What would Africa be like if it were never colonized by Europeans?

[flacaltenn]

18 posts deleted. Cleaned from page six. 3 or 4 warnings handed out for not sticking to or respecting this SPECIFIC topic in every posts. Too much personal sparring and taunting.

Anyone who got a post deletion and/or warning is now subject to being thread banned if this continues to get personal and/or drifts off of the SPECIFIC topic.

 

[flacaltenn]

But a vehement critic of corrupt, violent, and incompetent govt with totally unqualified leadership.

Seems to me the United States of America has had this type of leadership for many of it's years of existence, including current ones.

Well of course. Especially the inept and incompetent part. The DIFFERENCE IS -- our system reserves enough power to the people to largely ignore, work around, or outpace the inept sloths. So in OUR case, the govt is usually YEARS BEHIND any issue before they even react to it.

In a dictatorship for life, practicing rampant nepotism, and STEALING from it's people, there are no many good "work arounds"... Besides Zimbabwe, we have Nigeria and at least 6 or 8 other blatant examples of this in Sub Saharan Africa today.

Excuse after excuse after excuse. And lies even

Explain how what I said is either a lie OR an excuse. I pointed out the difference between freedom and tyranny. Do YOU not understand the difference either? Or you just mad at me?

 

[flacaltenn]

The Africa They Never Show You.

Cool pics. How much of that is foreign investment from those racist White Imperialist nations? Hilton and Marriot are just fine with building convention centers and hotels most anywhere...

 

[flacaltenn]

Africa is poor and 5 other myths | Simon Moss | TEDxWarwick

Did you actually WATCH the video? The relationship between the per capita income and the "wealth of nat resources" is the QUALITY of leadership and govt. And in the case of most African countries -- the leadership is RANSACKING those countries. That's his point. Sitting on a gold mine means NOTHING to the country if profits and lease revenues never make it back into infrastructure. OR if that infrastructure in concentrated ONLY in the Capitol cities.

Don't think you watch it at all. Since his MAIN complaint is that $170Bill LEAVES africa yearly as money STOLEN from the countries various treasuries by CORRUPT and dictatorial govt. That's right pal. No more evil white Imperialists robbing Africa. Now the King of the tribe robs Africa. And all of their crony ministers.

And his other point is that sending $50Bill in foreign aid from countries OUTSIDE of Africa -- to Africa -- just ENCOURAGES this graft and corruption if we don't take measures to STOP the internal theft as a global effort.

Did you mean this to be a POSITIVE thing?

 

[IM2]

But a vehement critic of corrupt, violent, and incompetent govt with totally unqualified leadership.

Seems to me the United States of America has had this type of leadership for many of it's years of existence, including current ones.

Well of course. Especially the inept and incompetent part. The DIFFERENCE IS -- our system reserves enough power to the people to largely ignore, work around, or outpace the inept sloths. So in OUR case, the govt is usually YEARS BEHIND any issue before they even react to it.

In a dictatorship for life, practicing rampant nepotism, and STEALING from it's people, there are no many good "work arounds"... Besides Zimbabwe, we have Nigeria and at least 6 or 8 other blatant examples of this in Sub Saharan Africa today.

Excuse after excuse after excuse. And lies even

Explain how what I said is either a lie OR an excuse. I pointed out the difference between freedom and tyranny. Do YOU not understand the difference either? Or you just mad at me?

It's pretty simple. You don't really understand how Mugabe got power as he was elected. You seem to believe that zimbabwe was better off under Apartheid and you only consider economics not social or the quality of life for the majority of the people. You had a white minority rule there and they ruled by force. No matter how much money they were making that is not a successful government.

 

[IM2]

The Africa They Never Show You.

Cool pics. How much of that is foreign investment from those racist White Imperialist nations? Hilton and Marriot are just fine with building convention centers and hotels most anywhere...

How much money have those racist white imperial nations stolen from nations in Africa? Do you care to answer that question?

 

[IM2]

Africa is poor and 5 other myths | Simon Moss | TEDxWarwick

Did you actually WATCH the video? The relationship between the per capita income and the "wealth of nat resources" is the QUALITY of leadership and govt. And in the case of most African countries -- the leadership is RANSACKING those countries. That's his point. Sitting on a gold mine means NOTHING to the country if profits and lease revenues never make it back into infrastructure. OR if that infrastructure in concentrated ONLY in the Capitol cities.

Don't think you watch it at all. Since his MAIN complaint is that $170Bill LEAVES africa yearly as money STOLEN from the countries various treasuries by CORRUPT and dictatorial govt. That's right pal. No more evil white Imperialists robbing Africa. Now the King of the tribe robs Africa. And all of their crony ministers.

And his other point is that sending $50Bill in foreign aid from countries OUTSIDE of Africa -- to Africa -- just ENCOURAGES this graft and corruption if we don't take measures to STOP the internal theft as a global effort.

Did you mean this to be a POSITIVE thing?

