What would you do with the second amendment?

[Daryl Hunt]

the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down

It would? The Constitution is a document of specific enumerated Federal powers, and by the 9th and 10th amendments the rest are denied to the Federal government.

So where does the Constitution give the Feds the power from stopping a State from leaving the Union?

Also, our government was founded on John Locke's principles of consent of the governed. Obviously if a State is forced to remain in the Union, there is no legitimacy of Federal government since the people did not consent

I suggest you look back at 1861. It was already tried and failed.

 

[westwall]

The US Government needs a list of all gun owners and the weapons they have.

It is the only way we can form well regulated militias

Yes, well we on the right believe that we need to have positive identification of everybody voting, and you on the left insist it's government intrusion, racism and voter oppression.

We do have identification

A signature

Cool. That means I can just use my signature anytime I want to buy a new gun. Right? No need for a photo ID. After all the government trusts people to be honest. Right?

 

[Preacher]

Leave it alone and institute sensible gun regulations

such as?

 

[Preacher]

Leave it alone and institute sensible gun regulations

Sounds like you have a desire to infringe.

Background Checks, Registration, required training, licensing.......it is what our founders wanted

Already have background checks,registration leads to confiscation when time comes. Others are ridiculous and unconstitutional and no its not even close to what our founders wanted.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The US Government needs a list of all gun owners and the weapons they have.

It is the only way we can form well regulated militias

Yes, well we on the right believe that we need to have positive identification of everybody voting, and you on the left insist it's government intrusion, racism and voter oppression.

We do have identification

A signature

Cool. That means I can just use my signature anytime I want to buy a new gun. Right? No need for a photo ID. After all the government trusts people to be honest. Right?

And maybe we can buy a van load of Nitrogen Fertilizer while we are at it along with 20 20 lb propane bottles. And don't forget the 100 gallons of Diesel Fuel as well. No one should notice the 6 vans parked in an abandoned industrial complex. You never know when you will inherit a small farm. It's no one's business but mine, right? All on a signature.

 

[Rustic]

Good points all

But i'm still searching for an irrefutable way for the 'people' to assume a militia

help me out fellas

~S~

There is only one way to have an Organized Militia according to the 2nd amendment. That would be a State Guard with all members not subject to being able to be called up by the Federal Government. AFter Hurricane Katrina, the Feds swept into Texas and tried to take control. The Texas Governor put the State Guard Commander in charge of it all and informed the Feds they were UNDER the State Guard. The Feds had to conform. The Texas State Militia was in charge. And they knew how to do it much better than the Feds. Meanwhile, in Louisiana which had no State Guard, the Feds took charge and made a friggin mess out of just about everything and are still screwing the pooch there. Today's Organized Militia is usually used in a State Emergency since much of their equipment has a dual role. But in the event of a Federal attempt at taking over a given state (not much chance of that happening) the State Guard would be there with enough numbers to at least put a dent in it and buy enough time for the rest of the nation to do a double take. AS I said, the chances of that happening are very slim since the only way that would happen would be if the US Military were to cooperate and there are some pretty serious rules written in the UCMJ (the Military Version of the Constitution of the United States) that would prevent it from happening.

But a State just might be able to bring that condition to bear by trying to secede from the Union and use force to do it. That would release Congress and POTUS from their restrictions and release the US Military from theirs. So, it could happen but not instigated by the Feds.

Your average State Militia would offer about as much of an obstruction to the Federal government as your average Girl Scout troop.

The Feds would take days to form up. The State Guards would from up within hours. The Texas State Guard could field at least 75,000 in a matter of hours and have them in place. Depending on the situtation, the News Groups might side with the State making it very uncomfortable for the Feds. But about the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down. The Governor would be arrested as would much of his entire cabinet and the state congress. At that point, in a matter of day, that 75,000 wouldn't be much of an obstacle.

