Whatever ever happened to the little sign ‘We have a right to refuse service’?

[JoeB131]

Exactly! So then you agree that there is absolutely no reason for the left's obsession with forcing business to do what they want.

I also have always found it comical that liberals demand that business owners do everything that liberals want, instead of liberals just launching their own business and doing it themselves. If you're a liberal and you think McDonald's doesn't pay enough, then launch your own fast food restaurant and pay everyone $72,000. But you never see liberals do that because they are too lazy and too greedy (it's easier to mooch than it is to build a business).

I think you miss the point.

"Hey, that restaurant just spread E. Coli in their food!"

Rational Person- "Close that place down until they come up to compliance with health codes."

Rottweiler - "Let the market forces do their work and wait for that company to go out of business after a few babies die. We don't want no gummit telling us what to do. The Founding Fathers never wanted a Health Department! It's unconstitutional!"

This, kids, is Libertarianism run amok.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

You have a special talent ................................

Well first off let me think you for the complement ...................

Now as far as you or anyone who would use medication as a political weapon, you are just as wrong ...............
No one has the right to refuse to medical care / medication to someone simply based on political affiliation ........................

My first couple of questions would be about how you would know the customers political affiliation to start with ??
Like I commented to CC, once a doctor/ nurse calls that script in or you walk in the door with it then you have a legal right to service.
Are you going to inquire about political affiliations before performing your duties??

So do you have a boss who agrees with this policy or will you be the owner in this case??
So you choose to be the owner, you decide who to serve based on personal observations,
You refuse to serve the gay mechanic down the street, but when your car breaks he refuses to service it for you .....................
You refuse to serve the pro abortion bitch who owns the diner, so the next time you go to the diner the waitress comes out and ask you and party to leave ..................
You refuse service to the black cop or the black fire fighter, guess how long it will be before the fire department shows up to put out your house or the law comes to check about that home invasion??

There will always be idiots like you in society, we have ways of dealing with folks like you ...................

 

[pvsi]

When I was in USSR they taught me Hitler and Nazis ate babies, then in America they taught me that Nazis made lampshades and mattresses out of Jews, and now the Fox Newsified Americans are trying to tell me that Nazis were on the side of gays. Oh boy. no wonder you don't see me posting much any more.

The gay community and the liberals have lost their little Nazi minds. A privately owned business has the right to refuse to conduct business with anybody they want. Period. It's not even open for debate.

Further still, the 1st Amendment affords you the right to practice your religious belief. And the little liberal/gay Nazi community is working so hard to trample on that right as well.

All I can say is that I hope these companies deliver the most dreadful products and services when they are unconstitutionally forced to by the liberal Nazi's. If you're a bakery and you're forced to bake a cake for a gay wedding, I hope you put 70lbs of salt in the cake and make the frosting primarily out of vinegar so that they vomit when they eat it. Then maybe word will spread in their little gay circles that your bakery isn't any good and you can be left the hell alone to conduct your private business as you see fit.

*Note - desperate Nazi liberals will try to spin this as "homophobia" because they need to justify their anti-constitutional Nazi beliefs. However, it is not. I couldn't care less if someone is gay. What I do care about however is when they unconstitutionally force someone to do their bidding because they think being gay makes them special and entitled.

It's an agenda of reeducation

And when I was in the USSR, I saw people standing in breadlines for 10-12 hours a day. Your point is?

That Christian conservatives are good people and the rest of the world are Nazi socialist scum who believe in Islamic extremism and gay rights?

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

The gay community and the liberals have lost their little Nazi minds. A privately owned business has the right to refuse to conduct business with anybody they want. Period. It's not even open for debate.

Further still, the 1st Amendment affords you the right to practice your religious belief. And the little liberal/gay Nazi community is working so hard to trample on that right as well.

All I can say is that I hope these companies deliver the most dreadful products and services when they are unconstitutionally forced to by the liberal Nazi's. If you're a bakery and you're forced to bake a cake for a gay wedding, I hope you put 70lbs of salt in the cake and make the frosting primarily out of vinegar so that they vomit when they eat it. Then maybe word will spread in their little gay circles that your bakery isn't any good and you can be left the hell alone to conduct your private business as you see fit.

*Note - desperate Nazi liberals will try to spin this as "homophobia" because they need to justify their anti-constitutional Nazi beliefs. However, it is not. I couldn't care less if someone is gay. What I do care about however is when they unconstitutionally force someone to do their bidding because they think being gay makes them special and entitled.