Actually I believe he said 400 billion leaves not. 170 billion. You consistently ignore facts in order to try coming up with your twisted opinions. Like the 1.8 trillion that has left Africa and gone to white nations. Or how those black dictators have .money in banks in white nations. Seems you didn't watch the video and you certainly did not pay attention to it all. Last, there are white governments all over this planet robbing people in those nations so then your mentioning how blacks are robbing and that's the only reason why Africa is the way it is in your mind, is an argument that has no merit. Why do you whites think you get to live by a double standard?

 

[flacaltenn]

But a vehement critic of corrupt, violent, and incompetent govt with totally unqualified leadership.

Seems to me the United States of America has had this type of leadership for many of it's years of existence, including current ones.

Well of course. Especially the inept and incompetent part. The DIFFERENCE IS -- our system reserves enough power to the people to largely ignore, work around, or outpace the inept sloths. So in OUR case, the govt is usually YEARS BEHIND any issue before they even react to it.

In a dictatorship for life, practicing rampant nepotism, and STEALING from it's people, there are no many good "work arounds"... Besides Zimbabwe, we have Nigeria and at least 6 or 8 other blatant examples of this in Sub Saharan Africa today.

Excuse after excuse after excuse. And lies even

Explain how what I said is either a lie OR an excuse. I pointed out the difference between freedom and tyranny. Do YOU not understand the difference either? Or you just mad at me?

It's pretty simple. You don't really understand how Mugabe got power as he was elected. You seem to believe that zimbabwe was better off under Apartheid and you only consider economics not social or the quality of life for the majority of the people. You had a white minority rule there and they ruled by force. No matter how much money they were making that is not a successful government.

I do understand the Imperialism needed to be overthrown. But as is often the case, just like Czarist Russia being toppled by Communists -- what REPLACES it is not necessarily an improvement. And the realities of Rhodesia were there was something like 17 Million Blacks and only 0.25Million whites. So it was essential that blacks be incorporated into the economy. The whites DOMINATED the economy because the residents knew mostly about subsistence farming and the whites practiced farming on an industrial scale and had more access to capital from overseas. Same with mining the nat resources. The expertise is REQUIRED to build an economy.

Politicians are not patient people. They cannot wait 2 generations to produce a competent "can do" healthy and educated population to base a vibrant economy on. In that way, Imperialism actually SHORTENED the time for Rhodesia/Zimbabwe to stand on it's own. Because the main measure of govt competence is how the revenues from taxes or nat resource leasing flow BACK TO THE PEOPLE..

That TED talk you posted actually explains how horrible a Mugabe style govt is for folks in African countries. When all that POTENTIAL wealth (and foreign aid) is stolen and misused. And because of lagging health, education and infrastructure, the expertise to BUILD an economy is no longer there. Because the Europeans were forcibly driven out. Driving them OUT didn't happen in South Africa. That story has a happier ending.

It would have worse sooner under Mugabe had the Rhodesians not STARTED that process. To get a country STARTED towards self sufficient and increasing prosperity.

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually I believe he said 400 billion leaves not. 170 billion. You consistently ignore facts in order to try coming up with your twisted opinions.

No the $400Bill was income from exported nat resources mostly. The $170Bill is ILLICIT STOLEN money taken from the process by corrupt African leadership on a yearly basis and parked in assets and cash in Western countries for the most part.

Like the 1.8 trillion that has left Africa and gone to white nations.

Well that's just a number. Over WHAT period of time? At the rate African Leaders are STEALING money ($170Bill per year according to this guy) -- with simple math you REACH $1.8Trill in just over 10 years. Actually the main advantage African countries have that other nations are jealous of -- is that their EXPORTS to the rest of world are very high. Meaning that MORE LEGITIMATE money comes IN from other nations, than goes out. That's not stealing by white nations. That's PRODUCTIVE INCOME for those African nations.

They just need to keep it from the hands of their cruddy leadership.. Along with all the stolen and diverted to cronies Foreign Aid monies. It's a HUGE chunk of total African economy..

 

[flacaltenn]

The Africa They Never Show You.

Cool pics. How much of that is foreign investment from those racist White Imperialist nations? Hilton and Marriot are just fine with building convention centers and hotels most anywhere...

How much money have those racist white imperial nations stolen from nations in Africa? Do you care to answer that question?

They set up massive exports and trade OUT of Africa. I'm afraid you're counting all that as THEFT, when the benefactor really should be the EXPORTING countries. Now you can argue about how all that profit is SPENT or DISTRIBUTED -- but it's all net INCOME to the African country that created it.

Are you trying to tell me that the predominantly white leadership of Rhodesia allowed themselves to be robbed by white westerners? Not bloody likely. It's a matter of where the "profits" were spent once the country received them.

