast...

 

[fishhardnj]

Most Americans know our government is broke and out of control and we are screwing up big time. Trump seems to offer an alternative to that.

If the other Republican candidates had any balls they could out Trump Trump.

Instead they play the game of not trying to offend anybody and because of that they all look weak compared to Mr Obnoxious Loudmouth New Yorker.

Trump has tapped into the frustration Conservatives have with RINOs and that is why he is leading in the polls.

Ironically Trump may be a RINO himself but nobody knows for sure because Trump is setting the tone for the debate.

The government is neither 'broken' nor 'out of control,' that's the errant perception of those on the extreme right.

Indeed, Americans correctly understand that the problem is in fact the extreme right, partisan Congressional republicans who refuse to pursue sound, responsible governance and refuse to compromise with the president and Congressional democrats.

The problem is Congressional republicans who seek to 'shut down' the government if they don't get their way, lurching from one fiscal showdown to another, budgeting always on the brink of fiscal disaster, resulting in the credit rating downgrade, sequesters, and legislation in no way beneficial to the American people.

Trump represents more of the same from the right: petulant inaction, foot-dragging, and partisan temper-tantrums.

The last thing America needs is what Trump and his supporters advocate; what America needs is for sane, responsible republicans to take back their party – take it back from the social right, Christian fundamentalists, and inane extremists hostile to sound, responsible governance.

government is indeed out of control.....our national debt proves it......and perhaps the stock market is finally catching on to the un-sustainability of some of this.

The right is in some way being hypocritical when they aren't willing to cut military spending to lower the debt....but give them some points for trying in other ways to lower the debt.

Debt is not a problem - UK has been in debt since 1540....its how economies expand...borrow at low rates and invest in the future...US needs better infrastructure, transport, energy grid etc if want to keep up with developed world! It was a sin not to invest more in 2008-2014 at low rates and create jobs when we needed them. Stupid Congress nixes everything!!! THey just wany Obama to fail - couldn't care less about the US population - they know Fox can brainwash em into thinking they are on theri side...

 

[dcraelin]

Most Americans know our government is broke and out of control and we are screwing up big time. Trump seems to offer an alternative to that.

If the other Republican candidates had any balls they could out Trump Trump.

Instead they play the game of not trying to offend anybody and because of that they all look weak compared to Mr Obnoxious Loudmouth New Yorker.

Trump has tapped into the frustration Conservatives have with RINOs and that is why he is leading in the polls.

Ironically Trump may be a RINO himself but nobody knows for sure because Trump is setting the tone for the debate.

The government is neither 'broken' nor 'out of control,' that's the errant perception of those on the extreme right.

Indeed, Americans correctly understand that the problem is in fact the extreme right, partisan Congressional republicans who refuse to pursue sound, responsible governance and refuse to compromise with the president and Congressional democrats.

The problem is Congressional republicans who seek to 'shut down' the government if they don't get their way, lurching from one fiscal showdown to another, budgeting always on the brink of fiscal disaster, resulting in the credit rating downgrade, sequesters, and legislation in no way beneficial to the American people.

Trump represents more of the same from the right: petulant inaction, foot-dragging, and partisan temper-tantrums.

The last thing America needs is what Trump and his supporters advocate; what America needs is for sane, responsible republicans to take back their party – take it back from the social right, Christian fundamentalists, and inane extremists hostile to sound, responsible governance.

government is indeed out of control.....our national debt proves it......and perhaps the stock market is finally catching on to the un-sustainability of some of this.

The right is in some way being hypocritical when they aren't willing to cut military spending to lower the debt....but give them some points for trying in other ways to lower the debt.

Debt is not a problem - UK has been in debt since 1540....its how economies expand...borrow at low rates and invest in the future...US needs better infrastructure, transport, energy grid etc if want to keep up with developed world! It was a sin not to invest more in 2008-2014 at low rates and create jobs when we needed them. Stupid Congress nixes everything!!! THey just wany Obama to fail - couldn't care less about the US population - they know Fox can brainwash em into thinking they are on theri side...