The federal military would never go against their own folk, They would tell the bureaucrats to fuck off

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Good points all

But i'm still searching for an irrefutable way for the 'people' to assume a militia

help me out fellas

~S~

There is only one way to have an Organized Militia according to the 2nd amendment. That would be a State Guard with all members not subject to being able to be called up by the Federal Government. AFter Hurricane Katrina, the Feds swept into Texas and tried to take control. The Texas Governor put the State Guard Commander in charge of it all and informed the Feds they were UNDER the State Guard. The Feds had to conform. The Texas State Militia was in charge. And they knew how to do it much better than the Feds. Meanwhile, in Louisiana which had no State Guard, the Feds took charge and made a friggin mess out of just about everything and are still screwing the pooch there. Today's Organized Militia is usually used in a State Emergency since much of their equipment has a dual role. But in the event of a Federal attempt at taking over a given state (not much chance of that happening) the State Guard would be there with enough numbers to at least put a dent in it and buy enough time for the rest of the nation to do a double take. AS I said, the chances of that happening are very slim since the only way that would happen would be if the US Military were to cooperate and there are some pretty serious rules written in the UCMJ (the Military Version of the Constitution of the United States) that would prevent it from happening.

But a State just might be able to bring that condition to bear by trying to secede from the Union and use force to do it. That would release Congress and POTUS from their restrictions and release the US Military from theirs. So, it could happen but not instigated by the Feds.

Your average State Militia would offer about as much of an obstruction to the Federal government as your average Girl Scout troop.

The Feds would take days to form up. The State Guards would from up within hours. The Texas State Guard could field at least 75,000 in a matter of hours and have them in place. Depending on the situtation, the News Groups might side with the State making it very uncomfortable for the Feds. But about the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down. The Governor would be arrested as would much of his entire cabinet and the state congress. At that point, in a matter of day, that 75,000 wouldn't be much of an obstacle.

The federal military would never go against their own folk, They would tell the bureaucrats to fuck off

You know nothing about the Military Tradition, Culture, UCMJ, Oath that makes up the Military. If a state tries to break free and votes to do so, the entire State Government becomes enemies of the United States. And in the Oath that each and every service member has taken, they are to protect the Nation against enemies of the United States of America both Foreign and Domestic. I took that oath 5 times as many other did as well. In fact, every Military Person that ever served took the same exact oath. The US Congress would be well within their powers to send in the United States Military to Arrest the offending State Government to be held for trial by the Civilian Courts. And if it got bloody, the Federal Military would win that battle. You over estimate the support that your bunch of traitors would receive even in your own state. So far, two states have recently tried to vote to secede and both times the vote has failed. Even if it was successful, the Supreme Court would render the vote null and void. So it would boil down that it would either have to be forgotten about or it would have to be done using lethal force with your little bunch of traitors have no chance of winning.

Once more, you are trying to incite traitorous acts against the United States of America. You are no better than the pseudo Patriot idiot.

 

[xband]

Good points all

But i'm still searching for an irrefutable way for the 'people' to assume a militia

help me out fellas

~S~

There is only one way to have an Organized Militia according to the 2nd amendment. That would be a State Guard with all members not subject to being able to be called up by the Federal Government. AFter Hurricane Katrina, the Feds swept into Texas and tried to take control. The Texas Governor put the State Guard Commander in charge of it all and informed the Feds they were UNDER the State Guard. The Feds had to conform. The Texas State Militia was in charge. And they knew how to do it much better than the Feds. Meanwhile, in Louisiana which had no State Guard, the Feds took charge and made a friggin mess out of just about everything and are still screwing the pooch there. Today's Organized Militia is usually used in a State Emergency since much of their equipment has a dual role. But in the event of a Federal attempt at taking over a given state (not much chance of that happening) the State Guard would be there with enough numbers to at least put a dent in it and buy enough time for the rest of the nation to do a double take. AS I said, the chances of that happening are very slim since the only way that would happen would be if the US Military were to cooperate and there are some pretty serious rules written in the UCMJ (the Military Version of the Constitution of the United States) that would prevent it from happening.

But a State just might be able to bring that condition to bear by trying to secede from the Union and use force to do it. That would release Congress and POTUS from their restrictions and release the US Military from theirs. So, it could happen but not instigated by the Feds.