It's an agenda of reeducation

If you read my stance in the first of this thread I made comments about the same type of behavior .......................
My thoughts would be that pressed into servitude you would never get my best or at least the standard that I had a reputation for.

On second thought I have to recant that position and just state that I would have to be incarcerated or fined for not performing, period.
You see, I am under the impression that you are coming to me because I have a reputation as a baker(etc, etc, .........) and that I already have a perceived standard to my work.
Now for me to compromise MY STANDARDS because of being made to do something I don't want to do........................
Instead of giving an inferior product that could / would damage my reputation.
You see, while you others my not have standards, I have what is called personal integrity, I am comfortable with who I am and unwilling to change that even if that means facing societal repercussions.

I keep asking a question about this issue any of you have yet to address ........................

None of us liked to be forced to do anytihng, so why would a gay couple force a baker to bake a cake for a gay marriage in which they do not believe, forcing them to go against their own principles??

There are other bakers and none of this is life threatening, so no medication / medical shit, just plain ole logic and common sense questions??

I mean if all you are after in the end is declaring victory over your opponent then you fit the bill of the "Shit bag", I have been discussing this whole thread!!

 

[bripat9643]

Whatever happened to going into business to make money rather than turning customers away. Maybe owners figured that out and took those stupid signs down...

So if prostitute post a sign, sorry no blacks, is she's making bad business decision or she's simply a racist?

Yes.

If prostitution were legal, do you think the law should force white prostitutes to have sex with blacks even if they don't want to?

 

[bripat9643]

They did? Where was this hospital or ambulance service that refused to serve black people?

What about the deep south 100 years ago...

You have some evidence that Hospitals or ambulances refused to serve blacks?

I mean, people's worries weren't that they couldn't get a hospital, it's whether the local doctor would come out and lynch them.

You greatly over estimate the cruelty of White Southerners.

 

[bripat9643]

Most reasonable and prudent people do not let there political fanaticism influence their direct interactions with the public. As a pharmacist I would think as long as you met legal requirements you would be treated irregardless of skin color or race ..................

Also as one who dispenses medications for the betterment / continuation of life, ones political preferences would be of the least of your concerns ...............

You see it is only petty and vengeful people like you who would withhold medication from a sick person because of their beliefs ............. what a shit bag for even suggesting such a thing !!

Think about the deep south for a minute. There were plenty of petty and vengeful people.

What some people are calling for is the ability of private companies to do as they please, as if they don't have a responsibility.

The reality is that all business owners live in the real world and have to abide by laws which prevent them discriminating against people. Where this line is drawn is not an exact science, however no one should be denied anything based on what they do at home, who they're married to, how they were born etc etc.

Thanks for telling us what the law is. I think we already know that. Freedom is the ability to do as you please despite what other people think. You have made it clear that you are opposed to freedom.

For example, i don't have a problem with churches stopping people who aren't members of their church from getting married in their church. That's a membership issue.

Sure, you could claim a cafe could do membership to stop black people eating in their place, but it doesn't seem to happen much, if at all.

How does labelling the decision of some organization doing what it pleases "a membership issue" make it OK for them but not OK for other organizations? Why would it be OK for a cafe to have only white "members" but not only white customers?

 

[Iceweasel]

If prostitution were legal, do you think the law should force white prostitutes to have sex with blacks even if they don't want to?

Or women.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

If prostitution were legal, do you think the law should force white prostitutes to have sex with blacks even if they don't want to?

Talk about my special talent ..........................

I believe at the Bunny Ranch where prostitution is legal, the guest must chat with the hostess's before having any interaction.
Either party is free to deny consent and terminate the encounter at any time ................
This is the way adults do things .................

You are also making the assumption that a white woman who is a whore would have enough morals left to object to a customers status because of race ...............
Common sense tells you that at the point she is using her body to acquire money, the customers race will be the least of issues ................

I mean give me a break, you want to act like whores have any self respect ......................

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Until the fall of the USSR, virtually all leftists agreed that the Soviet Union was an example of socialism. The government was leftist. If another government is quite similar to the Soviet government, then why would you argue that it wasn't socialist?

 

[bripat9643]

If prostitution were legal, do you think the law should force white prostitutes to have sex with blacks even if they don't want to?

Talk about my special talent ..........................

I believe at the Bunny Ranch where prostitution is legal, the guest must chat with the hostess's before having any interaction.
Either party is free to deny consent and terminate the encounter at any time ................
This is the way adults do things .................