The whole "infrastructure" argument is largely BS. TV personalities who know nothing about infrastructure just love saying the word. I worked in construction for years....the need is overblown. In fact I would say a large chunk of the spending in infrastructure is sent down a corrupt rat hole.

Debt however is a problem, what we have is unsustainable debt.I would say the UKs debt was low enough where they could keep up with it. plus it was interrupted by war....which I think perhaps has the effect of resetting the clock.

I agree with you largely about the negative effects of FOX news tho too.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

only 2 candidates speak from their heart!!!!
One is Trump - a dope!!!
Other is Bernie - and he makes sense!!!!

anyone who makes <$100,000 and does not support Bernie, is voting for the 0.1% status quo!!!! which is against you and your children's self interest. Hard to blame people when they are brainwashed by Fox which is controlled by a self interested billionaire!!!! Go ahead - keep America and your kids backward for a generation while the rest of the world passes us out! if it wasn't for the FED and Obama we'd be in same dire straits as Europe!!!!

fishhardnj yahoo

No, it's the Republicans who kept us out of the same straits as Europe. Spend, spend, spend. Give, give give. How do you think Greece got this way? What about Puerto Rico?

So between an extremely successful businessman/ entertainer and a Socialist, you'd vote for the Socialist. Then you wonder why we need to keep you people out of power.

Extremely successful businessman??? all his investors lost money - his casino went bankrupt. I trust he can do the same for America - He;ll get richer while bankrupting the country!!!

That's the way it works in business. You win some and lose some. But a good business person has more wins than losses. Any company would be happy with an employee like that. It works that way in business, it works that way in sports, it works that way in any sector of the entertainment industry.

 

[dcraelin]

His immigration policy would be a good place to start.

Why don't your support the idea that the 14th amendment was designed to apply to anyone who's mom snuck over the border and squirted them out onto the sand?

Or maybe explain how millions and millions of more uneducated and unskilled workers is what this nation needs to compete in the 21st century?

Have at it.

Sure, illegal immigration is a problem in this country, maybe trumps plan would work, but I don't think his plan will work. Maybe it will. It's certainly his most popular point.

Can you refute the rest of my points about trumps garbage plans?

Your "refutation" of Trumps point was " I don't think his plan will work".

And you have the nerve to ask me to "refute" your spin points?

Spin points? Those are trumps campaign points, and I stand convinced that maybe his immigration plan will work. You have the opportunity now to convince me on the rest of his plans. A real win for trump if you can. I'll keep an open mind. Maybe I was wrong. So please, tell me more about Trump beyond the immigration plan.

i don't believe you.

Immigration is my biggest issue. I picked it out of your shotgun fallacy post, and the moment I addressed it, you back pedaled.

No, you picked out the only point you knew how to address, prove me wrong and pick another one. His plans for Saudi Arabia? ISIS? China? Health care?

Immigration may be your biggest issue but I would sincerely question if it is your only issue.

I have argued extensively against trumps immigration plan as unreasonable and an inevitable human rights violations. I don't feel like getting in that argument that goes nowhere again. So, for the sake of argument, I will say maybe I'm wrong, maybe it will work out great.

Now please, explain to me ANY of trumps other policy points.

I have asked you and two others repeatedly and no one can give me an answer, is trumps only policy a witchhunt and a wall? Because it seems like no one can explain trumps plans beyond immigration

I invite you to try and you just can't. Pretty easy to see either he is a one trick pony or you are.

can anybody explain any of the positions of any of the candidates?....within broad outlines is all...
Trump says he wants to take the oil from ISIS.....wants a different set of people to negotiate our trade deals......wants to simplify our tax code...but is ok with the rich paying a higher percentage. He doesnt like common core.

we also try and judge candidates by their past positions...Trump was right on Iraq being a mistake.....that is a big one in my book.