Your average State Militia would offer about as much of an obstruction to the Federal government as your average Girl Scout troop.

The Feds would take days to form up. The State Guards would from up within hours. The Texas State Guard could field at least 75,000 in a matter of hours and have them in place. Depending on the situtation, the News Groups might side with the State making it very uncomfortable for the Feds. But about the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down. The Governor would be arrested as would much of his entire cabinet and the state congress. At that point, in a matter of day, that 75,000 wouldn't be much of an obstacle.

The federal military would never go against their own folk, They would tell the bureaucrats to fuck off

You know nothing about the Military Tradition, Culture, UCMJ, Oath that makes up the Military. If a state tries to break free and votes to do so, the entire State Government becomes enemies of the United States. And in the Oath that each and every service member has taken, they are to protect the Nation against enemies of the United States of America both Foreign and Domestic. I took that oath 5 times as many other did as well. In fact, every Military Person that ever served took the same exact oath. The US Congress would be well within their powers to send in the United States Military to Arrest the offending State Government to be held for trial by the Civilian Courts. And if it got bloody, the Federal Military would win that battle. You over estimate the support that your bunch of traitors would receive even in your own state. So far, two states have recently tried to vote to secede and both times the vote has failed. Even if it was successful, the Supreme Court would render the vote null and void. So it would boil down that it would either have to be forgotten about or it would have to be done using lethal force with your little bunch of traitors have no chance of winning.

Once more, you are trying to incite traitorous acts against the United States of America. You are no better than the pseudo Patriot idiot.

I have to go way back to remember when I enlisted at Fort Hayes (Civil War Fort) in Columbus, Ohio. I swore to Protect and Defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic with my hand on a Bible. There was a big box of Bibles and you did not have to swear on a Bible but everyone did, even those who got drafted.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

There is only one way to have an Organized Militia according to the 2nd amendment. That would be a State Guard with all members not subject to being able to be called up by the Federal Government. AFter Hurricane Katrina, the Feds swept into Texas and tried to take control. The Texas Governor put the State Guard Commander in charge of it all and informed the Feds they were UNDER the State Guard. The Feds had to conform. The Texas State Militia was in charge. And they knew how to do it much better than the Feds. Meanwhile, in Louisiana which had no State Guard, the Feds took charge and made a friggin mess out of just about everything and are still screwing the pooch there. Today's Organized Militia is usually used in a State Emergency since much of their equipment has a dual role. But in the event of a Federal attempt at taking over a given state (not much chance of that happening) the State Guard would be there with enough numbers to at least put a dent in it and buy enough time for the rest of the nation to do a double take. AS I said, the chances of that happening are very slim since the only way that would happen would be if the US Military were to cooperate and there are some pretty serious rules written in the UCMJ (the Military Version of the Constitution of the United States) that would prevent it from happening.

But a State just might be able to bring that condition to bear by trying to secede from the Union and use force to do it. That would release Congress and POTUS from their restrictions and release the US Military from theirs. So, it could happen but not instigated by the Feds.

Your average State Militia would offer about as much of an obstruction to the Federal government as your average Girl Scout troop.

The Feds would take days to form up. The State Guards would from up within hours. The Texas State Guard could field at least 75,000 in a matter of hours and have them in place. Depending on the situtation, the News Groups might side with the State making it very uncomfortable for the Feds. But about the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down. The Governor would be arrested as would much of his entire cabinet and the state congress. At that point, in a matter of day, that 75,000 wouldn't be much of an obstacle.

The federal military would never go against their own folk, They would tell the bureaucrats to fuck off

You know nothing about the Military Tradition, Culture, UCMJ, Oath that makes up the Military. If a state tries to break free and votes to do so, the entire State Government becomes enemies of the United States. And in the Oath that each and every service member has taken, they are to protect the Nation against enemies of the United States of America both Foreign and Domestic. I took that oath 5 times as many other did as well. In fact, every Military Person that ever served took the same exact oath. The US Congress would be well within their powers to send in the United States Military to Arrest the offending State Government to be held for trial by the Civilian Courts. And if it got bloody, the Federal Military would win that battle. You over estimate the support that your bunch of traitors would receive even in your own state. So far, two states have recently tried to vote to secede and both times the vote has failed. Even if it was successful, the Supreme Court would render the vote null and void. So it would boil down that it would either have to be forgotten about or it would have to be done using lethal force with your little bunch of traitors have no chance of winning.