You are also making the assumption that a white woman who is a whore would have enough morals left to object to a customers status because of race ...............
Common sense tells you that at the point she is using her body to acquire money, the customers race will be the least of issues ................

I mean give me a break, you want to act like whores have any self respect ......................

You're kidding me. You're actually arguing that white women should be forced to have sex with black men even if they don't want to?

 

[bripat9643]

If prostitution were legal, do you think the law should force white prostitutes to have sex with blacks even if they don't want to?

Or women.

How about Ebola carriers?

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

You're kidding me. You're actually arguing that white women should be forced to have sex with black men even if they don't want to?

NO, Please quote where I made any such reference .............. now you are showing a lack of comprehension son ...............

You are trying to put words in my mouth I did not say, you can stop that shit now, before I unleash on your dumb ass .....................

 

[bripat9643]

Exactly! So then you agree that there is absolutely no reason for the left's obsession with forcing business to do what they want.

I also have always found it comical that liberals demand that business owners do everything that liberals want, instead of liberals just launching their own business and doing it themselves. If you're a liberal and you think McDonald's doesn't pay enough, then launch your own fast food restaurant and pay everyone $72,000. But you never see liberals do that because they are too lazy and too greedy (it's easier to mooch than it is to build a business).

I think you miss the point.

"Hey, that restaurant just spread E. Coli in their food!"

Rational Person- "Close that place down until they come up to compliance with health codes."

Rottweiler - "Let the market forces do their work and wait for that company to go out of business after a few babies die. We don't want no gummit telling us what to do. The Founding Fathers never wanted a Health Department! It's unconstitutional!"

This, kids, is Libertarianism run amok.

The minute someone dies from eating E. Coli infected food in a restaurant, that establishment is headed for bankruptcy. Only a liberal would be stupid enough to patronize the place after hearing such news.

 

[bripat9643]

You're kidding me. You're actually arguing that white women should be forced to have sex with black men even if they don't want to?

NO, Please quote where I made any such reference .............. now you are showing a lack of comprehension son ...............

You are trying to put words in my mouth I did not say, you can stop that shit now, before I unleash on your dumb ass .....................

Then just spit it out in plain English: should white prostitutes be forced to service black clients if they don't want to?

Feel free to unleash. You're already well on your way to making a fool of yourself.

 

[BlackSand]

I consider these folks who want to use aparthied type behavior in order to not have to deal with or accept people because they don't like their color, race, ethnicity, lifestyle, religion, etc. to be completely un-American. It's repulsive the joy you take in disaproving of and hating others, and it is truly un-American.

The true American spirit resides in FREEDOM ... Which includes the freedom of association.

Tolerance and the acceptance of others does not mean you have to neglect your own values and invite them to participate or diminish your desired course of action. Each of us has the freedom to engage life and opportunity as it suits our own needs, absent physical harm or the theft of another's property.

To hide behind false barriers established by the group think mentality is just another way our basic freedoms are eroded over . Nanny-State socialists don't know crap about what Freedom or American mean.

.

 

[Nosmo King]

I consider these folks who want to use aparthied type behavior in order to not have to deal with or accept people because they don't like their color, race, ethnicity, lifestyle, religion, etc. to be completely un-American. It's repulsive the joy you take in disaproving of and hating others, and it is truly un-American.

The true American spirit resides in FREEDOM ... Which includes the freedom of association.

Tolerance and the acceptance of others does not mean you have to neglect your own values and invite them to participate or diminish your desired course of action. Each of us has the freedom to engage life and opportunity as it suits our own needs, absent physical harm or the theft of another's property.

To hide behind false barriers established by the group think mentality is just another way our basic freedoms are eroded over . Nanny-State socialists don't know crap about what Freedom or American mean.

.

Discrimination =Freedom? Hate, fear and suspicion are American values? Creating a second class citizen because you think it's a matter of Liberty and Freedom makes sense?

What a pitiful attitude you have.

 

[P@triot]

Seriously? I've explained it like 20'x already, including the post you just responded to. I'm guessing you're struggling with some sort of reading comprehension condition?

You're assuming I'm going to bother actually reading that nonsense then.

Actually I think I know why you think Fascism is left wing. It has a lot to do with the Nazis being "National Socialists" in name only. They weren't Socialists at all, the Socialists were purged long before Hitler was taking over Europe and killing the Jews. Night of the long knives I think was the major purge of the gay and left wing element of his party.

fascism definition of fascism in Oxford dictionary American English US

"An authoritarian and nationalisticright-wing system of government and social organization."