 

[dcraelin]

We have some real stupid people in the Republican party--that don't know that there are millions of LEGAL voting Hispanics in this country--that will vote against any Republican running for office, based on Trump's continual rhetoric against them. Making it IMPOSSIBLE for Republicans to win the White House.

Donald Trump is the Clinton/Trump plan for Hillary to get escorted into the White House, and nothing else. Sometimes you are required to listen to other candidates to get the drift of what is actually going on.

I once saw Gwen Ifil of PBS interview a group on various issues......a member of a Colorado group was a Hispanic immigrant who was against illegal immigration.....once she stated her view she was dutifully ignored by Ifil..........

just because they share a heritage with most illegals coming across our borders does not mean Hispanics will reflexively vote against someone who wants to enforce the law.

 

[billyerock1991]

the problem trump has is he makes statements that aren't totally factual ... you are right he is a demagog ... he takes situations that are less then .001% of what has happen, then turns it around to feed the republican frenzy ... take for instance, you will get argument here on this board.... hillarys Emails... she didn't commit any crime .... but to hear it from the right its the crime of the century ... the goverrment passed a law after the fact ... no republicans want to hold her accountable for it... now trump jumps on it with the rest of the republicans .... saying she has comitted a crime ... the FBI isn't investagating hillary ... they are investagating her server to see how to stop this kind of thing from government officials ... she will not be charged with anything ... when that happens the republicans will be all over that saying she's getting special treatment ... you watch

You are such a great example of a liberal/progressive and definitely UNEDUCATED!

You can't use a "period"! NOT one completed sentence!

Also you lack of education, (common with LIPs,FFOs like you ) is further evidenced by "hillarys" "Emails"? How dumb!
Hillary's emails were on "servers" that Hillary authorized. The "servers" are not being investigated! They are inanimate objects.
The servers though were programmed to handle emails under the direct authority of Hillary.
Direct authority when she hired Huma Abedin (the spouse of Anthony "weenie" Weiner) who also breaking federal laws trashed her blackberry unauthorized.
Clinton has insisted that she never sent or received classified information at the time that it was classified, and there has been no evidence that she broke the law. However, the intelligence community's inspector general, Charles McCullough III, told Congress last week that he discovered two emails sent to Clinton that contained information classified as "Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information," which is the government's highest levels of classification.FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton's email - Business Insider

Remember Hubby Bill was barred from practising law before the high court for lying while under oath in court while being the defendant in a sexual harassment lawsuit.
Hillary can be convicted just as Petraeus was "to two years’ probation for providing classified information to a woman with whom he was having an affair."
3 Federal Laws Hillary May Have Violated By Using Personal Email Accounts for State Business

1. Mishandling Classified Information
Executive Order 13526 and 18 U.S.C Sec. 793(f) of the federal code make it unlawful to send of store classified information on personal email. Casey Harper at The Daily Caller delved into this angle:

“‘By using a private email system, Secretary Clinton violated the Federal Records Act and the State Department’s Foreign Affairs Manual regarding records management, and worse, could have left classified and top secret documents vulnerable to cyber attack,’ Cause of Action Executive Director Dan Epstein said in an email to reporters.

‘This is an egregious violation of the law, and if it were anyone else, they could be facing fines and criminal prosecution.’”

Harper goes on to point out that multiple violations of this law have been enforced recently, including in 1999, when former CIA Director John M. Deutch’s security clearance was suspended for using his personal email to send classified information.

Additionally, this past week, Gen. David Patraeus pleaded guilty for mishandling classified information by using a Gmail account instead of his official government email.

2. Violation of The 2009 Federal Records Act
Section 1236.22 of the 2009 National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) requirements states that:

“Agencies that allow employees to send and receive official electronic mail messages using a system not operated by the agency must ensure that Federal records sent or received on such systems are preserved in the appropriate agency record keeping system.”

According to the original story on Clinton’s emails published in The New York Times:

“Federal regulations, since 2009, have required that all emails be preserved as part of an agency’s record-keeping system. In Mrs. Clinton’s case, her emails were kept on her personal account and her staff took no steps to have them preserved as part of State Department record.