Once more, you are trying to incite traitorous acts against the United States of America. You are no better than the pseudo Patriot idiot.

I have to go way back to remember when I enlisted at Fort Hayes (Civil War Fort) in Columbus, Ohio. I swore to Protect and Defend the Constitution with my hand on a Bible. There was a big box of Bibles and you did not have to swear on a Bible but everyone did even those who got drafted.

I don't remember anyone relieving me of that oath. To me, it's still in effect. Sounds like yours is as well. And I have a feeling that millions of others think the same way. The Nation shall survive.

 

[xband]

Your average State Militia would offer about as much of an obstruction to the Federal government as your average Girl Scout troop.

The Feds would take days to form up. The State Guards would from up within hours. The Texas State Guard could field at least 75,000 in a matter of hours and have them in place. Depending on the situtation, the News Groups might side with the State making it very uncomfortable for the Feds. But about the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down. The Governor would be arrested as would much of his entire cabinet and the state congress. At that point, in a matter of day, that 75,000 wouldn't be much of an obstacle.

The federal military would never go against their own folk, They would tell the bureaucrats to fuck off

You know nothing about the Military Tradition, Culture, UCMJ, Oath that makes up the Military. If a state tries to break free and votes to do so, the entire State Government becomes enemies of the United States. And in the Oath that each and every service member has taken, they are to protect the Nation against enemies of the United States of America both Foreign and Domestic. I took that oath 5 times as many other did as well. In fact, every Military Person that ever served took the same exact oath. The US Congress would be well within their powers to send in the United States Military to Arrest the offending State Government to be held for trial by the Civilian Courts. And if it got bloody, the Federal Military would win that battle. You over estimate the support that your bunch of traitors would receive even in your own state. So far, two states have recently tried to vote to secede and both times the vote has failed. Even if it was successful, the Supreme Court would render the vote null and void. So it would boil down that it would either have to be forgotten about or it would have to be done using lethal force with your little bunch of traitors have no chance of winning.

Once more, you are trying to incite traitorous acts against the United States of America. You are no better than the pseudo Patriot idiot.

I have to go way back to remember when I enlisted at Fort Hayes (Civil War Fort) in Columbus, Ohio. I swore to Protect and Defend the Constitution with my hand on a Bible. There was a big box of Bibles and you did not have to swear on a Bible but everyone did even those who got drafted.

I don't remember anyone relieving me of that oath. To me, it's still in effect. Sounds like yours is as well. And I have a feeling that millions of others think the same way. The Nation shall survive.

You can't keep a good man down, not long anyways. Repeal the 2ed and all of the rest that came after have to be repealed too. Millennials want to repeal the 1st. Millennials are bat shit crazy.

 

[sparky]

So we have an irreversible oath to nation , vs. an immovable constitutional fundamental ?

Didn't our FF's want the governance to fear the people, not the other way 'round?

~S~

 

[Paulie]

The slippery slope to violating the 2nd Amendment began with laws about freed slaves having guns after the U.S. Civil War.

This was followed with gangsters not allowed to have submachine guns legally (it is very expensive to get a license) and then nobody having them.

This then led to a ban on automatic rifles, after these were finally invented shortly before WW2.

Then we got Slick Willy's ban on semi auto high cap mag rifles like the AR's and the AK's. (The Ruger's luckily were exempt from the ban.)

The whole situation is a mess now.

And the majority of the population is anti gun and gun fearing.

The rugers? Ruger is just a brand you moron, and they make their own variant of the AR-15

 

[xband]

Banish Art Class. The kid who shot up art class in Texas got spurned by his girlfriend. Eve ate the forbidden fruit.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The US Government needs a list of all gun owners and the weapons they have.