American Heritage Dictionary Entry fascism

"
1. oftenFascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control."

Definition of ldquo fascism rdquo Collins English Dictionary

"

1. any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
2. any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc"

Fascism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

"often capitalized: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralizedautocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

fascism - definition in the American English Dictionary - Cambridge Dictionaries Online

"a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control of social and economic life, and extreme pride in country and race, with no expression of political disagreement allowed"

Fascism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"Fascism (/fæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radicalauthoritariannationalism[1][2] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. Influenced by national syndicalism, fascism originated inItaly during World War I, combining more typically right-wing positions with elements of left-wing politics,"

From Wikipedia, suggesting that it is mostly right wing, though at times has elements of left wing policies, which I won't dispute. However I will dispute that it is left wing.

"Although fascism is often placed on the far-right on the traditional left–right spectrum, a number of academics have said that the description is inadequate."

Which is probably true.

So, while some dictionaries describe it with extreme right wing, others don't. However they all say more or less the same thing.

So what does right and left wing mean?

right wing definition of right wing in Oxford dictionary American English US

"
The conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system.
[with reference to the National Assembly in France (1789–91), where the nobles sat to the president's right and the commons to the left]"

So it comes from the French National Assembly, extreme left and right weren't really there as a major force, so the terms far left and far right have developed since then, especially in the 20th Century when both Communism and Fascism came to play a major role in the world.

But the reality is that the definitions of what are far right and far left have come to be Fascism and Communist respectively.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they can't share aspects that might be considered left or right. Stalin's Communism wasn't Communism. Whatever it was, wasn't going to be considered by anyone as anything other than dictatorial, oppressive and not particularly looking out for equally or the people as might be considered in traditional leftist terms. But still we might call this far left.

Same with Fascism.

I'd guess that you're trying to make out that Stalin was extreme left, and Communist, therefore it was similar to Fascism, therefore Fascism is far left too. Which is really non-nonsensical.

Your definitions were all written by liberal English majors who don't know diddly squat about economics. The various isms refer to different economic systems, or they are utterly meaningless. Racism, dictatorship and nationalism are not peculiar to fascism nor are any of the other irrelevant criteria the authors of your definitions attempt to use to distinguish fascism from other economic systems.

Interesting project I'm working on (I'm part of the team). Our board decided that we would have speakers during 2015, every other month or so.

Anyway, we have some celebrities coming out to the desert to chat up the troops and provide a day of "food, fun, and fellowship".

The reason I bring it up is that we were turned down by some celebs who have confirmed open dates on their schedule (or rather their handlers--not sure the celeb ever heard the offer). Anyway, again, we have money to pay them...cash; they have an opening in their schedule. They just aren't interested.

I say, "Good for them." Nobody should be forced to do anything just because you want their services and can pay for it. If Bill Engvall signed a deal, however, and then said, "I really want to get away from corporate events. I'm not doing it." That's wrong.

Goods are a different matter. Businesses shouldn't have the right to refuse sale based on perceptions of lifestyle. If you've shop-lifted from them before...different story. IF there is nothing except the business owner's mis-conception of what you do in your spare time...that's not enough.

Sure they should. You have failed to post a single reason why they shouldn't, other than your indignation. You see, freedom means you get to do what you want with your property, even if someone else doesn't like it.

So if you're the only pharmacist in town, you can decide to not sell blood pressure medication to white folks or black folks because you don't like them...

And you wonder why you're correctly thought of as an idiot.

And why would he be the only pharmacist in town? Because no liberals are willing to step up and help society? They just want to mooch off of society while demanding everyone else step up?

Furthermore, even if he was the "only pharmacist in town", why couldn't the person in need just drive to another town?

This is the problem with liberals. They prefer absurd, make believe, what-if, tear-jerking scenario's over reality. Either drive to another town or use the pharmacists poor decision as a business opportunity. That's all a successful business is really - finding a need and filling it (any successful entrepreneur will tell you that). So now that your far-fetched tear-jerker has been covered, what else do you have for me? Are you ready to admit that people should be free to live their lives (even if that means living as bigots) or do you want to present some more far-fetched scenarios for me to cover?

So I guess if a hospital doesn't want black patients...they can do that? The patients should suck it up and open their own hospital? If the ambulance doesn't want to pick up whites...they should suck it up and limp to the next town? If the suspected Ebola patient isn't of a preferable color to be admitted..are you okay with them catching the local bus..or maybe they have smallpox???