In response to a State Department request, Mrs. Clinton’s advisers, late last year, reviewed her account and decided which emails to turn over to the State Department.”

The fact that the State Department combs through the 55,000 pages of emails sent on Clinton’s private email account seems to verify that at least some of the emails Clinton sent contained classified information.

3. Violation of the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA)
Veterans for a Strong America has filed a lawsuit against the State Department over potential violations of FOIA. Joel Arends, chairman of the non-profit group, explained to the Washington Examiner that their FOIA request over the Benghazi affair specifically asked for any personal email accounts Secretary Clinton may have used:

“‘At this point in time, I think we’re the only ones that specifically asked for both her personal and government email and phone logs,’ Arends said of his group’s Benghazi-related request.”

MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell believes that the use of a personal emails server appears to be a preemptive move, specifically designed to circumvent FOIA:

“‘Hillary Clinton’s system was designed to defy Freedom of Information Act requests, which is designed to defy the law.'”
3 Federal Laws Hillary May Have Violated By Using Personal Email Accounts for State Business

NOW idiot FFO/LIP... explain your..... "hillarys Emails... she didn't commit any crime .... but to hear it from the right its the crime of the century ... the goverrment passed a law after the fact ...."...............................................................

when some one comments about sentence one should be sure of their own writing... yours is fucking up all over the place... example: "Also you lack of education" ... reallly ??? thats correct ???I think not ... when repub-lie-cans, like yourself, quote law, the laws you are quoting is after the fact you moron... she will not recieve any kind of legal actions ... and you can't stand that Idea ... "May have violated" ... really ??? maybe she violated it ??? love those repub-lie-cans with all their quotes of the law none which apply to hillary ... ,thats just killing them ... nice try no banana for you

 

[billyerock1991]

I dislike all the Republican candidates because they embrace radical right-wing policies that place big business on a pedestal while ignoring the plight of average citizens.

.

Are you kidding?

Most of them are big government Progressive that will maintain the welfare state, debt and high taxation. Hardly "radical right wing-policies". Only one of the candidates seems to even be interested in sealing the border.

By the way, Obama bailed out Wall Street and two major auto companies and gave subsidies to many business. He got more campaign donations from Wall Street in both 2008 and 2012 than either of the Republicans.

For the average citizen he increased poverty, increased the cost of health care, decreased family income and put all our children in debt. If anybody is ignoring the plight of the average citizen it has been him.

you need to look a little harder at who bailed out wall street first ... it was the bush administration .. when obama took office he added in regulations whch made sure we got our tax dollars back with interest.. the majority of the campaign donations came from his web site from people like me donating ... you must be ignorant of the facts like all republicans

 

[billyerock1991]

For those of us who follow international politics, as well as our own, note that Trump has been described as our home-grown version of the Italian politician, Berlusconi; however, I would just add that Trump is Berlusconi on steroids.

Question: How many of those counties have "birthright citizenship" like we do, right now?

I could care less about other countries laws .... we aren't talking about other countries laws ... we are talking about our countries laws ... we have a constitution ... our constitution states it .... now are you trying to tell us you don't want to follow our constitution because on one law??? now you want to compare us to other countries and their laws ???? we are a country of immigrants you moron

 

[healthmyths]

For those of us who follow international politics, as well as our own, note that Trump has been described as our home-grown version of the Italian politician, Berlusconi; however, I would just add that Trump is Berlusconi on steroids.

Question: How many of those counties have "birthright citizenship" like we do, right now?