It is the only way we can form well regulated militias

Based on the fact that not one of those lists exist from the era, your claim is ridiculous. The FF's had a healthy fear of big government so made it as difficult as possible for the government to interfere with the Peoples gun ownership. They would have thrown any person making your claims into the sewer had you had the audacity to make your claim to their faces.

I disagree. They would have thrown his neck into a noose and slapped the horse's ass.

 

[kaz]

the only way this could happen would be if a State were to try and leave the union and this would leave the Feds no choice but to put the attempt down

It would? The Constitution is a document of specific enumerated Federal powers, and by the 9th and 10th amendments the rest are denied to the Federal government.

So where does the Constitution give the Feds the power from stopping a State from leaving the Union?

Also, our government was founded on John Locke's principles of consent of the governed. Obviously if a State is forced to remain in the Union, there is no legitimacy of Federal government since the people did not consent

I suggest you look back at 1861. It was already tried and failed.

Cool. Now answer the question, "So where does the Constitution give the Feds the power from stopping a State from leaving the Union?"

 

[JoeB131]

Let's get to the end game. What should the Constitution say, if anything, about guns and what power should the Federal government have to regulate them?

We should have a new Amendment that says, "Hey, guys, the Second was about Militias! Of course, you need to regulate who can own a gun!"

the thing is, this wasn't really an issue from 1787 to 2010, when people knew that the Second was about Militias. It's only after the NRA got the crazy interpretation that gun ownership was like freedom of speech and due process...

 

[xband]

xband has two guns, one short and one long. Both were bought legally at a legal gun store and I had to go through the FBI background check twice, annoying.

 

[kaz]

Let's get to the end game. What should the Constitution say, if anything, about guns and what power should the Federal government have to regulate them?

We should have a new Amendment that says, "Hey, guys, the Second was about Militias! Of course, you need to regulate who can own a gun!"

the thing is, this wasn't really an issue from 1787 to 2010, when people knew that the Second was about Militias. It's only after the NRA got the crazy interpretation that gun ownership was like freedom of speech and due process...

I like the guy who claims to be a professional writer who can't read a simple sentence. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

1) You don't grasp the first part is an explanation, not part of the right. Learn to read, Bubba. It says, because A, B. B is the right, A is just an explanation. And even then, buy a dictionary. Government does regulate, but the word does not mean government. Note when they meant government they said so, such as the full faith and credit clause and the first amendment

2) You think shall not be infringed means that government can control it. Buy a dictionary

3) You think that the second amendment is a power of government, not the people. In the ... wait for it ... bill of rights. Yes, they were out to preserve the rights of government in the bill of rights, moron

You're an awful reader. But you help people get jobs writing resumes. Oh, and they pay you lots of money to do that. Yea, sure ...

 

[JoeB131]

like the guy who claims to be a professional writer who can't read a simple sentence. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

It's not that simple, because you left out the part about a "well-regulated militia".

3) You think that the second amendment is a power of government, not the people. In the ... wait for it ... bill of rights. Yes, they were out to preserve the rights of government in the bill of rights, moron

NO, they were out to preserve the right of states to maintain their own well-regulated militias.

The thing about it is, militias have been replaced by professional armies and police forces since then.

Keep in mind, "arms" back in those days were a muzzle loading musket that could be fired once a minute if you were really well trained, so you needed a "well regulated" militia to use it to any effect.

Now an angst-filled teenager can spray as much lead into a classroom as a Revolutionary War era platoon could.

 

[JoeB131]

You're an awful reader. But you help people get jobs writing resumes. Oh, and they pay you lots of money to do that. Yea, sure ...

Quite a lot... but here's the thing...

I don't treat the Founding Slave Rapists like they shit marble. They were a bunch of dudes who dealt with the problems of their time, and the problem of their time was the Brits trying to control their militias.

The problem of our time is crazy people with guns walking into classrooms and killing a bunch of kids, which has happened TWICE this year, so far.