The courts ruled on this long ago. Only bigoted idiots like you and brifart see the need to be able to discriminate.

So now believing in liberty makes one a "bigot"? Man are you the poster child for the modern day communist. Control everything and everyone, discredit anyone who refuses to agree with you using lies and propaganda.

We already covered your childish tear-jerking absurd scenarios but I guess I'll do it again. If a hospital "doesn't want black patients" (because, you know, it's so likely that a business made up of several thousand people are all going to be racist), then wonderful, caring, selfless, altruistic people like you can open your own hospital and make a fortune catering to the needs of "all of those black people".

As far as the ambulance my dear, well EMT's are government employees. They can't discriminate since the salaries are paid by the taxes of ALL people. Oops... Looks like someone, in their desperation to defend an absurd and indefensible position, tried to stretch way too far! Nobody has ever tried to make the case that the government should be able to decide for themselves who to serve and who not to because the government is a representative of the people - all people.

Lastly, as far as your equally absurd "the courts ruled on this years ago" position, I have three things to say. First of all, the courts don't make law. Being a liberal, you don't realize that so I'll cut you some slack here. But laws are made by the legislative branch while the courts operate under the judicial branch. Oops. Second, anything written into law or "ruled on" in a court can be changed later. That's the beauty of our system. No matter how bad liberals muck up America, we can always fix it if we work hard enough and get the right people elected. Third and finally, the U.S. Constitution ruled centuries ago (not years ago - centuries ago), that I have a right to keep & bear arms. But that doesn't stop idiot liberals from not only trying to change it, but actually breaking the law by banning them in some places in America (Chicago, NY, Washington D.C., etc) at some point or another. It's funny how conservatives have to battle all day, every day for our basic constitutional rights but you get frustrated having to defend a "court ruling" (remembering again, of course, that the courts cannot make law) just a couple of times. It's a good thing you're not a conservative - you clearly wouldn't be able to last having to constantly defend your rights from irrational liberals!

So this is now the second time that your argument has been thoroughly shredded. Do you have anything else for me?

 

[frigidweirdo]

They did? Where was this hospital or ambulance service that refused to serve black people?

What about the deep south 100 years ago...

You have some evidence that Hospitals or ambulances refused to serve blacks?

I mean, people's worries weren't that they couldn't get a hospital, it's whether the local doctor would come out and lynch them.

You greatly over estimate the cruelty of White Southerners.

Do I need evidence? It's not the point here.

The point is that either you have a society where business owners, including hospitals, can decide who they want to serve based on their own views and beliefs and prejudices, or you have a society where people who are in the public domain, and make a business that is a public business, have to follow a standard which does not discriminate against people.

Which is it?

Do I over estimate the cruelty of White Southerners?

Lynching of Laura and L.D. Nelson - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Laura was taken from her police cell, dragged to a bridge, raped then hung. If ISIS did this you'd say what?

Lynching of Jesse Washington - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

"There was a celebratory atmosphere at the event, and many children attended during their lunch hour. Members of the mob castrated Washington, cut off his fingers, and hung him over a bonfire. He was repeatedly lowered and raised over the fire for about two hours. After the fire was extinguished, his charred torso was dragged through the town and parts of his body were sold as souvenirs."

Which part, exactly, have I over estimated?

 

[bripat9643]

I consider these folks who want to use aparthied type behavior in order to not have to deal with or accept people because they don't like their color, race, ethnicity, lifestyle, religion, etc. to be completely un-American. It's repulsive the joy you take in disaproving of and hating others, and it is truly un-American.

The true American spirit resides in FREEDOM ... Which includes the freedom of association.

Tolerance and the acceptance of others does not mean you have to neglect your own values and invite them to participate or diminish your desired course of action. Each of us has the freedom to engage life and opportunity as it suits our own needs, absent physical harm or the theft of another's property.

To hide behind false barriers established by the group think mentality is just another way our basic freedoms are eroded over . Nanny-State socialists don't know crap about what Freedom or American mean.

.

Discrimination =Freedom? Hate, fear and suspicion are American values? Creating a second class citizen because you think it's a matter of Liberty and Freedom makes sense?

What a pitiful attitude you have.

Freedom includes the freedom to discriminate. Freedom doesn't guarantee that everyone will always behave in exemplar fashion. It includes the right to behave badly, so long as you don't violate anyone's rights. No one has a right to be served by any particular person or establishment.