 

[baileyn45]

The whole premise of the video is rather silly. If the Europeans hadn't shown up, the Arabs would have continued to conquer Africa. On top of that there are other questions that the world needs to ask

What if the Europeans had never landed in the Americas? Well sooner or later someone would have crossed one of those oceans, whether from Africa or Asia, and the native peoples would have died of disease en masse.

What if the Turks hadn't rampaged, raped, slaughtered and enslaved peoples in eastern Europe for 400 years? My ancestors probably wouldn't have fled Europe for America.

What if Islam hadn't rampaged and slaughtered their way through the Asian subcontinent? There would be a hell of a lot more Hindus, that's for sure.

What if the mongols hadn't slaughtered their way across all of Asia and into Europe. Well for starters Hungarians wouldn't be in Europe

What if Slavic peoples hadn't expanded into eastern Europe. Hitler wouldn't have had the idea that the Germans needed to reclaim the historic lands of Germanic tribes.

We could do this forever.

 

[Mindful]

The whole premise of the video is rather silly. If the Europeans hadn't shown up, the Arabs would have continued to conquer Africa. On top of that there are other questions that the world needs to ask

What if the Europeans had never landed in the Americas? Well sooner or later someone would have crossed one of those oceans, whether from Africa or Asia, and the native peoples would have died of disease en masse.

What if the Turks hadn't rampaged, raped, slaughtered and enslaved peoples in eastern Europe for 400 years? My ancestors probably wouldn't have fled Europe for America.

What if Islam hadn't rampaged and slaughtered their way through the Asian subcontinent? There would be a hell of a lot more Hindus, that's for sure.

What if the mongols hadn't slaughtered their way across all of Asia and into Europe. Well for starters Hungarians wouldn't be in Europe

What if Slavic peoples hadn't expanded into eastern Europe. Hitler wouldn't have had the idea that the Germans needed to reclaim the historic lands of Germanic tribes.

We could do this forever.

So you are saying, if we hadn't done it, someone else would have?

You know that the Arabs got as far as Iceland, to capture slaves? I had wondered why there were blonde blue eyed Arabs at Nazareth market.

 

[TheParser]

Pardon me if someone else has already raised this point: If the Europeans had never colonized Africa, I guess that it goes without saying that today's national boundaries would not exist.

If I am not mistaken, the boundaries imposed on Africa by the European powers have contributed to terrible tribal conflicts (e.g., Rwanda).

 

[Mindful]

Pardon me if someone else has already raised this point: If the Europeans had never colonized Africa, I guess that it goes without saying that today's national boundaries would not exist.

If I am not mistaken, the boundaries imposed on Africa by the European powers have contributed to terrible tribal conflicts (e.g., Rwanda).

What the poster baileyn was implying ( think): other dominant non European powers would have colonised Africa.

 

[katsteve2012]

free of syphilis-------Europeans brought DA DISEASE to africa

More diseases than syphilis. A plethora of other diseases as well.

Disease and Depopulation of Africans during Colonialism - Global Black History

 

[katsteve2012]

I see that most of these whites are scared to look at the videos,

Comfort within the safety of ignorance?

 

[protectionist]

This is an interesting video. Besides from the uncorked foolishness we have to endure here, this is an interesting look into what Africa might have been like if not for European colonization. Interestingly it is stated that it took 500 years for Europeans to win a battle against any African nation. Funny how that happens.



.

Black Africans would still be living in mud huts, running around naked throwing spears at monkeys, chanting witch doctor chants at passing airplanes, and dying young of preventable tropical diseases.
European colonization is the best thing that ever happened to Africans.

 

[IM2]

This is an interesting video. Besides from the uncorked foolishness we have to endure here, this is an interesting look into what Africa might have been like if not for European colonization. Interestingly it is stated that it took 500 years for Europeans to win a battle against any African nation. Funny how that happens.



.

Black Africans would still be living in mud huts, running around naked throwing spears at monkeys, chanting witch doctor chants at passing airplanes, and dying young of preventable tropical diseases.
European colonization is the best thing that ever happened to Africans.

That doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[Meathead]

Black Africans would still be living in mud huts, running around naked throwing spears at monkeys, chanting witch doctor chants at passing airplanes, and dying young of preventable tropical diseases.
European colonization is the best thing that ever happened to Africans.

In much of Africa, that is still the case.

Clearly, geo-politically sub-Saharan Africa was a vacuum. The first to develop the technology to exploit it was going to do so. Arab traders did travelling over the sand of the Sahara but only on a small scale of the little that can be carried on the backs of camels. The Europeans kicked in with blue water ships and the rest is history.

Now, it looks like the Chinese are going to seize what's left.

 

[IM2]

I see that most of these whites are scared to look at the videos,

Comfort within the safety of ignorance?

It would be nice to live in the imaginary world some of these whites live in whereby they can steal and murder for 4 maybe 5 centuries, take millions from a continent and enslave people for 200 years with no pay then force them to reduced pay, implement policies and laws to keep then from getting everything whites got and believe no damage was ever done to the people they did it too.