I could care less about other countries laws .... we aren't talking about other countries laws ... we are talking about our countries laws ... we have a constitution ... our constitution states it .... now are you trying to tell us you don't want to follow our constitution because on one law??? now you want to compare us to other countries and their laws ???? we are a country of immigrants you moron

ONE f..king mistake compared to your constant idiocy of grammar and punctuation!
For example: the possessive in punctuation is "our country's laws" as "our" is singular!
AND more important you totally inept ignoramus... I am a father-in-law of a Naturalized CITIZEN meaning she took the LEGAL route for immigration to the USA. THIS you dumb f...k is the issue. YOU are all for people "illegally" just the same as breaking into your home "illegally" breaking into the USA illegally!
Do you understand I love legal immigrants! They are the backbone of the country which again you really take exception is WHY they make the USA
exceptional! It is the history of the USA that "legal Immigrants" coming from countries that don't recognize their exceptionality is what makes the USA GREAT!

And YOU are certainly a perfect example of person who is totally inept both in understanding the basics of simple grammar and punctuation.
You....are...simply...incapable...of...using...a...PERIOD!!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I dislike all the Republican candidates because they embrace radical right-wing policies that place big business on a pedestal while ignoring the plight of average citizens.

.

Are you kidding?

Most of them are big government Progressive that will maintain the welfare state, debt and high taxation. Hardly "radical right wing-policies". Only one of the candidates seems to even be interested in sealing the border.

By the way, Obama bailed out Wall Street and two major auto companies and gave subsidies to many business. He got more campaign donations from Wall Street in both 2008 and 2012 than either of the Republicans.

For the average citizen he increased poverty, increased the cost of health care, decreased family income and put all our children in debt. If anybody is ignoring the plight of the average citizen it has been him.

you need to look a little harder at who bailed out wall street first ... it was the bush administration .. when obama took office he added in regulations whch made sure we got our tax dollars back with interest.. the majority of the campaign donations came from his web site from people like me donating ... you must be ignorant of the facts like all republicans

Oh! So you were one of the hundreds of people buying those $20,000 per dinner plate fund raising tickets.

 

[Correll]

For those of us who follow international politics, as well as our own, note that Trump has been described as our home-grown version of the Italian politician, Berlusconi; however, I would just add that Trump is Berlusconi on steroids.

Question: How many of those counties have "birthright citizenship" like we do, right now?

I could care less about other countries laws .... we aren't talking about other countries laws ... we are talking about our countries laws ... we have a constitution ... our constitution states it .... now are you trying to tell us you don't want to follow our constitution because on one law??? now you want to compare us to other countries and their laws ???? we are a country of immigrants you moron

I was responding to someone who was discussing foreign views on Trump.

My point was that it is odd that they considering him negatively when he most radical proposal is to be more like them.

I guess this went over your head, you moron.

 

[billyerock1991]

For those of us who follow international politics, as well as our own, note that Trump has been described as our home-grown version of the Italian politician, Berlusconi; however, I would just add that Trump is Berlusconi on steroids.

Question: How many of those counties have "birthright citizenship" like we do, right now?

I could care less about other countries laws .... we aren't talking about other countries laws ... we are talking about our countries laws ... we have a constitution ... our constitution states it .... now are you trying to tell us you don't want to follow our constitution because on one law??? now you want to compare us to other countries and their laws ???? we are a country of immigrants you moron

I was responding to someone who was discussing foreign views on Trump.

My point was that it is odd that they considering him negatively when he most radical proposal is to be more like them.

I guess this went over your head, you moron.

the real truth here is, I went way over your head... as was I saying the big problem they have is people like them, talk about other countries laws ... Just like trump has and is doing ... then they try to justify their post, which by the way I clearly understood .... by them trying to do what I call "look at the shiny object" ... which I know you won't understand that statement .. so I'll explain it to you to keep it simple ....so I doesn't go way over your head ... when they see a law that they don't like they say "Hey look over here", look at what this other country does .... they don't give birth rights, so why should we ... I clearly understood what you are trying to do ... the problem those types have is they scream all the time that we liberals don't follow the constitution ... so when we do, when its against their favor, they say we liberals only think about what we want ... then they come here and try to compare other countries laws to ours ... thats bull shit and you know it .... as I said we are a country of immigs... if we didn't allow those immigrants to have their children become citizen when they are born here then we wouldn't exist .